Wiring money out of Japan

[matsuki]

So over the past few years, my business has gone from exporting to importing...and even with the shitty yen, I've sold more than usual this year. The problem is, lately I have larger amounts to wire....while before it was all presetup and I could be in and out in a couple minutes.....now nearly every time I go to wire funds to my US account...from which I pay the suppliers, I get 99 questions from the bank (because terrorism!) and have even been denied a few times because they simply won't accept that I simply want to wire larger amounts of funds to my own overseas account. (is that even legal?) They won't say over which amount that they need to step in and interrogate me but it seems like anything over 800,000yen?? I've had problems receiving money from overseas customers (the bank withholds the funds from your account until you explain, in detail, what they're for) but never have I had to waste soooo much time just to move money from here to the US.

Anyhow, in the US, I used a firm that would basically debit directly from your bank account and wire abroad for you in the currency of your choosing....with better rates than banks offer. Is there anything like that here or any specific bank that is less of a headache than others?

[Yokohammer]

Are you doing this via a personal or corporate account?


~ Tapatalking ~

[matsuki]

Are you doing this via a personal or corporate account?


~ Tapatalking ~

US account is a company account that also has my name on it.

JPN account is a separate account from my linked personal account, with the company name as well as my own. (they know it's for business but that the business is registered in the US)

Should also add, my employer also tends to get the third degree when they wire payments overseas.

[wagyl]

The trigger amount which they don't want to reveal is usually around USD10,000, but they often ask outside that amount too, especially if they think there might be a history of repeated transactions, or transactions designed to fly beneath the radar. In other words, by asking that question, you are possibly on a greylist.

Not only is it legal to ask those questions, and prevent dodgy transactions, but they are required to, and the authorities will make it very hard to do business with a certain street in lower Manhattan if they think that they are approving transactions assisting money laundering (the banks really don't want to have to ask).

I haven't done such transactions for a while, but I used to find the Post Office was cooler than most. This was before the reorganisation to Yucho.

Other than that, they are not much use to you in the two countries you deal with at the moment but keep an eye on http://currencyfair.com/ to see if they get regulatory approval in the future. (For a brief time, they did do transactions into JPY)

[Yokohammer]

Are you doing this via a personal or corporate account?


~ Tapatalking ~

US account is a company account that also has my name on it.

JPN account is a separate from my linked personal account, with the company name as well as my own. (they know it's for business but that the business is registered in the US)

Weird. You'd think business transfers would be no problem. I haven't done it in ages, but I remember being able to wire multiple millions (yen) at a time from my personal account here to my personal account in Oz. I think there was a limit of 5 million yen per month, or thereabouts. Probably wouldn't be able to do that now. Maybe personal transfers are easier? That doesn't to make sense, does it.

Maybe it's a US thing.

Anyway, I find banks telling people what they can and can't do with their own money really offensive.


~ Tapatalking ~

[matsuki]

The trigger amount which they don't want to reveal is usually around USD10,000, but they often ask outside that amount too, especially if they think there might be a history of repeated transactions, or transactions designed to fly beneath the radar. In other words, by asking that question, you are possibly on a greylist.

Not only is it legal to ask those questions, and prevent dodgy transactions, but they are required to, and the authorities will make it very hard to do business with a certain street in lower Manhattan if they think that they are approving transactions assisting money laundering (the banks really don't want to have to ask).

That's what it is in the US for sure but last transaction was around $7,000 US...though I do have a history of transactions just under 10K as it is also the IRS red flag amount for an audit stateside.(not repeat as in several 9k wires the same day/week...just once every month or so)

Maybe personal transfers are easier? That doesn't to make sense, does it.

I've tried this as well....same game and they won't accept the wire unless you have some reason for the transfer. (I just want to keep my money in the US doesn't work)

Anyway, I find banks telling people what they can and can't do with their own money really offensive.

THIS X 9999999999999999999999

They start asking what you're using it for, how you made the money, listing off all your incoming wires and asking who and why they sent them, etc...you don't have to be a money laundering criminal to not want to sit there and deal out the details on your personal income/expenses.

