The Sixth Taste

[Mike Oxlong]

[SIZE="4"]The Japanese define taste again[/SIZE]

[floatl][/floatl]Now that umami, the indescribable flavor associated with yumminess in foods like soy sauce and cheese, has been declared the fifth taste, chefs are moving on to kokumi, a taste that is often described as richness or "mothfulness."

Kokumi is a non-tasting food or flavoring that, when combined with other foods, enhances "sweet, salty, and umami tastes" according to Japanese researchers at Ajinomoto, a Japanese seasonings and food product company, that published their findings in the November 2009 and January 2010 editions of the Journal of Biological Chemistry.

It seems as though kokumi could be best described as a sensation, as the authors of the study explain your tongue has calcium receptors that sense kokumi and boost your other taste perceptions.

According to the South China Morning Post news outlet, "Givaudan flavourists, food flavour scientists and in-house chefs were in Hong Kong this month for the company's biennial Chefs' Council, held at the Hospitality Industry Training and Development Centre in Pok Fu Lam."

The company explained on its site that the event is designed to facilitate "collaborat[ing] and shar[ing] knowledge with Givaudan's own chefs - to inspire forward-thinking ideas, profile targets and customer concepts for ... Kokumi."

They continue to explain that kokumi can be created by "slow cooking stocks from bone or meat and stews, ... curing and drying, ...roasting, searing, confit and braising."

The blog Food & Think of the online magazine Smithsonian.com highlights that "calcium, protamine (found in milt, or fish sperm, which is eaten in Japan and Russia), L-histidine (an amino acid) and glutathione (found in yeast extract)" are all flavorless food compounds that can be described as kokumi.

[McTojo]

Sake aficionados have being throwing around this term for a number of years. Can't believe gourmet philistines are just now discovering this taste.

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

Well, wadda you...I'd always thought kokumi was the taste you got when giving a BJ...

[Tsuru]

So is it?

[Ketou]

Umami is all bullshit. It is just the neuroexcitotoxin MSG. This is in almost all processed foods and has been linked to all sorts of neurological problems.

One article on it here.

[Doctor Stop]

I've just decided that I'm going to make up a new taste and call it deliciousness.

There, I've just done it.

Deliciousness can be created by preparing foods skillfully, although it may also occur in some foods naturally. The human tongue has millions of tiny receptors on it that sense deliciousness and that boosts your other taste perceptions.

You don't have to be a flavor scientist to make up this shit.

[McTojo]

Umami is all bullshit. It is just the neuroexcitotoxin MSG. This is in almost all processed foods and has been linked to all sorts of neurological problems.

One article on it here.

You're pretty fucking stupid for a %"#%. Umami does not exist in all food. Do you believe everything you read. Maybe the crap you eat is full of processed shit, but don't go spewing your pseudo-intellectual crap about how this and that is BS.

[IparryU]

I've just decided that I'm going to make up a new taste and call it deliciousness.

There, I've just done it.

Deliciousness can be created by preparing foods skillfully, although it may also occur in some foods naturally. The human tongue has millions of tiny receptors on it that sense deliciousness and that boosts your other taste perceptions.

You don't have to be a flavor scientist to make up this shit.

now you will win the nobel prize and they will show a picture of SJ instead of you and the media will deeply apologize to you later.

congratz

[AML]

All i got from that article is "fish sperm" and that Jps and Russians eat it.

[6810]

Umami is all bullshit. It is just the neuroexcitotoxin MSG. This is in almost all processed foods and has been linked to all sorts of neurological problems.

One article on it here.

Blah-fucking-blah.

MSG or else other glutamic acid derivatives are in virtually all processed food. If the health effects were so bad, we'd all be dead by now.

Also, if you knew anything about food preparation you'd know that the various amino acids present in proteins actually constitute the savouriness of various foods. That's why a meat or fish based stock has more "punch" than a vege based counterpart (unless some of those veges have been fermented to break down various constituent parts into amino acids - hey, vegemite itself and all forms of hydrolysed vege protein are all essentially MSG analogs...).

As for umami being another taste, that shit is old news and is totally cooked up by the food industry. That said, amino acids do contribute to taste, and IMO the whole excito-toxin stuff is bullshit. That's why ramen tastes good after drinking, cos you're glutamatic acid levels are depleted etc.

