Gas prices

[canman]

What the hell is up with the price of gasoline! In the past two weeks the price has shot up from ¥105 to today's ¥127, and hi-octane is ¥140! Is Abe trying to raise inflation this way? Just my luck too, I just purchased a new Audi and it requires hi-octane gas.

[wagyl]

Where to start.... prices for fossil fuel are influenced by global supply and demand. See here and here. Fuel excises and consumption taxes are not changed, which explains why fuel prices have not increased by 40% since mid February, unlike the prices of the raw material before excise and tax.

...unless the OP is just an excuse to say "I have an Audi." In which case, whoop-de-doo.

[canman]

Wow Wagyl, chill man. It was just a question! I'm just surprised at how quickly the price jumped. Even though oil has gone up, but we keep hearing how they are buying futures which takes 6 months to make it to the consumer.

[wagyl]

I'm Chill. I just wonder about grown adults functioning in society who still seem to believe that Mr Abe can make a few phone calls to the heads of, say, five oil companies and they all say "Yes sir, we shall increase our prices as you order. We do not fear accusations of collusion. Furthermore, we will not try to increase our market share by undercutting those other four companies and increase prices by 17 yen instead of 20 yen."

The fact remains that oil was about $35 a barrel in mid February. It is approaching $50 a barrel today. The price at the pump has to change.

You may also care to examine the oil futures, linked from those links above. Note that trend.

[Russell]

I'm Chill. I just wonder about grown adults functioning in society who still seem to believe that Mr Abe can make a few phone calls to the heads of, say, five oil companies and they all say "Yes sir, we shall increase our prices as you order. We do not fear accusations of collusion. Furthermore, we will not try to increase our market share by undercutting those other four companies and increase prices by 17 yen instead of 20 yen."

The fact remains that oil was about $35 a barrel in mid February. It is approaching $50 a barrel today. The price at the pump has to change.

I seem to remember that the price at the pump was also around 140 Yen back in the time when the oil price ran at $100 a barrel.

Please, help me out.

[wagyl]

Please, help me out.

I'm not going to do anything tricky like massage the sample: before 2013 had poor correlation, but I think you will agree that the curves are similar since then. See the 10 year historical graphs here:
Crude prices
Japanese Petroleum prices
And I think we can all agree that we are better off now than we were in 2013.

[Wage Slave]

I'm Chill. I just wonder about grown adults functioning in society who still seem to believe that Mr Abe can make a few phone calls to the heads of, say, five oil companies and they all say "Yes sir, we shall increase our prices as you order. We do not fear accusations of collusion. Furthermore, we will not try to increase our market share by undercutting those other four companies and increase prices by 17 yen instead of 20 yen."

The fact remains that oil was about $35 a barrel in mid February. It is approaching $50 a barrel today. The price at the pump has to change.

I seem to remember that the price at the pump was also around 140 Yen back in the time when the oil price ran at $100 a barrel.

Please, help me out.

The other big factor is the Yen/dollar exchange rate. Crude oil is priced in dollars - we buy in Yen.

[canman]

But the yen has been fairly stable, other than when Abe and Kuroda talked it down. So I don't see how buying in yen would account for such a bit jump in price.
And Wagyl, I was being facetious when I said was Abe trying to raise inflation, but the way he has been talking how low prices are and they haven't been this bad since the dreaded Lehman shock!

[wagyl]

OK, then what is your explanation? A quiet agreement over port and cigars in the Oil Mogul's Club? Because what I see where I am is competing petrol stations paring down prices wherever possible to match the guy across the road. They don't put prices up unless there is a good reason, like increased costs.

[canman]

But do you not think that ¥23 yen in two weeks seems a bit outlandish considering the price of oil is rising but nothing like at the rate the price of gas is going. That is my only point. And if you don't think there is collusion in the oil and gas market then good luck to you.

[wagyl]

Let's look at those changes in price of raw materials. An oil barrel is 159 litres. Price two weeks ago is about USD 45 = JPY 5000. Price now is about USD 50 = JPY 5500. That is roughly 5 yen a litre increase in raw materials. Give them about a 100% margin for refining and retailing costs, and factor in the fact that it now costs them more in fuel prices to transport the petrol to your petrol station, and I can easily see half of your price increase. You mentioned smoothing price fluctuations by gambling in the futures market. I don't know the details this particular time, but those futures prices are only increasing over time at the moment, so maybe we were lucky in getting cheaper petrol over the last few months: a futures win has to be balanced with a futures loss.

