My Number

[kurogane]

If I'd known how much trouble middle names caused here before I came I would've gotten a passport with no middle name at all.

Can we do that????? If we can it's almost worth dishing out another $150 or WTF it was for the 10 year one I got last year. I wish I had thought of it and looked into it. My middle name is easy as pie but the way having one makes filling out Japanese forms and paperwork such a labyrinth would be worth $500 CAD any ole day.

[Russell]

There appears to be a little power grab going on.

Our HR department have sent us an email saying we have to access some URL and input our MyNumbers and those of our dependents, and photograph and upload a photo ID, drivers license, gaijin card whatever.

I've been too busy to do this yet, prompting a helpful mail from the nice lady in HR. I'm trying to decide if I should blur my photo or just composite in a different face.

Just use your FG avatar...

[Grumpy Gramps]

Our HR department have sent us an email saying we have to access some URL and input our MyNumbers and those of our dependents, and photograph and upload a photo ID, drivers license, gaijin card whatever.

Maybe you could ask nicely, where you can access their security policy and how exactly they intend to keep this data safe and who exactly is authorised to access it?

Depends on how much you like your job, though...

[legion]

Our HR department have sent us an email saying we have to access some URL and input our MyNumbers and those of our dependents, and photograph and upload a photo ID, drivers license, gaijin card whatever.

Maybe you could ask nicely, where you can access their security policy and how exactly they intend to keep this data safe and who exactly is authorised to access it?

Depends on how much you like your job, though...

I'm a seishain

The impression I get is this is coming from the tax office.

I think I will switch the photo on the horizontal plane in photoshop and tweak some features and see what happens.

[wuchan]

Our HR department have sent us an email saying we have to access some URL and input our MyNumbers and those of our dependents, and photograph and upload a photo ID, drivers license, gaijin card whatever.

Maybe you could ask nicely, where you can access their security policy and how exactly they intend to keep this data safe and who exactly is authorised to access it?

Depends on how much you like your job, though...

this.

your employer is legally obligated to provide their my# policies to all employees.... HOWEVER, it doesn't have to be in engrish.


All companies are required to have a policy drafted up to protect, well only, them. If your # is leaked they are responsible.


Or so I have been told by HRBPs that..... well, use your imagination.

[legion]

I shot off an email to the nice lady in HR asking for further clarification. No answer.

[wagyl]

I don't understand why they would require a photographic copy (or any other kind) of a photo ID. They do, however, need to report your My Number to the tax authorities and they don't know it without asking you for it.

[legion]

I don't understand why they would require a photographic copy (or any other kind) of a photo ID. They do, however, need to report your My Number to the tax authorities and they don't know it without asking you for it.

That's what I'm asking, why the photo id? We are sent a unique URL to our work email, so there is a verification in place.

The system isn't being provided by our IT guys apparently. My guess is it is Accenture with their fingers in another pie providing a "service".

They recommend we do the procedure on our company issued iPhones, taking a photo of the ID. Like my arse, I scanned my driver's license and flipped the photo round on the horizontal, I'm not a perfect beauty and as I understand facial recognition software that should be enough to make the photo data pointless.

Haven't done the procedure yet, nor has anyone else by the sounds of it.

[Samurai_Jerk]

I guess it depends on what it's for. We have to open accounts for trading stock options at my company and the investment bank is requiring copies of photo IDs along with our My Numbers.

[wagyl]

This "we took a photo ID so that we comply with anti-money laundering laws" is fine if they have the person standing in front of them, but it all seems strange if they are accepting this documentation online.

By the way, Legion, I think you are overestimating the ability of facial recognition technology. At first, I almost always failed the machine facial recognition entering my home country using the biometric data in my passport. It was no real surprise, because my face is a lot hairier than my passport photo. Now I sail through. I have heard anecdotally that they had to ramp down the specificity due to all the false negatives, so that now it is not an exaggeration to say that a football would be accepted into the country if it had my passport and claimed to be me.

[legion]

This "we took a photo ID so that we comply with anti-money laundering laws" is fine if they have the person standing in front of them, but it all seems strange if they are accepting this documentation online.

Exactly. I suspect that there have been meetings that have led them to a perfectly logical illogical solution. The tin foil hat in me wants to believe we are being softened up for a photo ID system by the lizard headed aliens.

Obviously us gaijin already have a number & photo ID, so for us this is no big change, just more complication. However I am 100% certain that there will be a data leak with the my number system at some point, and this makes me nervous.

