Land of Hopeless Glory

[yanpa]

Thought there was already a thread for stuff from that overpriced piece of damp off the northwest coast of Europe, but anyway.

Man faces hate crime charge in Scotland over dog's 'Nazi salute'

Clip posted online allegedly shows pug appearing to make Nazi gesture in front of screen showing footage of Adolf Hitler

A man has been arrested over an online video that reportedly shows a dog making a Nazi salute.

The 28-year-old, from Coatbridge in North Lanarkshire, faces hate crime charges over the video, Police Scotland said.

The clip allegedly shows a pug sitting in front of a screen showing footage of Adolf Hitler and appearing to make Nazi salutes.

Officers said the video had been shared online and “caused offence and hurt to many people in our community”.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016 ... e-scotland

Very bad taste, but an arrestable offence?

[wagyl]

OK, so the offence is the publication of offensive material online.

Naturally, The Sun gets hit, but so does the Daily Mail, the BBC, the Mirror for republication.

As does the Grauniad.

[kagemusha]

Very bad taste, but an arrestable offence?

Ridiculous. When we start arrest people for only being offensive there will be nothing substantial or of value to say.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Very bad taste, but an arrestable offence?

Ridiculous. When we start arrest people for only being offensive there will be nothing substantial or of value to say.

This kind of shit is really getting out of hand in Europe and Canada.

[kagemusha]

Very bad taste, but an arrestable offence?

Ridiculous. When we start arrest people for only being offensive there will be nothing substantial or of value to say.

This kind of shit is really getting out of hand in Europe and Canada.

Can't agree more.

[Coligny]

And remember kids, if you don't like something, you can always cry "antisemitism"

image.jpeg

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quenelle_(gesture)

[Wage Slave]

Exactly. Also remember that terms such as White Bread are not anti anything or racist in nature and so can be used freely.

[kagemusha]

And remember kids, if you don't like something, you can always cry "antisemitism"

That's right, that scumbag can keep shitting out from his mouth antisemitic remarks and I can say that's he is an antisemite - these are the rules of the game.
I think it is wrong and dangerous to arrest or prosecute someone for being an asshole, being an antisemite or a member of the KKK - I think it is a duty to single him out and to remind ourselves that assholes' opinions can be used in later stages to commit atrocities against others.
As long as you don't actively incite to do harm to any group of people based on their color, race or religion I think it is your right to post insensitive pics of bigots and mass murderers, it's your right to deny the Holocaust, it's your right to talk trash about Islam and I wouldn't like to live in a world where you would be arrested for those things - it doesn't make you a criminal, it just makes you an asshole.
So your idiot of a father figure makes friends with Le Pen, hosts Holocaust denier as heroes on his show, wish for a reporter to die in the gas-chamber just for his Judaism and so on...so he is an asshole, and probably an antisemite.

[Russell]

Ouch, I had better not post any videos online of my Guinea pigs...

[yanpa]

Ouch, I had better not post any videos online of my Guinea pigs...

Hitler Cat salutes your resolute and principled stand against online hate crime.

[yanpa]

[Coligny]

And remember kids, if you don't like something, you can always cry "antisemitism"

That's right, that scumbag can keep shitting out from his mouth antisemitic remarks and I can say that's he is an antisemite - these are the rules of the game.
I think it is wrong and dangerous to arrest or prosecute someone for being an asshole, being an antisemite or a member of the KKK - I think it is a duty to single him out and to remind ourselves that assholes' opinions can be used in later stages to commit atrocities against others.
As long as you don't actively incite to do harm to any group of people based on their color, race or religion I think it is your right to post insensitive pics of bigots and mass murderers, it's your right to deny the Holocaust, it's your right to talk trash about Islam and I wouldn't like to live in a world where you would be arrested for those things - it doesn't make you a criminal, it just makes you an asshole.
So your idiot of a father figure makes friends with Le Pen, hosts Holocaust denier as heroes on his show, wish for a reporter to die in the gas-chamber just for his Judaism and so on...so he is an asshole, and probably an antisemite.

FG... cheaper than taking meds...
But maybe not as efficient or safe...

[legion]

The real challenge is to find footage of Red Ken's newts goose-stepping while he takes a salute

Which is what this is really about.

[Wage Slave]

The real challenge is to find footage of Red Ken's newts goose-stepping while he takes a salute

Which is what this is really about.

Yes.

[Samurai_Jerk]

I think it is wrong and dangerous to arrest or prosecute someone for being an asshole, being an antisemite or a member of the KKK

And that's the point and why hate crimes are bullshit. I don't care whether it's a poorly executed joke, a well executed joke, or a deeply held belief in wiping every (insert ethnicity/race/religion/political party/gender/sexual orientation/etc. here) off the face of the planet. You should have every right to say what you think period as long as you aren't inciting violence or harassing someone.

[Wage Slave]

I think it is wrong and dangerous to arrest or prosecute someone for being an asshole, being an antisemite or a member of the KKK

And that's the point and why hate crimes are bullshit. I don't care whether it's a poorly executed joke, a well executed joke, or a deeply held belief in wiping every (insert ethnicity/race/religion/political party/gender/sexual orientation/etc. here) off the face of the planet. You should have every right to say what you think period as long as you aren't inciting violence or harassing someone.

Are you not aware of the fundamental contradiction in what you say here? And, as a general principle, I think that people have a right to peaceful enjoyment that goes further than a lack of harassment and fuckwit hatemongering troublemakers destroy that. And then there is the cost of policing the trouble they enjoy stirring up. Why should I have to pay for it? In fact, I resent paying for it very deeply.