[Mike Oxlong]

Wonder if this service would be any good for you...

http://goremit.shinseibank.com/index?lang=en

[wagyl]

Admittedly it is to do with personal bank accounts but when sending to myself they have usually been satisfied with "living expenses" as a purpose of transaction. After all, if it is USD 7,000, on the occasions when they ask what you could possibly be using that amount of money for, it is very easy to point to a few months rent to show that it is not an unreasonable amount. Especially when I point out that I do my best to send a large amount of money a fewer number of times because "you motherfuckers charge 4000 yen 'foreign exchange equivalent charge' each time, even when I send to Japan in JPY. " well, not in those words, but in tone of voice.

[matsuki]

Wonder if this service would be any good for you...

http://goremit.shinseibank.com/index?lang=en

That might work!

...and save the usual trip to the bank's terebimadoguchi. (despite applying for it, I still can do this shit online)

[Mike Oxlong]

Imagine that, online banking in 2015...

Exciting times.

[matsuki]

Imagine that, online banking in 2015...

Exciting times.

Don't get me started...the account the company forced me to create and deposits my pay into is such a small, local credit union that they apparently have almost zero online services. The monthly trip to the ATM's to withdraw and redeposit my pay is a lil reminder how "advanced" this place is.

[kurogane]

If they're not careful they are going to rush headlong into the 90s any day now.

Matsuki,

You need a new bank. BTW, are you using personal accounts for business transactions? Unless the regulations have changed I am rather sure that's a No No. Look around and find a business friendly bank, and lots of people seem quite satisfied with this Shinsei operation. A properly registered Yucho business account might be another option.

Here's a couple from LMGTFY:
http://www.japantoday.com/category/busi ... ce-service

http://www.shinseibank.com/service/gore ... tml#faq010

I didn't read much, but it might be almost 21st century stuff.

[Mike Oxlong]

Imagine that, online banking in 2015...

Exciting times.

Don't get me started...the account the company forced me to create and deposits my pay into is such a small, local credit union that they apparently have almost zero online services. The monthly trip to the ATM's to withdraw and redeposit my pay is a lil reminder how "advanced" this place is.

Our largest regional bank down here finally got online banking going a few years ago, and the second-largest followed suit a year or so later. It's a real PITA to get signed up, as the interwebs = gaikoku = scary. All kinds of urging to install bloatware to keep me "safe".

[matsuki]

If they're not careful they are going to rush headlong into the 90s any day now.

Matsuki,

You need a new bank.

The salary credit union, as I said, I had no say in. That's what bank my employer uses, that's where they require you to setup up an account to get your pay....to save them that X yen a month on transfer fees. Fucking ketchi Japan!

BTW, are you using personal accounts for business transactions? Unless the regulations have changed I am rather sure that's a No No. Look around and find a business friendly bank, and lots of people seem quite satisfied with this Shinsei operation. A properly registered Yucho business account might be another option.

To be honest, I have no idea if it's designated personal or not. When I set it up, I explained my company is registered in the US (showed them documentation) and explained it's only for receiving funds here and wiring them to the US company account. (because asking each individual customer to pay an international wire fee for each order won't fly) They added the linked account onto my personal account, using my company name + my personal name. Not sure if this setup is a nono but considering this is how the bank set it up, knowing what I do, if it is...at least I have plausible deniability? I know a dude that exported from Japan and got attacked by the tax office (he wasn't reporting the income) but that was money wired in.

As to why I don't register a company in Japan....lots of money, kanji forms that I can't read, more tax fun here instead of there, and although it falls within the scope of my visa, I can imagine it being construed as some sort of visa violation if they wanted to be assholes.

[matsuki]

Imagine that, online banking in 2015...

Exciting times.

Don't get me started...the account the company forced me to create and deposits my pay into is such a small, local credit union that they apparently have almost zero online services. The monthly trip to the ATM's to withdraw and redeposit my pay is a lil reminder how "advanced" this place is.

