12 dead in Paris shooting

[kagemusha]

Israel PM admits forces operating in war-hit Syria

Hardly surprising. The Israeli AF has openly attacked weapon convoys on many occasions so I guess SF activity inside Syria to gather info and support air-strikes shouldn't surprise anyone.

[Russell]

Britain voted to join the bombing against ISIS. Corbyn was against. History will likely prove him right, since there are no clear military goals.

Fortunately, the Netherlands is much more reluctant to participate.

[Coligny]

Disrupting the fuel trade with Turquey. Thus cutting their funding.
Destroying their training camps stopping their takeover of Sirya.

[Russell]

Disrupting the fuel trade with Turquey. Thus cutting their funding.
Destroying their training camps stopping their takeover of Sirya.

That sounds like a Bush-Cheney war plan...

'Britain is on the verge of entering into a long war in Syria based on wishful thinking and poor information...'

Britain is on the verge of entering a conflict in Syria in which its political and military strategy is based on wishful thinking and poor information. British air strikes in Syria will be too few to make much difference to Isis, but are important because they signal Britain’s entry into what may be a long war.

In one crucial respect, David Cameron’s approach is similar to that which saw Britain fight two small but unsuccessful wars in Iraq and Afghanistan since 2003, in both cases without an effective local partner on the ground. Similarly in Syria, Britain will be at the mercy of events which are being shaped by the numerous other players in the conflict, all of whom have their own highly contradictory agendas.

Much of the debate around the feasibility of the British strategy has focused on Mr Cameron’s statement that we do indeed have a partner, of whose existence few were previously aware. He said that there are 70,000 “Syrian opposition fighters on the ground who do not belong to extremist groups”. The impression given is that there is a “third force” in Syria which will provide a powerful ally for the US, France and Britain.

This would be very convenient but, unfortunately, its existence is very debatable. “The notion that there are 70,000 moderate fighters is an attempt to show that you can fight Isis and [President Bashar al] Assad at the same time,” says Professor Joshua Landis, the director of the Centre for Middle East Studies at the University of Oklahoma and an expert on Syrian politics. But he is dismissive of the idea that such a potential army exists, though he says there might be 70,000 Syrians with a gun who are fighting for their local clan, tribe, warlord or village. “The problem is that they hate the village down the road just as much they hate Isis and Assad,” he said.

The armed opposition to President Assad is dominated by Isis, the al-Qaeda affiliate Jabhat al-Nusra and the ideologically similar Ahrar al-Sham. Some of the smaller groups, once estimated by the CIA to number 1,500, might be labelled as moderate, but only operate under license from the extreme jihadists. Aymenn al-Tamimi, a fellow at the Middle East Forum and an authority on the Syrian armed opposition, says that these groups commonly exaggerate their numbers, are very fragmented and have failed to unite, despite years of war.

[...]

He warns that they pretend to the outside world that they are more moderate than they really are, speaking of “the equality of all Syrians before the law” when they are outside Syria or communicating with people who have never been to the country, but express “hatred for Shia and Allawites” on all other occasions.

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[Samurai_Jerk]

Disrupting the fuel trade with Turquey. Thus cutting their funding.
Destroying their training camps stopping their takeover of Sirya.

You really are sucking that RT dick hard.

[Coligny]

Disrupting the fuel trade with Turquey. Thus cutting their funding.
Destroying their training camps stopping their takeover of Syria.

You really are sucking that RT dick hard.

anything proving them wrong on these few points ?

cause last article I saw from the herald tribune was stating that Russia was pissed at France for bombing isis controlled oil facilities in Syria. while in fact it's Russian planes that are bombing the shit of of them. So as far as poprargranda goes... I'm not sure RT is the worse...

[Samurai_Jerk]

Disrupting the fuel trade with Turquey. Thus cutting their funding.
Destroying their training camps stopping their takeover of Syria.

You really are sucking that RT dick hard.

anything proving them wrong on these few points ?

cause last article I saw from the herald tribune was stating that Russia was pissed at France for bombing isis controlled oil facilities in Syria. while in fact it's Russian planes that are bombing the shit of of them. So as far as poprargranda goes... I'm not sure RT is the worse...

