Smart Meters - electricity

[Salty]

Anyone have one of those `smart meters` installed yet? TEPCO will be replacing our `rotating disk` meter with a smart meter sometime later this year. Any concerns over privacy, RF radiation, etc.

[wagyl]

Even if there are concerns, what do you propose to do about it?

[Russell]

Even if there are concerns, what do you propose to do about it?

Shield it...

[Salty]

Even if there are concerns, what do you propose to do about it?

That would depend upon the particular concern. Do you have one yet?

[kurogane]

In Canader land a property owner can refuse a smart meter but I doubt that will hold true in Japan. Prepare for your electric bill to go up. A lot. I've heard of people's bills doubling.

[Salty]

In Canader land a property owner can refuse a smart meter but I doubt that will hold true in Japan. Prepare for your electric bill to go up. A lot. I've heard of people's bills doubling.

Why would the cost change?

[Doctor Stop]

Why would the cost change?

The include the cost of the tinfoil hat in the next bill.

[yanpa]

Smart meters are a ‘costly mistake’ that'll add BILLIONS to bills (UK)

[wagyl]

As far as concerns about radio frequency radiation go, do you have Wi-Fi? Do you go near convenience stores or fast food chains with Wi-Fi? And do you have a gas leak detector (which also communicates with a base station on a power pole near you by radio)? Are either of those a concern to you?

[Grumpy Gramps]

Why would the cost change?

Maybe the old trick to slow down the meter won't work any longer and you'd have to pay for what you actually use?

[Coligny]

Anyone have one of those `smart meters` installed yet? TEPCO will be replacing our `rotating disk` meter with a smart meter sometime later this year. Any concerns over privacy, RF radiation, etc.

Just hope it's not on the 2.4ghz band... It's becomming a fucking battlefield...

Also, aren't meters property of the house owner ?

In aichi meters and inbound fuse box are installed by third party then checked for conformity by an electric company inspector.

[wagyl]

Also, aren't meters property of the house owner ?

If it is read by a meter reader (or read "smartly" by radiomagic waves) it is the property of the Electric Company, and there will be a 電 on the bottom right of the ID plate. Subsidiary meters such as to a vending machine or separating a medical clinic from a residence, read by the householder, belong to the householder.
They also have an "exchange by" planned obsolescence date included on them, and you would have to buy a new meter if you were the owner.
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E9%9B%BB ... F%E8%A8%88

[Salty]

Why would the cost change?

Maybe the old trick to slow down the meter won't work any longer and you'd have to pay for what you actually use?

Which trick is that? I know of one.... just turn the meter on an angle, say 30 degrees off of verticle. I have seen it used at houses under construction where there is a legitimate reason for detaching it from the mounting base (ie - siding replacement).

[Salty]

As far as concerns about radio frequency radiation go, do you have Wi-Fi? Do you go near convenience stores or fast food chains with Wi-Fi? And do you have a gas leak detector (which also communicates with a base station on a power pole near you by radio)? Are either of those a concern to you?

I do use wifi, and personally have no concern over rf radiation - though this seems to be the main concern of some. Personally I would be more concerned over privacy - whether it can be used to transmit real-time information such as phone conversations, TV/internet usage details, etc., etc.

[Coligny]

Why would the cost change?

Maybe the old trick to slow down the meter won't work any longer and you'd have to pay for what you actually use?

Which trick is that? I know of one.... just turn the meter on an angle, say 30 degrees off of verticle. I have seen it used at houses under construction where there is a legitimate reason for detaching it from the mounting base (ie - siding replacement).

Strong magnet somewhere to slow down the rotation ?

[wagyl]

As far as concerns about radio frequency radiation go, do you have Wi-Fi? Do you go near convenience stores or fast food chains with Wi-Fi? And do you have a gas leak detector (which also communicates with a base station on a power pole near you by radio)? Are either of those a concern to you?

I do use wifi, and personally have no concern over rf radiation - though this seems to be the main concern of some. Personally I would be more concerned over privacy - whether it can be used to transmit real-time information such as phone conversations, TV/internet usage details, etc., etc.

