Don't Buy an iPod

[American Oyaji]

one of the reasons apple doesn't have third party repairs is the same reason that there are no more third party macintoshes.

It's business. Apple was in the hole SERIOUSLY before Steve Jobs came back.

Apple is quite comfortably in the black now with billions of dollars IN THE BANK.

If you watch market trends, Apple is the trendSETTER in just about ANYTHING that goes on in the computing world.

You think the Xbox is original? No. Apple tried with the Pippin, but people said, "oh its apple it wont work".

You think the Palm is original? No. Apple tried with the Newton.

You think digital cameras are original? No. Apple tried it out first too.

Apple has tried branching out in the past and their stuff got shut down in the market.

So they regrouped backed up and concentrated on their core business. Got Steve Jobs back and NOW they try the smallest/largest capacity MP3 player...and guess what.

IT ROCKS. Great piece of tech.

And For the record. Most companies don't offer replacement plans right off the bat, because the products are still in warranty. And they don't know right away what sort of plan to set up because no matter how much lab durabiility testing you do, its nothing like real world results. So you don't know what kind of plan to set up until complaints start coming in. It's business.

WARRANTIES are to protect the company as well. Companies figure that their product should NOT break within a years time. But neither should they have to pay to fix it for life.

One of the reasons for a warranty period is so that the company can find things that CAN go wrong with a product. Mass consumer beta testing if you will.

But I stand by my point that getting COMPUTER products repaired in Japan can be a supreme hassle and pain in the SAIFU.

And anyone notice how many trolls posted in this thread? JUST TO BASH APPLE?

[Robato]

And For the record. Most companies don't offer replacement plans right off the bat, because the products are still in warranty. And they don't know right away what sort of plan to set up because no matter how much lab durabiility testing you do, its nothing like real world results. So you don't know what kind of plan to set up until complaints start coming in. It's business.

WARRANTIES are to protect the company as well. Companies figure that their product should NOT break within a years time. But neither should they have to pay to fix it for life.

yep you are right....thats why they should charge $20 for that firewire port instead of raping the guy for $300.

Im not saying that apple has to cover the cost of fixing something....but how about charging cost? Why try to profit twice on the same product? The answer is "its a business" I know....but I dont want to do business with someone that wants to profit twice from me. (on the very same product)

I will just stick to burning mp3s on cds and playing them in my stereo (all cd player I have play mp3s) I never bought into the whole reo mp3 player 5 years ago and I dont think I will buy into apples either.

But I stand by my point that getting COMPUTER products repaired in Japan can be a supreme hassle and pain in the SAIFU.

I guess this is why I repair things myself.....but I cant do that with apple products.....which is why I will never own one.

And anyone notice how many trolls posted in this thread? JUST TO BASH APPLE?

no but I have noticed that people get defensive when your opinion differs and they they revert to calling you a troll for not agreeing with them. That in a way is a troll in itself....so maybe, yes I have noticed this....very very recent as a matter of fact.

[Caustic Saint]

You're still trolling, but I'll take a little nibble.

I was going to go over some of the points you're trying to make and look at them one by one, but there'd be no point. You have yet to address the fact that in both Tokyojoe's case and the case of the guys in the video, their iPods were out of warranty.

hahahahaha
that is the point. Once the 3 month warranty is over, apple products are useless if they break. If they werent such proprietary overcharging business, it wouldnt be an issue. But they are, and thats why I wont buy one of their shitty products.

This is where your post ended before you went back and edited the rest of it on. Note how you ignored the fact that the warranty is 12 months instead of 3? When somebody shows you your information is false, repeating it won't make it true, try as you might.

I laid out for you exactly why Apple charges so much for out-of-warranty service, and rather than respond to that you try to make lame jokes.

Its not a joke that apple doesnt allow 3rd parties to make devices for their products. Its absolutely serious....which is EXACTLY why they can overcharge for initial price AND for upgrades and repairs.

Sure they let 3rd parties make devices for their products. Belkin makes tons of iPod accessories. All the video cards in Macs come from either Nvidia or ATI. Sony and Toshiba are the two main suppliers of optical drives. Apple doesn't make RAM or hard drives either.