[Mike Oxlong]

How MSG Got A Bad Rap: Flawed Science And Xenophobia

...That MSG isn’t the poison we’ve made it out to be has been well-established. News stories are written regularly about the lack of evidence tying MSG to negative health effects. (Read here and here, for example. Or here, here, here, here and here.) Still, Yelp reviews of Chinese restaurants tell tales of racing hearts, sleepless nights and tingling limbs from dishes “laden with MSG.” Even when the science is clear, it takes a lot to overwrite a stigma, especially when that stigma is about more than just food.

Since its discovery in the early 1900s, MSG has been synonymous with delicious. When added to foods, it increases umami, which has been considered the fifth taste since the early 2000s (alongside sweet, sour, salty and bitter1) and varyingly translates from Japanese as “tasty,” “scrumptiousness,” “deliciousness” or “savory.” Umami is the full-bodied, savory taste found in a wide variety of foods, such as parmesan and mushrooms, as well as in most meat. MSG is its crystallized manifestation.

Kikunae Ikeda, a Japanese chemist, discovered the compound in 1907 while investigating a common quality he’d noticed in foods like asparagus, tomatoes and the soup broth his wife made with seaweed. He determined that glutamate, the ionic form of glutamic acid, was responsible for umami. He then figured out how to synthesize the molecule by extracting glutamate from seaweed and mixing it with water and table salt to stabilize the compound. Ikeda patented the finished product, and it became one of Japanese food science’s greatest commercial successes. Today, the crystallized seasoning, frequently made from beets and corn, is known as MSG in the U.S. but is often called by the name Ikeda first gave it — “Aji no Moto,” or Essence of Taste — in other parts of the world.2

The fine, white powder was first sold in slender bottles meant to attract bourgeois housewives who were embracing science in the kitchen because it suggested hygiene and modernity, according to research by Jordan Sand, a professor of Japanese history at Georgetown University. In China, it was touted to Buddhists, who periodically abstained from eating meat, as a vegetarian way to improve flavor.

By the 1950s, MSG was found in packaged food across the U.S., from snacks to baby food. (Sand said in his 2005 paper that his 1953 edition of “The Joy of Cooking” referred to monosodium glutamate as “the mysterious ‘white powder’ of the Orient … ‘m.s.g.,’ as it is nicknamed by its devotees.”) Soon, though, MSG’s chemical nature would turn against it. After the publication of Rachel Carson’s “Silent Spring” and federal bans on sweeteners that the Food and Drug Administration deemed carcinogenic,3 consumers began to worry about chemical additives in their food. In 1968, the New England Journal of Medicine published a letter from a doctor complaining about radiating pain in his arms, weakness and heart palpitations after eating at Chinese restaurants. He mused that cooking wine, MSG or excessive salt might be to blame. Reader responses poured in with similar complaints, and scientists jumped to research the phenomenon. “Chinese Restaurant Syndrome” was born.

Early on, researchers reported an association between consuming MSG and the symptoms cited in the New England Journal of Medicine. Inflammatory headlines and book titles followed: “Chinese food make you crazy? MSG is No. 1 Suspect,” wrote the Chicago Tribune, while books titled “Excitotoxins: The Taste That Kills” and “In Bad Taste: The MSG Symptom Complex” prompted FDA reviews and “60 Minutes” investigations, as Alan Levinovitz, a professor of Chinese philosophy at James Madison University, chronicled in a 2015 book about food myths.

But those early studies had essential flaws, including that participants knew whether or not they were consuming MSG. Subsequent research has found that the vast majority of people, even those claiming a sensitivity to MSG, don’t have any reaction when they don’t know they are eating it.

That MSG causes health problems may have thrived on racially charged biases from the outset. Ian Mosby, a food historian, wrote in a 2009 paper titled “‘That Won-Ton Soup Headache’: The Chinese Restaurant Syndrome, MSG and the Making of American Food, 1968-1980” that fear of MSG in Chinese food is part of the U.S.’s long history of viewing the “exotic” cuisine of Asia as dangerous or dirty. As Sand put it: “It was the misfortune of Chinese cooks to be caught with the white powder by their stoves when the once-praised flavor enhancer suddenly became a chemical additive.”

The concern wasn’t just among the public, however. From the late 1960s to early 1980s, “Chinese Restaurant Syndrome” was considered a legitimate ailment by many in the medical establishment, according to Mosby’s research. The same can’t be said today. While nearly all the U.S. research that has suggested MSG is safe has been funded by companies that have a stake in MSG’s success, researchers think the science that underlies them is sound.

