Liar liar...

[Coligny]

what are you going to do when you get old is a good question.

Use Japan's very well developed train system

I can have your stuffs ?

[legion]

In my case I rationalised it away as a tax dodge - which it was at the time. And yeah, what are you going to do when you get old is a good question. Some people say that there isn't a problem - the money not spent on kids will pay for carers, care home and so on. True, but that still leaves the issue of power of attorney/someone defending your best interests and all that jazz. No guarantees either way but kids are likely a better bet.

If university was more affordable or there was a system of student loans here, I'd feel a lot more comfortable than I am. You are looking down the barrel of at least 5 million Yen per child. We'll do it and I don't resent it, but it's a lot of money.

5 million Yen per child is a gross underestimate, even when your child goes through public education only.

But yeah, money is a big reason why many young people do not reproduce.

OK, ruin my day. What is a good estimate for the cost of a first degree at a public university?

lots, which is why I'm going to suggest to my kids they get into a good uni or they get a job, or maybe an apprenticeship. In the UK further education has become a diluted route to a series of internships, don't know how Japan will play out with the declining kids, but I think 3 years at Tonchinkan Uni is a waste of time and money

[Wage Slave]

In my case I rationalised it away as a tax dodge - which it was at the time. And yeah, what are you going to do when you get old is a good question. Some people say that there isn't a problem - the money not spent on kids will pay for carers, care home and so on. True, but that still leaves the issue of power of attorney/someone defending your best interests and all that jazz. No guarantees either way but kids are likely a better bet.

If university was more affordable or there was a system of student loans here, I'd feel a lot more comfortable than I am. You are looking down the barrel of at least 5 million Yen per child. We'll do it and I don't resent it, but it's a lot of money.

5 million Yen per child is a gross underestimate, even when your child goes through public education only.

But yeah, money is a big reason why many young people do not reproduce.

OK, ruin my day. What is a good estimate for the cost of a first degree at a public university?

lots, which is why I'm going to suggest to my kids they get into a good uni or they get a job, or maybe an apprenticeship. In the UK further education has become a diluted route to a series of internships, don't know how Japan will play out with the declining kids, but I think 3 years at Tonchinkan Uni is a waste of time and money

The public universities are better than the majority of the private universities. Or at least are a lot harder to get into. The top ones are the best around no? Although I agree that university is not for everyone and is overrated by many, I still think that there is a lot to be said for it. Even if it just ensures that those doors on the ground floor are not locked shut. The way the world's going a second degree is almost expected - I can see myself funding an MA in the UK following the spendfest here.

I would hate to be in a position where I was saying no to a fruit of my loins if they want to do it.

[Russell]

In my case I rationalised it away as a tax dodge - which it was at the time. And yeah, what are you going to do when you get old is a good question. Some people say that there isn't a problem - the money not spent on kids will pay for carers, care home and so on. True, but that still leaves the issue of power of attorney/someone defending your best interests and all that jazz. No guarantees either way but kids are likely a better bet.

If university was more affordable or there was a system of student loans here, I'd feel a lot more comfortable than I am. You are looking down the barrel of at least 5 million Yen per child. We'll do it and I don't resent it, but it's a lot of money.

5 million Yen per child is a gross underestimate, even when your child goes through public education only.

But yeah, money is a big reason why many young people do not reproduce.

OK, ruin my day. What is a good estimate for the cost of a first degree at a public university?

Don't know the exact amount, but it is around 40万円 per year fee.

Add to that a decent amount if your kid lives on his own.

And it assumes that your kid can get into a public university.

The alternative is a private university. Count on 160万円 per year just for fees. If your kid is in the top 2%, he/she may need to pay less (like only half fee).

These are fees for private university in the engineering field.

If you're talking about the medical field, you will need a couple of 1000万円 just to enter a private university. "Commoners" cannot pay this, and will desperately trying to get into a public university. And if they fail, try again the next year. And if they fail again, try once more...

