Uncle Sam wants Yucho!?

[Samurai_Jerk]

I was on the English language version of the Japan Post website and noticed something interesting. When you click on the drop down menu for Financial Information ...

yucho2.png

... you get the following message:

yucho.png

What's that all about?

[wagyl]

A complete mystery, seeing as you can access the hidden goodies without clicking on that via the page source data, and the contents are no different to the contents available freely from the Japanese language page, except for the language it is expressed in.

The only thing I can think of is that it is part of the official secrets regulations of last year, but that seems very unlikely and I don't think it has a regional component to prevent dissemination in one particular geographic area.

[Wage Slave]

Maybe to do with the IRS? For my share trading account in A N Other Country I had to sign a statement for the IRS confirming that I wasn't American, had absolutely no connection with America and had no plans to be connected with America. The form threatened all kinds of consequences if I was fibbing. It had to be signed and the original delivered to some office in Washington. Way over the top.

I hear Americans are finding it difficult to open or keep even basic bank accounts because the the IRS makes it hell for the bank. It's far cheaper and easier to just exclude Americans completely.

[yanpa]

It had to be signed and the original delivered to some office in Washington. Way over the top.

Yeah, why would the American IRS even have an office in Tyne and Wear?

[wagyl]

Wage Slave, I had a similar experience opening a new bank account in December in a country not Japan and not the US, so I know what you are talking about. But this restriction has nothing to do with nationality, only whether you or the person you are going to send hyperlinks (for God's sake) to are physically in the US.

The IRS want information on your assets and bank accounts (if you are American) to see whether you have a tax liability. I don't know why the IRS would want to know that you have looked at the last quarter's financial statements for the banking arm of the Japanese post office...



By the way, Google are in deep shit: http://www.google.co.jp/url?sa=t&rct=j& ... 1401,d.dGY links to a subsidiary page which is usually only accessed through a page similar to that captured by SJ above.

[Wage Slave]

No, nor do I. It might be just that their attitude is so extreme, banks are being forced to do all kinds of silly things to try and keep them at bay.

[wagyl]

What do you mean, extreme, or silly?

Surely, if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear! You can trust us!

[kurogane]

The only thing I can think of is that it is part of the official secrets regulations of last year, .

In which case, you might be living out that bad 80s song soon...............

[Coligny]

Or V for Vendetta...

Lewis Prothero: Did you like that? USA... Ulcered Sphincter of Arse-erica, I mean what else can you say? Here was a country that had everything, absolutely everything. And now, 20 years later, is what? The world's biggest leper colony. Why? Godlessness. Let me say that again... Godlessness. It wasn't the war they started. It wasn't the plague they created. It was Judgement. No one escapes their past. No one escapes Judgement. You think he's not up there? You think he's not watching over this country? How else can you explain it? He tested us, but we came through. We did what we had to do. Islington. Enfield. I was there, I saw it all. Immigrants, Muslims, homosexuals, terrorists. Disease-ridden degenerates. They had to go. Strength through unity. Unity through faith. I'm a God-fearing Englishman and I'm goddamn proud of it!
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Substitute leper with measles though...

[wuchan]

http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Corporations/Foreign-Account-Tax-Compliance-Act-FATCA

Basically it was supposed to make credit reporting easier and allow you free access to your credit report to prevent identity theft. What it really does is force all banks that want to do any business with US banks to report the holdings of all american citizens. Why? No one really knows yet. Probably to tax people earning unreported income overseas. If your "total holdings" is over $50,000US you MUST report it.

A list of shit you need to report:http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/TypesofForeignAssetsandWhetherTheyareReportableonForm-8938

A cool loophole that works for Japan: Cash holdings does not have to be reported. I'm going to need a bigger safe.

[Samurai_Jerk]

http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Corporations/Foreign-Account-Tax-Compliance-Act-FATCA

Basically it was supposed to make credit reporting easier and allow you free access to your credit report to prevent identity theft. What it really does is force all banks that want to do any business with US banks to report the holdings of all american citizens. Why? No one really knows yet. Probably to tax people earning unreported income overseas. If your "total holdings" is over $50,000US you MUST report it.

A list of shit you need to report:http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/TypesofForeignAssetsandWhetherTheyareReportableonForm-8938

A cool loophole that works for Japan: Cash holdings does not have to be reported. I'm going to need a bigger safe.

Right but what does that have to do with Yucho's financial statements? That's why this is so weird.

[omae mona]

This one is not about FATCA. If I recall, from cases where I have seen this in the past, it's about the SEC and US securities regulations. JP Bank is selling securities which are not registered in the U.S. The U.S. is fine with that, and they are even fine with JP bank selling to US citizens, so long as they are not sold to people while they are in the U.S. If they were to sell to somebody physically in the U.S., the SEC would require JP Bank to register the securities and comply with US laws, which is costly and onerous. The disclaimer lets JP Bank off the hook.

Even though the disclaimer SJ posted is not about FATCA at all, I did want to comment on this:

http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Corporations/Foreign-Account-Tax-Compliance-Act-FATCA

Basically it was supposed to make credit reporting easier and allow you free access to your credit report to prevent identity theft.

Huh? No it wasn't. Where did you get that idea? FATCA is about tax compliance.