A lot left-wing fruitcakes like yourself don't look at RT with the same critical eye they look at all other media. The love affair with Putin is weird too. Even if you're dumb enough to believe the Soviet Union was a socialist paradise, know it doesn't exist anymore, right? And regardless Putin is definitely not a champion of progressive values.

[Coligny]

Ok, so you got nothing...

[Wage Slave]

I don't see this as a left/right difference of opinion. I've said all along Daesh are downright evil and need to be destroyed. And that's that - It's a moral issue as much as anything. The UK should do its fair share along with its allies.

The west also urgently needs to change its entire policy in the Middle East. In the longer term, that's where peace and security will flow from. Not military action. Not installing and maintaining corrupt and dictatorial puppetish leaders. Not taking more land, building more fences and keeping people poor, repressed and powerless.

But for the here and now and as a matter of moral urgency, Daesh need to be destroyed along with their so called Caliphate.

[Samurai_Jerk]

I don't see this as a left/right difference of opinion. I've said all along Daesh are downright evil and need to be destroyed. And that's that - It's a moral issue as much as anything. The UK should do its fair share along with its allies.

The west also urgently needs to change its entire policy in the Middle East. In the longer term, that's where peace and security will flow from. Not military action. Not installing and maintaining corrupt and dictatorial puppetish leaders. Not taking more land, building more fences and keeping people poor, repressed and powerless.

But for the here and now and as a matter of moral urgency, Daesh need to be destroyed along with their so called Caliphate.

Agreed and that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the way the loony left has gone gaga for Putin. It's very strange.

Ok, so you got nothing...

I wasn't making any claims beyond you being gay for Putin and RT which you've repeatedly demonstrated.

[Coligny]

Sooo, thanks for stating the obvious... I guess...

image.jpeg

You forgot to say spastic though...

[Samurai_Jerk]

Russell already posted about this here but with one of the suspect having been IDed it looks like the story might belong in this thread.

Suspect ID'd in San Bernardino Massacre as Syed Farook

Law enforcement officials have identified Syed Farook as one of the suspected shooters who attacked a center for the disabled in San Bernardino, California, according to NBC News. The Daily Beast has learned that the police have just executed a search warrant at a Redlands, California address—an address that belongs to the Farook family, according to public records.

Police pursued a car leaving from the Redlands address, Chief Jarrod Baraugan said at a Wednesday evening press conference. A male and female suspect were inside the car, and both of them have been killed. Both of the suspects were armed with assault rifles and handguns, Baraugan said. Police have apprehended a third man, but have not identified his relation to the attacks yet.

[Grumpy Gramps]

Maybe it's just time for the EU to kick the Brits out and join the Russian Federation.

[Samurai_Jerk]

And the second dead suspect has been identified.

Tashfeen Malik: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know

Tashfeen Malik was killed by police along with Syed Farook after the Inland Regional Center shooting in San Bernardino, California, on December 2. She was 27 years old. Authorities have not commented on her nationality but have reiterated that Syed Farook was a U.S. citizen. His brother-in-law Farhan Khan said at a press conference that he believed Farook had been born in the U.S.

The two suspects were killed in a hail of police gunfire on a residential street in San Bernardino just a few hours after they opened fire at a Christmas party in the town. The party was being thrown for the county health department, where Syed Farook had been employed. In total, 14 people innocent people were killed at the party with another 17 injured. Cops had tracked them to a home in Redlands, some 15 minutes from San Bernardino, and then pursued them in a high-speed chase when they tried to escape.

[matsuki]

The couple had a baby who is six months old. That child was in the care of family at the time of the attack and remains there. That’s according to the Council of American Islamic Relation executive director Hussam Ayloush who spoke at a press conference in the aftermath of the shooting. An online baby registry for Malik shows the baby was due on May 17, 2015, in Riverside, California.

Fuuuuuuu

[kagemusha]

If indeed the attack in Cali was done by Islamist fuckheads the life of many normal descent Muslims in the U.S. has just changed dramatically and not for the best.

Agreeing with something published in The Independent happens to me once in 200 years (don't ask), I have to reset my year count.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/nicolas-henin-the-man-who-was-held-captive-by-isis-for-10-months-says-how-they-can-be-defeated-a6757336.html
I do think SF should keep making the fuckers life hard and smelly.