Of course, a small subset of people do have negative reactions that are directly due to glutamate, but the science to date shows that is likely to be a rare phenomenon. MSG is still, and has always been, on the FDA’s “generally recognized as safe” food list. Several allergists I reached out to who were once go-to experts on the subject declined to comment, saying that they no longer keep up with the research.

Just because there isn’t a scientific association between a given food and negative health effects doesn’t mean the pain or discomfort experienced by diners is imaginary. People who suffer after eating MSG may be experiencing the nocebo effect, the lesser-known and poorly understood cousin of the placebo effect. The phenomenon is what happens when suggesting that something can cause a negative reaction induces precisely those physical symptoms. When a Chinese restaurant puts “no MSG” on its menu to reassure customers, it furthers the stigma, likely furthering the nocebo effect in the process. As with the placebo effect, the nocebo effect can have very real reactions.

With various chefs speaking publicly about the value of MSG, in addition to the medical establishment, the time may be ripe for the public to follow. But changing minds likely won’t be easy...

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how ... enophobia/

[Taro Toporific]

How MSG Got A Bad Rap: Flawed Science And Xenophobia

Nope.
I get sick (only) at the higher doses of MSG all the time. In Japan everything has MSG and it doesn't bother me. However, some food items have more than 10% their total weight in MSG (Korean BBQ) and I have to sit down, take high blood pressure meds, and wait 30 minutes (lest I have a stroke). This happens to me randomly a couple a times a month, and is not "Flawed Science And Xenophobia"---It's just a fact of life. Shills for the MSG Industry can eat my steaming shit if they try to say otherwise.

[kurogane]

Shills for the MSG Industry can eat my steaming shit if they try to say otherwise.

Yup, me three. This recent Holocaust Denial campaign by the foody lobby really is quite something, especially considering it comes from a people that thinks food-like products named UFO are a food group. I don't get any extreme reaction but I know the crap was in there.

BTW, Taro, what part of Korean BBQ has the MSG in it?

[Russell]

Interesting article.

Personally I do not actively avoid MSG in my food, but neither do I seek it out.

These days lots of past advice is overturned.

- Butter is suddenly good for one's health,

- Red wine is suddenly not that good any more,

- and now MSG...

[Taro Toporific]

... food-like products named UFO are a food group. I don't get any extreme reaction but I know the crap was in there.

Ohhhh, "UFO" ramen is deadly, but I often end up finishing Mrs. Taro's bowl at lunch.

BTW, Taro, what part of Korean BBQ has the MSG in it?

Yukhoe, Korean-style steak tartare which is "seasoned" with various spices or sauces is the worst MSG offender, but many of the raw slices of meat to be grilled are coated in MSG to make them taste "fresh". Sadly, some of the best winter soups served in Korean places (cheap/ideal ways to warm up from the cold) are laden with handfuls MSG.

[Samurai_Jerk]

How MSG Got A Bad Rap: Flawed Science And Xenophobia

Nope.
I get sick (only) at the higher doses of MSG all the time. In Japan everything has MSG and it doesn't bother me. However, some food items have more than 10% their total weight in MSG (Korean BBQ) and I have to sit down, take high blood pressure meds, and wait 30 minutes (lest I have a stroke). This happens to me randomly a couple a times a month, and is not "Flawed Science And Xenophobia"---It's just a fact of life. Shills for the MSG Industry can eat my steaming shit if they try to say otherwise.

Sure you do. Just like all those people in the US that have suddenly developed gluten sensitivity.

[Takechanpoo]

the important is to balance yourself in everything. evilizing certain elements is most stupid among all stupidities.

[Russell]

the important is to balance yourself in everything. evilizing certain elements is most stupid among all stupidities.

Yep, after all, arsenic should be consumed in moderation...

[Coligny]

How MSG Got A Bad Rap: Flawed Science And Xenophobia

Nope.
I get sick (only) at the higher doses of MSG all the time. In Japan everything has MSG and it doesn't bother me. However, some food items have more than 10% their total weight in MSG (Korean BBQ) and I have to sit down, take high blood pressure meds, and wait 30 minutes (lest I have a stroke). This happens to me randomly a couple a times a month, and is not "Flawed Science And Xenophobia"---It's just a fact of life. Shills for the MSG Industry can eat my steaming shit if they try to say otherwise.

