Calling Dutch Gaijins - can you tell me about this?

[wangta]

So I was talking to a Japanese person I know and we mentioned all the things going on in Europe -refugee crisis, European Union and its fuckups,various countries there, etc. He then became very excited and said he would be living in Hollando in the future with the same rights as any native member of the EU.

I pointed out nicely that unless he has a parent who is Dutch, or marries a Dutch woman then he has no right to residence in the Netherlands. He can vacation there and study there but it's not the same thing. He said something about an old treaty between Hollando and Japan which is legal so it means Japanese people have residency rights in Japan or will in the near future.

My attitude is if it's true then it had better be reciprocal. It looks to me like the Japanese get a better deal than the Dutch because of the all the benefits (as well as having the idiocies) of being in the EU plus the anti discrimination laws etc that Japan doesn't have to follow. Are there any Dutch gaijin here who can tell me if this story is true or if this Jp person is going on another of his fantasyland trips?

[Wage Slave]

Yeah. And events in Indonesia cemented that treaty forevermore.

[Tsuru]

Your friend is correct. Going back to a treaty ratified in 1912, Japanese nationals have unlimited right to work and live in the Netherlands, own property, etc. This probably doesn't extend to the rest of the EU, though.

http://wetten.overheid.nl/BWBV0005955/1 ... #Verdrag_2

On a more personal note, this is one of the reasons my wife has chosen not to attain Dutch citizenship, even though we live, work, raise a family and build equity here. Gotta keep your options open.

The only thing she can't do is vote in national elections. Whoop dee fucking doo.

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

Where do Dutch wives fit into this?

[Coligny]

Where do Dutch wives fit into this?

In the kitchen I think...

[Samurai_Jerk]

I think I've finally figured out my path to gaining citizenship in a first world country. First step is going from PR to Japanese national.

[Wage Slave]

Except it might not be as good as it sounds. OK, so the treaty was never rescinded so Japanese people don't have to apply for a work permit. And they don't have have a visa to land. However, if they want to stay they have to apply for a Residence Permit either in advance or within 8 days of arrival.

So the question then is - How difficult is it to get a Residence Permit? Probably very easy if your spouse is Dutch but if not ,unless you are offering skills in particular demand or a large amount of capital, rather less easy.

http://settleservice.com/japanese-citizens-working-in-the-netherlands/

[Samurai_Jerk]

How difficult is it to get a Residence Permit? Probably very easy if your spouse is Dutch

Yuck. If I wanted to marry someone over six feet tall with a square jaw, I'd move to Shibuya-ku.

[chibaka]

So hang on, as a Brit I can go there easily, J wife can go too? But If I want to take my wife to my home country I have to jump through shit loads of hoops?

[Wage Slave]

So hang on, as a Brit I can go there easily, J wife can go too? But If I want to take my wife to my home country I have to jump through shit loads of hoops?

She'll certainly face substantial hoops in The Netherlands cos you is not a Dutchman so why should they grant her residence? But I agree - The UK is absolutely fucking crazy. This is what happens when you pander to parochial racist wankers.

[Wage Slave]

How difficult is it to get a Residence Permit? Probably very easy if your spouse is Dutch

Yuck. If I wanted to marry someone over six feet tall with a square jaw, I'd move to Shibuya-ku.

[matsuki]

How difficult is it to get a Residence Permit? Probably very easy if your spouse is Dutch

Yuck. If I wanted to marry someone over six feet tall with a square jaw, I'd move to Shibuya-ku.

Jeeeeeeean

[Samurai_Jerk]

famke-janssen-2.jpg

Caitlyn, is that you?

[chibaka]

She'll certainly face substantial hoops in The Netherlands cos you is not a Dutchman

Very true, but she is my wife and (at the moment) I am an EU citizen. How is this discrimination even legal? Should I divorce her and marry an EU gypsy with 15 kids to improve my chances?

But yeah, if said gypsy looked like this one, who knows

Famke-Janssen-hot-sexy.jpg

[Wage Slave]

She'll certainly face substantial hoops in The Netherlands cos you is not a Dutchman

Very true, but she is my wife and (at the moment) I am an EU citizen. How is this discrimination even legal?

Actually you might well be right on second thoughts. Perhaps an EU spouse would be good enough - I don't know. There was also something called the Singh loophole from hazy memory that relied on something like this.