Sounds fucked, ain't it?

[Wage Slave]

In my case I rationalised it away as a tax dodge - which it was at the time. And yeah, what are you going to do when you get old is a good question. Some people say that there isn't a problem - the money not spent on kids will pay for carers, care home and so on. True, but that still leaves the issue of power of attorney/someone defending your best interests and all that jazz. No guarantees either way but kids are likely a better bet.

If university was more affordable or there was a system of student loans here, I'd feel a lot more comfortable than I am. You are looking down the barrel of at least 5 million Yen per child. We'll do it and I don't resent it, but it's a lot of money.

5 million Yen per child is a gross underestimate, even when your child goes through public education only.

But yeah, money is a big reason why many young people do not reproduce.

OK, ruin my day. What is a good estimate for the cost of a first degree at a public university?

Don't know the exact amount, but it is around 40万円 per year fee.

Add to that a decent amount if your kid lives on his own.

And it assumes that your kid can get into a public university.

The alternative is a private university. Count on 160万円 per year just for fees. If your kid is in the top 2%, he/she may need to pay less (like only half fee).

These are fees for private university in the engineering field.

If you're talking about the medical field, you will need a couple of 1000万円 just to enter a private university. "Commoners" cannot pay this, and will desperately trying to get into a public university. And if they fail, try again the next year. And if they fail again, try once more...

Sounds fucked, ain't it?

Yep, it's a major headache all right. So, at least 5 million is about right and not a gross underestimate, isn't it?

[Russell]

In my case I rationalised it away as a tax dodge - which it was at the time. And yeah, what are you going to do when you get old is a good question. Some people say that there isn't a problem - the money not spent on kids will pay for carers, care home and so on. True, but that still leaves the issue of power of attorney/someone defending your best interests and all that jazz. No guarantees either way but kids are likely a better bet.

If university was more affordable or there was a system of student loans here, I'd feel a lot more comfortable than I am. You are looking down the barrel of at least 5 million Yen per child. We'll do it and I don't resent it, but it's a lot of money.

5 million Yen per child is a gross underestimate, even when your child goes through public education only.

But yeah, money is a big reason why many young people do not reproduce.

OK, ruin my day. What is a good estimate for the cost of a first degree at a public university?

lots, which is why I'm going to suggest to my kids they get into a good uni or they get a job, or maybe an apprenticeship. In the UK further education has become a diluted route to a series of internships, don't know how Japan will play out with the declining kids, but I think 3 years at Tonchinkan Uni is a waste of time and money

The public universities are better than the majority of the private universities. Or at least are a lot harder to get into. The top ones are the best around no?

Yep, but getting in a good public university requires lots of efforts and a good strategy.

Problem is all the entrance examinations for public universities are at the same time.

Set your goals too high, and your kid will find itself unable to enter a public university. There are some second (and even third chances) for the lesser public universities, but all candidates who failed to enter the better public universities will converge on those, so competition is pretty heavy for those too.

Just got my son into a good (but private university). He loves engineering, but unfortunately he has no natural talent for math, so the road into a good public university was difficult. Anyway his first impression of this private university is pretty good. It is also better than I expected, just from looking at the curriculum and the books he brought home.

And from that university there tend to be plenty of students who will get into graduate school of a good public university. Getting into graduate schools is usually easier than getting into undergraduate schools.

[Russell]

In my case I rationalised it away as a tax dodge - which it was at the time. And yeah, what are you going to do when you get old is a good question. Some people say that there isn't a problem - the money not spent on kids will pay for carers, care home and so on. True, but that still leaves the issue of power of attorney/someone defending your best interests and all that jazz. No guarantees either way but kids are likely a better bet.

If university was more affordable or there was a system of student loans here, I'd feel a lot more comfortable than I am. You are looking down the barrel of at least 5 million Yen per child. We'll do it and I don't resent it, but it's a lot of money.

