Toshiba pulls an Olympus-sized boner

[Wage Slave]

Delay delay delay...Takata may be out of business (or operating as a "new" entity before this is resolved) though I think they're probably fucked either way. J-car manufacturers aren't going to risk using them after this.

Talking to someone in the business they feel that they are well and truly stuck with Takata for the present and are having to pay Takata for the replacement bags and pay for fitting them. Without doing both Takata would be out of business in an instant and then they would have no supplier and be competing with each other to buy bags off one of the two American companies that make bags. Even then there wouldn't be anywhere near sufficient supply - They need millions upon millions of the things and they need them yesterday.

In the longer term I suppose all sorts of things could happen. I doubt if they are going to just forgive and forget but they will need an unbroken supply of bags. Someone could set up from scratch but that's expensive or someone could launch a takeover of Takata with the tacit or not so tacit support of the manufacturers. My guess would be a takeover - unsurprisingly the share price is way down.

[Coligny]

And the opposite here:

Takata to phase out amonium nitrate...

http://m.leftlanenews.com/takata-to-pha ... 88660.html

Better than slapstik comedy...

It gets better and better...

Older Takata air bag inflators installed during recall may need to be replaced

[...]

Takata is the only major air bag manufacturer using ammonium nitrate as an air bag propellant. Kennedy said Takata plans to continue using ammonium nitrate, including a newer version of the compound that does not react as violently to moisture.

However, the company is still supplying some automakers with an older inflator and propellant that uses an earlier version of the compound. The older-style inflators also have been installed as replacement parts in an unspecified number of vehicles over the past year and may have to be replaced by newer designs, Kennedy said.

Representative Michael Burgess, the Texas Republican who chaired Tuesday’s House subcommittee hearing, said he “couldn’t believe what they were telling me.”

“They are still making an air bag with ammonium nitrate as a propellant without a desiccant and they’re putting that in replacement vehicles and new vehicles,” Burgess said. “It almost seems like there should be a warning label stamped on the car.”

Kennedy said Takata has been buying replacement inflators from competitors TRW Automotive Inc. and Autoliv Inc., both of which use guanidine nitrate.

Last month, half of the replacement inflators that Takata shipped to automakers came from TRW and Autoliv, Kennedy said, adding that the figure will rise to 70 percent by the end of the year.

Kennedy said Takata has shipped 4 million replacement inflators to automakers.

Earlier on Tuesday, the top U.S. auto safety regulator said that some of those replacement parts may not offer consumers a remedy that lasts the life of the car.

Many cars equipped with older Takata air bag systems could have to be fixed more than once, said Mark Rosekind, head of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

He told a House subcommittee on Tuesday that his agency is still sifting through more than 2.4 million pages of documents from Takata, and has not determined why some of Takata’s air bag inflators explode.

As a result, Rosekind said, parts being produced to fix more than 30 million vehicles included in a recall NHTSA ordered last month may themselves have to be replaced.

More

[kurogane]

Better than slapstik comedy...

I kept thinking of an old Jerry Lewis Yellow Face routine, but couldn't find it on Boobtoob. But more than the usual Chokoesque exasperation at the group think hive mind circular logic this is starting to look like calculated malevolent negligence, and the actuarials are punching the calculators to figure out if just paying damages is cheaper than a complete fix. Sadly, the Better The Devil You Know rehabilitation strategy that Wage Slave pointed to is probably all we'll get.

[Coligny]

This and getting rid of the false safety of airbags...

It's an Obama conspiramacy to kill black people... Or white people... Or everyone... Or not...

Damn, 5 min already, time for my meds...

[kurogane]

AHA!!!!!!!!!!!!! The Great Air Bag Conspiracy..........................death through safety...........or not. Sort of like the helmets for everybody doing everything thing. or not.

Meds Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[matsuki]

more than the usual Chokoesque exasperation at the group think hive mind circular logic this is starting to look like calculated malevolent negligence, and the actuarials are punching the calculators to figure out if just paying damages is cheaper than a complete fix. Sadly, the Better The Devil You Know rehabilitation strategy that Wage Slave pointed to is probably all we'll get.

Yep, makes me wonder if the replacement airbags aren't simply dead stock of the originals. Different than the usual stubbornness, it's downright criminal level negligence and coverup. Heads will roll if someone dies/gets injured with a replaced airbag.

