KILL BILL

[kamome]

The use of Japanese language was too gratuitous and disappointing. Sitting in a Tokyo movie theater surrounded by Japanese people listening to Uma Thurman and Lucy Liu struggling through their Japanese lines was an embarrassing moment for me.

I can understand Uma struggling through Japanese as her character is not suppose to be great in the language anyway, however I heard from various people that Lucy did a wonderful job speaking Japanese. I think I even read where Sonny Chiba said she did a fine job.

Oh, you heard from some people that Lucy did a wonderful, fine job? Let me tell you, as someone who speaks Japanese fluently, that she did not do a wonderful, fine job. It was painful to my ears and the ears of all the Japanese sitting in the audience with me. Of course, Sonny Chiba would say something positive. They were colleagues working on the same film, with an obligation to promote it. He's not going to publically say, "Her Japanese sucked."

And why would two people from America be speaking Japanese to each other anyway?

The same reason to Japanese people from Japan would be speaking English? Where in Kill Bill did you forget that this is a film? [/quote]

Uh, this makes no sense at all. Japanese people rarely speak English to each other, even if they are fluent in English. It wouldn't make sense for them to do so because it wouldn't feel natural. The same would apply to two Americans who were fluent in other languages; it just wouldn't feel natural.

I'll leave the wire action argument to Caustic Saint, who made a very convincing case for why the wire action made sense for Crouching Tiger and Matrix, but didn't make sense for Kill Bill.

[Andocrates]

Well, I did point the bad Japanese myself, but now you're just being mean to make a point. At least they spoke in Japanese, even if it was bad, instead of cheesing out and speaking in english.

I can remember some really bad english attempts from Kitano Takeshi, Jet Li, and Jackie Chan. My first thought was always, wow that Chinese guy learned some English for the role, he's cool.

The Japanese sneer in contempt that anyone dare to speak their precious language like it's so freaking great. It's a language, most of it stolen from other languages.

[BlazeAlpha]

An odd comment to makes, seeing how the animation was done by Production I.G., the same company that did Ghost in the Shell.

Not a odd comment, just a different expectation. Yes it was done by Production I.G, however they used a different anime style. I'm sure you are aware that Production I.G DOES use different anime styles, however many would argue that the Ghost In The Shell style is their most impressive style. I was simply looking for one thing and got something less impressive. Matter of opinion perhaps.

There's a big difference between how it's used in CTHD, the Matrix films and Kill Bill. In CTHD is was used to depict the "magical" king-fu style, which is not based in reality at all. Similarly with the Matrix movies, the world of the Matrix is not real, and therefore not bound by the rules of our reality. Funny that you discount both of those yet defend Kill Bill as being set in its own little world that Quentin created, existing outside our own.

There is NO difference. I didn't discount CTHD or The Matrix's wire work, but was rather reponding to what kamome said. He calls Kill Bill's wirework "gratuitous and over-the-top compared to the others". Isn't that the case of the pot calling the kettle black? How can someone conclude that Kill Bill's wirework as being more over the top than CTHD or The Matrix? That's ridiculous. When you have characters flying through bamboo trees and flying across water, NO wire work in Kill Bill is more OVER THE TOP than that. I'm not faulting CTHD for that because I understand what that film is about and the world it takes place in. Same with the Matrix. Kill Bill, just like Matrix and CTHD doesn't exist in the REAL WORLD so logically I don't buy that Kill Bill wirework more over the top.

The thing that's become obvious to me is that you've got a serious woody for Shaw Brothers films, as evidenced by comments like "The opening Shaw Brothers "Shaw Scope" tribute logo was excellent! I never thought I would see the day where I would see that at the beginning of a film in an American theater Nearly brought me to tears. A+"

And there's nothing wrong with that.

Why even mention it in the first place if there is NOTHING wrong with that?

Nearly every fan comment I've read from people who loved Kill Bill talks about how it's an "homage/tribute/whathaveyou" to the Shaws and others. To those who aren't extensively familiar with their work, Kill Bill comes across as a ripoff, not a tribute. Where does the line get drawn?

