Using name + san when speaking English

[Samurai_Jerk]

I'm sure all you FG's have Japanese friends, colleagues, customers, etc. who you call Tanaka-san for example when speaking English (or another language other than Japanese). And since my job puts me in contact with a lot of customers outside of Japan I've noticed that even people in offices overseas will refer to their Japanese counterpart as Tanaka-san as well so it's not just us Japanicized FG. It seems a lot of Japanese people prefer to be referred to that way regardless of who they're dealing with and what language they're speaking. A lot of them will also call me Samurai_Jerk-san.

Is there any other country/culture you're aware of where this is common?

[Coligny]

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[kurogane]

I'm sure all you FG's have Japanese friends, colleagues, customers, etc. who you call Tanaka-san for example when speaking English

No. Not at all. Never. Ever

Is there any other country/culture you're aware of where this is common?

Wherever there are JET teachers, or in this case, that rarest of birds: an ex-JET that isn't a useless fool that still talks like a JET.

So, anyhoo: I could certainly see that as a rather common and easy habit to pick up, esp. in a mixed language office or work setting. I will hypothethithe that it will happen in Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore and India/Pakistan. Maybe Burma and Bangladesh, too. I can't back up why, but I hypothethithe it might.

I am working from the example of Indian, where they still use the native honorifics even when speaking English, as in Gandhi Ji.

[Samurai_Jerk]

I discouraged it when I taught English but it's done in my office and with most of my clients. I think it happens partly because if you have Japanese people speaking to each other in English, especially in a professional situation, they don't feel comfortable dropping "san" or just using first names with each other. Then they extend it to FG like me to be polite. What's surprised me most is how it's spread to counterparts that aren't and never have been based in Japan and don't speak the language but deal with the Japan office. It's not just when speaking either. It's also when writing emails. I wonder why "sama" hasn't made it into Japan English yet.

That reminds of one other thing. When speaking/writing English and using "san" in business situations Japanese don't follow the rules of honorifics. They will use it when referring to uchi-no-hito while communicating with soto-no-hito.

[kurogane]

I was just fecking around. I totally get how it could be used like that. My hypothethitheth stand. Especially the subcontinent, if only because they have such a long history of pidgin.

[matsuki]

I discouraged it when I taught English but it's done in my office and with most of my clients. I think it happens partly because if you have Japanese people speaking to each other in English, especially in a professional situation, they don't feel comfortable dropping "san" or just using first names with each other. Then they extend it to FG like me to be polite. What's surprised me most is how it's spread to counterparts that aren't and never have been based in Japan and don't speak the language but deal with the Japan office. It's not just when speaking either. It's also when writing emails. I wonder why "sama" hasn't made it into Japan English yet.

That reminds of one other thing. When speaking/writing English and using "san" in business situations Japanese don't follow the rules of honorifics. They will use it when referring to uchi-no-hito while communicating with soto-no-hito.

It's about 50/50 in Japanese...I get simply "choko" from people I know well and the occasional tard who somehow thinks gaijin aren't deserving/in need of "-san/-sama" honorifics. In English, more than often I get "misutaaa choko" though "choko-san" comes out here and there.

That being said, while I'm sure there are probably other countries/cultures that do this...I can't believe how leaving out honorifics or not doing that whole cross out shit and write in "onchu" can immediately indicate dameningen to "proper Japanese."

[wagyl]

I got the impression, watching people who have never been based in Japan but who were in business relationships with Japanese, that there were some incredibly rigid, dogmatic "how to do business with the Japanese" books or cross cultural seminars which emphasised the importance of showing sufficient deference. Everyone gets a -san, whether it is a Japanese language interaction or not, and whether it is appropriate in Japan or not (the uchi/soto distinction you raised).

[kurogane]

........... and the occasional tard who somehow thinks gaijin aren't deserving/in need of "-san/-sama" honorifics.

I am constantly amazed at how many in academia think and do just that. Have you ever tried returning the favour? That can get funny really quickly. They don't get the corollary. To be fair, I can't think of one that wasn't obviously Assburgered and most were obviously awkward even with Japanese. Still weird, though.

Also what Wagyl said. I love the people that refer to themselves as -san. Like Youtube's Kanadajin3. She rocks it.

[matsuki]

I got the impression, watching people who have never been based in Japan but who were in business relationships with Japanese, that there were some incredibly rigid, dogmatic "how to do business with the Japanese" books or cross cultural seminars which emphasised the importance of showing sufficient deference. Everyone gets a -san, whether it is a Japanese language interaction or not, and whether it is appropriate in Japan or not (the uchi/soto distinction you raised).

I wonder if those go into the "importance" of where to sit when in restaurant and riding in taxis

[Samurai_Jerk]

I got the impression, watching people who have never been based in Japan but who were in business relationships with Japanese, that there were some incredibly rigid, dogmatic "how to do business with the Japanese" books or cross cultural seminars which emphasised the importance of showing sufficient deference. Everyone gets a -san, whether it is a Japanese language interaction or not, and whether it is appropriate in Japan or not (the uchi/soto distinction you raised).

I'm talking about Japanese people not respecting the uchi/soto distinction when speaking English in professional situations. I don't care whether they do or not but I find it (mildly) interesting.

[Russell]

Korean language having more honorifics than Japanese, it should have at least as much of such an influence on English too.

But does it?

[kurogane]

Good point. My boycott of Korea doesn't allow me to include them in my hypothethith, but your logic is sound.

[wuchan]

In a previous job there was this one j-cunt that demanded -san from all people regardless of language. One day a guy that was visiting from a foreign office asked me why and what he and his co-workers could do about it. I told him to have his whole office use -chan or -kun instead. One day the cunt stopped making that demand and gave himself a western nickname, Joe.

[matsuki]

In a previous job there was this one j-cunt that demanded -san from all people regardless of language.

Cause, you know.....it makes offices more efficient if there is a clear vertical hierarchy