5 million Yen per child is a gross underestimate, even when your child goes through public education only.

But yeah, money is a big reason why many young people do not reproduce.

OK, ruin my day. What is a good estimate for the cost of a first degree at a public university?

Don't know the exact amount, but it is around 40万円 per year fee.

Add to that a decent amount if your kid lives on his own.

And it assumes that your kid can get into a public university.

The alternative is a private university. Count on 160万円 per year just for fees. If your kid is in the top 2%, he/she may need to pay less (like only half fee).

These are fees for private university in the engineering field.

If you're talking about the medical field, you will need a couple of 1000万円 just to enter a private university. "Commoners" cannot pay this, and will desperately trying to get into a public university. And if they fail, try again the next year. And if they fail again, try once more...

Sounds fucked, ain't it?

Yep, it's a major headache all right. So, at least 5 million is about right and not a gross underestimate, isn't it?

The whole education and upbringing of a kid will be at least 10 million yen, if you count it all in.

Of course, it also depends on what options you want to give your kid.

But lack of education does not translate well into a good future in Japan in most cases. Fortunately, you have the option for your kid to enter a university in the UK. Levels there are pretty high, and I presume fees are lower than in Japan (at least in Holland they are).

[Wage Slave]

Yep. It's fraught and expensive. And it's not as if getting into a good high school is any better.

I do have to wonder how many young families are really making enough to be able to do when it is their turn.

[Russell]

Yep. It's fraught and expensive. And it's not as if getting into a good high school is any better.

I do have to wonder how many young families are really making enough to be able to do when it is their turn.

The situation is completely fucked for them. I even doubt whether public universities are accessible to them in terms of finances.

And imagine that a kid of a young poor family is very talented for some field, but can't pay to study it. What a waste.

[Coligny]

Meanwhile in France university are near free (pay books and student healthcare)
There are some private options. But they scream "too fucking dumb to succeed in the normal/public way" like driving to work in the shortbus... All exams are a public matter anyway...
Sales and business are a different matter, mostly because 50% of the training is about bending laws without getting jailed...

[yanpa]

Fortunately, you have the option for your kid to enter a university in the UK. Levels there are pretty high, and I presume fees are lower than in Japan (at least in Holland they are).

It's a mistake to assume anything in the UK resembles anything in the rest of Europe. I keep reading about UK students fleeing to the continent as they are no longer able to countenance the eye-watering fees charged. As a non-resident family I imagine it would be even trickier to get the requisite loans or whatever... I think we may need to teach little Baby Yanpa German, it might work out cheaper. (Disclaimer: I have a genuine olde-skool German Magister Artium, albeit not really to do with costs, but because I was young and times were interesting).

Going back to the previous thread topic, marriage is so great I've done it twice...

[Coligny]

Twice yellow cabs ?

[Samurai_Jerk]

The question you need to ask yourself is what are you going to do when you are old.

Die.

[Coligny]

The question you need to ask yourself is what are you going to do when you are old.

Die.

I'd rather not wait that long...

[yanpa]

Twice yellow cabs ?

I'll leave the weird automobile fetisches to the Murkins

[kurogane]

Well, well, that all took an entertaining left turn (that's lke a right turn for you Brits). I seem to recall we have a few Proper Academicals on here, but I am not sure how many studied in Japan on the way, so here's some Insider trading.

Reputation: public universities in Japan offer solid if somewhat uninspired or stodgy education. The academics are often very much dependent on the student's motivation and interest, but that's hardly unique to Japan. That old canard about 4 years of drinking and Bukatsu with no classes is rubbish, or it's as true as it is anywhere. Deadwood tends to drift wherever it is. Russell mentioned that subsequent entry to a postgraduate programme at a pubic uni is much easier than at undergraduate level: my experience suggests he is right. The competition is considerably less because the demand is also; even since I finished PG study in Japan in 2000 it remains rarer than common, and any completed degree fom a reputable public uni are lettres de marque. I was unable to complete a degree at Kyoto, but even people that know that still remark on the fact that I went there. It's a native logic: I got in, and to them that's the achievement. And it pays off in spades: in any professional situation it's like flashing the Mito Gomon badge.