To those who aren't estensively familiar (mainstream) with their work as you say, how would they logically know what's a ripoff if they aren't familiar with their work in the first place. There is no line to be drawn. The mainstream viewers just need to educate themselves on the genre of martial art films.

Also, so what if some people haven't seen their movies?

That's their loss. My point is if someone (mainstream) haven't seen one Shaw Brothers film or Baby Cart Samurai film, etc and yet has the gall to be blabbling on like he or she is all of sudden some expert of the genre needs to get out of my face with that nonsense.

Not everybody is into older kung-fu flims, and a current release shouldn't have a "required viewing" list to go through before seeing it. It's a movie, not a university course with prerequisites.

In my opinion if someone has NEVER seen a Shaw Brothers film, they don't belong in a theatre seeing Kill Bill to begin with. What people seem to forget is Kill Bill wasn't made for the mainstream audience]It seems that Quentin went a bit too far with this and is into full-on "fan service" mode with Kill Bill. His movie should be able to stand on its own. If it can't do that, he's just a hack.[/quote]

I'm sure most mainstreamers feel that way. Too bad. That "stand on it's own" garbage is only there for purpose of mainstreamers continuing in the bliss of ignorance. You either get it or you don't. If mainstreamers can't handle that then stick with Charlie's Angels.

[BlazeAlpha]

Oh, you heard from some people that Lucy did a wonderful, fine job? Let me tell you, as someone who speaks Japanese fluently, that she did not do a wonderful, fine job. It was painful to my ears and the ears of all the Japanese sitting in the audience with me.

So we have a case of conflicting opinions then. You say she didn't do a great job, other Japanese people say she did. Which is it?

Of course, Sonny Chiba would say something positive. They were colleagues working on the same film, with an obligation to promote it. He's not going to publically say, "Her Japanese sucked."

Okay, i'll buy that.

Uh, this makes no sense at all. Japanese people rarely speak English to each other, even if they are fluent in English.

What if they were Japanese American?

It wouldn't make sense for them to do so because it wouldn't feel natural. The same would apply to two Americans who were fluent in other languages]

Point taken.

I'll leave the wire action argument to Caustic Saint, who made a very convincing case for why the wire action made sense for Crouching Tiger and Matrix, but didn't make sense for Kill Bill.

Actually he didn't. Tarantino has stated many times in interviews and the like that Kill Bill doesn't exist in the real world just like CTHD or The Matrix so what case did he really make? Also the wirework in Kill Bill purely based off the wire work in Shaw Brothers films; so in reality for someone to fault the wirework in Kill Bill would be also faulting that used in many Shaw Brothers films. To me that's far from a convincing case.

[BlazeAlpha]

Well, I did point the bad Japanese myself, but now you're just being mean to make a point. At least they spoke in Japanese, even if it was bad, instead of cheesing out and speaking in english.

I can remember some really bad english attempts from Kitano Takeshi, Jet Li, and Jackie Chan. My first thought was always, wow that Chinese guy learned some English for the role, he's cool.

The Japanese sneer in contempt that anyone dare to speak their precious language like it's so freaking great. It's a language, most of it stolen from other languages.

Couldn't agree more! clap, clap, clap!!!!!

[Caustic Saint]

There's a big difference between how it's used in CTHD, the Matrix films and Kill Bill. In CTHD is was used to depict the "magical" king-fu style, which is not based in reality at all. Similarly with the Matrix movies, the world of the Matrix is not real, and therefore not bound by the rules of our reality. Funny that you discount both of those yet defend Kill Bill as being set in its own little world that Quentin created, existing outside our own.

There is NO difference. I didn't discount CTHD or The Matrix's wire work, but was rather reponding to what kamome said. He calls Kill Bill's wirework "gratuitous and over-the-top compared to the others". Isn't that the case of the pot calling the kettle black? How can someone conclude that Kill Bill's wirework as being more over the top than CTHD or The Matrix? That's ridiculous. When you have characters flying through bamboo trees and flying across water, NO wire work in Kill Bill is more OVER THE TOP than that. I'm not faulting CTHD for that because I understand what that film is about and the world it takes place in. Same with the Matrix. Kill Bill, just like Matrix and CTHD doesn't exist in the REAL WORLD so logically I don't buy that Kill Bill wirework more over the top.

