Table saws

[Coligny]

Carefull with spare blades availability... that was my biggest concernn...

[Yokohammer]

Carefull with spare blades availability... that was my biggest concernn...

Yes, that's a very good reason to go with a major manufacturer, even if the feature set doesn't look as good on paper.

For example: I have a Ryobi ML-82S electric planer that is now out of production, but the current ML-83S uses the same blades so supplies are plentiful. Can't be sure of that with a maker name that elicits a "who?" type response. In fact, I just ordered a dust collection nozzle for that out-of-production planer on Amazon last week. It is so nice to have a reliable supply of parts.

[Coligny]

Yes, either go with brand names OR with no name smart enough to use common size spares. Like jigsaws... My no name use makita ( or bosh) spares, so availability AND quality are non issues.

For something as exotic and expensive as woodplaner... Play safe, not smart...

[Salty]

BTW – both Coal Tar and Creosote are available at large home centers and either can be used for below the ground treatment to help delay the onset of rot. I use the coal tar to seal heartwood that is exposed on trees which have been damaged or topped out. I use the creosote for below the ground treatment of posts. Either can simply be painted on and left to dry before use of the timber.

how are they called / look like ?

Just give them a katakana pronunciation. korutaru and kuriosoto, or something like that. I bought 18 litre cans, but smaller cans may be available.

[Russell]

Cool!

So, why would it be the perfect combination with the HL-6A planer, as Ryobi claims?

Edit: Hmm, here seems to be the answer to my question.

[Coligny]

You can use a tablesaw as jointer.
Or a tracksaw
Or a circular saw+guiderail

[Russell]

You can use a tablesaw as jointer.
Or a tracksaw
Or a circular saw+guiderail

I don't get how you can make a surface flat by using any of these saws.

[Coligny]

Jointer, makes edge true, they are not a surface planner, I think we are heading toward a vocabulary war...

image.jpg

On this device, you hold plank perpendicular to the ground, exposing their side to the blades.

After that you can glue the edge together to make bigger planks

[Russell]

On the other hand, I do have something coming up that would make a thickness planer or drum sander very handy, and that thought is starting to scare me a little.

How about using a router for planing your stock for flatness and to thickness?

[Coligny]

In 14 short hours....

[Yokohammer]

On the other hand, I do have something coming up that would make a thickness planer or drum sander very handy, and that thought is starting to scare me a little.

How about using a router for planing your stock for flatness and to thickness?

That has got to be the dumbest idea I've seen in a long time. It would not be a really stupid approach only if you had a large number of boards of exactly the same size to surface, and in that situation I'd have to say that a thickness planer would be a better investment.

Anybody ever heard of a "hand plane"? If you just have one board like that to clean up you could have the job done with a hand plane faster than you could build that silly jig.

If you don't have a hand plane or two, you really should get a couple and learn how to use them. I have a few lying around that I use all the time: a block plane, an old beat-up Stanley #4 that I bought for 5 dollars at a thrift shop in Melbourne and restored, and a couple of Japanese style planes. I don't need to do much surface planing, but I use them for edge planing and truing up joints just about every time I'm putting two or more pieces of wood together. There is simply no power tool that is as quick and convenient or leaves a better surface. The only real "skill" involved is in sharpening the blades, and that's worthwhile learning anyway.

One problem: if you prefer western style hand planes they are quite hard to find here. And expensive (I haven't seen plain old Stanley planes anywhere ... just expensive Veritas and Lie-Nielsen stuff). But Japanese planes work very well once you figure out the quirks, and they certainly are plentiful. Definitely worth the initial effort.

[Russell]

Well, with hand planes you cannot get your stock to equal thickness.

And I find them a pain to work with. But then again, yes, maybe I should practice more...

[Yokohammer]

Well, with hand planes you cannot get your stock to equal thickness.

That's what they've been used for, among other things, for hundreds of years.

And I find them a pain to work with. But then again, yes, maybe I should practice more...