If I want to listen in to your telephone conversations or your internet usage, I can think of a number of easier and more reliable ways than trying to reconstruct that from your instantaneous power usage. They already know that you have asked this question in a public forum! All future conversations between us should be on that bench out in the open in the park. My code word is "The birds fly east." Your answer is "Red Square in the early summer sparkles."

There has been one report about the fact that how light or dark the frame is on the video of a film or tv show can be a fingerprint, but that requires dynamic backlighting like in a plasma TV and knowing the fingerprint for every two second patch of every TV show to compare it to. They even try to suggest that this could tell whether you were watching an illegal copy of a film, but they do not explain in any way how. Basically, their main complaint is that the data of usage transmitted by one brand -- the only one they looked at -- of meter used in Germany is not encrypted. The biggest risk? Targetted advertising. I wonder if these researchers have a Facebook page... http://www.cnet.com/news/researchers-fi ... -tv-shows/ I suspect by your question that you were already aware of that report, which makes me wonder why you are asking us here.

Then again, the power companies have long known what you were watching on TV https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_pickup

More to the point, I go back to my first question. We know that the meter does not belong to you anyway. The power company replaces your meter. You do not want this. What do you do? Is the burden of providing your own power generation less than the risks that your Dukes of Hazzard habit is (with very small probability) revealed to anyone who doesn't already know?

You talk about "the concerns of some." Let that be their concerns. Do not take them upon yourself. And most of all, have some balance!

[Salty]

As far as concerns about radio frequency radiation go, do you have Wi-Fi? Do you go near convenience stores or fast food chains with Wi-Fi? And do you have a gas leak detector (which also communicates with a base station on a power pole near you by radio)? Are either of those a concern to you?

I do use wifi, and personally have no concern over rf radiation - though this seems to be the main concern of some. Personally I would be more concerned over privacy - whether it can be used to transmit real-time information such as phone conversations, TV/internet usage details, etc., etc.

If I want to listen in to your telephone conversations or your internet usage, I can think of a number of easier and more reliable ways than trying to reconstruct that from your instantaneous power usage. They already know that you have asked this question in a public forum! All future conversations between us should be on that bench out in the open in the park. My code word is "The birds fly east." Your answer is "Red Square in the early summer sparkles."

There has been one report about the fact that how light or dark the frame is on the video of a film or tv show can be a fingerprint, but that requires dynamic backlighting like in a plasma TV and knowing the fingerprint for every two second patch of every TV show to compare it to. They even try to suggest that this could tell whether you were watching an illegal copy of a film, but they do not explain in any way how. Basically, their main complaint is that the data of usage transmitted by one brand -- the only one they looked at -- of meter used in Germany is not encrypted. The biggest risk? Targetted advertising. I wonder if these researchers have a Facebook page... http://www.cnet.com/news/researchers-fi ... -tv-shows/ I suspect by your question that you were already aware of that report, which makes me wonder why you are asking us here.

Then again, the power companies have long known what you were watching on TV https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_pickup

More to the point, I go back to my first question. We know that the meter does not belong to you anyway. The power company replaces your meter. You do not want this. What do you do? Is the burden of providing your own power generation less than the risks that your Dukes of Hazzard habit is (with very small probability) revealed to anyone who doesn't already know?

You talk about "the concerns of some." Let that be their concerns. Do not take them upon yourself. And most of all, have some balance!

Thanks for those links - interesting. So far I haven`t uncovered a concern that would cause me to change anything.

EDIT: BTW – I wanted to thank you for your comprehensive response, and in particular for admonition on `who’s concern` is it anyway.

[chibaka]

If the meter does not belong to the homeowner, then it will not be connected to the homeowners network? So how will it be able to detect your smut educational downloads?

[yanpa]

If the meter does not belong to the homeowner, then it will not be connected to the homeowners network? So how will it be able to detect your smut educational downloads?

Presumably they will use some kind of mobile phone signal, like some vending machines do.

For the sake of argument, an upside as far as privacy goes: right now I can look out of the window any time I please and see exactly how much energy my neighbour is consuming. So could anyone standing on the street. With a smart meter that information leak would go away. Personally I gain nothing from the available information, but an interested party might, e.g. someone trying to establish patterns of minimal consumption indicating when no-one is home for burgulary, purposes of.