Our largest regional bank down here finally got online banking going a few years ago, and the second-largest followed suit a year or so later. It's a real PITA to get signed up, as the interwebs = gaikoku = scary. All kinds of urging to install bloatware to keep me "safe".

You also have major banks like Tokyo Mitsubishi UFJ that only have a single fucking branch, if that, in other prefectures：

http://sasp.mapion.co.jp/b/bk_mufg/

[Samurai_Jerk]

Matsuki, don't forget to thank Uncle Sam for all this bullshit hoops you have to jump through.

A couple of days ago I was talking with a French guy who was a business partner on a couple of projects in the past. He told me he and most of his buddies in Europe and the Middle East where he does most of his business don't want American partners for most things anymore because of the headaches that come along with all the reporting requirements to the IRS once an American's name is attached to anything. I can't say I blame them.

[matsuki]

Matsuki, don't forget to thank Uncle Sam for all this bullshit hoops you have to jump through.

Yeah, that's definitely a big part of it but it also seems like a move to reduce the outflow of money to other countries when they are denying you the right to transfer money into your own foreign account.

A couple of days ago I was talking with a French guy who was a business partner on a couple of projects in the past. He told me he and most of his buddies in Europe and the Middle East where he does most of his business don't want American partners for most things anymore because of the headaches that come along with all the reporting requirements to the IRS once an American's name is attached to anything. I can't say I blame them.

I get that with bank accounts but how would one's personal reporting requirements fuck up a foreign deal/company?

[kurogane]

SJ,
I would add a healthy dash of local Mechanised Peasant mentality into that but yeah, the US Govt has really lost the plot. The unintended consequences of that rabid IRS led spazzout is really something to behold.

Matuski,
Registering a company takes zip fuck all time (one long evening of paperwork and a visit or 2 to WTF one goes to file?), and straightening out your bank accounts might make your life easier, so it sounds like one short, sharp pain in the ass for future joy or more of the usual BS . I would at least look into that Shinsei Bank thing. A friend that knows better than I claimed they were at least 10 years ahead of all the other Japanese banks in terms of service and just general customer service mentality. And as another smartass friend then quipped: "Oh, so they're all the way up to 2003 are they?"

[matsuki]

Matuski,
Registering a company takes zip fuck all time (one long evening of paperwork and a visit or 2 to WTF one goes to file?), and straightening out your bank accounts might make your life easier, so it sounds like one short, sharp pain in the ass for future joy or more of the usual BS . I would at least look into that Shinsei Bank thing. A friend that knows better than I claimed they were at least 10 years ahead of all the other Japanese banks in terms of service and just general customer service mentality. And as another smartass friend then quipped: "Oh, so they're all the way up to 2003 are they?"

Already signed up for the GoRemit service, mailing out the required unchi for it tomorrow.

I heard good things about having an account with them before...I was using ebank at the time...which was supposedly just as good...but is now Rakuten and hell if I know if that account is even still oven. After that, I was convinced to go TMUFJ for "credibility." Might as well open an account with Shinsei as well and see what they recommend for my situation.

[wagyl]

Matsuki, don't forget to thank Uncle Sam for all this bullshit hoops you have to jump through.

Yeah, that's definitely a big part of it but it also seems like a move to reduce the outflow of money to other countries when they are denying you the right to transfer money into your own foreign account.

A couple of days ago I was talking with a French guy who was a business partner on a couple of projects in the past. He told me he and most of his buddies in Europe and the Middle East where he does most of his business don't want American partners for most things anymore because of the headaches that come along with all the reporting requirements to the IRS once an American's name is attached to anything. I can't say I blame them.

I get that with bank accounts but how would one's personal reporting requirements fuck up a foreign deal/company?

The business is limited in the banks they can have an account with, as banks in some countries are not only denying new accounts to businesses with US equity, but actively forcing the closing of existing accounts. You are too much of a reporting burden to have as a customer, and the banks choose to go without the business.