The thing is, Apple controls who can make what parts for their stuff. As a manufacturer it's their right to say what goes inside. It is also their right to control service parts for their products.

If you've got something to say besides "Apple sucks and rapes," or are willing to address points I've brought up to counter your "suck and rape" allegations, I'd be happy to continue this discussion. If not, I'm done with you here.

good job trying to belittle what I have said about them not allowing 3rd parties to make devices for their products. (act of monopoly)

defend defend defend.....by you wont change my opinion that I dont want to pay $300 for a firewire port

Apple isn't a monopoly. Are they the only company making Macs and iPods? Yes. They are the sole manufacturer of those items. Monopoly is control of an entire industry. Apple is far from being in control of the computer industry. They're a niche player and they know it.

I don't want to change your opinion, or anybody else's for that matter. You're not in a position to have to pay $300 for a firewire port, so I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish here, aside from overuse of the words, "suck," "rape" and "shitty."

[Robato]

You're still trolling, but I'll take a little nibble.

I was going to go over some of the points you're trying to make and look at them one by one, but there'd be no point. You have yet to address the fact that in both Tokyojoe's case and the case of the guys in the video, their iPods were out of warranty.

hahahahaha
that is the point. Once the 3 month warranty is over, apple products are useless if they break. If they werent such proprietary overcharging business, it wouldnt be an issue. But they are, and thats why I wont buy one of their shitty products.

This is where your post ended before you went back and edited the rest of it on. Note how you ignored the fact that the warranty is 12 months instead of 3? When somebody shows you your information is false, repeating it won't make it true, try as you might.

sorry let me rephrase than
hahahahaha
that is the point. Once the 12 month warranty is over, apple products are useless if they break. If they werent such proprietary overcharging business, it wouldnt be an issue. But they are, and thats why I wont buy one of their shitty products. (see when you take out the typo, it still doesnt change the premise of the statement, just the timeline....apple still overcharges you for repairs)

Sure they let 3rd parties make devices for their products. Belkin makes tons of iPod accessories. All the video cards in Macs come from either Nvidia or ATI. Sony and Toshiba are the two main suppliers of optical drives. Apple doesn't make RAM or hard drives either.

yes motorola used to make their chips....and now ibm does....but it doesnt change the fact that it is proprietary and they overcharge for a device because there is no competition on parts.

I dont want to pay $300 for a firewire port. Nothing that you say will change that.

I don't want to change your opinion, or anybody else's for that matter. You're not in a position to have to pay $300 for a firewire port, so I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish here, aside from overuse of the words, "suck," "rape" and "shitty."

Neither are you, but the one who made the thread is. The guy who made the battery video was too. I am not trying to accomplish anything....just wanted to give that guy the link to show he is not alone in the world of being ripped off by apple. Now I am just stating my opinion with you attacking me, my opinion, my "credibility" and now reverted to name calling!!

Can you explain how I am being a troll when it was you that started this with your rebuttal against my original post to tell the guy to check out a site that is similar to his situation? You can have you opinion that mac is the greatest....will you please let me have my opinion that they are a horrible company without your name calling?

since we are in the game of name calling....I want to know...What are you trying to accomplish besides being an asshole? I can assure you, you already have that covered in this thread.

[Caustic Saint]

I don't want to change your opinion, or anybody else's for that matter. You're not in a position to have to pay $300 for a firewire port, so I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish here, aside from overuse of the words, "suck," "rape" and "shitty."

Neither are you, but the one who made the thread is. The guy who made the battery video was too. I am not trying to accomplish anything....just wanted to give that guy the link to show he is not alone in the world of being ripped off by apple. Now I am just stating my opinion with you attacking me, my opinion, my "credibility" and now reverted to name calling!!

Can you explain how I am being a troll when it was you that started this with your rebuttal against my original post to tell the guy to check out a site that is similar to his situation? You can have you opinion that mac is the greatest....will you please let me have my opinion that they are a horrible company without your name calling?

since we are in the game of name calling....I want to know...What are you trying to accomplish besides being an asshole? I can assure you, you already have that covered in this thread.