The difference between CTHD/The Matrix and Kill Bill is that in the first two it's used as an element of the story - there is a reason for its being there. In Kill Bill it's there because Quentin likes it. The only elements of Kill Bill that don't exist in the real world are the wire work and the blood spouts. Everything else is entirely plausible, which makes those two seem out of place.

[quote]The mainstream viewers just need to educate themselves on the genre of martial art films.

In my opinion if someone has NEVER seen a Shaw Brothers film, they don't belong in a theatre seeing Kill Bill to begin with. What people seem to forget is Kill Bill wasn't made for the mainstream audience]
Ah, the battle cry of the film snob - though how someone can be snobbish about one of Quentin's flicks is beyond me. (Go ahead, take that line and run with it.) "You're just not smart/cool/informed/worthy/whatever enough to enjoy this movie." "Educate yourself." "You don't belong in the theater." "You should only see [crap] like Charlie's Angels." "You just don't get it."

Bull. Shit. It's a major studio release and it is not targeted at just film geeks. If that were the case it'd go direct to video for the few thousand people in that audience.

You're just like the die-hard Matrix fans who couldn't (wouldn't) admit that Reloaded fell far short of the first movie. They just kept repeating, "if you didn't like it, it's because you're too stupid to understand it." You're doing the same thing but with a different mantra. Only I expect you see yourself as different from them since this time it's "your" movie in question. Every genre, from action to sci-fi to Merchant Ivory movies, has people like you. And the smaller the fanbase, the more rabid the fans.

I'm not saying you're wrong for liking Kill Bill as much as you do. Clearly, we have a difference of opinion about the film and it's "value." If everybody liked the same movies there'd be no point in having multi-screen cineplexes, since everyone would be seeing the same movie. What I take issue with is your attitude about others' feelings on the movie, for the reasons I've already stated.


(PS. You may want to change your avatar. Do you really want people associating you with an ugly, fat ass?)

[BlazeAlpha]

The difference between CTHD/The Matrix and Kill Bill is that in the first two it's used as an element of the story - there is a reason for its being there. In Kill Bill it's there because Quentin likes it.

No, it's in there because it's inspired by Shaw Brothers films. In the SB films, wirework was used for the aspect of the supernatural. In the SB world Martial artists had the ability to increase their skill to supernatural levels, meaning they could jump high into trees, on roofs, scale walls, etc. Quentin took that aspect and brought it into the Kill Bill world. You can't get that through a mainstreamers's skull, because in their mind wirework started with CTHD and The Matrix. God forbid that wirework was around in the 70's.

The only elements of Kill Bill that don't exist in the real world are the wire work and the blood spouts. Everything else is entirely plausible, which makes those two seem out of place.

They let people carry samurai swords on planes in the real world? Funny how nobody in O-Ren's Yakuza gang uses a gun. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the yakuza in real life own guns. I guess in real life the Yakuza run around in kato masks? In real life if you are surrounded by over 40 people with swords, your ass is dead no matter who you are. I guess in real life if someone gets their arm hacked and lose the amount of blood that Sofie Fatale loss, they still live huh? When Uma is flying into Tokyo, you can see a string on the tail of the plane, making it obvious that it's a toy model plane. I guess that's the same planes we fly on in real life huh? There is plenty of stuff in Kill Bill NOT plausible in real life, so I'm wondering what film you saw?

Ah, the battle cry of the film snob - though how someone can be snobbish about one of Quentin's flicks is beyond me. (Go ahead, take that line and run with it.) "You're just not smart/cool/informed/worthy/whatever enough to enjoy this movie." "Educate yourself." "You don't belong in the theater." "You should only see [crap] like Charlie's Angels." "You just don't get it."

Yawn.

Bull. Shit. It's a major studio release and it is not targeted at just film geeks. If that were the case it'd go direct to video for the few thousand people in that audience.

The film was funded by a major studio, but the film ITSELF is not mainstream film. Whenever you have a rated "R" or nearly a NC17 slapped on a film, it's ONLY for a certain audience. This has been the case with every explotation film. Plus Quentin already stated in past interviews that he made Kill Bill for the geeks like himself. He was allowed to make a geek film like "Kill Bill", because everyone at Miramax knows Quentin put them on the map in the first place.