Sure you do. Just like all those people in the US that have suddenly developed gluten sensitivity.

you are filling in for some other holier than youz assholes ?

we are fucking lucky that people reacting to MSG are only called "wacists" had they been called antisemites you'd go full zionist-medieval on our asses.
you don't have palestinians kids to murder while singing "heil israel" today ?

remember. if you don't notice a problem. It's not necessarily that it don't exist but chances are that you are too dense to see it or just too busy being in denial.

[Coligny]

the important is to balance yourself in everything. evilizing certain elements is most stupid among all stupidities.

yes... you mean like the Koreans or foreigners... don't you have windows to lick ?

[Samurai_Jerk]

How MSG Got A Bad Rap: Flawed Science And Xenophobia

Nope.
I get sick (only) at the higher doses of MSG all the time. In Japan everything has MSG and it doesn't bother me. However, some food items have more than 10% their total weight in MSG (Korean BBQ) and I have to sit down, take high blood pressure meds, and wait 30 minutes (lest I have a stroke). This happens to me randomly a couple a times a month, and is not "Flawed Science And Xenophobia"---It's just a fact of life. Shills for the MSG Industry can eat my steaming shit if they try to say otherwise.

Sure you do. Just like all those people in the US that have suddenly developed gluten sensitivity.

you are filling in for some other holier than youz assholes ?

we are fucking lucky that people reacting to MSG are only called "wacists" had they been called antisemites you'd go full zionist-medieval on our asses.
you don't have palestinians kids to murder while singing "heil israel" today ?

remember. if you don't notice a problem. It's not necessarily that it don't exist but chances are that you are too dense to see it or just too busy being in denial.

It's funny how someone who seems to be so proud of France's scientific achievements seems to have to little faith in science. I guess you've mastered compartmentalization like that creationist neurosurgeon who wants to be POTUS.

On and it seems your Jew hatred is so strong you can't recognize sarcasm.

[Mike Oxlong]

[Coligny]

How MSG Got A Bad Rap: Flawed Science And Xenophobia

Nope.
I get sick (only) at the higher doses of MSG all the time. In Japan everything has MSG and it doesn't bother me. However, some food items have more than 10% their total weight in MSG (Korean BBQ) and I have to sit down, take high blood pressure meds, and wait 30 minutes (lest I have a stroke). This happens to me randomly a couple a times a month, and is not "Flawed Science And Xenophobia"---It's just a fact of life. Shills for the MSG Industry can eat my steaming shit if they try to say otherwise.

Sure you do. Just like all those people in the US that have suddenly developed gluten sensitivity.

you are filling in for some other holier than youz assholes ?

we are fucking lucky that people reacting to MSG are only called "wacists" had they been called antisemites you'd go full zionist-medieval on our asses.
you don't have palestinians kids to murder while singing "heil israel" today ?

remember. if you don't notice a problem. It's not necessarily that it don't exist but chances are that you are too dense to see it or just too busy being in denial.

It's funny how someone who seems to be so proud of France's scientific achievements seems to have to little faith in science. I guess you've mastered compartmentalization like that creationist neurosurgeon who wants to be POTUS.

On and it seems your Jew hatred is so strong you can't recognize sarcasm.

geez what will it take to start the standard bar fight ? you've been super tame lately. hangover, serious pussy or just getting old ? (fcking jewpologist and your mom was a bagel)

[Samurai_Jerk]

How MSG Got A Bad Rap: Flawed Science And Xenophobia

Nope.
I get sick (only) at the higher doses of MSG all the time. In Japan everything has MSG and it doesn't bother me. However, some food items have more than 10% their total weight in MSG (Korean BBQ) and I have to sit down, take high blood pressure meds, and wait 30 minutes (lest I have a stroke). This happens to me randomly a couple a times a month, and is not "Flawed Science And Xenophobia"---It's just a fact of life. Shills for the MSG Industry can eat my steaming shit if they try to say otherwise.

Sure you do. Just like all those people in the US that have suddenly developed gluten sensitivity.

you are filling in for some other holier than youz assholes ?

we are fucking lucky that people reacting to MSG are only called "wacists" had they been called antisemites you'd go full zionist-medieval on our asses.
you don't have palestinians kids to murder while singing "heil israel" today ?

remember. if you don't notice a problem. It's not necessarily that it don't exist but chances are that you are too dense to see it or just too busy being in denial.