[chibaka]

For the sake of argument, an upside as far as privacy goes: right now I can look out of the window any time I please and see exactly how much energy my neighbour is consuming. So could anyone standing on the street. With a smart meter that information leak would go away. Personally I gain nothing from the available information, but an interested party might, e.g. someone trying to establish patterns of minimal consumption indicating when no-one is home for burgulary, purposes of.

A valid point, but the addition of a simple cover would prevent that. Meter reading lady would be pissed off though..

Maybe related but has anyone seen here a real time smart meter which monitors usage in the house by circuit? I know such toys are available in the real world, not sure about Japan.

[Yokohammer]

For the sake of argument, an upside as far as privacy goes: right now I can look out of the window any time I please and see exactly how much energy my neighbour is consuming. So could anyone standing on the street. With a smart meter that information leak would go away. Personally I gain nothing from the available information, but an interested party might, e.g. someone trying to establish patterns of minimal consumption indicating when no-one is home for burgulary, purposes of.

A valid point, but the addition of a simple cover would prevent that. Meter reading lady would be pissed off though..

Maybe related but has anyone seen here a real time smart meter which monitors usage in the house by circuit? I know such toys are available in the real world, not sure about Japan.

You can get watt meters that plug between an outlet and appliance(s).
Not sure about something that centrally monitors all circuits in the house though.

[Coligny]

Ebay/DX/banggood have induction whole house instant power meters.
Some are kits linkable to arduino/ethernet shields for interwabs access.

Edit few at bggd:
http://www.banggood.com/buy/Ac-meter/21 ... vQodrm0NRQ

[chibaka]

Ebay/DX/banggood have induction whole house instant power meters.
Some are kits linkable to arduino/ethernet shields for interwabs access.

Edit few at bggd:
http://www.banggood.com/buy/Ac-meter/21 ... vQodrm0NRQ

Banggood? Is that a pron site?

I saw before a system where you can monitor all the circuits from the fuse box to see where the power is being consumed most. Not a necessity but an interesting toy if not too expensive

[Coligny]

Chinese discount website. Honestly on of the best/cheapest/quickest and with customer service that actually cares...

[matsuki]

They just recently installed these in my apartment building...shall I post pics?

[Salty]

They just recently installed these in my apartment building...shall I post pics?

Nobody has come a knocking at your door yet?

[Coligny]

They just recently installed these in my apartment building...shall I post pics?

Nobody has come a knocking at your door yet?

Any sightings of noiseless black helicopters ? Predator drones ? Jeovah witness ? Pizza delivery guyz ?

[Salty]

Our meter comes this afternoon....

[Russell]

Our meter comes this afternoon....

I got a smart meter last week, but my other meter has not yet been replaced, because it is less than 10 years old (I have two electricity meters, because I live in a "2-generation house").

They explained that they will be able to read out the meter by driving by and scanning its wireless signal.

I can read out my electricity use myself also wirelessly. They gave me a paper with explanation, but did not read it yet. That service may require some additional fee.

[kurogane]

A word of warning: we had smart meters installed in my rented apartment complex in Canada a few months after I had moved in. I noticed that my average monthly hydro charge on a large-ish 1 bedroom had skyrocketed so I phoned the power company. Their explanation was simple and clear: it was my fault for using too much power, because the meters were infallible. I went from paying the equivalent of about 6000 yen per month to about 22,000 yen per month for my power bill. Much later I heard from a neighbour that they had cross wired some of the meters and he had been charged for the much larger apartment below him, so when I was preparing to move out last spring I asked them to check to see my account was being charged for the meter on my apartment. It took several phone calls to get them to promise to do so, and then I moved out. When I got back to Canada from Japan I had a $4000 (400,000 yen) CAD refund waiting on my account. They had listed my meter as the one for the 3-4 bedroom apartment below me. They explained they couldn't offer interest on the refunded amount because I had failed in my duty to alert them of discrepancies by only phoning them twice a month.

But you guys are in Japan, so the native efficiency should ensure you don't have to go through that. They're very advanced technologically, you know.