Getting ripped off by airlines

[Russell]

Thinking of going to Holland with the family for Xmess and New Year, and trying to reserve tickets online.

Result: price of the same ticket changes depending on the number of people that travel.

1 person cheapest
4 persons more expensive
2 persons even more expensive

Being a Dutchman, I am considering buying all 4 tickets individually.

Any experiences with that? What should I be careful with?

[yanpa]

As a Dutchman I assume you'd prefer a flat fare? I'll get my coat.

If buying individually, that could (I imagine) make it trickier to book seats together.

[wagyl]

Not a positive thing to say but it must be said: tickets for Christmas New Year should have been bought at least a month ago.

Something slightly more positive: although there is no evidence that airlines change prices depending on the IP address of the customer, there is evidence that they change prices depending on the interest shown by customers in a particular flight. In effect, your various requests already will be registered by the airline as a fairly high demand. Making four actual purchases, I would not be surprised if the price you pay for the fourth ticket is higher than the price you pay for the first. Whether the overall amount would exceed the price if you had bought four at once, I have no idea.

Flights to Europe are compared by a fare aggregator http://www.momondo.nl/?simigvis=null&cu ... &plr=false for version in Dutch
Otherwise, I use http://www.kayak.com/flights

The airline will probably charge a credit card fee for each transaction. There is a slight risk that this will be higher than if you had made this just one transaction. I say slight, because far too many airlines charge the credit card fee for each passenger and each leg anyway.

[Wage Slave]

Finnair don't charge a credit card fee if you use a Japanese card and book through their Japanese sub-site and they are good. Just about the best punctuality record in the business and nicely timed connecting flights . Helsinki is a gem of a little airport and from Nagoya at least they are no more expensive than Lufthansa or Air France. Via Frankfurt or CDG - The horrors!

But yeah, I booked during a promotion in October.

[Coligny]

I did mah first trip with the Luftwaffetanza, Paris (Orly ?) To sumwhere in Germany , almost certainly Frankfurt now that I checked that it was not Hamburg, then Nagoya komaki... And the heat... The humidity, should have turned back immediately...

Damn, memory fading... Can just remember the Tortie going berserk midflight... She didn't sleep 1 second out of 14h despite double dose of sleepy pillz... Still haven't figured where she got the matchsticks to hold her eyes open...

[Russell]

Thanks guys.

Just booked my flights.

Forgot for a moment that I am a Dutchman, and booked all 4 passengers together for a somewhat higher price. I got myself direct flights against a reasonable price. Problem is that on the way back there are no free seats together in a block (=near to each other), only scattered around in the cabin. The only blocks of seats that are still available are those for which you have to pay additionally. Aren't airlines kind of obliged to seat families together? This is not a discount airline.

[wagyl]

Thanks guys.

Just booked my flights.

Forgot for a moment that I am a Dutchman, and booked all 4 passengers together for a somewhat higher price.

Damn. There goes one chance for you to experiment to see if the price increased. You probably made the right, and Dutch, decision, however.

Aren't airlines kind of obliged to seat families together? This is not a discount airline.

Airlines, and especially commercially pragmatic Dutch (-French conglomerate) airlines, will try to seat you together if they can, but they are not obliged to. If you want to be certain to seat your family together, in fact, you are obliged to book while there are still many vacancies, especially in peak travel periods (and this is a peak travel time for both Christian culture countries and for Japan). My guess is that the first flight where they can provide you with four seats together will be departing on 12 January. Does that fit Sir's travel plans? (Planes flying through the night of 31 December often have many vacant seats too)

Bon voyage. It sounds like you have timed your trip to boycott Zwarte Piet, when in fact he needs all of your support.

[Russell]

Thanks guys.

Just booked my flights.

Forgot for a moment that I am a Dutchman, and booked all 4 passengers together for a somewhat higher price.

Damn. There goes one chance for you to experiment to see if the price increased. You probably made the right, and Dutch, decision, however.

Actually, I experimented a bit, and they do increase the price for the second ticket. I checked this by starting the ticket purchasing procedure for the first ticket, and, before completing it, search for the price of the second ticket. That did increase indeed, even if I used a different computer. I did not check what happened if I was on a different wireless network; that might have worked, but I was too lazy to try.

Aren't airlines kind of obliged to seat families together? This is not a discount airline.

Airlines, and especially commercially pragmatic Dutch (-French conglomerate) airlines, will try to seat you together if they can, but they are not obliged to. If you want to be certain to seat your family together, in fact, you are obliged to book while there are still many vacancies, especially in peak travel periods (and this is a peak travel time for both Christian culture countries and for Japan). My guess is that the first flight where they can provide you with four seats together will be departing on 12 January. Does that fit Sir's travel plans? (Planes flying through the night of 31 December often have many vacant seats too)

Nope, that does not fit Sir Russell's plans. I will leave just before Xmess and return a few days after New Year. That is peak time, I assume. Actually, I was surprised there were still vacancies, but maybe it has something to do with those attacks in Paris. Air France had even more vacancies, but I prefer direct flights. Price was not too bad either: around 125,000 Yen per person all included. Seems that KLM-Air France has a lot of competition from Qatar Airways and Emirates, but those are not my favorites in the current situation. Turkish Airways were very cheap, but I politely refrain from that one too.