While I agree with Wage Slave's assessment, if all the production is in Japan, I can see the US manufacturers very quickly expanding in the US and taking over in a few years. When a major company fucks up like this, the best way to regain trust from their customers is to be upfront and identify the problem....and then make it known what is being done to remedy the problem and prevent it from happening again. SOP for J-companies seems to be in the usual 30yr time lag and they're still all about deny deny, cover up, admit nothing, maybe fire the president while making some excuses, and wait til some other news story buries the news against them.

[kurogane]

Yep, makes me wonder if the replacement airbags aren't simply dead stock of the originals.

From that article posted that was the impression I got, assuming the initial problem was this dessicant lacking ammonium nitrate thingy. And Yes, as you said. At first I was thinking Jerry Lewis meets Three Stooges in Yellow Face with a touch of August Moon Brando thrown in for clever native inscrutability. Now I'm thinking Senator Palpatine in cheap, ill fitting navy suits.

[Wage Slave]

Yep. I talked to someone about it again last night. He made an interesting point:

Even if the carmakers were minded to work with Takata to get through this, which they aren't especially because Takata have been so pig headed stubborn and arrogant, their own customers will turn against cars with Takata airbags fitted. It's gone too far now for the brand to survive. So, Takata must die. The question is how.

It might be possible for someone to take them over, fire all the senior managers and rename/restructure the company. Or the company will be forced into bankruptcy, someone buys up the assets from the liquidator and starts again.

So folks, do you fancy a gamble? Buy Takata shares and either:

1. The value soars as someone takes the company over by buying enough shares to get control.

or

2. Watch the shares become worthless as the company goes bankrupt in comprehensive fashion.

It would be interesting to know what proportion of the shares are held by directors of the company/family and what proportion are held by outsiders of various kinds. If the directors/family hold enough shares they may be able to block a takeover, so don't touch the share with a bargepole.

[Wage Slave]

BTW, Ammonium Nitrate has a lot of form. Have a look at this impressive list - Some very big big bangs stretching back a 100 years or so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonium_nitrate_disasters

[kurogane]

Isn't that sort of like the stuff used in explosive fertilisers? I seem to remember blowing up a fair portion of the empty lot down the street as a kid and getting as close to a whupping as I ever got.

Wikipaedophile says Yes, that's exactly what it is.

BTW, judging by those that won when Livedoor went down, the key to your stock idea seems to be to sell quickly after any announcement of a potential takeover plan by a larger interlocking shareholder group, after you get some jump in price of course, and then buy back after the excitement fades and then wait for the next round and repeat. One dude made a mint riding the bucking Livedoor serpent and then got investigated for insider trading by the securities cunts. I believe he was exonerated and kept his winnings. He made millionses and millionses from betting big. A big fat day trader he was. Takahara? Takasaki?

Oh, and AIA if that was obvious, me being an interested amature and all

[matsuki]

BTW, Ammonium Nitrate has a lot of form. Have a look at this impressive list - Some very big big bangs stretching back a 100 years or so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonium_nitrate_disasters

Let me guess....it's cheaper to use than the guanidine nitrate the US manufacturers are using??

[Wage Slave]

BTW, Ammonium Nitrate has a lot of form. Have a look at this impressive list - Some very big big bangs stretching back a 100 years or so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonium_nitrate_disasters

Let me guess....it's cheaper to use than the guanidine nitrate the US manufacturers are using??

No doubt. But high tech, unique quality control and diligent skilled managers/workers means it's no problem. Seriously. And in spite of their customers, largely other Japanese companies, warning them otherwise. You couldn't make it up.

[kurogane]

Plus they've got lots of it in ready supply!!!!!!!!! You really can't make this up. Mel Brooks must be gnashing his teeth over his own lack of imagination. Why don't my weebo and food fag friends ever hear about this stuff!!?????

[Samurai_Jerk]

Toshiba chief executive resigns over scandal

Toshiba's chief executive and president Hisao Tanaka has resigned after the company said it had overstated its profits for the past six years.

He will be succeeded by chairman Masashi Muromachi, with vice-chairman Norio Sasaki also stepping down.

On Monday, an independent panel appointed by Toshiba said the firm had overstated its operating profit by a total of 151.8bn yen ($1.22bn, £780m).

The overstatement was roughly triple an initial estimate by Toshiba.

The company's business empire stretches from home electronics to nuclear power stations.

[wagyl]

Chicken feed. You can't even build an Olympic stadium or a national broadcaster's HQ for that amount!

[Salty]

Sooo he resigned because he is expecting to be arrested, tried, convicted, and sent to the slammer like they did with Hoorie – right? Holding my breath on this....

