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  • fuckedgaijin ‹ General ‹ F*cked News

No Japanese, no service!

Odd news from Japan and all things Japanese around the world.
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No Japanese, no service!

Postby Samurai_Jerk » Sun Jun 26, 2016 3:33 pm

I stopped by a little Zainichi Korean owned izakaya that I know last night for a couple of beers and the killer pork and kimchi stew they make. They know me so I had no problem getting seated right away but I noticed that while I was there they turned away a group of what I guess were Taiwanese tourists because they didn't speak Japanese. I was pretty surprised because this is in one of the most touristy areas of already very touristy Asakusa and I was sure they used to have an English menu so I asked one of the guys working there that I know what the deal was.

Sure enough they'd gotten rid of their English menus and put up a sign in English that says they only accept customers with a "perfect understanding" of Japanese. He said he hated to tell me this but they'd just had one too many problems dealing with people who don't speak Japanese and finally gave up. He said he doesn't have a discriminatory bone in his body, his sister is married to a foreigner who he has a great relationship with, and they had tried different things to deal with the issue but they kept having problems.

First they had a comprehensive English menu but there are some things they didn't know how to explain like konnyaku so they just wrote them in romaji. Of course people would ask what they were but they couldn't tell them which would end up wasting a lot their time trying to communicate so they decided to leave some things off the menu that were hard to explain. Then they would get accused of discrimination for not putting everything on the English menu. They would also get accused of discrimination for not immediately taking an order when someone called them. This is one of the open-air places on Hoppy Dori and those of you who've been there know how noisy and busy it is. They didn't always hear when someone was trying to get their attention and the people ordering probably didn't understand the "少々お待ちください" acknowledging they'd been seen. The final straw was apparently when one FG got so furious and worked about discrimination because of what wasn't on the English menu that the cops eventually had to be called to calm things down. So now they've decided that if you don't have at least one competent Japanese speaker in your group they won't serve you. The sad irony is that accusations of discrimination have led them to discriminate.

I don't know how much of an overreaction it is on their part. The same extended family runs the place right next door and they still have an English menu and take foreigners. So do pretty much all of the other places on that street. I don't think they should be under any obligation to provide service in English but my instinct is to be bothered by the blanket ban. On the other hand it's hard not to sympathize with them.
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Re: No Japanese, no service!

Postby kagemusha » Sun Jun 26, 2016 4:33 pm

It's similar to the onsen-gate in Hokkaido years ago which gave a certain FG his 15 min' of fame. It's not racism, I don't ban you from my business for who you are but for the way you behave. There is the distance I am willing to go to accommodate your special culture gap but if it's either you or my livelihood - it's my way or the highway.
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Re: No Japanese, no service!

Postby wagyl » Sun Jun 26, 2016 4:54 pm

kagemusha wrote:a certain FG

How very dare you!
It's FNJ, I'll have you know, and you can lose the racism and complete the transaction!

Other than that, I concur with your comment. I can understand the Jerk's unease, but it sounds like the proprietors did what they could to accommodate, and when even that ended up in the police being involved, it just becomes easier to make your rules. It is only slightly different from running a club where only those introduced by current members can gain membership.
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Re: No Japanese, no service!

Postby wuchan » Sun Jun 26, 2016 5:16 pm

A lot of Tokyo restaurants are hiring gaijin that speak a bit of Japanese to take care of these problems.
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Re: No Japanese, no service!

Postby Grumpy Gramps » Sun Jun 26, 2016 6:50 pm

I don't have a problem with that, even if their reasons were purely racist. You don't want my money, just tell me at the front door and all is well because fuck you. It's just an izakaya.

I did have some sympathies for that certain FG back in his days of five minutes of fame, but at the end of the day it's just not worth my nerves and blood pressure.
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Re: No Japanese, no service!

Postby Samurai_Jerk » Sun Jun 26, 2016 8:33 pm

I'm always amazed by people who expect to get an elaborate explanation of everything on the menu from someone who doesn't speak their language. If you don't know what it is and you're not the type of person who will try anything, don't fucking order it. I went to Vietnam with a buddy who's allergic to chicken. The first thing he did after we checked into the hotel was have the guy at the front desk write "I'm allergic to chicken. Is there chicken in this?" on a piece of paper to show wait staff in restaurants. Beyond that we had no expectations
Faith is believing what you know ain't so. -- Mark Twain
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Re: No Japanese, no service!

Postby omae mona » Sun Jun 26, 2016 11:04 pm

The final straw was apparently when one FG got so furious and worked about discrimination because of what wasn't on the English menu that the cops eventually had to be called to calm things down.


If there were a way to prove it, I would have bet money that it wasn't a tourist, but rather a Debito-reading resident who has been in Japan for 1-2 years.