Once again, the key word is "sharpening." A dull plane is worse than useless.* A properly sharpened and adjusted one is incredibly easy to use. The adjustment part isn't as difficult as most people seem to think. I think a lot of people are scared of hand planes because they've tried to use a dull, poorly adjusted one and concluded that they're a pain in the ass (and in that situation they would be correct). But trust me on this one: learn how to sharpen and set up a hand plane and you will never go back. Really.

* And that goes for a lot of brand new planes too: useless until properly sharpened. Some of the more expensive ones come ready to roll right out of the box though.

[Russell]

So, Hammer, why were you contemplating to buy an electrical thickness planer if those hand versions work so well? I assume you do not need to work on a large stock?

[Yokohammer]

So, Hammer, why were you contemplating to buy an electrical thickness planer if those hand versions work so well? I assume you do not need to work on a large stock?

An excellent and perceptive question.

You are quite right ... I don't need to work on large stock. What I need to flatten are rings or half-rings of glued segments for segmented bowls to be turned on the lathe. That will need to be done multiple times for each bowl or vase or container (or whatever), and since hand planing is easy in straight lines but not so easy around curves, I thought some automation might be in order.

However, I think I've decided that a disk sander will do for that application, which means I won't have to buy any new equipment and clutter up my limited shop space any more. Gotta think these things through carefully before pulling the trigger.

[Coligny]

I want a drum sander for my drill press...

And a civilized hand panner with pull handles... Not the shit they sell here...

Also... While the jig is... A bit st00pid. Matt Cremona use one like this to make end grain cutting boards where a regular planner would be destroyed in 2 passes...

But you have to be a bit off to make or use end grain cutting boards...

[Coligny]

However, I think I've decided that a disk sander will do for that application, which means I won't have to buy any new equipment and clutter up my limited shop space any more. Gotta think these things through carefully before pulling the trigger.

For limited space workshops... How do you think them contractors do !?

https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLB ... aoniyBXRMz

They build special trailers....

And at least, your workshop is not on the second floor of the house :/(

[Russell]

So, Hammer, why were you contemplating to buy an electrical thickness planer if those hand versions work so well? I assume you do not need to work on a large stock?

An excellent and perceptive question.

You are quite right ... I don't need to work on large stock. What I need to flatten are rings or half-rings of glued segments for segmented bowls to be turned on the lathe. That will need to be done multiple times for each bowl or vase or container (or whatever), and since hand planing is easy in straight lines but not so easy around curves, I thought some automation might be in order.

However, I think I've decided that a disk sander will do for that application, which means I won't have to buy any new equipment and clutter up my limited shop space any more. Gotta think these things through carefully before pulling the trigger.

I agree that a disk sander is probably the easiest way.

I still believe that the router setup would be better in this case than a planer, whether by hand or by electric one.

[Wage Slave]

I use them for edge planing and truing up joints just about every time I'm putting two or more pieces of wood together. There is simply no power tool that is as quick and convenient or leaves a better surface. The only real "skill" involved is in sharpening the blades, and that's worthwhile learning anyway.

Nowhere near the same league, but for the kind of rough and ready work within my compass an old Stanley surform plane is a very handy and near idiot proof tool.

[Wage Slave]

Actually it turns out mine is a bit older. It's made by Simmonds before Stanley bought all the rights and manufacturing capacity. The label on mine has almost gone but it's this one all right:

1280px-Simmonds_Surform.JPG

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surform

[Yokohammer]

I use them for edge planing and truing up joints just about every time I'm putting two or more pieces of wood together. There is simply no power tool that is as quick and convenient or leaves a better surface. The only real "skill" involved is in sharpening the blades, and that's worthwhile learning anyway.

Nowhere near the same league, but for the kind of rough and ready work within my compass an old Stanley surform plane is a very handy and near idiot proof tool.