Cost: no idea, coz you and the rest of the natives paid. Thanks again, btw. I seem to remember 40 man per year for fees being about the right amount. If they can swing it a youngster can live in Kyoto city proper for 12 man quite easily simply because there is a glut of accommodation, the uni cafeteria is cheap and healthy, and if they're still only 21 and can't live on that they need a figurative kick in the head. The Chinese I bunked with lived on 3 man a month above their 8,000 yen rent.

I can't comment on the costs in the UK because I left just at the end of The Golden Era and I was in Pictland anyways. I would, however, be very happily surprised to find that by the time a Wage Slavette is that age that the UK will allow her to attend under home student fees without a qualifying residence period. Unless they turn that boat around I can't foresee the UK being a desirable place to do a first degree due to the crushing costs. A one year MSc at a top UK uni would be a good strategic top up to a first degree, though, so worth thinking about, given the rate and pace of degree inflation. BTW, as a point of information, an MA in the UK (Scotland only???) either means a first degree (a BA elsewhere), or that you failed your PhD.

Choice of Uni: from everything I have heard over the last few years, it's Kyushu U. They are said to be innovative, forward thinking and quite aggressively open. Another idea would be Ryukyu University, though I am not sure if they have kept up with the private Okinawa Universities in terms of innovation and openness. AT any rate, both KU and the Okinawan campuses seem to be driving very hard for a technology and information niche, which seems to be the new standard Arts degree a lot of us grew up on.

Another option for a foreign uni would be a Cdn University. I don't know what foreign student fees are like, but as a special 4 years it can't be beat, nobody even blinks at biracial-osity or difference, and they would learn or polish up Proper English, which is bound to pay off more than spending the first 2 years trying to figure out WTF those British students are saying........ (seriously, though: it took me 6 months to tune my ears, and I am nothing but a native speaker insert Scottish jokes here)

Benefit: nobody should be forced to go to university, and I find it hard to believe any of the hippies on here would do that, but neither should anybody ever underestimate the lifelong value of a properly completed first degree from a decent enough institution. People that deride university study in general are usually shortsighted, narrow-minded, filthy plebs too cowardly and self-absorbed to raise their gobs from their doughnut bowls and see that education makes people better and better paid, not just smarter and less scummy. Allowing that university isn't for everybody, and shouldn't be (it was never supposed to be), impressing upon your loin fruit that it is something to be considered both in the short term and the long seems right and proper for a good and loving parent. The Olden Days of Honest Hard Work are long gone, and even those who have only read one issue of The Economist knows Uni grads get paid better, period.

Seriously, though: Kyushu University. My whole academic cohort is simply raving about it.

PS Oooh! Oooh! Mistah Kottah! Mistah Kotta!!!!!!!!!!! I just remembered two secret jewels: Shimane and Tottori Universities. For Much Lesserly Ranked nationals they have a number of niche specialties (esp. health care and social work), and a healthy number of properly ranked scholars that chose the lifestyle migrant route over the Big City rat race. As maybe I should have, in retrospect. The kids get a national uni degree, and they get to live in one of the least known truly stunningly beautiful areas in all of Japan. They'll learn at least a bit of a charming dialect (if only to talk to the supper ladies and shopkeepers), and they will certainly learn to stand up without the pull of the apron strings. A highly recommended backdoor route.

[Russell]

Kurogane, interesting post.

I do think, though, that the level of a university also depends on the field.

Tottori university, for example, is the top of Japan in veterinary medicine, but not exactly in engineering.

[Russell]

I'm about 40 and don't want kids. Settle down with someone? Sure. Get married if there's no financial incentive? ....