In this particular case, I agree things have gone too far - but since when did anyone get a balance exactly right every time? As Legion said it is far more to do with a moral panic cooked up by an unholy alliance of the right wing press and the Blairite wing of the Labour Party using trumped up charges anti-semitism in order to achieve their particular political ends. It's a bit contagious that sort of thing though which is yet another reason there needs to be some boundaries kept in place.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Are you not aware of the fundamental contradiction in what you say here?

Nope.

"I hate the French and wish they would be wiped off the planet."

vs.

"Go out there, find a Frenchman, and kill him."

[Wage Slave]

Are you not aware of the fundamental contradiction in what you say here?

Nope.

"I hate the French and wish they would be wiped off the planet."

vs.

"Go out there, find a Frenchman, and kill him."

The former could easily be incitement if not a direct call to action. Imagine you were addressing a mob outside a Frenchman's house at the time you made that remark.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Are you not aware of the fundamental contradiction in what you say here?

Nope.

"I hate the French and wish they would be wiped off the planet."

vs.

"Go out there, find a Frenchman, and kill him."

The former could easily be incitement if not a direct call to action. Imagine you were addressing a mob outside a Frenchman's house at the time you made that remark.

Context is obviously important.

[wagyl]

Will no one rid me of this troublesome priest?

[Wage Slave]

Yes. There is of course, like so many important things in life, a balance to be struck. And there are times when it won't be got right - it's always a somewhat messy and imprecise process. And different societies have a right to decide for themselves how they seek to weight that balance. It all depends what kind of place you want to live in - For the reasons I gave earlier and given the potential threat to people, I prefer the balance to weighted a bit away from absolutist notions of free speech.

In the specific case that started this discussion it's perhaps worth noting that the person has not been prosecuted let alone punished yet. The DPP or whatever they have in Scotland still has to make a decision whether there is sufficient evidence to bring a successful prosecution and whether it is in the public interest to do so. Not a foregone conclusion in this case I'd say.

[kagemusha]

I think it is wrong and dangerous to arrest or prosecute someone for being an asshole, being an antisemite or a member of the KKK

And that's the point and why hate crimes are bullshit. I don't care whether it's a poorly executed joke, a well executed joke, or a deeply held belief in wiping every (insert ethnicity/race/religion/political party/gender/sexual orientation/etc. here) off the face of the planet. You should have every right to say what you think period as long as you aren't inciting violence or harassing someone.

Again, right on point. Remember that in between those clear cut definitions there are many shades of gray and here is where an ongoing debate is vital to make sure the balance is held. Same with the Far-Right, there will be always regressive left shallows who will try to shut up any voice they don't like or don't have answers for.

[wagyl]

The DPP or whatever they have in Scotland

procurator fiscal

Freedom!

[Coligny]

Could you use another example, I'm getting increasingly uncomfortable here...

[Samurai_Jerk]

Could you use another example, I'm getting increasingly uncomfortable here...

Sure.

"I hate OBGYN's and wish they would be wiped off the planet."

vs.

"Go out there, find an OBGYN, and kill her (and her house husband)."

[Coligny]

yyaaaannnpaaaaas... SJ is mean again...

[Russell]

yyaaaannnpaaaaas... SJ is mean again...

Inspired by European culture, I'll add to that...

How does a Frenchman commit suicide? By shooting 15cm above his head, right in the middle of his superiority complex.

and

Why did the French choose the cockerel as their national symbol? Because it’s the only animal that sings when it’s knee-deep in shit.

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

Having once spent more than a week with almost constant bombardment of racially vilifying vitriol being spouted by sometimes several vans equipped with loudspeakers circling my home while I was under police protection because of a spate of death threats made against my person for having been the tool to willingly exercise my employer's right to free speech, I pondered over whether freedom of speech and expression are such great ideas.
Despite the tremendous fears and resentments I felt at that time, I became convinced that freedom of speech should be an inalienable right for all people on all matters. It all comes down to who is to judge what words are dangerous, and on what standards?
Despite the occasional exception, words are easily defeated, anyway.

[kurogane]

Very bad taste, but an arrestable offence?

Agreed. Public ridicule should be sufficient punishment for anybody that owns a pug, though anybody from Coatbridge doing so should also have to spend a week on their knees licking clean the pavement outside a Glasgow kebab shop. On Paisley Road. On Sunday morning.

Very bad taste, but an arrestable offence?

This kind of shit is really getting out of hand in Europe and Canada.[/quote]

Apparently we just refused entry to the Fat Negro comedienne, Douchedonair. I don't support that sort of intervention, but it's pretty funny and it furthers the Boycott France movement, so I'll pencil it in as a win.

French comic Dieudonné won't perform in Montreal
http://montrealgazette.com/news/local-n ... ian-border

[matsuki]

Having once spent more than a week with almost constant bombardment of racially vilifying vitriol being spouted by sometimes several vans equipped with loudspeakers circling my home while I was under police protection because of a spate of death threats made against my person for having been the tool to willingly exercise my employer's right to free speech, I pondered over whether freedom of speech and expression are such great ideas.
Despite the tremendous fears and resentments I felt at that time, I became convinced that freedom of speech should be an inalienable right for all people on all matters. It all comes down to who is to judge what words are dangerous, and on what standards?
Despite the occasional exception, words are easily defeated, anyway.

I think your situation doesn't need the race element to be harassment, threats, etc.

What did the neighbors do/say? Anyone ever get arrested?