Is there a generational thing or an internet thing causing this phenomenon? When I landed in this country, not speaking a word of the language, I had my share of uncomfortable interactions and misunderstandings with shop staff and other Japanese people. Not once did it occur to me that it was caused by anything but my language skills and lack of knowledge about how things work in Japan, and I assumed I was the one causing the inconvenience. When I eventually figured out this god-forsaken language and all those issues went away, I realized I had been right. What is it with all the special snowflakes roaming around and being a pain in the ass lately?
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Re: No Japanese, no service!

Postby Samurai_Jerk » Sun Jun 26, 2016 11:38 pm

omae mona wrote:
The final straw was apparently when one FG got so furious and worked about discrimination because of what wasn't on the English menu that the cops eventually had to be called to calm things down.


If there were a way to prove it, I would have bet money that it wasn't a tourist, but rather a Debito-reading resident who has been in Japan for 1-2 years.


When he told me the story I said I bet it was someone who lived here because they sometimes develop a complex. He said that no the guy was a tourist. Maybe someone who used to live here. Apparently he understood enough Japanese to notice the difference between the English and Japanese menus which set him off.
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Re: No Japanese, no service!

Postby legion » Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:24 am

Samurai_Jerk wrote:
When he told me the story I said I bet it was someone who lived here because they sometimes develop a complex. He said that no the guy was a tourist. Maybe someone who used to live here. Apparently he understood enough Japanese to notice the difference between the English and Japanese menus which set him off.


Well, some people just don't react well when they encounter things that don't match their world view.



By the way, living of izakaya food is not good for your health.
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Re: No Japanese, no service!

Postby yanpa » Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:31 am

legion wrote:By the way, living of izakaya food is not good for your health.


Gawd, not another privileged white male dictating to the indigenous population?
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Re: No Japanese, no service!

Postby dimwit » Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:37 am

The initial problem sounds a lot like what my wife is like when she travels. She will spend stupid amounts of time getting staff to explain what everything on the menu is -essentially it is an extension of shopping. And of course in the environment of an Izakaya where speed is of the essence having a person cognative epilepsy doesn't cut it. But, I think that the restaurants' solution only make matters worse, in that it does give tourists a much more negative attitude towards Japan. The reality is that in a tourist area you are going to get tourists and a fair number of them are going to be really really dumb.
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Re: No Japanese, no service!

Postby legion » Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:44 am

yanpa wrote:
legion wrote:By the way, living of izakaya food is not good for your health.


Gawd, not another privileged white male dictating to the indigenous population?


Privileged in having a wife who cooks me a healthy balanced diet most of the time so I can indulge in junk food occasionally. which is exactly what the majority of the indigenous Shitamachius Salarimanius are also doing.
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Re: No Japanese, no service!

Postby legion » Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:46 am

dimwit wrote:The initial problem sounds a lot like what my wife is like when she travels. She will spend stupid amounts of time getting staff to explain what everything on the menu is -essentially it is an extension of shopping. And of course in the environment of an Izakaya where speed is of the essence having a person cognative epilepsy doesn't cut it. But, I think that the restaurants' solution only make matters worse, in that it does give tourists a much more negative attitude towards Japan. The reality is that in a tourist area you are going to get tourists and a fair number of them are going to be really really dumb.


Does she take photos of her food and post it on social media?
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Re: No Japanese, no service!

Postby dimwit » Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:52 am

legion wrote:Does she take photos of her food and post it on social media?


She does take photos of her food but she isn't on any SMS, so I am not sure what the point of doing it is.
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Re: No Japanese, no service!

Postby legion » Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:04 am

dimwit wrote:
legion wrote:Does she take photos of her food and post it on social media?


She does take photos of her food but she isn't on any SMS, so I am not sure what the point of doing it is.


That's a shame. I was hoping someone could enlighten me why people do this.
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Re: No Japanese, no service!

Postby Grumpy Gramps » Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:15 am

legion wrote:
dimwit wrote:
legion wrote:Does she take photos of her food and post it on social media?


She does take photos of her food but she isn't on any SMS, so I am not sure what the point of doing it is.


That's a shame. I was hoping someone could enlighten me why people do this.

Wifey, too. She even bought a little Nikon just for the purpose to take a pic of what she cooks. And those thousands of pics go nowhere.

And I have the pleasure of taking care of the ever growing lump of back-ups of the stuff. J-girls are weird **shrug**
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Re: No Japanese, no service!

Postby Samurai_Jerk » Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:50 am

legion wrote:
dimwit wrote:
legion wrote:Does she take photos of her food and post it on social media?


She does take photos of her food but she isn't on any SMS, so I am not sure what the point of doing it is.


That's a shame. I was hoping someone could enlighten me why people do this.