You're just like the die-hard Matrix fans who couldn't (wouldn't) admit that Reloaded fell far short of the first movie.

Ha Ha ha, Kill Bill is critically acclaimed so what are you talking about? I debate points in Kill Bill because I CHOOSE to, not because I have to. If I never said another word about Kill Bill it's still a critically acclaimed film. Matrix fans on the other hand, debate points about Reloaded and now the disappointment that is Revolutions, because they HAVE to. The same can be said with the Star Wars fans.

Every genre, from action to sci-fi to Merchant Ivory movies, has people like you.

Perhaps and every theatre has people like you, looking for the typical, tired, mainstream film to babble about.

I'm not saying you're wrong for liking Kill Bill as much as you do. Clearly, we have a difference of opinion about the film and it's "value." If everybody liked the same movies there'd be no point in having multi-screen cineplexes, since everyone would be seeing the same movie.

Point taken.

What I take issue with is your attitude about others' feelings on the movie, for the reasons I've already stated.

What I take issue with is when people form opinions about a film not based in logic. I have no problem with people hating Kill Bill, just have some logical points to support why you hate it. The "wirework" argument is not a logical point. It's just someone being uninformed.

(PS. You may want to change your avatar. Do you really want people associating you with an ugly, fat ass?)

Ha, Ha, Ha, opinions vary I guess. I like fat brazilain asses. I guess on this board people like Japanese asses and that's cool. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder I suppose.

[GargoyleTS]

Juuuuust to but-in here:

Firstly, since when does "critical acclaim" mean a movie is good to everyone who sees it?

Secondly, the wire-work was out-of place. It felt like a poor attempt at Jackie Chan-esque slip-work. There was nothing to really establish a "mystical" force existed in any of these characters, or that they were Uber-martial artists. They were portrayed as a group of assassins, but there was nothing to establish any sort of justification for what they were capable of. Plus she was doing all this how long after coming out of a 4 year coma? My only gripe with this movie was the wire-work. Everything else was very cool and was internally consistent (ok, the anime in the kiddle thing was sorta crappy, but that's my opinion too). The Yakuza with swords? Yeah, HER yakuza used swords. I have no idea what the other clans (or whatever one calls them) used since they weren't shown. Besides, which is more intimidating: 7 inches of black metal clutched in the fist of a 5'4" guy in a business suit, or 3 and a half feet of gleaming steel held in the hand of guy all in black wearing a mask?

[kamome]

Regarding wirework: you are all alone on this one, Blaze.

Your argument is: Kill Bill does not depict the real world, so wire action makes sense. And because the Shaw Brothers had it in their films. But QT could have incorporated the wirework in a way that both honored the Shaw Brothers but also made sense for the characters. He only succeeded in paying homage to other filmmakers, but failed to make it work for the story.

Regarding the use of Japanese:

At least they spoke in Japanese, even if it was bad, instead of cheesing out and speaking in english.

I can remember some really bad english attempts from Kitano Takeshi, Jet Li, and Jackie Chan. My first thought was always, wow that Chinese guy learned some English for the role, he's cool.

But it made sense for Jet Li, et. al., to be speaking English in that role, right? Maybe because he was speaking with other American characters who didn't understand Chinese. In Kill Bill, you have two Americans speaking Japanese to each other. Badly. That makes no sense to me and it made no sense for the story. Hence my use of the word "gratuitous".

Blaze: who are these "other Japanese" people who praised Lucy's Japanese? Are you only talking about Sonny Chiba? You already conceded that his praise is meaningless because he has an incentive to promote the movie.

And if you're talking about some other Japanese people, let me open your eyes. If you had spent one second in Japan, you would know that such praise is BS. Don't listen to it. Japanese people would even praise your Japanese if you managed to mumble a word or two of a greeting.

Stop talking out your ass. And definitely stop trying to portray yourself as some kind of "in the know" movie critic in contrast to the "mainstream". It gives your arguments no additional credibility, and frankly, is an insulting indictment of the others in this thread.