The only name I've called you is "troll" because you ignored facts (the falsity of the ipodsdirtysecret video), refused to acknowlege points central to the discussion (the users with expensive repair issues had out-of-warranty iPods), kept repeating your incendiary statements (shitty product, shitty product, shitty product) and all with a company and product you have no first hand experience with.

You've never owned an Apple product, never dealt with their service department and have nothing solid to back up your position. You just keep saying "you're not going to change my opinion about the shitty ipod and apple shitty service where they rape their customers" and things of that nature.

And Apple hasn't ripped anybody off - Tokyojoe or the guys with the battery video. If you own something and it breaks after the warranty expires, you are at the mercy of what the company wants to charge to repair or replace it. That holds true for every company and every product I've ever seen. (Do you know of any company/business/product where the end-user can spell out the terms of any service to be performed after the expiration of the warranty?) No company is obligated to offer service at your price. They offer it at theirs and you can take it or leave it.

Not only did the battery video guys spend $50 for a replacement battery - and kill their iPod in the process of trying to install it - they went and bought a new iPod for $400. They hate Apple so much they gave the company $400. Yeah, that'll show THEM! Let's see, $255 for Apple to fix it, or $450 in new battery and iPod costs....

Can you show me where I've stated I think "mac is the greatest?" I've offered up no such opinion. I've been countering the bad example you offered and you took it personally. The video is deceptive, as it does not reflect the situation as it exists today. I'd like to see the number of hits for their "message" page. I'd imagine if quite lower than the 600,000+ for the video.

All you've brought to the table is anecdotal evidence of 3 people who've had problems with their iPods and some rants about Apple and $300 firewire ports (ignoring the fact that they're charging for labor and any other parts that may need to be replaced). Yes, that repair cost is very high, I don't dispute that. Again, how much would it cost under warranty? $0.

What am I trying to accomplish? I'm just trying to weed out incorrect information and keep opinions from clouding the issue Tokyojoe brought up. I suggested he go to the Ginza store and try and resolve things in person. I'm really curious to know if he's going to do that, and what the end result may be.

[American Oyaji]

When you speak of troll name calling, talk to me.

I'm the one that mentioned trolls.

And the reason is that some folk posted in that thread and have ONE frickin post. Thus "Troll" applies to them.

Or even 3 posts. Point is, that they are NOT established members of THIS FG community yet.

But they have opinions to post.

Some posted crap that had nothing to do with the issue at hand. Such as plugs for other products.

[NeoNecroNomiCron]

I havent Posted in the last few days as I was at Jump festa over the weekend. Cho Beri Otaku.

Anyway in Apples defence. All the hardware in an I pod is not off the shelf, so it will have a propriterary price. 5gig Ipods are legacy devices now. And any major company will have issues with housing parts for legasy devices, especialy custom made stuff.

Try buying a 4 mb 30 pin sim these days. in 1994-5 the price wouldbe about $700, some companies will keep some aside as there is always a need for legacy comuter parts. Inculde inflation and wearhousiing costs and it will bring it up to well over a $1000.

At the same time I know a few back street stalls that will fix Ipods and other such items. These kind of stalls are really easy to find in asia in general. If you want I can show you a place that will do it for about 4000 yen easy. As long as you pay for my time and travel expences he he. (warning I charge by the minute)

Otherwise there are even broken ipods on ebay. Just buy one and a soldiering Iron (one with a very thin point) and fix it yourself there are 100's of sites on how to take appart an Ipod.

http://www.ipodbattery.com/ipodinstall2.jpg

[tokyojoe]

Whoa, guys, didn`t expect to set off such a flame war with my rant. Let me clarify my position on this. I think the iPod is a cool product and I would like to get mine fixed.....for a reasonable price. Now, Apple told me that they would fix the firewire port on mine and send it back. They are not giving me a new one. So is 30,000 yen a reasonable price?

The port itself is a simple part, probably costs around 5 bucks. I work in the CE industry so I think I`m close. I also estimate it would take an experienced tech maybe an hour to open the unit up, remove the port and solder in the new one. I had a Powerbook go south a few years ago and watched one of their techs rip that apart in 10 minutes, find the screw that shorted the board and replace it in 20. From what I have seen of disassembled iPods on the net this shouldn`t take more than an hour. So is 30,000 reasonable? I don`t think so, unless they are paying their service techs way too much. That price says to me that Apple doesn`t want to fix their product and they would rather force their customers to buy new ones. This is the problem I have with their service policy. I`m not expecting a freebie, the unit is already out of warranty. What I expect is a reasonable price, perhaps 10,000 yen or less.