I used to think like that, then my now wife said I want to get married have kids and buy a house and I said "yeah OK" without thinking it through. I am now typing this while being attacked by a lego alligator.

The question you need to ask yourself is what are you going to do when you are old.

That's an interesting question, but I think it should not be the major consideration for getting kids.

In my opinion, having kids makes you grow in a more fulfilling way as a human being. And with my kids now being teenagers, it has become really fun to interact with them. Every age has its charms, but there are only so many lego alligators that keeps a father interested.

[kurogane]

Russell,
Yes, for sure. I think even the top rank nationals have or are moving away from the idea of a one stop shop and concentrating on specific specialties and niche areas. I have also heard Tottori and Shimane (and again, Kyushu) are actively pursuing the specialties that make them more attractive than they used to be. It makes it much more work for interested students and their parents, but it also opens up possibilities for those who aren't rich enough to go just anywhere, or talented/smart/studious enough to get into Tokyo or Kyoto. And as you probably know, half the battle of Tokyo or Kyoto is having that specific talent for taking tests, which are not a measure of the whole person's ability or intelligence.

Lovely reply to Legion there, btw. Nuku Nuku........ :sin:

[kurogane]

Russell,
Yes, for sure. I think even the top rank nationals have or are moving away from the idea of a one stop shop and concentrating on specific specialties and niche areas. I have also heard Tottori and Shimane (and again, Kyushu) are actively pursuing the specialties that make them more attractive than they used to be. It makes it much more work for interested students and their parents, but it also opens up possibilities for those who aren't rich enough to go just anywhere, or talented/smart/studious enough to get into Tokyo or Kyoto. And as you probably know, half (or 4/5???) the battle of Tokyo or Kyoto is having that specific often rather manic talent for taking tests, which is in no way a measure of the whole person's ability or intelligence.

Lovely reply to Legion there, btw. Nuku Nuku........

[Yokohammer]

I'm about 40 and don't want kids. Settle down with someone? Sure. Get married if there's no financial incentive? ....

I used to think like that, then my now wife said I want to get married have kids and buy a house and I said "yeah OK" without thinking it through. I am now typing this while being attacked by a lego alligator.

The question you need to ask yourself is what are you going to do when you are old.

Spend years caring for a bedridden partner? Of course that can go both ways.

Basically, no matter what you expect to get out of a marriage, which is pretty much guaranteed not to be what you end up getting, if you end up with a good lifelong friend you've done very well. In that respect I think I've done OK. Not planning to make any changes at this stage of the game.

[Samurai_Jerk]

The question you need to ask yourself is what are you going to do when you are old.

Die.

I'd rather not wait that long...

Don't worry that's just theoretical. I won't make it to old age.

[Coligny]

The question you need to ask yourself is what are you going to do when you are old.

Die.

I'd rather not wait that long...

Don't worry that's just theoretical. I won't make it to old age.

If we have the same business plan, What will they do with our stuffs then ? Too much supply will devalorize the stuff commodity market !?

[inflames]

Well, well, that all took an entertaining left turn (that's lke a right turn for you Brits). I seem to recall we have a few Proper Academicals on here, but I am not sure how many studied in Japan on the way, so here's some Insider trading.

Reputation: public universities in Japan offer solid if somewhat uninspired or stodgy education. The academics are often very much dependent on the student's motivation and interest, but that's hardly unique to Japan. That old canard about 4 years of drinking and Bukatsu with no classes is rubbish, or it's as true as it is anywhere. Deadwood tends to drift wherever it is. Russell mentioned that subsequent entry to a postgraduate programme at a pubic uni is much easier than at undergraduate level: my experience suggests he is right. The competition is considerably less because the demand is also; even since I finished PG study in Japan in 2000 it remains rarer than common, and any completed degree fom a reputable public uni are lettres de marque. I was unable to complete a degree at Kyoto, but even people that know that still remark on the fact that I went there. It's a native logic: I got in, and to them that's the achievement. And it pays off in spades: in any professional situation it's like flashing the Mito Gomon badge.