[BlazeAlpha]

Juuuuust to but-in here: Firstly, since when does "critical acclaim" mean a movie is good to everyone who sees it?

No film is going to be 100% loved by everyone. As great a film as "The Godfather" was, there were people who don't like it. Critical acclaim is NOT everyone liking a film, but rather a majority of people liking a film.

Secondly, the wire-work was out-of place. It felt like a poor attempt at Jackie Chan-esque slip-work. There was nothing to really establish a "mystical" force existed in any of these characters, or that they were Uber-martial artists.

There was only wirework used in the "Showdown At House Of Blue Leaves" chapter, which is the last 1/4 of the film. That sure is a lot of wirework. The ONLY characters that used wirework were Uma's character Black Mamba, GoGo Yubari, and Johnny Mo. You guys act like every character in Kill Bill used wirework. Your complain is there is no backstory to explain why Johnny Mo, GoGo, or Black Mamba used wirework. From what we know, Black Mamba, Uma's character is trained by Pak Mei which will be told in Vol.2. So that leaves GoGo and Johnny Mo. Both character's backstory wasn't told so we really don't know, however we also can't DISCOUNT that they shouldn't be using wirework.

They were portrayed as a group of assassins, but there was nothing to establish any sort of justification for what they were capable of.

You seem to forget that ONLY Uma's character in the DIVAS was using any sort of wirework. Vernita Green, O-Ren, Elle Driver, etc, DIDN'T use any wirework.

Plus she was doing all this how long after coming out of a 4 year coma?

Uma was trained by Pak Mei years before she was even put into the coma. Mainstreamers won't know this until Vol.2.

My only gripe with this movie was the wire-work.

That's such a little thing to gripe about. I thought the wirework was handled very well except the part were Johnny Mo leaps up to the second floor of Japanese club chasing after Black Mamba. Other than that the wirework was spot on.

Everything else was very cool and was internally consistent (ok, the anime in the kiddle thing was sorta crappy, but that's my opinion too). The Yakuza with swords? Yeah, HER yakuza used swords. I have no idea what the other clans (or whatever one calls them) used since they weren't shown.

I have no problem with O-Ren's Yakuza using swords or anything else that conflicts with logic in the real world. The point I was making is ALL that stuff just added to the film NOT existing in the real world so why should anyone be complaining about a trival thing like wirework?

Besides, which is more intimidating: 7 inches of black metal clutched in the fist of a 5'4" guy in a business suit, or 3 and a half feet of gleaming steel held in the hand of guy all in black wearing a mask?

Once again I have no problems with any of that stuff. I just scratch my head at people's logic sometimes.

[BlazeAlpha]

Regarding wirework: you are all alone on this one, Blaze.

ONLY on the "FuckedGaijin" board.

Your argument is: Kill Bill does not depict the real world, so wire action makes sense. And because the Shaw Brothers had it in their films.

Exactly and it's spot on.

But QT could have incorporated the wirework in a way that both honored the Shaw Brothers but also made sense for the characters.

In other words, Quentin didn't incorporate the wirework the way YOU wanted it so from that angle it doesn't make sense. Ok, whatever.

He only succeeded in paying homage to other filmmakers, but failed to make it work for the story.

Spoken like a true mainstreamer.

Blaze: And if you're talking about some other Japanese people, let me open your eyes. If you had spent one second in Japan, you would know that such praise is BS. Don't listen to it. Japanese people would even praise your Japanese if you managed to mumble a word or two of a greeting.

Ok, I'll buy that. Basically I should NOT listen to praise from Japanese people? The Japanese people I talk to on other boards are all feeding me bullshit? Interesting to say the least.

Stop talking out your ass.

I give that insult 5 out of 10. I'm disappointed. I expected better and heard better. Either come strong or don't come at all.

And definitely stop trying to portray yourself as some kind of "in the know" movie critic in contrast to the "mainstream". It gives your arguments no additional credibility, and frankly, is an insulting indictment of the others in this thread.

Please, I'm just expressing my opinion. I couldn't care less about being a movie critic. Don't want to be. I'm simply a movie geek of various genres of film and that alone outcasts me and many others from the mainstream. The only insulting indictment is mainstreamers on this board and other boards who need everything in a film force feed to them.