And I don`t buy the argument that it`s tough for them to keep parts around for two reasons. One, this model is only a year and a half old. Two, companies are required by Japanese law to stock parts for six years exactly for this purpose. Apple has the parts, they are just being difficult.

I have seen the dirty secret video. It`s tough to say whether that had any effect on Apple`s policy. However, there is a lot of anecdotal evidence on the net that complaints from users resulted in a reversal of policy. Perhaps this is only happening in the US. I think that if Apple doesn`t want to repair their products they should allow registered, qualified third parties to do so. Apple gets complaining customers out of their hair, small repair companies make money and the customer is happy. Everybody wins.

Anyway....my iPod is due to return tomorrow. I plan on taking it to the Ginza store next week. My Clie will also arrive tomorrow too. It can use both Memory Stick (Pro) and Compact Flash. Prices on flash memory are dropping fast so I will put a 512MB card in it. Though not as roomy as a HDD it should be more durable and easily replaceable.

[tokyojoe]

Now this is interesting. Here's a company in Texas that can fix broken Firewire ports for $55. Apparently all they do is open it up and re-solder the broken FW port connections.

http://www.pdasmart.com/ipodpartscenter.htm

Now why the hell can't Apple do this? Unfortunately, it is not a permanent fix as the connections will break under normal use again.

[Caustic Saint]

Now this is interesting. Here's a company in Texas that can fix broken Firewire ports for $55. Apparently all they do is open it up and re-solder the broken FW port connections.

http://www.pdasmart.com/ipodpartscenter.htm

Now why the hell can't Apple do this? Unfortunately, it is not a permanent fix as the connections will break under normal use again.

I'd imagine it wouldn't be all that hard to do it yourself if you're handy with a small-tipped soldering iron. As for permanence, careful application of some epoxy could work to relieve that strain.

I can see why then went to a dock connector on the 3rd gen iPods.

[etrepum]

I don't know how much experience you guys have with Apple.. but they never fix anything, they only replace parts. The firewire port of the iPod is probably soldered to the mainboard, so the price they're quoting is mainboard+labor+shipping+markup.

This stuff happens with powerbooks all the time.. If you bust a hinge, it's gonna cost you over $1k USD to fix because it's part of the display unit. Sure it sounds unfair, but thats why you buy applecare and try real hard not to break your laptop.

If you don't wanna lay down the scratch to replace the part, take it to a third party or fix it yourself. Just don't break it and then make an ass out of yourself on camera tagging my city with a gay stencil.

[Caustic Saint]

I don't know how much experience you guys have with Apple.. but they never fix anything, they only replace parts. The firewire port of the iPod is probably soldered to the mainboard, so the price they're quoting is mainboard+labor+shipping+markup.

It is. I checked the link for the repair place Tokyojoe posted and that's the problem. They saved a few pennies by hooking it directly to the mainboard instead of using a cable. Not that bad of an idea, but the didn't build in any sort of stress relief to take pressure off the soldered connections when connecting and disconnecting the firewire cable.

It seems my original hopes for this thread may pan out after all. According to Apple Insider there may well be 2GB and 4GB miniPods in January. Whoo-hoo!!!! Granted, theyr'e unconfirmed, but rumor mongers say they may cost less than $200. Oooooooooh. IwantIwantIwantIwantIwant!

[Caustic Saint]

From the "this just in" department: batteries die.

But don't worry, you can always sue!

Girard Gibbs & De Bartolomeo LLP is investigating a potential class action against Apple Computer, Inc. on behalf of iPod owners whose batteries have died or lost their ability to hold their charge.

I can only wonder what this means for all the other devices out there that use Lithium-Ion or Lithium-Polymer batteries.

[tokyojoe]

Now that is probably going too far. But it does raise an interesting question. Is the iPod a consumer electronics device or a PC peripheral? In the PC world, people are used to stuff crashing and breaking, but not with CE products. They expect a higher level of quality and service.

