Kansai Int'l Airport: still f'ed after all these years

[Buraku]

Routes, jobs go in JAL restructure
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,21100091%255E36375,00.html
...expected to increase flights on seven routes, most of which originate from the Kansai region that includes Osaka

[Tsuru]

"Kansai region"... I'll bet that means Kobe airport and not KIX.

[dimwit]

Kobe and Nagoya.

http://www.japantoday.com/jp/news/397547

[Mulboyne]

Asahi: Airlines to drop Kansai services

Japan Airlines and All Nippon Airways will slash or suspend flights on nine domestic routes in and out of Kansai International Airport in fiscal 2009, sources said. The airlines will switch their focus to Osaka International Airport, which has higher seat occupancy rates, they said. U.S.-based Northwest Airlines will also suspend flights between Kansai and Detroit and Saipan from March. The second spate of cuts to Kansai airport services follows a round of reductions and suspensions introduced last autumn. Airport revenue is expected to be severely impacted by the scaleback in operations, the sources added. JAL will reduce or suspend flights on five routes to and from Aomori and four cities in Hokkaido, the sources said. ANA will take similar measures on four routes to and from Haneda in Tokyo, Kagoshima, Kochi and Matsuyama.

[Buraku]

Every time there's an election in Osaka the idiots come out in their trucks with great ideas on how to solve the Airports debt but once the election ends they all conveniently ignore how they promise to fix this white elephant project. Nobody uses the place because landing fees are still too high.

I've also read Tokyo's Narita India service could be looking at some serious cutbacks

[Behan]

Isn't that the airport that is sinking into the bay? Or has the sinking been stopped?

[FG Lurker]

Isn't that the airport that is sinking into the bay? Or has the sinking been stopped?

Apparently it stopped. They expected it to sink a bit per year and then stop after quite some time, it seems that instead it sunk a whole lot very quickly and then stopped. If it does keep sinking though then they're fucked as there isn't much more they can do about it.

[Mock Cockpit]

Still a pleasure to use. Always a thrill for me crossing the bridge to that island. Now if the airline industry here can get it's shit together we might actually be able to get some Ryanair style action here. 10000 yen return to Guam? A bloke can dream.

[FG Lurker]

Still a pleasure to use. Always a thrill for me crossing the bridge to that island. Now if the airline industry here can get it's shit together we might actually be able to get some Ryanair style action here. 10000 yen return to Guam? A bloke can dream.

More and more airlines are pulling out of KIX, both domestic and international.

It used to be sooooooo easy for my to fly to Vancouver... Hop in a taxi for the short trip to Nankai Namba, train to the airport, then Air Canada direct from KIX. No flights from KIX to Vancouver or Seattle now, closest is San Fran and that's a nightmare for connections. So I have to fly to Haneda, get to Narita, then fly to Vancouver. Or I can fly Itami to Narita, spend all day in the f'ing airport, and then fly to Vancouver.

[Russell]

Sinking under debt, Kansai airport privatization will be test for Abe

After building an artificial island in Osaka Bay to host a gleaming, new airport in 1994, officials discovered it was sinking into the sea.

More than 20 years later, the high-stakes deal to privatize Kansai International Airport could be at risk of a similar fate, an embarrassing setback in Prime Minister Shinzo Abe’s drive to attract investments and cut its massive debt.

The problem: the government agency running the bid refuses to budge on an $18-billion price tag that makes Kansai six times as expensive as a comparable deal in 2013 for airports in Portugal, insiders said.

“The government is trying to recover what it lost in Kansai. That is not going to work,” said Sam Tabuchi, an expert in infrastructure investment at Toyo University.

The sale of the right to operate Kansai and its Renzo Piano-designed terminal represents Japan’s first major attempt to auction the rights for cash-generating infrastructure and accounts for about a fifth of the funding the Abe administration expects to attract over the next decade with such projects.

Abe advisers have touted the Kansai deal, which will be followed by sales of rights to operate smaller airports, highways and water utilities across the country, as crucial for creating a market for infrastructure and building a base of experience for Japanese companies to operate such projects overseas.

But investors balked at the price for the Kansai concession, which includes the rights to the smaller Itami airport nearby. That forced the state-owned company that runs the airport to extend by three months an initial bid deadline initially planned for February.

Officials from both the transport and finance ministries involved in the process said that lowering the price is not an option.

In addition, the current bid terms will shift all of the nearly $10 billion debt run up by Kansai to a private investor. Much of that represents costs incurred when planners discovered in 2000 that landfill under the airport was sinking and needed to be shored up with a massive retaining wall.

In December New Kansai, the company that currently runs the airport, named nine Japanese companies, including Orix Corp., Mitsubishi Corp. and Mitsui Fudosan Co., as qualified bidders.

Foreign qualified bidders include Italian group Atlantia SpA, which controls Fiumicino Airport in Rome and Ferrovial, which has a stake in Heathrow Airport Holdings Ltd.

AMP Capital Investors and IFM Investors, two key investors in Melbourne Airport in Australia, are also on the list of potential bidders, while Citigroup Inc. and SMBC Nikko Securities are advising New Kansai on the deal.

“We are potentially interested in joining a consortium as a provider of subordinated debt,” AMP Capital said in a statement. “We have held discussions with a number of parties and are currently monitoring developments.”

Japanese officials defend the Kansai price based on the growing number of overseas visitors to Japan and the airport’s capacity to add flights and operate around the clock.

Last year Kansai International Airport and Osaka International Airport at Itami attracted 32 million passengers.