[Caustic Saint]

[kenchan]

ok i'm jumping in a bit late in this topic, but i still wanted to give my 2 cents.

I liked the Japanese dialogue from both Uma and Lucy. For some reason I was just proud that these well known figures are trying to speak, even though the pronounciation was off in a lot of places. Because I felt like those 2 tried harder to pronounce it right, I was proud. But compared to other movies like Rising Sun and Gung Ho from back in the day...they did a better job.

I cannot wait for Volume 2. I was told that the Japanese Version was even more bloody? Is that true? I've only watched it in the US.

Also, I don't know where most people watched this film, but when Sonny Chiba's name came up in the opening credits, there was an uproar of cheers.

[kamome]

ok i'm jumping in a bit late in this topic, but i still wanted to give my 2 cents.

I liked the Japanese dialogue from both Uma and Lucy. For some reason I was just proud that these well known figures are trying to speak, even though the pronounciation was off in a lot of places. Because I felt like those 2 tried harder to pronounce it right, I was proud. But compared to other movies like Rising Sun and Gung Ho from back in the day...they did a better job.

I cannot wait for Volume 2. I was told that the Japanese Version was even more bloody? Is that true? I've only watched it in the US.

Also, I don't know where most people watched this film, but when Sonny Chiba's name came up in the opening credits, there was an uproar of cheers.

I can understand that you, a Japanese American, are proud to see those two actresses trying to speak Japanese. But I think you would also agree that it didn't make sense for the characters to be speaking Japanese in most of the scenes where it occurs (although the scene where Uma speaks to Sonny Chiba kind of resembles the conversations I have with Japanese people who have some conversational English ability--alot of back and forth in each other's language).

Speaking of cheers for Sonny Chiba--in Japanese theaters, you'll never hear someone cheering in a movie theater for anything. I thought about cheering during the opening credits of Revolutions, but then remembered I wasn't sitting at the Fox theater in Westwood, Los Angeles.

[Caustic Saint]

Speaking of cheers for Sonny Chiba--in Japanese theaters, you'll never hear someone cheering in a movie theater for anything. I thought about cheering during the opening credits of Revolutions, but then remembered I wasn't sitting at the Fox theater in Westwood, Los Angeles.

I wonder if this is a typically Asian thing. People in theaters in Korea are deathly quiet. It makes it easier for me to enjoy the movie as people aren't talking or being rude, but I always wonder if the other people are enjoying the movie at all. They never make a sound, never clap, hardly ever laugh... They could be listening to a dull universtiy lecture for how much they respond to what's on the screen.

The only time I've seen a crowd react was at the American remake of "The Ring." This girl sitting next to me freaked the fuck out when they did the quick flash of the first dead girl, and spent most of the rest of the movie hiding in her coat and peeking out occasionally. Her boyfriend thought her reactions were funny (as did I) and kept trying to get her to look at the screen to see more distubing stuff. Cool guy.


On a side note, I wouldn't concern yourself too much with Blaze's postings here. He joined FG just to post in this topic. (First post on the day he joined and this is the only topic he's posted in.) Once the Kill Bill hype fades (What's that? It already has?) he'll be gone. A google search for "kill bill forum japan" gives FG as the 18th link. I'm guessing he came here from there - or some similar googling.

[Ptyx]

I wonder if this is a typically Asian thing. People in theaters in Korea are deathly quiet. It makes it easier for me to enjoy the movie as people aren't talking or being rude, but I always wonder if the other people are enjoying the movie at all.

In France too, people don't cheer at the screen. But they laugh or show disgust at gruesome scenes etc...
It's quiet weird when you go see a movie ine the US, it's so loud ! people clapping their hands and munching popcorns like crazy. It does not feel as a "regular" theatre for us frenchies.

[kamome]

On a side note, I wouldn't concern yourself too much with Blaze's postings here. He joined FG just to post in this topic. (First post on the day he joined and this is the only topic he's posted in.) Once the Kill Bill hype fades (What's that? It already has?) he'll be gone. A google search for "kill bill forum japan" gives FG as the 18th link. I'm guessing he came here from there - or some similar googling.

What? Me concerned about that guy?