[chibaka]

Here's a link to a PDF on Shinsei's site explaining the My Number rules for GoRemit: http://www.shinseibank.com/goremit/en/i ... erinfo.pdf

If you opened a GoRemit account before December 31st, 2015 you have till January 1st, 2019 to tell them your Numbah.

I'm still not sure about withdrawing money from your Shinsei Bank account while overseas. I guess I may actually have to call them.

They are asking current users it seems.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/community/2 ... wR91qR97IU

“The My Number system is slated to include deposits and savings accounts from 2018. However, this will not apply to overseas accounts. Furthermore, in the case of domestic accounts, inclusion in My Number is arbitrary, not compulsory,” said a staff member.

I then contacted Shinsei Bank to ask why a customer’s My Number was necessary for the GoRemit service. A representative from their PR Department responded: “Asking for My Number in this case has no connection with the customer’s bank account. It is in fact based on the Act on Submission of Statement of Overseas Wire Transfers for Purpose of Securing Proper Domestic Taxation.” (This law was recently modified in relation to the recording and reporting of overseas remittances and transfers of securities from Jan 1.)

“Specifically, when a customer wants to send money overseas, we are now obliged to ask for proof of their name, address and individual number (i.e., My Number), or a corporate number, to complete the transaction in line with Article 3 of the act,” the representative explained.

She added that any new applications for GoRemit services from Jan. 1 of this year must include My Number information, while customers who have been using GoRemit prior to Dec. 31 of last year, such as J.M., have been asked to furnish the extra information.

[wuchan]

Here's a link to a PDF on Shinsei's site explaining the My Number rules for GoRemit: http://www.shinseibank.com/goremit/en/i ... erinfo.pdf

If you opened a GoRemit account before December 31st, 2015 you have till January 1st, 2019 to tell them your Numbah.

I'm still not sure about withdrawing money from your Shinsei Bank account while overseas. I guess I may actually have to call them.

They are asking current users it seems.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/community/2 ... wR91qR97IU

“The My Number system is slated to include deposits and savings accounts from 2018. However, this will not apply to overseas accounts. Furthermore, in the case of domestic accounts, inclusion in My Number is arbitrary, not compulsory,” said a staff member.

I then contacted Shinsei Bank to ask why a customer’s My Number was necessary for the GoRemit service. A representative from their PR Department responded: “Asking for My Number in this case has no connection with the customer’s bank account. It is in fact based on the Act on Submission of Statement of Overseas Wire Transfers for Purpose of Securing Proper Domestic Taxation.” (This law was recently modified in relation to the recording and reporting of overseas remittances and transfers of securities from Jan 1.)

“Specifically, when a customer wants to send money overseas, we are now obliged to ask for proof of their name, address and individual number (i.e., My Number), or a corporate number, to complete the transaction in line with Article 3 of the act,” the representative explained.

She added that any new applications for GoRemit services from Jan. 1 of this year must include My Number information, while customers who have been using GoRemit prior to Dec. 31 of last year, such as J.M., have been asked to furnish the extra information.

Last time I checked the bank link was "voluntary" beginning in 2018.

Guess it's time to get on the waiting list for a safe.

[matsuki]

BTW, the GoRemit service is working wonderfully for me. Once it's set up, you basically furikomi to them and it is quickly wired to your overseas account. No request for mainambaaa but I set my shizz up before the end of last year.

[chibaka]

Last time I checked the bank link was "voluntary" beginning in 2018.

Guess it's time to get on the waiting list for a safe.

Better hurry.... http://fortune.com/2016/02/23/japans-ne ... afe-sales/

Japan's Negative Interest Rates Are Driving up Sales of Safes

[inflames]

BTW, the GoRemit service is working wonderfully for me. Once it's set up, you basically furikomi to them and it is quickly wired to your overseas account. No request for mainambaaa but I set my shizz up before the end of last year.

I went to Shitsay Bank today to give them my new address (true to Japanese style, where I live and where I am registered to live are in different prefectures about an hour apart) and they told me I had to give them my number, which isn't listed on their page at all. Back in 2006/2007 they were really good but now my blood pressure rises whenever I go into a branch. They made a friend fill out some IRS form a last year - they probably wanted to see his social security card too.

I set up GoRemit in January and had to give it - wife got super pissed when they sent me account opening documents in English even though I filled out everything in Japanese (their English application was basically unintelligible). They called about something on the application and my wife answered - I just remember her practically yelling about why they would call a foreigner and start speaking English (my wife puts basically everything on speakerphone, which made it better).