[etrepum]

Now that is probably going too far. But it does raise an interesting question. Is the iPod a consumer electronics device or a PC peripheral? In the PC world, people are used to stuff crashing and breaking, but not with CE products. They expect a higher level of quality and service.

Well, I've seen a lot more cell phones break than iPods.

[tokyojoe]

true but most of the cell companies give away the hardware for free or very little. it encourages disposable use. apple does that with itunes and the music store. cheap content, expensive hardware.

I've been playing tunes on my clie and I dare say the sound is better than my iPod. MP3s sound like a CD instead of MP3s.

[etrepum]

true but most of the cell companies give away the hardware for free or very little. it encourages disposable use. apple does that with itunes and the music store. cheap content, expensive hardware.

Yes, Apple doesn't give them away for free or very little.. but they also don't charge you a ridiculous termination fee if you want to switch to another portable music device. Cell phones aren't cheap (cheaper than iPods, but not cheap), you only get them that way because they're subsidized by the crazy service agreement you have to sign (with blood).

[Caustic Saint]

Yes, Apple doesn't give them away for free or very little..

Hold that thought!

Mini iPods, major iLife update focus of upcoming Expo keynote

December 23, 2003 - With rumors rampant, Think Secret can confirm that Apple CEO Steve Jobs will focus on the release of new low-end, 'mini iPods' and a major update to its iLife digital ensemble at his Macworld Expo keynote address on January 6 in San Francisco, Calif.

Reliable sources inside and outside of Apple have confirmed Apple will announce the new pocket-size iPods in a number of capacities and in various colors, including stripes. Capacities will be 2 and 4GB -- meaning users could store some 400 and 800 songs, respectively. Prices will start at around $100US, Think Secret has learned. It is not known if the new product line will be available immediately after introduction.

SCHWEEEEEEEEEEET!!!!

Now, just please let them be available immediately, or at least by the 21st of January.

[tonikoro]

Face it Rob, you're a MacHater!!!

I think if it was an ipod, I'd be less inclined to raise a beef if not having gotten a better waranty plan for aforementioned ipod. However, if it was a top-O-the-Line DT model G5 (like the one I plan to get here in a quick minute), I'd be on Steve Job's ass.

But I think the major point of all this Horseshite is to be aware of what you buy, and under what terms you buy it. That is said with any product.

I have a sharp MiniDisk recorder, shit was next to new, and a year ago just Up'ed and conked out. Dead, unresponsive, and there goes 200 bucks. Then again, it was a SHARP (should have gone SONY).

[Pizzicatoblue]

One year ago I bought a 5GB Windows iPod. I have used it lovingly every day. In June the HDD died so Apple sent me a new one. Last week, the Firewire port came loose and I could not longer charge or sync the iPod. I sent it to Apple Japan for repair. They called yesterday and confirmed that the port was busted. They said they could fix it but that would require taking the unit apart. Cost of repair is 30,000 yen ($US280)!!!



This is fricking unbelievable. I told him to send the unit back pronto. I feel like taking a hammer to it and sending it to Cupertino. I can understand that it is out of warranty but to charge full price is ridiculous. Rather than buy a new one I am going to get a Sony Clie with music features instead.

I will never buy another Apple product again.

Merry Xmas, you rat b@stards.

Amen, brother!

[Pizzicatoblue]

One year ago I bought a 5GB Windows iPod. I have used it lovingly every day. In June the HDD died so Apple sent me a new one. Last week, the Firewire port came loose and I could not longer charge or sync the iPod. I sent it to Apple Japan for repair. They called yesterday and confirmed that the port was busted. They said they could fix it but that would require taking the unit apart. Cost of repair is 30,000 yen ($US280)!!!



This is fricking unbelievable. I told him to send the unit back pronto. I feel like taking a hammer to it and sending it to Cupertino. I can understand that it is out of warranty but to charge full price is ridiculous. Rather than buy a new one I am going to get a Sony Clie with music features instead.

I will never buy another Apple product again.

Merry Xmas, you rat b@stards.

Amen, brother!