I just like to call somebody out every now and then when they act like complete 'tards. By the way, Caustic, your posts on this topic (and all the others) have been great.

[Caustic Saint]

By the way, Caustic, your posts on this topic (and all the others) have been great.

Muchos thankyous.

Now, where's that "bowing" smiley icon?

[kenchan]

I can understand that you, a Japanese American, are proud to see those two actresses trying to speak Japanese. But I think you would also agree that it didn't make sense for the characters to be speaking Japanese in most of the scenes where it occurs (although the scene where Uma speaks to Sonny Chiba kind of resembles the conversations I have with Japanese people who have some conversational English ability--alot of back and forth in each other's language).

Speaking of cheers for Sonny Chiba--in Japanese theaters, you'll never hear someone cheering in a movie theater for anything. I thought about cheering during the opening credits of Revolutions, but then remembered I wasn't sitting at the Fox theater in Westwood, Los Angeles.

Yeah, I totally agree.... whenever you mix languages in movies, its usually always awkward. Especially that scene where Oren Ishii announced that she will now speak in English to the council...wtf...why announce it, its all real unnatural to begin with.

Sometimes I like to mix myself, but I can only do that with a select few. And then the conversation becomes real exclusive.

I like the atmosphere of people cheering, it helps with the whole experience, I don't like people munchin on popcorn next to me, but I like people clapping and stuff. When I watched a movie in Japan it felt so heartless...

[Caustic Saint]

I like the atmosphere of people cheering, it helps with the whole experience, I don't like people munchin on popcorn next to me, but I like people clapping and stuff. When I watched a movie in Japan it felt so heartless...

Dead-on right, Kenchan.

Speaking of which, did anybody see the first Matrix movie in Japan? How could you not cheer during the rooftop scene when Trinity puts her gun to the agent's head and says, "Dodge this" ? Lines like that are meant to get a reaction from the crowd. I saw that one once on a military base in Seoul (great reactions) and twice in Korean theaters. Very different experiences. In the Korean theaters my friends and I were totally into it and everybody around us seemed like they were in a coma.

Don't people know they're supposed to enjoy movies? Or could it have something to do with them having to read subtitles the whole time?

[kamome]

I had two weird experiences in Japanese theaters:

1) Watching some comedy (can't remember the name) and being the only one in the entire place to laugh out loud. Nobody laughs in Japanese movie theaters! I concede that some of the humor might be lost in the translation (no intended reference to the movie of the same title).

2) Watching the brain-eating scene in the second Hannibal Lecter movie. I recall being the only person to react out loud in disgust. Nobody seemed moved by it at all. Were we watching the same movie???

[BlazeAlpha]

Odd how you paint other people with your magic "mainstreamer" brush over and over again. Based on what, exactly? Our opinions on this one movie? Comments myself and others have made about old-school kung-fu movies? How many movies have been named in this topic, four? (Kill Bill, CTHD, Matrix and Charlie's Angels [which everybody seems to agree was lame]

The first thing you need to understand is how I define "mainstreamer". I define a mainstreamer as someone who is not a geek of a particular genre of film and needs a film in that genre to "stand on it's own" or translation "be force feed" for them to enjoy it. When someone says "not everyone's into old school kung fu movies", that tells me that they are NOT a geek of the Martial art film genre and strongly suggests that they are a mainstreamer. Shaw Brothers is almost like the bible of the MA genre so if you are a geek of the genre, you've seen a SB film. Also when someone throws out some nonsense about Kill Bill's wirework being over the top in comparison to CTHD and The Matrix when A) Kill Bill on had wirework in 3 to 4 shots of the whole film and B) isn't set in the real world just like CTHD and The Matrix... that screams mainstream to me.

I already explained that the wirework in Kill Bill was inspired by Shaw Brothers. The mainstreamers say there is nothing in Kill Bill that suggests certain characters had supernatural skill, however in a lot of Shaw Brothers films and old martial arts films in general there were many cases where characters didn't get backstorys on where their supernatural skill came from. Hell, even in CTHD they don't explain how the Wudang warriors were able to fly. Did I bitch in either case? No, because I understood that the worlds in SB films and CTHD are not real and logic could be bent. Why would it be any different for Kill Bill? A film Tarantino said from the get go wasn't based in the real world. This is the logic I don't get with mainstreamers.