[Samurai_Jerk]

It seems this started with an argument an office holiday party so if the guy who shot up his workplace just happened to be Muslim, I wouldn't assume anything given that it happened in America. However, the fact that he and his wife allegedly did it together with one other person makes me think this is probably more than just a dude going postal. We shall see though.

[matsuki]

It seems this started with an argument an office holiday party so if the guy who shot up his workplace just happened to be Muslim, I wouldn't assume anything given that it happened in America. However, the fact that he and his wife allegedly did it together with one other person makes me think this is probably more than just a dude going postal. We shall see though.

They were a little too prepared for it all to be over an office holiday party spat....just nuts that his wife was with him and participating as well. (and the kiddo...WTF?)

[Coligny]

[Wage Slave]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/nicolas-henin-the-man-who-was-held-captive-by-isis-for-10-months-says-how-they-can-be-defeated-a6757336.html

I get that this is a thoroughly decent and principled man but I'm sorry that makes no sense at all. Give Daesh the peace and quiet of a no fly zone and their support will melt away. As if, in a month of Sundays and a blue moon. Their power does not flow from the people's support. It flows from weapons in the hands of mercenaries and a willingness to use them in barbaric fashion against anyone who dares cross them for an instant. And as if they, or any like them, ever cared a toss about how many refugees they create. All the more property to be seized and given to supporters and all the more headaches and cost for your neighbours who are almost always yet another enemy.

That said of course bombing in itself won't destroy them. It will weaken them but to destroy them someone will have to go and do the job on the ground. Who that should be is a difficult question - but someone has to do it. And soon.

[kagemusha]

That's not really shocking, the ugly midget has been playing it both ways for 5 years now.
But the fact that western European governments turned a blind eye for over a year knowing they are funding ISIS by buying this oil from Turkey is double standards and hypocrisy in a nutsack.

[Takechanpoo]

its pretty ironical that at least in merica its a matter of time that the death toll of shooting rampage by merican will exceed the one of muslims terrorist attacks. if so, why dont washinton carpet-bomb their own nationals?

[matsuki]

its pretty ironical that at least in merica its a matter of time that the death toll of shooting rampage by merican will exceed the one of muslims terrorist attacks.

It probably already does

[legion]

That said of course bombing in itself won't destroy them. It will weaken them but to destroy them someone will have to go and do the job on the ground. Who that should be is a difficult question - but someone has to do it. And soon.

That's the crunch and that's why bombing is stupid. Nobody has the resources to put in enough troops to hold the place down, and putting them in just gives ISIS more targets. It'll be Iraq all over again, tens of thousands of bystanders killed, fueling another generation of ISIS recruits.

Henin is on the right tracks, you can't have peace without tolerance, ISIS thrives on intolerance. I think his argument that the Paris attacks were intended to harden attitudes against refugees is persuasive.

I don't think Cameron is the source of this policy, I think he is a puppet.

Once, I remember, we met a warship anchored off the coast. There was no settlement visible, but the ship was firing its guns into the forest. Apparently the French were fighting some war near there. The boat’s flag hung limp like a rag while the hull, with guns sticking out over it, rose gently and fell on the greasy, slimy waves. The ship was a tiny speck firing away into a continent. It was pointless and impossible to understand. The guns would pop, a small flame would appear from their barrels, a little white smoke would puff out, and nothing would happen. Nothing could happen. It was insane, and it only seemed more insane when someone swore to me that there was a camp of natives (or ‘enemies,’ as he called them) hidden in the jungle.

Joseph Conrad

[Wage Slave]

But the fact that western European governments turned a blind eye for over a year knowing they are funding ISIS by buying this oil from Turkey is double standards and hypocrisy in a nutsack.

European governments don't buy oil. Oil traders, oil companies and refiners do. But that aside, what evidence do you have that European traders are buying oil from Turkey with the knowledge that it is from Daesh? And what evidence do you have that governments are turning a blind eye? And what governments specifically are you talking about? Or is it all 20 odd of them?

[Samurai_Jerk]

Sooo, thanks for stating the obvious... I guess...

image.jpeg

You forgot to say spastic though...