[Wage Slave]

Yep, but it looks like it's shortly to be made history as a result of the Brexit referendum renegotiations.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/feb/16/immigration-loophole-for-foreign-born-spouses-could-close-under-draft-eu-rules

[chibaka]

Yep, but it looks like it's shortly to be made history as a result of the Brexit referendum renegotiations.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/feb/16/immigration-loophole-for-foreign-born-spouses-could-close-under-draft-eu-rules

Well that is a new rule to remove a loophole which is used to work around the rule I am arguing against in the first place. I can return home with an EU wife free of restrictions, why is a non EU wife different?

That said, Britain has enough Singhs already

[Wage Slave]

Yep, but it looks like it's shortly to be made history as a result of the Brexit referendum renegotiations.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/feb/16/immigration-loophole-for-foreign-born-spouses-could-close-under-draft-eu-rules

Well that is a new rule to remove a loophole which is used to work around the rule I am arguing against in the first place. I can return home with an EU wife free of restrictions, why is a non EU wife different?

Because the EU wife has no restrictions on moving to the UK whether she is married to you or not just as you can move to her country whether you are married to her or not.

Not so long ago we were free to marry anyone we chose and as long as it was a genuine marriage and we could show we had the sufficient means not to need recourse to public funds, permission to enter the UK as a spouse was more or less a formality. Now look at it. Exit from the EU will not mean the rules for Japanese spouses will change, they will remain exactly the same. And could easily get even worse as the public mood is manipulated even further against any immigration not driven by short term financial gain.

[Samurai_Jerk]

I don't know why it still surprises me but every time I read one of these articles about the UK's current stance on foreign spouses I find it mind-boggling that this is happening in a Western democracy.

[Wage Slave]

I don't know why it still surprises me but every time I read one of these articles about the UK's current stance on foreign spouses I find it mind-boggling that this is happening in a Western democracy.

It's profoundly depressing. And entirely at the making of the UK itself - being in the EU has nothing to do with it.

[Takechanpoo]

the cause that old treaty was recalled is a legal case in holanda in 2012.
http://www.lifehacker.jp/2016/01/160118 ... _nfia.html (japanese)

english version full text of The Treaty of Trade and Navigation between the Netherlands and Japan
http://www.jstor.org/tc/accept?origin=/ ... eptTC=true

[Russell]

Didn't know about this treaty, but suspect it does not make much difference. Note that some articles in it mention the need for reciprocity.

Anyways, it does mean that Japanese citizens are now entitled to dress up like Zwarte Piet...

[Russell]

How difficult is it to get a Residence Permit? Probably very easy if your spouse is Dutch

Yuck. If I wanted to marry someone over six feet tall with a square jaw, I'd move to Shibuya-ku.

You don't know what you miss...

[chibaka]

I don't know why it still surprises me but every time I read one of these articles about the UK's current stance on foreign spouses I find it mind-boggling that this is happening in a Western democracy.

It's profoundly depressing. And entirely at the making of the UK itself - being in the EU has nothing to do with it.

It's not directly related with being in the EU, it's the fuckwits in charge misguided way of appeasing the "it's the foreigners what done it guv" masses.

[Wage Slave]

I don't know why it still surprises me but every time I read one of these articles about the UK's current stance on foreign spouses I find it mind-boggling that this is happening in a Western democracy.

It's profoundly depressing. And entirely at the making of the UK itself - being in the EU has nothing to do with it.

It's not directly related with being in the EU, it's the fuckwits in charge misguided way of appeasing the "it's the foreigners what done it guv" masses.

Exactly right. And profoundly depressing that the wankers in charge feel the need to pander to these wankers instead of telling them to measure the fuck up.

[inflames]

I don't know why it still surprises me but every time I read one of these articles about the UK's current stance on foreign spouses I find it mind-boggling that this is happening in a Western democracy.

It really seems fucked. If I went to the US my parents would simply sponsor my wife based on assets or income and that would be the end of it. The UK rules are simply crazy. According to other EU nationals, they often have a much easier time getting permission to live in a different EU country with their spouse (one of my friends just got a 5 year residence permit for the UK - she is married to an Irish guy studying in Scotland).

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

I don't know why it still surprises me but every time I read one of these articles about the UK's current stance on foreign spouses I find it mind-boggling that this is happening in a Western democracy.

No, it's about Britain.

[Takechanpoo]

it seems like that japanese citizen will need work permit to work in holland from this october.
http://www.lifehacker.jp/2016/06/160623 ... lland.html

[Samurai_Jerk]

it seems like that japanese citizen will need work permit to work in holland from this october.
http://www.lifehacker.jp/2016/06/160623 ... lland.html

Ah, well. It was fun while it lasted.