DON'T keep the change

[Samurai_Jerk]

Woman arrested for pocketing change given to her by mistake

Police in Miyagi Prefecture on May 21 arrested a woman on swindling charges after the cashier at a local store erroneously handed her an extra 45,000 yen in change. The woman is denying the charges, claiming that she simply “didn’t notice” the large amount of cash she received in the transaction.

I wonder what the full story is because something like this shouldn't end in an arrest.

[legion]

Wonder what the law is on this in Japan, as far as I am aware in the UK if this happened it is the shop's mistake and the customer is under no obligation to rectify it.

If I get too much change I always point it out because it is most likely the cashier will have the difference deducted from their wages, which are already low enough. I do this because I am considerate, I wasn't aware I was under a legal obligation.

[Coligny]

Holy fuck, if I have to start counting the change I'm as good as fucked...
I don't do math... Ever...
I can use bearing compass allright, but everything else is black magic.
Easier to count in items...
For prices
10 Nissan March is one Mercobenz. 4 Mercobenz is a house.
For weigth
20 cats is 1 Mom
50 Mom's in one car
50000 cars is one aircraftcarrier

[yanpa]

Holy fuck, if I have to start counting the change I'm as good as fucked...
I don't do math... Ever...
I can use bearing compass allright, but everything else is black magic.
Easier to count in items...
For prices
10 Nissan March is one Mercobenz. 4 Mercobenz is a house.
For weigth
20 cats is 1 Mom
50 Mom's in one car
50000 cars is one aircraftcarrier

Or 470 London buses (probably owned by RATP now anyway...)

[Coligny]

That would be a unit of capacity.
If aircraftcarriers are weight and capacity at the same time, it gets confusing.

Like using titanic as time unit:
"I'll arrive in 2 titanic" is insane. How can you be twice slower than never !?

[Salty]

The moment this was pointed out to the perp, she should have immediately coughed up the cash, and I suspect that she wouldn`t have been arrested. My guess is that she denied it happened until it was too late.

I admit to having kept a large bill that was blowing down the street, nobody in sight, instead of taking it to the police – many years ago. I have felt bad about that ever since.

[kurogane]

Wonder what the law is on this in Japan, as far as I am aware in the UK if this happened it is the shop's mistake and the customer is under no obligation to rectify it.

If I get too much change I always point it out because it is most likely the cashier will have the difference deducted from their wages, which are already low enough. I do this because I am considerate, I wasn't aware I was under a legal obligation.

Well, let us examine this idea using analytic logic: 1) in Japan, as we know from experience, the customer is a necessary evil, existing as he does for the convenience and profit of the business, his behaviour being regulated by the exigencies of said business, whether in the singular or the generic, and having few other rights or privileges or even reason for being alive at all; 2) their Lost and Found rules are hilariously arcane and detailed (imagine that, eh!), and involve rights and duties on both the losing and finding side (having ridden both sides of that fence).

So, if we add 1) to 2)............we get theft by default: a windfall of ill botten gooty improperly arrived at and concealed, possibly exacerbated by further mendacity, leading to the current legal situation.

[wagyl]

I'm reserving judgement until I know more about the background here, but i mostly want to ask Kuro why he thinks logic has any operation, even if you are just using it to analyse the situation.

You'd have to be pretty distracted to not notice that you had received 4 additional man yen notes and a 5000 yen note when you were expecting 3000 yen in change, but then again you would have to be pretty distracted to dish out even one single man yen note in change.

[kurogane]

Ooops. A fair criticism that

I say she pulled a Steve Miller Band, but somehow got caught and lied...........but yeah, just speculating, naturally. I do wonder how she got caught.

PS here's a vernacular account............sort of

http://taimuri-news.seesaa.net/article/419391546.html

Warning! These feckers write worse than Faux News

[Yokohammer]

Holy crap ... she had a JPY 102,000 mobile phone bill!

There's a red flag, right there.

So she gives the clerk 105,000. The clerk mistakenly enters 150,000, and thus the 48,000 change.
That explains the situation, but she'd have to be seriously distracted not to notice the difference between 3,000 change and 48,000 change.

But the clerk did screw up in this case, so I'm not sure arrest is an appropriate response.

Swindling? Fraud? Weird.

[matsuki]

But the clerk did screw up in this case, so I'm not sure arrest is an appropriate response.

THIS

Swindling? Fraud? Weird.

I'm pretty sure she noticed before the police showed up...but while she may have scummy morals, she didn't go in there with intention to steal/defraud the business...the clerk fucked up. Wouldn't the reji have put out a receipt, basically giving her a leg to stand on if she was dead set on profiting from this?

[kurogane]

Occam says that under Japanese law a windfall so obtained is not yours........still, massive overreaction. She must have got pissy.

EDIT: Kneel before Occam!!!!!!!!!!!!


http://president.jp/articles/-/7826

In short, knowingly keeping the ill boughten gooty is fraud (from my 12 second skim there)

[Wage Slave]

Out of interest how would someone run up a mobile bill of that size? Or is it reasonable for some people?

There's another problem here - over dependence on computers. The clerk wasn't even monitoring the task never mind paying attention. Computer says give 47k to customer - give 47k to customer without any oversight at all. People turning right at traffic lights without even looking at oncoming traffic because the signal is green represents the same fallacy - and it's very dangerous.

It really makes me wonder about aircraft and cars and nuclear power stations being run by computers. It's no doubt safer on average than humans but there still needs to be human oversight to make it really safe. How to maintain and implement that is an interesting question.