I am pissed off, though, that KLM charged me 4 times the credit card fee for 4 persons.

Bon voyage. It sounds like you have timed your trip to boycott Zwarte Piet, when in fact he needs all of your support.

Actually, Zwarte Piet was in Osaka yesterday, so I did not boycott him. No way he will disappear from Dutch culture.

Thanks for the good travel wishes!

[yanpa]

Have a good trip, I trust you've trained any accompanying juveniles to cause maximum in-flight experience enhancement for the other passengers?

Flying Finnair here, about as far away from hot sand-infested places as one can get.

[chibaka]

We went to the UK via Amsterdam last month, flew KLM booked with expedia. I didn't check the breakdown at the time, but there was a card fee, I just noticed. Didn't notice any shenanigans with 1 or 2 ticket pricing, but didn't think about it.

[Coligny]

Have a good trip, I trust you've trained any accompanying juveniles to cause maximum in-flight experience enhancement for the other passengers?

Flying Finnair here, about as far away from hot sand-infested places as one can get.

Talking aboot Hawai or Raqqah ?

Cause... We sorta got a war to win ya know...

[Russell]

Have a good trip, I trust you've trained any accompanying juveniles to cause maximum in-flight experience enhancement for the other passengers?

Flying Finnair here, about as far away from hot sand-infested places as one can get.

My juveniles are already teenagers and fully potty-trained.

Finnair was an alternative, but their price was about the same for a flight leaving one day earlier and returning one day later. I flew them once in the past, and had no problems. Finns know how to organize things.

[Coligny]

Need a cat sitter ?

[wagyl]

Actually, I experimented a bit, and they do increase the price for the second ticket. I checked this by starting the ticket purchasing procedure for the first ticket, and, before completing it, search for the price of the second ticket. That did increase indeed, even if I used a different computer. I did not check what happened if I was on a different wireless network; that might have worked, but I was too lazy to try.

Interesting. People with even more time on their hands than you or me (believe me, they exist) report that this phenomenon is not dependent on your internet connection, but on the number of requests for seats being made globally, i.e. global demand. It makes no difference if you try using a different wi-fi network.

I am pissed off, though, that KLM charged me 4 times the credit card fee for 4 persons.

This is very common. I usually get a credit card fee per passenger per flight leg, so if it not a direct flight (and in my case it never is) that is four credit card fee charges for each passenger for a return flight, even though it is one transaction. The guy who proposed that scheme had very pendulous testicles.

One of the features I like about the airfare aggregator sites I linked above are that they make you aware of many different options, both in route, and in choice of booking agent, whether direct with the airline or through a travel site. If, like me, you have spent more than enough of your life in transit lounges, you can also filter results by length of time in transit or as to which airports you are prepared to transit through. You can of course filter by airline or by airline alliance. Some of those sites even advise of hacking fares, i.e. two one way fares with different airlines rather than a return ticket. On some routes, if you are flexible with dates they can help you find a cheaper day to fly too. Also, you can search tor Narita and Haneda together, including depart Haneda return Narita, for example.

[Wage Slave]

but I prefer direct flights. Price was not too bad either: around 125,000 Yen per person all included.

Couldn't agree more - a direct flight is a big plus - unfortunately no such thing to London from my airport. And your flight will be over Siberia rather than the old, long route through the sandpit. Far better and far quicker. How anyone could consider an airport a destination in itself is totally beyond me. Shopping indeed.I have zero interest in spending extended amounts of time at any airport, Dubai included.

You've done well on price considering the timing. I didn't do all that much better with similiar departure, booking in October and with a promotion and flying back on New Years eve - as if I care I'll be somewhere over Siberia when it turns midnight.

Looks like quite a few of us heading back to europe this Christmas.

[Coligny]

can submit shopping list ?... heard AK47s are dirt cheap these days...

[yanpa]

Actually, I experimented a bit, and they do increase the price for the second ticket. I checked this by starting the ticket purchasing procedure for the first ticket, and, before completing it, search for the price of the second ticket. That did increase indeed, even if I used a different computer. I did not check what happened if I was on a different wireless network; that might have worked, but I was too lazy to try.

Interesting. People with even more time on their hands than you or me (believe me, they exist) report that this phenomenon is not dependent on your internet connection, but on the number of requests for seats being made globally, i.e. global demand. It makes no difference if you try using a different wi-fi network.

I had that once on a low-cost carrier trying to book for two people. I can't remember the exact details but I was able to establish (with the aid of a "clean" connection) that the first booking was evidently the last available seat in the lower price band and any subsequent seats were more expensive).