It's funny how someone who seems to be so proud of France's scientific achievements seems to have to little faith in science. I guess you've mastered compartmentalization like that creationist neurosurgeon who wants to be POTUS.

On and it seems your Jew hatred is so strong you can't recognize sarcasm.

geez what will it take to start the standard bar fight ? you've been super tame lately. hangover, serious pussy or just getting old ? (fcking jewpologist and your mom was a bagel)

Third day being stuck at home with a nasty cold.

[Mike Oxlong]

Actually, MSG Is Not Safe for Everyone (Op-Ed)
Kathleen Holton is a professor in the School of Education, Teaching and Health and the Center for Behavioral Neuroscience at American University in Washington, D.C. Her research examines the negative effects of food additives on neurological symptoms, as well as the positive, protective effects of certain micronutrients on the brain. She is working on a book about how people can avoid consuming food additives and test themselves for sensitivity. She contributed this article to Live Science's Expert Voices: Op-Ed & Insights.

A recent video from the American Chemical Society purporting to debunk myths about the food additive monosodium glutamate (MSG) led to a slew of news stories — but that coverage failed to recognize that a subset of the population should avoid MSG.

The video contains two misleading facts. The first suggests MSG is considered "Generally Recognized as Safe," or GRAS. The GRAS label for additives gives the appearance of safety; yet the term GRAS was simply given to food additives that were in use when the Food Additives Amendment of 1958 was established. The label effectively "grandfathered in" the additives so they could bypass premarket approval by the FDA (i.e., safety testing). Secondly, the video states that free glutamate occurs naturally in some foods. This is true; however, it does not mean that MSG is safe for everyone. People who are sensitive to MSG must also avoid foods with high amounts of naturally occurring free glutamate, such as soy sauce and Parmesan cheese.

How MSG works

MSG is a flavor enhancer that has been used in processed foods in the United States since after World War II. Though many associate MSG with Chinese food, people are more likely to encounter MSG in foods like soup, broth, chips, snacks, sauces, salad dressings and seasoning packets. The active part of MSG, which imparts its "umami" flavor, comes from the glutamate portion of the compound. Glutamate is an amino acid commonly found in the diet in bound form (connected to other amino acids to form a full protein, like meat) and free form (where glutamate is no longer bound to a protein). It is this free form of glutamate (like that found in MSG) which has the ability to act as a flavor enhancer in food by exciting the neurons in your tongue.

Glutamate can always be considered a "natural flavor" because it is produced by dissociating a naturally occurring protein into its individual amino acids. Additives containing free glutamate are created by simply disrupting any protein's structure through hydrolyzation, which frees glutamate (and other amino acids), allowing glutamate to enhance the flavor of food by stimulating the neurons on your tongue.

Who needs to avoid MSG?

As researchers, we don't yet know what percentage of the population is sensitive to MSG. But we do know enough to confirm that the amino acid glutamate, when in its free form (i.e., when it is not bound to a full protein like meat) causes negative reactions in certain people. An individual's reaction to MSG is not limited to Chinese Restaurant Syndrome (CRS), which is characterized by symptoms like headache, sweating, rapid heartbeat and tightness in the chest. These symptoms usually occur within minutes of eating the compound, often while the diner is still in the restaurant.

In my research on the effects of MSG in individuals with irritable bowel syndrome and the chronic pain condition fibromyalgia, I observed headache (including migraine), diarrhea, gastrointestinal pain and bloating, extreme fatigue, muscle pain and cognitive dysfunction — all of which improved when subjects were put on a diet low in free glutamate, and which returned with re-introduction of MSG. (This was a double-blind, placebo-controlled study). In contrast to CRS, symptoms in fibromyalgia patients tend to begin somewhat later, hours after ingestion, making it more difficult for these people to identify the food-related trigger.

Other researchers are studying the potential effects of MSG on conditions like migraine, temporomandibular joint disorder (TMD/TMJ), obesity and Type 2 diabetes. Researchers from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill recently found an association between high consumption of MSG and the prevalence of overweight adults in China. Understandably, the glutamate industry is hotly contesting these and other findings related to MSG and obesity. Consumers should know that the glutamate industry funded the majority of studies "proving" the safety of MSG. Independent scientists have not always agreed with those findings.