[Wage Slave]

They made a friend fill out some IRS form a last year

I don't think that's their fault - My bank in Luxembourg made me fill out and sign one last year promising under pain of the full weight of the American justice system that I was not American, had no residence in America, had no contact with America at all etc.

It's the IRS cracking down.

I don't quite get the offence over My Number. To me it is no different to the function the NI number plays in the UK or the Social Security number plays in the US. It's just a normal thing to have in a developed country and it helps to detect fraud.

[Coligny]

Mynumbah.. No issue...

The way they handle it... Seems to be a clusterfuck from day one...

It's basically like a car number plate with dubious proof of ownership protocol... And supposed to be secret while everybody and their dog seems to be able/allowed to ask for it... The second it's treated as more than a publicly accessible data with weak to no authentication value unless accompanied by secure proof of its ownership we are up shit creek without a paddle. And with the locals chimps persuaded of their superiority whatever they do... Ehm... Fuck up... It's a sure recipe for disaster. Full course with fish and white wine...

WE French have a social security number partially based on a recipe (like start with 1 for boyz, 2 for gurls, 3 for poodles and GTFO for arabs) plus some randomization at the end. We have a id card like a credit card with a chipset containing a short version of medical files (that was the teery at least) and the number with your name/Birthday is also printed on the plastic. That's just a medical card. Together with your nationnal ID card that everyone get at 18 but can be asked before they constitute a secure ID... Separated, the first just say that the person named on the med card is part of the universal french medical insurance system. While the nationnal ID card say the holder if looking like in the picture is french and bear the written name. To sum up... 1 card say the goof on the pict have that name and birthdate, the other say that name and birthdate have this number.

The amerikkan system seems grossly stupid with people having a semi public SSN but with countless entities treating it like some sort of secure seekret token... And these dunces have nukes...

[legion]

They made a friend fill out some IRS form a last year

I don't think that's their fault - My bank in Luxembourg made me fill out and sign one last year promising under pain of the full weight of the American justice system that I was not American, had no residence in America, had no contact with America at all etc.

It's the IRS cracking down.

I don't quite get the offence over My Number. To me it is no different to the function the NI number plays in the UK or the Social Security number plays in the US. It's just a normal thing to have in a developed country and it helps to detect fraud.

I think the Japanese instinctively oppose every change to the status quo because it usually ends up with the guys further up the food chain screwing the guys further down. MyNumber is supposed to be making taxation more efficient, giving diverse government offices a common reference point to make sure people are paying their tax and receiving the benefits they are entitled too. However the average person just assumes it will be used to screw them in some way, even if they can't work out how, they still bristle as an automatic response.

I think we can more or less be sure there will be a data leak at some point.

[inflames]

They made a friend fill out some IRS form a last year

I don't think that's their fault - My bank in Luxembourg made me fill out and sign one last year promising under pain of the full weight of the American justice system that I was not American, had no residence in America, had no contact with America at all etc.

It's the IRS cracking down.

I don't quite get the offence over My Number. To me it is no different to the function the NI number plays in the UK or the Social Security number plays in the US. It's just a normal thing to have in a developed country and it helps to detect fraud.

I wouldn't mind filling out just a form, but honestly Shitsay Bank has been pissing me off recently, and they probably would be dumb enough to ask to see a social security card (which is pretty laughable).

The person I know who is most opposed to My Number is British and insisted there was nothing similar in the UK (which I didn't believe).

[chibaka]

The person I know who is most opposed to My Number is British and insisted there was nothing similar in the UK (which I didn't believe).

The UK has the NI number which is used for all things tax and welfare related, including health. Whether paying or receiving, this number is the reference. It is not required for bank transactions, maybe this is what the guy was referring to.

[Wage Slave]

The person I know who is most opposed to My Number is British and insisted there was nothing similar in the UK (which I didn't believe).

The UK has the NI number which is used for all things tax and welfare related, including health. Whether paying or receiving, this number is the reference. It is not required for bank transactions, maybe this is what the guy was referring to.

That's true but they are very strict about proving your identity. Well, they are if you are just an ordinary person - obviously not if you are hiding behind a Panamanian shell company. HSBC recently demanded sight of my passport for an account that has been open since about 1995.

[matsuki]

it's treated as more than a publicly accessible data

I've pretty much given up on privacy regarding anything in Japan. Having have my office harassed a few years back because apparently our employer/visa info is accessible by anyone...and a more recent TV show where they were tracking down sagi where the attorneys were able to basically pull up any kind of contract, juminhyo, etc into without breaking a sweat, the fraud potential in this country is about to be exploited to new heights...