The fact that you mention having similar discussions on other boards indicates that you enjoy your (self-applied) "outsider" label.

Similar discussions I've had on other boards have been more interesting and thought provoking than this board. This has nothing to do with enjoying a "outsider" label, but rather discussion of a film. When I get tired of discussing Kill Bill, i'll move onto another topic. It's as simple as that.

[jingai]

[Caustic Saint]

[jingai]

Linking is unrelated to copyright issues- just ask google image search.
I didn't know there were scripts around. Just a few lines is good enough for me... I found plenty of links to the original script, but (not surprisingly) there isn't any Japanese in it. Didn't think Tarantino wrote in Japanese, did you?

There are gems like:

You fucking bitch! You shot me in
my breast! They're not fully
developed yet, you fucking asshole!
Now I'm always gonna have a dimple!

and

BOSS TANAKA (JAPANESE)
I speak, Mistress Ishii,....of the
perversion done to this council,
which I love more than my own
children,...by making a half
Chinese American its leader.

[Caustic Saint]

Linking is unrelated to copyright issues- just ask google image search.

Better to just ask Ultra. He kills links to any copyrighted material.

Linking = facilitation of copyright violations, which could mean trouble for him.

Keep FG safe and in place - don't link to anything copyrighted by anybody other than yourself.

(This message brought to you by FGs for FG.)

[bejiita]

Better to just ask Ultra. He kills links to any copyrighted material.

Linking = facilitation of copyright violations, which could mean trouble for him.

Naw, Ultra can do what he wants because FG is his site. We're here subject to his good graces only. *Humbly Kowtows*

Linking to an unlicensed copyrighted work may constitute contributory infringement. If the site owns/licenses the copyrighted work, then it depend's on the site's TOS. For example:

TCN welcomes links to this site. You may establish a hypertext link to this site, provided that the link does not state or imply any sponsorship or endorsement of your site by TCN. You may not use on your site any trademarks, service marks or copyrighted materials appearing on the TCN site, including but not limited to any logos or characters, without the express written consent of the owner of the mark or right. You may not frame or otherwise incorporate into another web site any of the content or other materials on the TCN site without prior written consent.

As for Google getting away with links to unauthorized copyrighted works, a defense exists for automated database caching servers which is what Google is.

[Taro Toporific]

Tarantino to lord over Cannes film festivalFeb 16
PARIS (AFP) - Quentin Tarantino's career arc, it seems, is now complete.
From his start as a movie-obsessed video store clerk to a rebellious novice director...His latest two-part opus, "Kill Bill", shows his sense of homage, innovation and, above all, stylized violence, have not changed, but rather that the film world has caught up and elevated his brand of movie-making....
It was only 10 years ago that he walked off with Cannes' top prize, the Palme d'Or, for "Pulp Fiction".
The fact that this time he will be back at the red-carpet event on the French Riviera as jury president -- an honour announced Friday -- underscores his transformation and the one he has wrought on filmmakers who followed him.

[Taro Toporific]

weird experiences in Japanese theaters

My train station is playing the Kill Bill Vol. 2 trailer on the big plasma screen. However, I see here that "The Love Story" is not the actual theme]Naplam News[/url]

Kill Bill Vol. 2 is being marketed in Japan under the name "Kill Bill Vol. 2: The Love Story" and the tagline "Kill is Love." (see Japanese vers. of KB site for trailers)

[Caustic Saint]

[quote="Taro Toporific"]My train station is playing the Kill Bill Vol. 2 trailer on the big plasma screen. However, I see here that "The Love Story" is not the actual theme]
I dunno what the pitch in the real world is, but they're probably not saying how much the last chapter of vol. 2 gets bogged down with the bullshit about the damned kid. Sorry, Quentin, couldn't care less about that crap. Make with the fights already!

That said, I liked vol. 2 better than vol. 1. The fight between Uma and Daryll beats anything in vol. 1. Where the Uma/Vivica fight seemed over-choreographed, the Uma/Daryll one is very slick and full of nice moves.

Better dialogue this time around too.