Avoiding glutamate

In addition to MSG, free glutamate can also be found in other food additives, including any hydrolyzed protein, protein isolate, protein extract and autolyzed yeast extract, just to name a few. Food manufacturers can use these additives in a product, and still label the food as not containing MSG, since the chemical structure is different. That is, the structure does not contain the sodium part to form monosodium glutamate. However, the effect of the free glutamate is the same as that of MSG (both in its flavor-enhancing ability as well as its ability to cause symptoms in sensitive individuals).

Glutamate is not only an amino acid in the diet, it is also an important neurotransmitter essential for the optimal functioning of our nervous systems. However, too much of this chemical can cause things in our bodies to go awry. It is well established that high amounts of glutamate can cause "excitotoxicity," where neurons get over-excited to the point that they die.

For example, because of the consistent research on the excitotoxic effects of MSG on the brains of young animals in the 1960s, researchers testified before the U.S. Congress about the danger of using MSG in baby food. As a result, MSG was voluntarily removed from baby foods in 1969.

The million-dollar question is: Does everyone react to these additives? No, some people can consume relatively high amounts of free glutamate without any symptoms. However, research shows that a subset of the population is sensitive and can benefit from avoiding MSG (and other sources of free glutamate) in food.

If a person is suffering from unexplained symptoms like headache, bowel disturbance, fatigue, cognitive dysfunction, or pain that lacks a structural explanation, they may want to try avoiding free glutamate in all its forms. The only way to test for sensitivity is by avoiding excess free glutamate for a period ranging from two weeks to a month. One can do this by eating whole, non-processed foods, using whole herbs and spices, making marinades and salad dressings from scratch, and avoiding foods which naturally have higher amounts of free glutamate, like soy sauce, fish sauces, Parmesan and other aged cheeses, and large amounts of tomato sauce.

The moral of the story is simple: Blanket statements like "MSG isn't bad for you" are misguided — they give a false perception of safety to a compound that not everyone should be consuming.

http://www.livescience.com/47931-msg-no ... ryone.html

[inflames]

The original way the MSG studies (actually a lot of studies involving animals) were conducted was a mess and highly questionable. Basically it consisted of giving animals mega doses (so like giving a lab rat the equivalent of 1,000 times a regular dose 3 times a day for 3 months) and attempting to extrapolate the results to something for people, assuming a linear relationship. Firstly, you can't really give something mega doses and expect the results to be the same; hence for pharmaceuticals you have to conduct human studies using actual products. For example, everybody knows if you don't drink water you'll die within a few days, but also if you drink too much water you'll die as well (something about diluted salts cause your brain to expand IIRC), which is actually a problem for marathon runners. Similarly, fluoride helps to prevent cavities but too much of it is a poison.

The big thing I've never seen answered about MSG studies is why so many Asians can consume it. If it were so dangerous, why is it basically not used in one part of the world, and used extensively in another part? Not denying that some people have reactions to it (indeed, some people legitimately have gluten allergies), but I honestly don't believe it's nearly as dangerous as it has been portrayed in the US.

[kurogane]

The big thing I've never seen answered about MSG studies is why so many Asians can consume it.

Convenience.....aka a culturally approved excuse to be Butt Numbingly Lazy. The same reason they consider instant junk or convenience store ready made as a legitimate food group. That In Moderation argument is rubbish. It's a great philosophy for living a normal life but its use to defend eating chemical junk is just a vapid excuse to be stupid and lazy. Food additives probably play a significant factor in the horrible skin problems so many Asians have. It's poison, and no chemical industry sponsored propaganda scam is going to make it otherwise. People believe that food science crap because they want to be allowed to be morons.

Even though any reactions I ever get are very mild (mostly just a slight blechy feeling and a benumbed tongue) my opposition is simple : why would anybody use that junk in their food when it already tastes fine or better without it? It's food for fucks sake. And Umami is mostly a made up food fag fetish anyways. MSG is like a magic JuJu Bean. It does nothing good or needed, but it can do bad things. It use is ridiculous.

[wuchan]

Ajinomoto spends enough money on lobbying in Washington that they fall into the same group as P&G and Monsanto.


If it were harmless would they be spending millions of dollars a year to protect it? Probably not.

[kurogane]

Really? That's incredible.