So why the love affair with a fascist from people on the left? I get why some Neocons have a hard-on for him but not the far left.

[Wage Slave]

Nobody has the resources to put in enough troops to hold the place down,

The resources exist many times over to roll up Daesh in a matter of a few weeks. And the resources exist many times over to hold the place down. What is in far shorter supply is the will to do it just because it's the right thing to do.

If, and the way things are going, when, it happens at least this time (assuming Trump doesn't have a say) the restructuring will not be predicated on the ideology that all government is bad for everyone, and corrupt businessmen gangster types are good for everyone as was the case in Iraq. L Paul Bremer III and his mentor Kissinger, have a lot to answer for. Dismantling the Iraqi state on idealogical/strategic grounds and handing power to a clutch of totally corrupt, self serving gangsters and their gangs was what really did it for Iraq. Their gangs, like most mercenaries turned out to be hopeless fighters when it mattered and hence Daesh were able to seize a great chunk of the country.

[Russell]

Nobody has the resources to put in enough troops to hold the place down,

The resources exist many times over to roll up Daesh in a matter of a few weeks. And the resources exist many times over to hold the place down. What is in far shorter supply is the will to do it just because it's the right thing to do.

If, and the way things are going, when, it happens at least this time (assuming Trump doesn't have a say) the restructuring will not be predicated on the ideology that all government is bad for everyone, and corrupt businessmen gangster types are good for everyone as was the case in Iraq. L Paul Bremer III and his mentor Kissinger, have a lot to answer for. Dismantling the Iraqi state on idealogical/strategic grounds and handing power to a clutch of totally corrupt, self serving gangsters and their gangs was what really did it for Iraq. Their gangs, like most mercenaries turned out to be hopeless fighters when it mattered and hence Daesh were able to seize a great chunk of the country.

Yep, and guess why that was?

Because a large part of Daesh consisted of those 400,000 Sunni militaries that were put out of a job by Bremer et al.

So, there you have it, they are hardened fighters, with lots of military knowledge and experience. No wonder that Shia army didn't have a chance.

Now, what are we gonna do? Kill them all? Wouldn't it be easier to nuke the whole place?

[Wage Slave]

Because a large part of Daesh consisted of those 400,000 Sunni militaries that were put out of a job by Bremer et al.

So, there you have it, they are hardened fighters, with lots of military knowledge and experience. No wonder that Shia army didn't have a chance.

Now, what are we gonna do? Kill them all? Wouldn't it be easier to nuke the whole place?

Well, the coalition's forces in Iraq didn't have too many problems rolling them up so I find it hard to believe that they have suddenly become a professional and well disciplined army now. But yeah, you're right - why was so much given to the Shia? It's almost as though someone didn't really want Iraq to be successful. Far better for the security of the region if it stays weak, divided and poor - except for the few trusted puppets and their gangs of course.

We could nuke the whole place of course but moral questions aside, what a waste.

[Russell]

Because a large part of Daesh consisted of those 400,000 Sunni militaries that were put out of a job by Bremer et al.

So, there you have it, they are hardened fighters, with lots of military knowledge and experience. No wonder that Shia army didn't have a chance.

Now, what are we gonna do? Kill them all? Wouldn't it be easier to nuke the whole place?

Well, the coalition's forces in Iraq didn't have too many problems rolling them up so I find it hard to believe that they have suddenly become a professional and well disciplined army now. But yeah, you're right - why was so much given to the Shia? It's almost as though someone didn't really want Iraq to be successful. Far better for the security of the region if it stays weak, divided and poor - except for the few trusted puppets and their gangs of course.

We could nuke the whole place of course but moral questions aside, what a waste.

I made the nuke comment with some irony intended.

But what I really want to emphasize is that it is better to think through what the end result should be.

Just bombing the fuck out of them will be unlikely to result in a better situation if a political solution for Iraq and Syria remains unclear.

Personally, I think it is time to divide Iraq into separate states according to ethnic-religious lines, and give every group the responsibility to defends its own land even if it means they call in forces from other nations, such as Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc. Pretty much hands-off for the West, but imagine that, recruiting nations in the region to do the fighting.

Oh, BTW, that is what Bernie Sanders is actually proposing...