Cost: no idea, coz you and the rest of the natives paid. Thanks again, btw. I seem to remember 40 man per year for fees being about the right amount. If they can swing it a youngster can live in Kyoto city proper for 12 man quite easily simply because there is a glut of accommodation, the uni cafeteria is cheap and healthy, and if they're still only 21 and can't live on that they need a figurative kick in the head. The Chinese I bunked with lived on 3 man a month above their 8,000 yen rent.

Kyoto wouldn't let me in but I got a master's from a private uni (think 関関同立). I definitely agree on the achievement thing, although with private unis the rivalry stuff tends to come in (in a kind of a joke way). Getting into graduate school here is pretty easy - there is a test, but the test isn't important - the important thing (which I didn't know when I applied to Kyoto) is that getting a professor to like you and agree to work with you basically means the test doesn't count.

I think now the fees are around 500,000 for a public uni. Private is 2x-3x that, depending as to what you study. At my graduate school the fees ranged from 1,000,000 yen a year to 1,500,000 yen a year. Then there's the "entrance fee" (300k paid once) then some "support fees" (100k or so paid each term).

For the shit reputation unis here have, top level unis (such as the national ones, MARCH and 関関同立) offer a good value for the money. If the choice is between Tokyo, Kyoto, Harvard, and Oxford, kids should probably go overseas. However, if it's a choice between midlevel unis in Japan and overseas, basically either is OK. Unis here and overseas both have positives and negatives.

[Mock Cockpit]

Meiji may offer my son a spot through his rugby. Estimated at 14 million over 4 years and he can't even choose his major. But it is Meiji. Teikyo are also chasing him and they offer a full ride. But it is Teikyo. Fucked if I know how I'll be able to afford Meiji if he gets in. When he's riding the gravy train he better remember his old man.

[Wage Slave]

When he's riding the gravy train he better remember his old man.

Yep, that's a consoling thought - though there are no guarantees of course. Meanwhile, I hear that there ARE students' loans. Details to follow but apparently the poor little sods have to start paying back immediately they graduate regardless of their income. Still, interesting and more investigation needed methinks.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Meiji may offer my son a spot through his rugby. Estimated at 14 million over 4 years and he can't even choose his major. But it is Meiji. Teikyo are also chasing him and they offer a full ride. But it is Teikyo. Fucked if I know how I'll be able to afford Meiji if he gets in. When he's riding the gravy train he better remember his old man.

He should go for the full ride.

[Mock Cockpit]

Meiji may offer my son a spot through his rugby. Estimated at 14 million over 4 years and he can't even choose his major. But it is Meiji. Teikyo are also chasing him and they offer a full ride. But it is Teikyo. Fucked if I know how I'll be able to afford Meiji if he gets in. When he's riding the gravy train he better remember his old man.

He should go for the full ride.

Me: We should go and see what Teikyo have to say at least.
Missus: Meiji
Me: A full ride is like free money.
Missus: Meiji
Me: And Teikyo's rugby program is much stronger
Missus: Meiji
Me: ................................

To be fair you can replace the missus with any Japanese over the age of 40 and the conversation will be the same.

[Samurai_Jerk]

You could also replace the missus.

[Takechanpoo]

until around my generation(mid 30s), Nihonikueikai(日本育英会), national schorship, now called JASSO, had a no-interest plan and the exaction of debts was so loose or generous. there were many non-payers. but probably as a reaction of the looseness at the era, now they relentlessly collect the money and put non-payers into bankruptcy.


and regardless of MARCH, teikyo or the others, all private universities here sucks so much. no worth to pay the money for it.
if you cant get in national university in this country, i recommend to get in special school(専門学校) and become a craftsman.