[wagyl]

The wholesale linking of My Numbers to bank accounts is not for a few years yet, but certain transactions, including to and from foreign countries, require it now. For example http://www.jp-bank.japanpost.jp/informa ... umber.html

For various reasons, including the high probability that I will be out of the country on an extended trip when an international remittance is made to my bank account, I today sought to link my My マイ My Number with, well, any or all of my bank accounts. All the banks have paperwork ready, for those already making or receiving international transfers, and the clerks get them ready, only to confirm with their superiors, to be told that they cannot collect My Numbers until after the event which requires them: they are not authorised to collect them in advance. No one really knows what is going on, but condensing numerous discussions at the Tokyo head offices of numerous banks, the banks both do not want the responsibility of looking after such personal data, and it may in fact be against the law for them to collect that data before it is against the law for them not to collect the data.

I then asked the banks what happens to the account if they do not have a My Number recorded for it after they are required to have it (for example, after receiving an international remittance). Is that transaction held in limbo? And what about after the My Number has to be recorded for all accounts, which I think is scheduled for 2018? Is the account then frozen for all transactions. Admittedly it is just bank clerks answering this question so it may not exactly be authoritative, but clerks at different banks all answered that transactions will not be blocked because of a lack of a My Number. Which of course begs the question -- if there is no ill effects from not advising the bank of My Number, why do it at all?

I sort of get the impression that as far as the banks are concerned, they are not too impressed about being required to collect and keep this information, and they just feel that it is a decision imposed by the bureaucracy, and they would like if possible to be able to continue with their business while ignoring it as much as they can, even while making the appearance of complying. I may be reading a little too much into that, but there was the distinct impression that they really wanted to say "hey, this is as frustrating for us as it is for you, and we understand what you want to try to do, but our hands are tied."

[Samurai_Jerk]

Interesting. Now admittedly it's a different kind of bank and different kind of account but most of my coworkers and I recently had to open accounts with an investment bank to sell stock options and we all had to give them photocopies of our My Number cards to do so.

[Yokohammer]

Interesting. Now admittedly it's a different kind of bank and different kind of account but most of my coworkers and I recently had to open accounts with an investment bank to sell stock options and we all had to give them photocopies of our My Number cards to do so.

Sounds like an impending employee exodus.

Did you get the photo ID My Number card or are you just using the initial paper notification thing? A guy I know went down to the ward office to apply for his photo ID card and was told it would take several months (in Tokyo, not up here in the boonies). They did say that the initial notification could be used in the meantime though.

[wagyl]

There is no need to get the photo ID card (??at this stage. May change in the future??), the paper notification is fine but they also require a separate photo ID in that case, like a drivers licence.

Equity investment accounts require My Number to be recorded now, so SJ's experience is appropriate. I was often directed to the equity investment specialist when trying to explain what I was trying to do. That or the foreign remittance desk.

[Yokohammer]

There is no need to get the photo ID card (??at this stage. May change in the future??), the paper notification is fine but they also require a separate photo ID in that case, like a drivers licence.

Good. Makes sense.

I have been tempted to just wander down to town hall with a photo and do the application because it will probably be unavoidable in the future anyway. But if there's a backlog I figured might as well wait until things clear up a bit. Of course if I wait several months then technically there won't be much difference in the timing, but at least I can take a leisurely approach.

"Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow," as they say.

[BigInJapan]

The wholesale linking of My Numbers to bank accounts is not for a few years yet, but certain transactions, including to and from foreign countries, require it now. For example...

"Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow," as they say.

I still haven't got my マイナンバー card yet, but after receiving some funds from Mom overseas for a grandkid's birthday, the bank lady that called for confirmation said that I really have to get one (by July maybe?).
It's Mrs. BIJ that is more paranoid about getting the my number cards after hearing about all the potential for abuse of banking info and sagi, etc. on the boobtube.

[omae mona]

I still haven't got my マイナンバー card yet, but after receiving some funds from Mom overseas for a grandkid's birthday, the bank lady that called for confirmation said that I really have to get one (by July maybe?).
It's Mrs. BIJ that is more paranoid about getting the my number cards after hearing about all the potential for abuse of banking info and sagi, etc. on the boobtube.

Are you talking about the full-fledged, optional, laminated photo ID card that you have to apply for? Or do you mean you still don't even have the original notification card that everybody gets?

If the former, I am shocked... is anybody claiming they are required? I thought that was not supposed to happen. If the latter, I am also shocked... I thought the government had successfully mailed these all out by now.