And no, it is not an effort to stop capital outflow because it is going to a bank account in the same name. it is an attempt to ensure that all transactions are for a legitimate business transaction. And in that regard, in most cases showing an invoice you are paying will be sufficient, but since you are shuffling assets it is harder for them to show that they have done due diligence in ensuring that it is not you sending drug money or trying to evade tax liability.

[wagyl]

You also have major banks like Tokyo Mitsubishi UFJ that only have a single fucking branch, if that, in other prefectures

Tell me about it. I have the choice of a 250 km round trip to update the entries in my passbook at the nearest ATM, or to be charged for them to print them out and post them to me because i haven't updated my passbook.

Or the current choice of not using them at all.

But "we are the biggest bank evar." or at least were at the time they made that claim.

[matsuki]

since you are shuffling assets it is harder for them to show that they have done due diligence in ensuring that it is not you sending drug money or trying to evade tax liability.

Which is a weird concept since you would think the receiving bank with my name on it would be make either of those possibilities unlikely.

[wagyl]

Welcome to the world of regulation compliance. Rules are firm, and systems are set up so that nobody has leeway.

But also think of the case of multinationals sending money to themselves in other countries as phony "intellectual property charges" to shift profits to low tax jurisdictions. Just because the account holders are the same does not free you from investigation.

[matsuki]

But also think of the case of multinationals sending money to themselves in other countries as phony "intellectual property charges" to shift profits to low tax jurisdictions. Just because the account holders are the same does not free you from investigation.

True...but if you have tax obligation in both countries, that's not going to help.

[wagyl]

If it doesn't help, Starbucks, Vodaphone, Google and Apple, to name a very small number, have been totally wasting their time.

[chibaka]

Already signed up for the GoRemit service, mailing out the required unchi for it tomorrow.

I've used Shinsei for some years with no problems, online banking I can read, and free cash withdrawals from 7-11. Even got a mortgage with them before global banking shit itself. Haven't tried Goremit though, I used to use shitty bank, but they've pulled the plug it seems.

[Wage Slave]

Similiar experience with Shinsei. It's fine.

You get a wide range of currency accounts which actually pay some interest.
They don't deduct anything from Yen incoming from the UK
They give free transfers every month depending on balance
I even have an investment/share dealing account - not that I have the language skills to use it.

I have never been asked about money coming in but it has always been less than 1 million. Don't know about money going out because amazing though it may seem to Takechimp that's not how it works for many here. We bring money earned overseas in successful past lives into this moribund economy.

[inflames]

Shinsei used to be pretty good, then I knew a few people who got caught up over middle names with them - apparently they started some rule that if you have a middle name you must use it on the account. I personally dislike how they always require you to show your ARC (or whatever it is now) when you go in. THe free ATMs are the only thing keeping me with them, especially since Resona started charging after 6 PM.

I got a Mizuho account (Mizuho sucks, btw) and MUFJ and I actually like MUFG - their smartphone app is good (had it for years before Shinsei could come up with a responsive net banking page). Their ATM policy sucks though, as does the fact that they charge for furikomi to even MUFG accounts (which they didn't as of 2012).

BTW IIRC the requirement for being checked is 1mln yen, but if you transfer just under it banks will be likely to ask you (see "structuring" or Hastert, Dennis).

[chibaka]

I personally dislike how they always require you to show your ARC (or whatever it is now) when you go in.

I haven't set foot in Shinsei bank since I got a mortgage 9 years ago, can't think of a reason to either. Internet banking is enough.

[canman]

I have had a really shitty year with both my Mom and now my Dad passing away within months of each other. We just opened their wills and found out that we will receive a modest amount of money. I am wondering how I can send it to myself here in japan without having to pay a tax or penalty? Or will I just have to bite the bullet and get stuck paying some kind of inheritance tax. Any advice would be appreciated. I looked online but could only find how to send money different wiring companies.
I just wired C$11000, and got the 5th degree by my bank here. Who sent the money, what will it be used for etc. I didn't think it was any of there business. But I had to tell them.