[tokyojoe]

a very interesting article which asks the question, `if apple is so innovative then how come they are so small?`

the author looks at technical vs. business model creativity and hints that once again apple may find itself thrown out of its own party.

http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/78/jobs.html

[Caustic Saint]

a very interesting article which asks the question, `if apple is so innovative then how come they are so small?`

the author looks at technical vs. business model creativity and hints that once again apple may find itself thrown out of its own party.

Interesting indeed.

Apple's always been a niche player, positioning itself as the "BMW brand" to the cheaper PCs. Doing this has won them both die-hard fans and sie-hard detractors. Their niche (as a percentage of the overall market) has grown smaller, so clearly, if they want to grow, they need to rethink some things.

I think the iPod is an example of this. It gets people familiar with Apple products, even pushing some to buy a Mac. The iPod has become the MP3 player to have, despite it's high cost. Get enough people to desire one product and hopefully that will carry over into sales of other products.

If the "miniPod" rumors are true (and ThinkSecret has a very good track record with rumors) it will be huge. They'll leapfrog nearly every other lower-end MP3 player in terms of price:capacity ratio. Combine that with the Pepsi/iTunes Music Store promotion to be debuted during the Superbowl and the iPod may become unstoppable. The promotion will give away 100 million songs from iTMS by way of winning codes under Pepsi caps, with a 1-in-3 chance of winning. The only way to play those tunes will be either in iTunes or on an iPod. Most people probably wouldn't drop $300 on an MP3 player just to play their free songs (or at all), but a $99 price point will be an incredibly easy sell.

Apple hasn't quite figured out how to leverage the mindshare they're getting with the iPod into more Mac sales, and maybe they never will. But it is a big profit-maker for them, and is helping to fund the R&D they're so much in love with and keep their niche happy. Bottom line - they're not going away anytime soon.

[Robato]

They are not giving me a new one. So is 30,000 yen a reasonable price?

The port itself is a simple part, probably costs around 5 bucks. I work in the CE industry so I think I`m close.

you are ignoring the facts though.

[Caustic Saint]

Mini iPods, major iLife update focus of upcoming Expo keynote

December 23, 2003 - With rumors rampant, Think Secret can confirm that Apple CEO Steve Jobs will focus on the release of new low-end, 'mini iPods' and a major update to its iLife digital ensemble at his Macworld Expo keynote address on January 6 in San Francisco, Calif.

Reliable sources inside and outside of Apple have confirmed Apple will announce the new pocket-size iPods in a number of capacities and in various colors, including stripes. Capacities will be 2 and 4GB -- meaning users could store some 400 and 800 songs, respectively. Prices will start at around $100US, Think Secret has learned. It is not known if the new product line will be available immediately after introduction.

SCHWEEEEEEEEEEET!!!!

Now, just please let them be available immediately, or at least by the 21st of January.

I hereby rescind my "schweeeeet."

New "iPod mini" is 4GB and $249. Why not just spend the extra $50 and get the regular iPod (which is now a 15GB model instead of 10GB)?

Bummer.

[etrepum]

It is smaller.. small is good.

[tokyojoe]

There are pics on apple`s site

http://www.apple.com/ipodmini/

can`t they come up with non-pastel colors?

[Caustic Saint]

Smaller price would be even better.

$250 for 4GB? Don't think so. All it comes with are the cables (firewire and USB 2.0), belt clip and a pair of headphones. If you want a dock, remote or the nifty armband, prepare to open your wallet even wider. At least with the 15GB iPod you get more for your money. It may not come with the dock or remote either, but you get nearly 4x the capacity for an extra $50. The increase in size is negliglble.

As for the colors, I'm going to cast my vote with "bad move." Sure they match the ad campaign colors, but so what? Stocking different colors is goiing to suck for retailers. A smarter move would've been to have it look like the iPod and have changeable faceplates. Leave things wide open for aftermarket stuff and let people personalize their iPods with more than the engraving on the back.

[Caustic Saint]

Did anybody who watched the Keynote notice something a little different when they played the "1984" Mac commercial?



See the whole thing here.

[emperor]

Dell on Wednesday launched a promotion that gives customers who send in their old Apple iPod a $100 rebate on the Round Rock, Texas-based computer giant's own digital music player.

http://www.techweb.com/wire/story/TWB20040701S0001