More rasp than plane, but still a great tool!
That one looks like quite a classic.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Grumpy Gramps]

Here is my collection, pretty close to what Yokohammer seems to have:

planes.jpg

Stanley #4 and blockplane (off eBay), a spokeshave, which I find incredibly useful, two Japanese planes from the home-center, which are OK but a PITA to adjust and this "sureform" type rasp also from a home center, which I use a lot. Least used is the larger Japanese plane, which I could live without.

Still on the lookout for an affordable Stanley #6 or similar for planing larger boards (no space for a thickness planer now) and a round bottom spokeshave. Everything easily available on eBay, but some sellers get really greedy on shipping cost these days.

[Yokohammer]

Here is my collection, pretty close to what Yokohammer seems to have:

planes.jpg

Stanley #4 and blockplane (off eBay), a spokeshave, which I find incredibly useful, two Japanese planes from the home-center, which are OK but a PITA to adjust and this "sureform" type rasp also from a home center, which I use a lot. Least used is the larger Japanese plane, which I could live without.

Still on the lookout for an affordable Stanley #6 or similar for planing larger boards (no space for a thickness planer now) and a round bottom spokeshave. Everything easily available on eBay, but some sellers get really greedy on shipping cost these days.

Now you're talkin'!

Looks about right. The block plane and the #4 are pretty much the basics, although some people seem to prefer to work with a block plane and a #5. Either way, the block plane needs to be there for trimming edges and end grain. Not sure I'd go for a #6 though. If I wanted one that would do jointing and smoothing on larger stock I'd be looking for a #7.

But what's with the complete lack of relatively inexpensive Stanley planes here in J-land? Any known sources? A nice Veritas or Lie-Nielsen will set you back around 40K yennings. Ouch. You can almost buy a thickness planer for that.

Edit: BTW, my favorite Japanese plane is a tiny little thing with an 18mm blade (I think it is). Use it a lot for trimming and chamfering. I have another smallish one with a 40mm blade that I bought for something like 1600 yen at the home center. That one works fine too, it's just all the tippity-tappety adjustment you have to do compared to the nice precision screw adjustments on a western plane. Get it right, though, and it cuts beautifully.

[Russell]

All this talks about planes makes me wonder by what they are actually replaced?

Does one need a thickness planer AND a surface planer to replace a set of hand planes?

I think a hand planer just smoothes the surface, but does not do a job as well as a thickness planer to craft stock in constant thickness.

I've got a set of Japanese hand planes, and used them in the past. And yes, I sharpened them with stones. However, I found them a PITA. Did not enjoy that at all and was not satisfied with the results. Of course, I am not a professional carpenter, and I do not have a lot of time to tune these things, and to learn how to use them like an expert.

I gave one of my planes away to my son. Hope he has a better use for it...

[Yokohammer]

All this talks about planes makes me wonder by what they are actually replaced?

Does one need a thickness planer AND a surface planer to replace a set of hand planes?

I think a hand planer just smoothes the surface, but does not do a job as well as a thickness planer to craft stock in constant thickness.

I've got a set of Japanese hand planes, and used them in the past. And yes, I sharpened them with stones. However, I found them a PITA. Did not enjoy that at all and was not satisfied with the results. Of course, I am not a professional carpenter, and I do not have a lot of time to tune these things, and to learn how to use them like an expert.

I gave one of my planes away to my son. Hope he has a better use for it...

I don't think hand planes have been replaced. They're still standard tools.

If you have a number of large boards that you need to plane to a specific thickness, or need to plane large boards to a specific thickness regularly, then you need a thickness planer (noting that historically it was done by hand, but a thickness planer is a whole helluva lot faster for high volume). So in a factory that mass produces furniture, for example, a thickness planer might be the last tool that touches the wood before finishing.

A workshop that produces higher quality furniture might use a thickness planer + hand planes. Quite a few woodworkers do this: get down to the required dimensions quickly with power planers, then plane by hand for a finer finish.

But if you can use a hand plane and only need to work on smaller stock, then hand planes are probably all you need. The board in the video that started this discussion would be a quick job for someone who is used to hand planing.