Better than the daily updates about people's kids or pets.
Faith is believing what you know ain't so. -- Mark Twain
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Re: No Japanese, no service!

Postby Coligny » Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:59 am

dimwit wrote:The initial problem sounds a lot like what my wife is like when she travels. She will spend stupid amounts of time getting staff to explain what everything on the menu is -essentially it is an extension of shopping. And of course in the environment of an Izakaya where speed is of the essence having a person cognative epilepsy doesn't cut it. But, I think that the restaurants' solution only make matters worse, in that it does give tourists a much more negative attitude towards Japan. The reality is that in a tourist area you are going to get tourists and a fair number of them are going to be really really dumb.


Mine know she won't know what to choose so just go:

"whut's good tonight" and after a quick description goes with it (unless it contains dog meat... looking at you worse korea)

if we stay long enough too be recognisable she just try at random the other stuff...

while I settle with daily cheezeburger downed with a B52 and a coke...
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Re: No Japanese, no service!

Postby dimwit » Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:18 am

Samurai_Jerk wrote:
legion wrote:
dimwit wrote:
legion wrote:Does she take photos of her food and post it on social media?


She does take photos of her food but she isn't on any SMS, so I am not sure what the point of doing it is.


That's a shame. I was hoping someone could enlighten me why people do this.


Better than the daily updates about people's kids or pets.


Yes but they fit into the same category. Exhibitionists with nothing to expose.
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Re: No Japanese, no service!

Postby Takechanpoo » Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:24 pm

dimwit wrote:The initial problem sounds a lot like what my wife is like when she travels. She will spend stupid amounts of time getting staff to explain what everything on the menu is -essentially it is an extension of shopping.

your wife sucks so much,( i move my speech along with the assumption yours are a full-time housewife) who believe the world is rotating on her as a pivot and take it for granted that herself behave like a "god" toward store clerks despite the pathetic fact that she even cant flush the toilet after poo and pee without the husbands money. when i see that type of kuso babas and jijis, i make it a rule to scold those creatures by dirty words and dirty way of speech(べらんめえ調). and then they go away with a face containing mixed emotions of anger, fear and humiliation. those housewives are most useless things on the earth, who misunderstand themselves on everything. why the fuck on earth dont you dump the ugly creature?
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Re: No Japanese, no service!

Postby matsuki » Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:37 pm

wuchan wrote:A lot of Tokyo restaurants are hiring gaijin that speak a bit of Japanese to take care of these problems.


...or a J-person that speaks English? Plenty of younglings with enough Engrish capability....or simply pay someone proficient in English to create a new English menu with detailed descriptions.

Not hard to sympathize with their foreign customer problems but several better options for them than banning Japanese skills lacking customers.
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Re: No Japanese, no service!

Postby wagyl » Mon Jun 27, 2016 4:00 pm

matsuki wrote:
wuchan wrote:A lot of Tokyo restaurants are hiring gaijin that speak a bit of Japanese to take care of these problems.


...or a J-person that speaks English? Plenty of younglings with enough Engrish capability....or simply pay someone proficient in English to create a new English menu with detailed descriptions.

Not hard to sympathize with their foreign customer problems but several better options for them than banning Japanese skills lacking customers.

That is the equivalent of saying if you have a dick, you are obliged to fuck every female in sight.... oh, wait.
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Re: No Japanese, no service!

Postby Samurai_Jerk » Mon Jun 27, 2016 4:26 pm

matsuki wrote:
wuchan wrote:A lot of Tokyo restaurants are hiring gaijin that speak a bit of Japanese to take care of these problems.


...or a J-person that speaks English? Plenty of younglings with enough Engrish capability....or simply pay someone proficient in English to create a new English menu with detailed descriptions.

Not hard to sympathize with their foreign customer problems but several better options for them than banning Japanese skills lacking customers.


It's a family business so most of the people working there are family. Also, hiring good part-timers isn't that easy for these places. The turnover is high and there's a lot of competition. Adding a language requirement just increases the difficulty. I have a lot of friends who run bars and restaurants here and they all have trouble getting staff.

I did make an English menu for a place awhile ago but it was a pizza restaurant with a limited menu so it was pretty easy. Mostly just rewriting katakana words in English. My payment for what was probably 15 mins of work was a case of wine which was more than I expected. I left it at the restaurant and opened a bottle whenever I stopped by for a pizza. An izakaya menu would be a lot more work. Plus you'd still get assholes complaining that the "today's specials" menu wasn't in English.
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Re: No Japanese, no service!

Postby matsuki » Mon Jun 27, 2016 5:12 pm

Fair enough on the language fluency but if business with FG is that bangin', it would seem worth it.