There is a gasoline tax of 53.8 yen a litre (cheaper in Okinawa) and that is then, together with the petrol itself, subject to 8% consumption tax, so the component of the price at the pump which is fixed as tax (and tax on tax, but that is a separate argument) is over 58 yen.

In my view, a 23 yen rise in prices in two weeks is as outlandish as 20+ yen drops in two weeks even though the price of raw materials is not dropping proportionately, and that has happened in the recent past, too. You might not remember, I know I swore when I saw the prices on consecutive Mondays, having bought on the Sunday.

I recognise that the market is manipulated at the supplier level -- OPEC are pretty open about that -- but the retailers seem pretty cutthroat in competing with each other. If they weren't competing, none of them would display their prices on huge signs. Instead they would try to differentiate in other ways.

[Wage Slave]

In any case, I'm not sure where you are buying from. I filled up today and checked my last receipt:

22nd of May - 106 Yen a litre

2nd of June - 113 Yen a litre

[matsuki]

I filled up for 113 yesterday....I'm more annoyed at those prepaid card/cash schemes they got going on where the advertised price is always the 会員 or prepaid card price. I've pulled in and then pulled right back out again after seeing the CC price being unreasonably higher than the usual 1 or 2 yen discount for paying cash. (which isn't in your favor if you're paying by card and your card has a decent incentive program)

[canman]

Well up here in the sticks in 青森県 we are paying ¥128 for regular and ¥140 for hi-octane. Another way the in aka dwellers get screwed. A car is a necessity here, not like larger urban areas, but we pay more for gas.

[wagyl]

You have a natural gas terminal in Hachinohe, but your closest oil refinery is Sendai, and your fuel is probably trucked from there, if not from further away. That has a cost.

[Mike Oxlong]

Isn't a general rule that in summer gasoline prices rise, and in the autumn prices drop?

[Wage Slave]

A car is a necessity here, not like larger urban areas, but we pay more for gas.

Yes, but inakaites don't have to buy a monthly railcard - And they are far from cheap. And property prices are much lower.

[wagyl]

Shhhhhhhh, you'll just tempt him to complain that there is no international airport within easy reach, or that he is further from Mt Fuji than people in Tokyo, or something.

I'd be comfortable if this thread was "I see that fuel prices have increased, which makes me unhappy. But hey, I've got a new Audi, and that at least makes me happy, even though it uses the more expensive grade of fuel." But no, it is victimhood at the hands of political masters, even if belatedly claimed to be a joke. When that is pooh-poohed, it is at the hands of the masters of industry. Just like the complaints about mobile phone networks earlier.

OK, I admit it. They all have it in for you. They are particularly targetting you. As are the rest of us on this bulletin board. The Illuminati will be angry at me for revealing the honest truth to you, but WE have it in for YOU.

But you can solve this one yourself. Drive to Sendai to fill up. It will be cheaper there. It will cost you more in fuel and your time than the amount you save in a full tank of fuel, but you will be getting a better price. Or you can pay for the convenience of the fuel being transported to somewhere close to where you are.

The whole concept of being able to move a couple of tonnes of metal 12 or so kilometres distance for 140 yen is mindbogglingly cheap. You try pushing your car that distance for that money.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Admit it, wagyl. You're just jealous of his Audi.

[matsuki]

About that Audi....isn't the regular gas here the same as hi oct in other countries? I know the weird corn alcohol stuff in California is usually much lower octane with the added benefit of destroying any rubber/plastic internal bits it touches.

[wagyl]

About that Audi....isn't the regular gas here the same as hi oct in other countries? I know the weird corn alcohol stuff in California is usually much lower octane with the added benefit of destroying any rubber/plastic internal bits it touches.

"Other countries" does not start at the Pacific and end at the Atlantic. German regular petrol is apparently 95 octane. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_ra ... variations

There are two schools of thought. One is, Audi engines are OK on 91 octane, so Japanese regular petrol at 89 octane should not be greatly different. Try it, and if you get knocking, return to High octane.