Now ... as for what planes are used for, so far we seem to be talking about thickness and surfacing. But hand planes are ideal for joinery too, and they can be used to work on details that a power tool couldn't even approach. I even used planes on that stupid little turning tool rack I posted in the Tinkering thread. There were a couple of rough edges off the bandsaw ... they were straightened and cleaned up in just a few strokes of the block plane. Some joined edges weren't even, so I simply planed them even.

You can do the same by sanding but there are two main drawbacks:
* 1) sanding takes longer and requires more effort, and
* 2) sanding makes tons of harmful sawdust while planing only makes shavings.
Oh yeah, and planing makes a nicer finish that doesn't even need sanding.

Nope, no replacement that I know of. I think hand planing is just generally overlooked because it is seen as difficult. There is a learning curve to be sure, but once you've got it you will choose to plane rather than sand in many situations. Promise.

[Coligny]

Matt Cremona endgrain cutting boards, router surface planning at 2:50

[Russell]

All this talks about planes makes me wonder by what they are actually replaced?

Does one need a thickness planer AND a surface planer to replace a set of hand planes?

I think a hand planer just smoothes the surface, but does not do a job as well as a thickness planer to craft stock in constant thickness.

I've got a set of Japanese hand planes, and used them in the past. And yes, I sharpened them with stones. However, I found them a PITA. Did not enjoy that at all and was not satisfied with the results. Of course, I am not a professional carpenter, and I do not have a lot of time to tune these things, and to learn how to use them like an expert.

I gave one of my planes away to my son. Hope he has a better use for it...

I don't think hand planes have been replaced. They're still standard tools.

If you have a number of large boards that you need to plane to a specific thickness, or need to plane large boards to a specific thickness regularly, then you need a thickness planer (noting that historically it was done by hand, but a thickness planer is a whole helluva lot faster for high volume). So in a factory that mass produces furniture, for example, a thickness planer might be the last tool that touches the wood before finishing.

A workshop that produces higher quality furniture might use a thickness planer + hand planes. Quite a few woodworkers do this: get down to the required dimensions quickly with power planers, then plane by hand for a finer finish.

But if you can use a hand plane and only need to work on smaller stock, then hand planes are probably all you need. The board in the video that started this discussion would be a quick job for someone who is used to hand planing.

Now ... as for what planes are used for, so far we seem to be talking about thickness and surfacing. But hand planes are ideal for joinery too, and they can be used to work on details that a power tool couldn't even approach. I even used planes on that stupid little turning tool rack I posted in the Tinkering thread. There were a couple of rough edges off the bandsaw ... they were straightened and cleaned up in just a few strokes of the block plane. Some joined edges weren't even, so I simply planed them even.

You can do the same by sanding but there are two main drawbacks:
* 1) sanding takes longer and requires more effort, and
* 2) sanding makes tons of harmful sawdust while planing only makes shavings.
Oh yeah, and planing makes a nicer finish that doesn't even need sanding.

Nope, no replacement that I know of. I think hand planing is just generally overlooked because it is seen as difficult. There is a learning curve to be sure, but once you've got it you will choose to plane rather than sand in many situations. Promise.

Thanks for your explanation.

And to add to it, sanding has the tendency to round off stuff, rather than keeping it straight.

Hmm, I just had a look at the plane that I still have: it is a side plane to make rabbets of up to 30mm (which is easier to do by router). The plane I gave to my son is a 50 mm, and I just saw that its blade has been pretty much abused. I suspect he tried to hammer it back when it was too far out.

Anyway, most of the stuff I plan to do is on large stock, but I will keep your wise words in mind. Maybe I can get some fun out of that. First, I have to sharpen my son's plane, though...

[Grumpy Gramps]

Anyway, most of the stuff I plan to do is on large stock

Large stock = large plane

Still paper-thin shavings.

[Coligny]

So, that's how tey make notepads...

[Yokohammer]

So, that's how tey make notepads...

Toilet paper.

(Watch out for splinters.)