Yeah, and Izakaya menu wouldn't be a 15min job but it's not going to break the bank either. I've done a few menus for friends restaurants for a free meal. Assuming the FG brother in law speaks fluent English, he'd be the first person they could turn to. Daily specials could prove troublesome but you'd think it would be worth the business and save them headaches to give it a go with a properly translated English menu. (with detailed descriptions of the items like: Konyaku - Gelatinous yam cake) Unless their daily specials are literally different every day of the year, it wouldn't be too hard to get a basic list of those translated as well.
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Re: No Japanese, no service!

Postby wagyl » Mon Jun 27, 2016 5:32 pm

matsuki wrote:Fair enough on the language fluency but if business with FG is that bangin', it would seem worth it.

Truth is, these places are run off their feet with local trade, and don't need to cater for one off customers.
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Re: No Japanese, no service!

Postby Samurai_Jerk » Mon Jun 27, 2016 5:46 pm

wagyl wrote:
matsuki wrote:Fair enough on the language fluency but if business with FG is that bangin', it would seem worth it.

Truth is, these places are run off their feet with local trade, and don't need to cater for one off customers.


Not just that. In Asakusa they get more than enough Japanese tourists.

People who haven't been to Hoppy Dori probably don't understand just how busy that street is.

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Re: No Japanese, no service!

Postby wagyl » Mon Jun 27, 2016 6:51 pm

Chugoku mitai!
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Re: No Japanese, no service!

Postby dimwit » Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:42 am

Takechanpoo wrote:your wife sucks so much,( i move my speech along with the assumption yours are a full-time housewife) who believe the world is rotating on her as a pivot and take it for granted that herself behave like a "god" toward store clerks despite the pathetic fact that she even cant flush the toilet after poo and pee without the husbands money. when i see that type of kuso babas and jijis, i make it a rule to scold those creatures by dirty words and dirty way of speech(べらんめえ調). and then they go away with a face containing mixed emotions of anger, fear and humiliation. those housewives are most useless things on the earth, who misunderstand themselves on everything. why the fuck on earth dont you dump the ugly creature?


Where the hell did that come from? Have you been stealing Canman's menopausal medicine again? The stuff is really pretty bad for you. Remember Just Say No.
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Re: No Japanese, no service!

Postby kurogane » Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:07 am

Samurai_Jerk wrote:
I don't know how much of an overreaction it is on their part. The same extended family runs the place right next door and they still have an English menu and take foreigners. So do pretty much all of the other places on that street. I don't think they should be under any obligation to provide service in English but my instinct is to be bothered by the blanket ban. On the other hand it's hard not to sympathize with them.


I would say it's a resigned acceptance of a need to refuse potential business based on the opportunity cost of attracting same. The next door place might have more English capable staff, or a different approach? I wouldn't be bothered by the ban, and I will certainly be patronising them next time around, if they have non- Korean stew type dishes. This isn't a How Many Kanji Do You Know thing. The current tourist influx are simply too stupid for everybody's good; they think a smartphone can make it rainy or sunny on demand, and if well travelled enough or not travelled at all they simply will not believe that Japanese don't speak English. Indeed, they know they do and are simply refusing to do it out of spite and bigotry. It is 2016 after all :rolleyes:

So, was The FG in Question a white or an Anglospherical? Sounds like an attack of the WWDDs. Ex-eikaiwa types tend to hate Japan so much it makes their back teeth float, and worse, they claim expertise and understanding. And might I say, this makes Onsen-gate look like a war crime (do let's remember one daughter was refused based on her phenotypicals while her full sister was allowed in; that's revolting shiite, even if LaD is a stupid cvnt). So good on the FG for taking a lack of perspective to new levels of silliness, and not knowing that Japan has no relevant anti-discrimination laws. As Grumpy Gramps noted and as Rock Hudson found out at the end of Giant, businesses reserve the right to refuse service.
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Re: No Japanese, no service!

Postby matsuki » Tue Jun 28, 2016 2:57 pm

kurogane wrote:Japan has no relevant anti-discrimination laws. As Grumpy Gramps noted and as Rock Hudson found out at the end of Giant, businesses reserve the right to refuse service.


Riiiiight, but they aren't trying to discriminate or refuse as much as just avoid trouble based on their previous experiences with trying to be inclusive. They are free to do business as they will but they will also suffer the consequences of whatever they decide...and we all know if any SJW cares enough to take on the perceived slight, it can be embarrassing all around. I think we all understand their position but considering they are far from the only place that deals with foreign tourists...maybe the Japan tourism board or whatever organizations that are promoting tourism should be supporting them and other restaurants with some sort of English menu translation/support service?? Would certainly be a better use of money than hiring lame boy bands no foreigners have ever heard of to do commercials about how cool Japan is.
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