[kurogane]

A salesperson might????? I dunna know.

Over the last few years I have been astounded at the innumeracy of many younger obviously PT staff. It's getting British or Indian in some places (like Okinawa). Especially if you try to round out the change. At first it's all shits and giggles........... then....................(insert Jeff Goldblum line from Jurassic Park)

[Samurai_Jerk]

pissy.

That's my guess and I almost posted the same adjective earlier but got distracted by work or something. Maybe she was already feeling combative for having to pay such a big bill. However, it's also possible the clerk didn't realize the mistake till after she'd left and called the police instead of following up directly with her.

Out of interest how would someone run up a mobile bill of that size? Or is it reasonable for some people?

There's another problem here - over dependence on computers. The clerk wasn't even monitoring the task never mind paying attention. Computer says give 47k to customer - give 47k to customer without any oversight at all. People turning right at traffic lights without even looking at oncoming traffic because the signal is green represents the same fallacy - and it's very dangerous.

It really makes me wonder about aircraft and cars and nuclear power stations being run by computers. It's no doubt safer on average than humans but there still needs to be human oversight to make it really safe. How to maintain and implement that is an interesting question.

If she went overseas it would be pretty easy to rack up those kinds of data charges pretty quickly.

Having worked a register at an ice cream shop in college I can almost see this happening. You do pretty much go on auto pilot. I say almost because I never had to deal with a mistake that big.

[kurogane]

I do get the braindead at boring PT shitjob bit, ferschur. Also, does the Machine not rule to all that submit to its omniscient benevolence? To wit, even if I know it's wrong do I not risk some sort of discipline for overriding it? With the level of automatated inventory control protocols yada yada of late I wouldn't doubt it if the system is deemed fullproof even when proven to not be so. Otherwise, we have Chaos!!!!!!!!!

[legion]

Holy crap ... she had a JPY 102,000 mobile phone bill!

There's a red flag, right there.

She might pay for a lot of stuff with her phone

[Samurai_Jerk]

Holy crap ... she had a JPY 102,000 mobile phone bill!

There's a red flag, right there.

She might pay for a lot of stuff with her phone

Those kinds of purchases don't usually go on your phone bill, do they?

[kurogane]

Exactly. I was going to tease legion for even suggesting that, and go on and suggest that if that were possible people could start emailing from their phones, have maps and internet access on their phones................. ............and then I remembered, some of the kidz today have just that.

I was thinking she had bought some stuff for her phone, or a new phone for her phone. But $1000 a month is hardly unimaginable for a good ole Kentucky girl, or the new 20dumbthing GF's jeans guyz with the douche beards, FTM. What I want to know is WTF they would arrest her over something so trivial. I go look..................

LMGTFY* 携帯　お釣り　逮捕　石巻

http://www.hochi.co.jp/topics/20150523-OHT1T50038.html

OOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHH, the plot thickens. The arrest is predicated on the suspicion that she knew when she left the shop, which makes it fraud as noted above. Gawd, those hillbillly Keystones are even more feckin' bored than should be allowed for a bunch of inbreds. Occam says she must have got snippy, and she's 47, so too old to kawaiku her way out of it, which seems unfair. OTOH, it does say the bill was a phone usage fee, and since pay by phone is a different system, as SJ said................she talks or texts CAD $1000 a month.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Global roaming or lots of international calls???

Just because those shady "news" report say it was usage charges doesn't mean they're right. As kuro already kind of said if the bill included a new fully-loaded off-plan smartphone, all the accessories, and a few man yen in monthly usages fees a 1K bill isn't that outrageous.

[Yokohammer]

How does that "keitai osaifu" system work?

Is that charged to your phone bill?

[kurogane]

Going out on my paleolithic limb here, but I am pretty sure it is a separate thingy you sign up for and charge as needed but not a function of your phone usage charges; IOW, a debit card that is attached to your phone by ether and goobledee string???

[Wage Slave]

We never use it but last time we got a new phone (clamshell natch and the battery lasts over a week) it was explained, I think, that purchases are added on your normal phone bill and is paid for however you pay that. Since the credit card pays a 1% cashback on all purchases, I've never seen any need to test it.

[kurogane]

Aha!!!!!!!!! SO much for the paleolithic guesswork.......

[Samurai_Jerk]

We never use it but last time we got a new phone (clamshell natch and the battery lasts over a week) it was explained, I think, that purchases are added on your normal phone bill and is paid for however you pay that. Since the credit card pays a 1% cashback on all purchases, I've never seen any need to test it.

Sounds like another one of those good low level tax evasions schemes like charging a bunch of shit on your Suica and claiming transportation expenses for your business. Aren't non itemized ryoshusho a blessing?

[kurogane]

Good hint, SJ!!!

[Samurai_Jerk]

Good hint, SJ!!!

I work for the man, so I don't do the Suica trick but I know people in business for themselves who do.

[kurogane]

I don't actually ever support or suborn outright tax fraud, but I know quite a few that are quite happy to try it. In my case it would be such small potatoes it would just seem churlish anyways, and like with Customs and Immi it's never worth that big red X you'll get on your compooter file.

Still, very clever. I do so like a good caper.

[matsuki]

Good hint, SJ!!!

I work for the man, so I don't do the Suica trick but I know people in business for themselves who do.

Add to that, 7-11's Nanaco....can be used for pretty much anything

[kurogane]

Did somebody say Nanako?



EEEK! She's married to Takashi Sorikomi


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