What it really does is force all banks that want to do any business with US banks to report the holdings of all american citizens. Why? No one really knows yet.

Yes they do.

Probably to tax people earning unreported income overseas.

That is exactly why. It is not a secret. It's more or less stated on the page you linked to, and has been discussed to death in the news for the last several years.

[wuchan]

I live under a rock. Google search:

[omae mona]

I live under a rock. Google search:

Please try searching for FATCA instead of FACTA. I think you will notice a big difference when you switch the two letters.

But at least now I understand why you were talking about credit reports.

[kurogane]

Weird thread, great title. Good health chuckle work, SJ.

BTW, I heard that FATCA was a reverse engineered acronym to purposefully highlight the potential targets. Great idea, crazy execution.

[wagyl]

Weird thread, great title. Good health chuckle work, SJ.

BTW, I heard that FATCA was a reverse engineered acronym to purposefully highlight the potential targets. Great idea, crazy execution.

They all are FACTA, FATCA, everyone's favourite USA PATRIOT (Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act of 2001)...
I wonder if Congress really knows the meaning of the word "Appropriate."

[kurogane]

Aaaaah, narooheso. Given their usual linguistic indolence and joy killing earnestness, they still get a Tee Hee from me.

I particularly enjoyed FATCA. The rich need to be either taxed or beaten. And I mean Rich! rich, not people with some assets. Warren Buffet and Bill Gates and all the others should pay a 25% annual surtax for benefitting so much from a system that benefits so relatively few.

[yanpa]

Weird thread, great title. Good health chuckle work, SJ.

BTW, I heard that FATCA was a reverse engineered acronym to purposefully highlight the potential targets. Great idea, crazy execution.

They all are FACTA, FATCA, everyone's favourite USA PATRIOT (Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act of 2001)...
I wonder if Congress really knows the meaning of the word "Appropriate."

The adjective or the verb?

[Wage Slave]

There are times the US and UK are totally apart. FATCA, as brought into being by a Democrat President, bears down very heavily on US citizens who are being forced to pay their taxes - no place to hide and all that good stuff. However Apple, Amazon, Google, Starbucks and the rest are permitted (unless I missed something) to continue pretending that they are wholly owned and controlled by a Company in the British Virgin Islands or somewhere and they are compelled by commercial agreement to hand over all their earnings and more to that company.

In the UK, even a Conservative government has been forced to at least try and impose draconian law to give the tax authorities the power to declare these schemes artificial and solely designed to avoid tax and therefore demand payment of corporate taxes on UK earnings. The companies concerned then are required to pay now and argue about it later if they choose. They hate it and are making all sorts of noises but public opinion just won't settle for anything else.

[kurogane]

I fully agree tha FATCA as deployed is completely missing the target; I remember reading in The Econ'ist it was originally designed to prevent exactly what the UK authorities are trying to prevent; then Congress got hold of it, and now middle income (at best) English Teachers in Boopadoo-land are being hounded while Jobs & Co. remains offshore and unmolested. A nice enough people in general but that toxic mix of childish idealism wedded to venal greed and their inborn obeisance to wealth can't be good for anyone.

[inflames]

There are times the US and UK are totally apart. FATCA, as brought into being by a Democrat President, bears down very heavily on US citizens who are being forced to pay their taxes - no place to hide and all that good stuff. However Apple, Amazon, Google, Starbucks and the rest are permitted (unless I missed something) to continue pretending that they are wholly owned and controlled by a Company in the British Virgin Islands or somewhere and they are compelled by commercial agreement to hand over all their earnings and more to that company.

In the UK, even a Conservative government has been forced to at least try and impose draconian law to give the tax authorities the power to declare these schemes artificial and solely designed to avoid tax and therefore demand payment of corporate taxes on UK earnings. The companies concerned then are required to pay now and argue about it later if they choose. They hate it and are making all sorts of noises but public opinion just won't settle for anything else.

The US government has the power, it's just that they refuse to do shit about it. The US tax code has a fucking beautiful thing written in it - if a transaction lacks economic substance, it is not deductible for tax purposes. Of course, the regulators have been captured by the big 4 so there's no way in hell those transactions would be declared to have no economic substance (otherwise they would lose any chance of working for the firms, which is what IRS people want to do). Even if an IRS person makes a good argument, the reaction from the big 4 is simple - offer them a job!

[omae mona]

and now middle income (at best) English Teachers in Boopadoo-land are being hounded

What's your point? English teachers should be exempt from taxes if they don't feel like paying? As somebody who has been following the rules and filing US taxes all along, I haven't felt an iota of impact from FATCA, so I continue to be confused by what all the complaints are about. I imagine FATCA is extremely irritating to those who are cheating. But I have to say I don't feel too bad for them.

I have heard about trouble for U.S. citizens trying to open new bank accounts overseas since FATCA. That sucks. But those stories seem to be more rumor than fatc. And I haven't personally heard of any stories in Japan.

while Jobs & Co. remains offshore and unmolested.

Steve Jobs is *way* offshore at this point. Anyway, the US is clearly doing something about offshore tax evasion by the wealthy (google the UBS-related prosecutions and fines, for example). In the aftermath, I have no idea whether it's still easier for the extremely wealthy to evade taxes offshore than us, er, regular folks.