But Hiroki Shibata, director at Standard and Poor’s, said Tokyo may need to abandon some debt if it wants to find a buyer and provide some backstop to investors against risks like the disruption from an epidemic or political turmoil.

“Asking private companies to shoulder all of the current debt involves a very heavy burden on their creditworthiness,” he said.

Link

Dunno what they are smoking. KIX airport has been bleeding money for years, and is located in a very inconvenient place.

To make things worse, there are two good airports nearby: Itami airport at 30 minutes from downtown Osaka and Kobe airport at 20 minutes from downtown Kobe.

I try to avoid KIX as much as possible, since it is a pain in the ass to get there. Only for some international flights it sometimes cannot be avoided. But domestic flights, no way!

[Coligny]

Abe advisers have touted the Kansai deal, which will be followed by sales of rights to operate smaller airports, highways and water utilities across the country, as crucial for creating a market for infrastructure and building a base of experience for Japanese companies to operate such projects overseas.

This is such a double plus ungood bad idea...

[kurogane]

Dunno what they are smoking. KIX airport has been bleeding money for years, and is located in a very inconvenient place.
To make things worse, there are two good airports nearby: Itami airport at 30 minutes from downtown Osaka and Kobe airport at 20 minutes from downtown Kobe.

I agree, but apparently KIX is blessed with that most cherished of reputations: it is Benri, whereas Kobe and Itami are Fuben!

I regularly take Hankyu from Kyoto to Kobe and fly from there: 900 yen or so, about an hour and a bit, and I don't have to break my KIX boycott. Last time I flew from KIX it was on a Peach flight: 7:30 am liftoff, so only the 2500 yen-ish Kyoto Station 4:30 limousine bus worked; then they left me dozing right beside the gate and I had to scramble off to Kobe and catch a Skymark flight instead. Beri Beri Benri, yes!? I think Benri might be the most incomprehensible cultural difference I regularly encounter. How does Far, Expensive, and Inconvenient count as Benri!!????

As somebody mentioned way back, the KIX-Vancouver route was quite magical. Now that it's gone Dodo I cannot see a reason to patronise that shithole ever again.

[inflames]

KIX's location is a bit annoying, but at least they managed to get the trains right (not like taking the train to Itami or Kobe airport).

The operators for KIX are in a bind - they're trying to recover costs, so they charge high fees. But the high fees deter new entrants and make it unprofitable for existing service. An airline might still operate a loss-making route just to keep customers (the idea is the destination as a whole contributes enough to make a profit), but, for example, a route that loses around $5mln per year is highly likely to get canned - KIX charged like 800,000 yen to land a 747 (NRT was more at like 900,000 yen), whereas a place like ICN charged 300,000 yen. The difference in fees alone is nearly $5mln per year.

[matsuki]

I keep seeing the word "planning" thrown around here but what is clear is that if there ever was any, it was quite shit.

[kurogane]

KIX's location is a bit annoying, but at least they managed to get the trains right (not like taking the train to Itami or Kobe airport)..

Yeah, fair point, especially if you're travelling heavy. I always use Takkyubin and go light, and the savings to either Itami or Kobe are worth the transfers but I could see it being a pain in the ass. I actually enjoy the idea of getting there for 900 yen or less, but fair enough. At least I can now get a grip on how some might want to call KIX Benri!!. Thanks.

[Cyka UchuuJin]

Other than being their overnight guest thanks to immigration a few years back, I actually like KIX. Rapito gets me there quick, queues for check in are never too bad, and fares are generally less than flying in and out of Tokyo.

I thought there were plans to build a whole new airport somewhere in the region though?

[Russell]

I thought there were plans to build a whole new airport somewhere in the region though?

Never heard of those plans.

With three airports in the region, even the Japanese probably think that enough is enough...

[wagyl]

My understanding is that the addition of Kobe made the flight paths in the region plenty complex enough, and that the limitations are in air traffic control for the region rather than runway space.

[inflames]

KIX's location is a bit annoying, but at least they managed to get the trains right (not like taking the train to Itami or Kobe airport)..

Yeah, fair point, especially if you're travelling heavy. I always use Takkyubin and go light, and the savings to either Itami or Kobe are worth the transfers but I could see it being a pain in the ass. I actually enjoy the idea of getting there for 900 yen or less, but fair enough. At least I can now get a grip on how some might want to call KIX Benri!!. Thanks.

Getting to Kobe requires either the bus or the port liner, and I really hate the port liner.

For some reason the bus prices to KIX are fucking expensive - they weren't always like that, but I think in 2010 or so they jacked them up. It was a choice between taking the Nankai to Nanba for like 700 yen and the bus to Uehonmachi for 1000 yen and I would just take the bus for convenience but for 1500 yen it's not worth it. From where I live (near Uehonmachi) the only reasonable way to go to Itami is the bus.

[Russell]

KIX's location is a bit annoying, but at least they managed to get the trains right (not like taking the train to Itami or Kobe airport)..

Yeah, fair point, especially if you're travelling heavy. I always use Takkyubin and go light, and the savings to either Itami or Kobe are worth the transfers but I could see it being a pain in the ass. I actually enjoy the idea of getting there for 900 yen or less, but fair enough. At least I can now get a grip on how some might want to call KIX Benri!!. Thanks.

Getting to Kobe requires either the bus or the port liner, and I really hate the port liner.

Yep, Portliner is not my favorite either, but going by car is convenient. Seem to remember that Kobe airport offers 1 or 2 nights free parking. For the folks living in Kobe this is highly recommended.

BTW, if you go by hydrofoil to KIX from Port Island, they offer a couple of weeks free parking.