The other is: you can afford a new Audi, you can afford to spend an extra 500 yen every couple of weeks when you fill up. Especially because you are buying nice machinery, why gum it up with less efficiently burning fuel?

[BigInJapan]

I wasn't aware that the price of gas had gone up recently, but I found a site that shows gas prices nationwide, and there is quite a range.
Down here in Fukuoka, regular ranges from 107-113 yen/litre, and high octane ranges from 117-125 yen/litre.

I found a site that shows gas prices around Japan, and it would seem that Chiba is the cheapest (reg. 110 yen), with parts of Tohoku indeed being the most expensive (Yamagata reg. 122 yen) - but not all (Akita is reg. 115 yen for example). I thought it might be something to do with Chiba being close to the port, and added costs for shipping farther away, but Akita-ken is near the cheap end for both regular and high octane.

Japan gas price site gogo.gs

You can choose your prefecture, or click on [ランキング] (crown icon) at the top to see the 全国トップ50 (top 50), or 都道府県平均 (average).

[wagyl]

Isn't a general rule that in summer gasoline prices rise, and in the autumn prices drop?

Look for patterns https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82%AC ... 5.E5.90.91

[matsuki]

About that Audi....isn't the regular gas here the same as hi oct in other countries? I know the weird corn alcohol stuff in California is usually much lower octane with the added benefit of destroying any rubber/plastic internal bits it touches.

"Other countries" does not start at the Pacific and end at the Atlantic. German regular petrol is apparently 95 octane. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_ra ... variations

There are two schools of thought. One is, Audi engines are OK on 91 octane, so Japanese regular petrol at 89 octane should not be greatly different. Try it, and if you get knocking, return to High octane.

The other is: you can afford a new Audi, you can afford to spend an extra 500 yen every couple of weeks when you fill up. Especially because you are buying nice machinery, why gum it up with less efficiently burning fuel?

Actually, it seems what made me think that is the AKI numbers I'm used to seeing....which would likely mean the California corn gas is negligibly better than what I've seen here.

Because of the 8 to 12 octane number difference between RON and MON noted above, the AKI shown in Canada and the United States is 4 to 6 octane numbers lower than elsewhere in the world for the same fuel.

[wuchan]

About that Audi....isn't the regular gas here the same as hi oct in other countries? I know the weird corn alcohol stuff in California is usually much lower octane with the added benefit of destroying any rubber/plastic internal bits it touches.

"Other countries" does not start at the Pacific and end at the Atlantic. German regular petrol is apparently 95 octane. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_ra ... variations

There are two schools of thought. One is, Audi engines are OK on 91 octane, so Japanese regular petrol at 89 octane should not be greatly different. Try it, and if you get knocking, return to High octane.

The other is: you can afford a new Audi, you can afford to spend an extra 500 yen every couple of weeks when you fill up. Especially because you are buying nice machinery, why gum it up with less efficiently burning fuel?

Each country has a different standard and different additives. This is why Koenigsegg imports gas from the customer's home country to tune each and every car they make. Japn has two RON (octane) fuels: regular 89 and high 96.

As automotive engine technology advances the more powerful engines are tuned to use 95 and above. GTR owners are having their cars retuned to run e85 (about 103 octane) and finding about 50 free horsepower. What goes in really effects what comes out. My car is 96 only otherwise it starts knocking.

[matsuki]

Mmmmmmmm GTR..



My soccormom-mobile is not so picky...but getting about 14km/L which is not bad for a 12yo beater.

[canman]

Today's price in Hachinohe! Hirosaki, which is further from Sendai is ¥22 yen cheaper. Go figure.

[wagyl]

I was going to say that whenever I am in Aomori, I buy along route 7 in Hirosaki. Maybe that is Akita influence.

[canman]

What would be bringing you to Aomori? Sightseeing, family, a little of both?

[wagyl]

Mountaineering and backcountry skiing. There wasn't enough snow at the right time so I didn't do it this year. Anyone going up that way: there is more to Hirosaki than just cherry blossoms and castle. There are hot springs in the middle of town, lacquerware traditions, shamisen, Meiji era westernish architecture, freshwater springs bubbling up in the town, and surprisingly a mature and thriving coffee culture and French cuisine culture. I usually do Mt Iwaki and north and south Hakkoda. Shimokita peninsula is worth a look too, but be prepared for it to take longer than you expect.