Airline booking is a black art, there are whole forae devoted to it (full of things like "I was able to redeem my Albatross Club points to book a reverse saldo segment in Y with upgrade to J roundtripping through Vladivostock as I've got Light Teal status with Air Dodo who have a mile-match award on all OneAlliance flights out of Walmartville International on alternate Tuesdays if I've guested fewer than 3 Flamingo or greater passengers into a airside Sickbag lounge over the preceding 6 months").

[wagyl]

Damn. I knew I was being cheeky when I brought that fourth Scarlet Flamingo with Emerald Studded Gold Periorbital Ring friend into the lounge with me.

[inflames]

Airline tickets are priced into buckets, and within those there are smaller breakdowns. It is entirely possible (especially now) that there was only one ticket left in that bucket. Doing stuff like changing the price requires early 2000s technology whereas most airline reservation systems are stuck using late 1960s technology (with programming languages seldom known). And it's not just the Japanese airlines.

Booking to go back to the US or Canada results in no fee, thank goodness. Though United doesn't have their SFO-KIX flight every day in the winter, so I have to fly Air Cantada to get home (any routing through Narita wouldn't work because ANA wants you to leave at 2:00, then spend 3 hours sitting around in Narita).

[Russell]

Worst day to buy a plane ticket is Friday, reveals study

The worst day to buy a plane ticket is a Friday, according to analysis of worldwide ticket prices.

Flight tickets bought on Fridays are 13% more expensive than those on Sunday.

The reason behind the spike in ticket prices is believed to be that those taking holiday tend to book discount trips on weekends, while those flying for business purposes tend to book at the end of the working week.

Airlines Reporting Corporation told The Wall Street Journal that flights within Europe should plan to buy their tickets 140 days in advance if they wish to get the cheapest ticket, while those purchasing domestic flights within the US can buy theirs 57 days in advance.

Rick Seaney, chief executive for FareCompare, told the newspaper that it is possible to “buy too early”.

Airlines will not start to actively manage the price of fares until about five or six months in advance for international trips, meaning buying any time before then could result in an increased price.

More

[wuchan]

It's a numbers game. Back a travel agent into a corner and you will magically get 50% off. Fucking one until they cum gets the same result.

[Russell]

It's a numbers game. Back a travel agent into a corner and you will magically get 50% off. Fucking one until they cum gets the same result.

I suppose I'll have to try that next time I book the tickets for my family...

[Coligny]

It's a numbers game. Back a travel agent into a corner and you will magically get 50% off. Fucking one until they cum gets the same result.

I suppose I'll have to try that next time I book the tickets for my family...

Give a heads up so I can bring a film crew...

[Russell]

Made it to the Netherworld.

There were quite a few cancellations apparently, so we ended up sitting in four consecutive rows of three seats for the four of us.

A stewardess tried to convince members of a big group of male high school students to take possession of one of the rows before we took it, but they refused, presumably because they did not want to stand out from their peers. Yeah!!!

Never had such a great flight, even though there was one moron on the cabin crew who was assigned our section. I wonder who hired this guy. Had all the personal characteristics of the anti-steward: impatient, unfriendly, boorish, ugly old fart.

But there you have it: not such a bad deal after all. Hoping for a similar flight home.

[matsuki]

The crew on my flight...well, I went back to their hotel afterwards...so no complaints there. Talk about afutaasaabisu! The nurse next to me was more than happy to get dragged out shopping...errr battling our way through the local malls and let me unwrap her early. Next flight, I'm going for a hat trick!

There was a bitchy ass old lady on the flight though...one of the male flight attendants asked if he could help her and tried to grab her ticket while asking for her seat number....he got her bag right in his face along with "Be useful and carry my bag! I know how to count!"

[Coligny]

The crew on my flight...well, I went back to their hotel afterwards...so no complaints there. Talk about afutaasaabisu! The nurse next to me was more than happy to get dragged out shopping...errr battling our way through the local malls and let me unwrap her early. Next flight, I'm going for a hat trick!

There was a bitchy ass old lady on the flight though...one of the male flight attendants asked if he could help her and tried to grab her ticket while asking for her seat number....he got her bag right in his face along with "Be useful and carry my bag! I know how to count!"

I thought the last navajo code talker was dead...

[Wage Slave]

Make it to pork pie land too. Our plane to Europe was half empty and the airport was very quiet. Lots of cancellations. Not complaining.

Deep in jetlag though.

[matsuki]

I thought the last navajo code talker was dead...

LIL peyote and some time in the wild and I found my new spirit animal is the wild manko. (though tamed manko is acceptable)

[Russell]

I thought the last navajo code talker was dead...

LIL peyote and some time in the wild and I found my new spirit animal is the wild manko. (though tamed manko is acceptable)

I thought the manko" was some kind of juicy fruit?

[kurogane]

Have a nice holiday at home flyjins, and let's hope the trip home is as good.