[kurogane]

Just find out what university he went to and we can provide a 90% accurate prediction of whether he'll do any jail time.

PS, FTR, Horie fought the charges, which was probably a bigger contribution to his downfall than just being a fat Ahole and occasionally useful iconclast.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Toshiba shareholders sue in Tokyo for $2.45 million after stock plunge

Fifty individual shareholders of Toshiba Corp sued the Japanese conglomerate in Tokyo on Monday, seeking 301.99 million yen ($2.45 million) in damages after the firm's stock plunged in the wake of a multi-billion dollar accounting scandal.

The lawsuit against the company, as well as three former chief executives and two chief financial officers, comes as Toshiba shares hover about 40 percent lower than their value before the company questioned its accounting in early April.

Toshiba later said it inflated profits by around 155 billion yen over about seven years. A third-party probe blamed aggressive earnings goals and a corporate culture that discouraged employees from questioning superiors.

"Toshiba falsified its financial statements and misled investors," the plaintiff group said in a complaint filed with the Tokyo District Court. "Toshiba's fraud has done immeasurable damage to the trust in a stock company system."

[legion]

So they didn't mind so long as they weren't losing money?

Scuse me while I don't give a shit.

[wagyl]

So they didn't mind so long as they weren't losing money?

Scuse me while I don't give a shit.

If there is no loss able to be shown by the plaintiffs they have no damage to make a civil claim about, so there is not a lot they can do until there is a loss. But then again, you don't give a shit.

[Coligny]

So they didn't mind so long as they weren't losing money?

Scuse me while I don't give a shit.

:facepalm:

Overstating gains is a bit on the fraudulent/illegalish side of things...

[legion]

So they didn't mind so long as they weren't losing money?

Scuse me while I don't give a shit.

If there is no loss able to be shown by the plaintiffs they have no damage to make a civil claim about, so there is not a lot they can do until there is a loss. But then again, you don't give a shit.

Not much, the stock market is a casino run for the benefit of front running high frequency traders. Did these investors really think it was a measure of real value?

[legion]

So they didn't mind so long as they weren't losing money?

Scuse me while I don't give a shit.

:facepalm:

Overstating gains is a bit on the fraudulent/illegalish side of things...

You don't say

It's a bit like doing your resume, if you are honest you don't stand a chance, so you window dress, but the next guy's window dressing is that bit fancier, so you go out and buy a bigger mannequin

I used to know a CFO, he went to HQ in NYC for some bigwig meeting, they took him out to some girlie bar with Brazilian pole dancers, he liked it so much he re-routed his flight back to Tokyo to take in Rio de Janeiro. Such an honest guy.

Of course he checked our taxi fares were legit.

[matsuki]

So they didn't mind so long as they weren't losing money?

Scuse me while I don't give a shit.

:facepalm:

Overstating gains is a bit on the fraudulent/illegalish side of things...

I hope pretty much everyone involved gets some sort of criminal record/charges. Even the lower level people. "Senpai told me to do it so it's not my fault" just encourages the same lack of personal responsibility that let this shit get this far. If people know they will face criminal charges for participation in this assery, at least a few people will be more likely to speak up or GTFO. Offer up reward money for reporting it and let the fun begin...

[legion]

I think it was Kurogane that pointed out you could predict the likelihood of anyone going to prison if you knew which university they graduated from.

Investors in the TSE are benefiting from Abe & Kuroda's largess with QE, and a great deal of that so called "liquidity" is going abroad, either in the shape of payment for over priced hand bags and cars, or just honest plundering by investment banks. This is a far larger problem than Toshiba window dressing.

The stock markets ceased to be a meaningful measure of value when the central banks decided who would win and who would lose following the Lehman crash. The Japanese 1% saw how well QE was working for their counterparts elsewhere and wanted some for themselves. Abe obliged.

So please excuse my extreme cynicism.

[matsuki]

Japanese electronics firm Toshiba says it has agreed to pay a US power company about 2.2 billion dollars over the unfinished construction of nuclear reactors in the United States.

Toshiba officials say they agreed on Thursday to make the payment to SCANA.

Toshiba's former US nuclear subsidiary, Westinghouse, had deals with the US utility. Westinghouse took orders to build the nuclear reactors in South Carolina. But the firm went bankrupt in March before the work could be finished.

Toshiba reached a similar settlement last month with another US utility. It will pay Southern Company about 3.7 billion dollars.

The agreements suggest Toshiba has cleared one of the major hurdles in its attempts to turn around its business.

https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20170728_24/