My Number

[BigInJapan]

I still haven't got my マイナンバー card yet, but after receiving some funds from Mom overseas for a grandkid's birthday, the bank lady that called for confirmation said that I really have to get one (by July maybe?).
It's Mrs. BIJ that is more paranoid about getting the my number cards after hearing about all the potential for abuse of banking info and sagi, etc. on the boobtube.

Are you talking about the full-fledged, optional, laminated photo ID card that you have to apply for? Or do you mean you still don't even have the original notification card that everybody gets?

If the former, I am shocked... is anybody claiming they are required? I thought that was not supposed to happen. If the latter, I am also shocked... I thought the government had successfully mailed these all out by now.

Option #1, I just have the notification card. The missus wants to hold off on getting anything official with photos etc. that could potentially be used for nefarious purposes.
The bank lady wanted to know my number, so I just told her I didn't have one yet. She gave me a hard time, but finally said alright, but you have to get one for the next time, and that was that.

[Samurai_Jerk]

I still haven't got my マイナンバー card yet, but after receiving some funds from Mom overseas for a grandkid's birthday, the bank lady that called for confirmation said that I really have to get one (by July maybe?).
It's Mrs. BIJ that is more paranoid about getting the my number cards after hearing about all the potential for abuse of banking info and sagi, etc. on the boobtube.

Are you talking about the full-fledged, optional, laminated photo ID card that you have to apply for? Or do you mean you still don't even have the original notification card that everybody gets?

If the former, I am shocked... is anybody claiming they are required? I thought that was not supposed to happen. If the latter, I am also shocked... I thought the government had successfully mailed these all out by now.

Option #1, I just have the notification card. The missus wants to hold off on getting anything official with photos etc. that could potentially be used for nefarious purposes.
The bank lady wanted to know my number, so I just told her I didn't have one yet. She gave me a hard time, but finally said alright, but you have to get one for the next time, and that was that.

All you need to show them is that paper one you already received.

[wagyl]

Just to repeat what appears many times in this thread, the paper notification of My Number is all that you need, but you will most likely be asked to provide a photo ID like a drivers licence at the same time. There is no requirement (but I keep wanting to add "at this stage") to get a gaijin-card-style photo and chip card made.

So, if you have the paper notification, you do indeed have a "My Number" already.

I do have anecdotal evidence of people, both Japanese and foreign, who claim that they didn't bother going to collect the notification letter (they were all sent out as registered mail and if you were not home you had to go to collect it from the post office). I don't know what has happened since for those people.

I also have anecdotal evidence of Japanese who are thoroughly confused about the (lack of) necessity for the photo card style ID. Just on Saturday, I was present while a married couple had a long discussion about it: the husband was convinced that he was obliged to go to the city office and notify them that he had received the envelope, even though that is the whole purpose of sending the notifications as registered mail.

We don't need me or you to comment on the whole concept that "a card with an IC chip and a photograph of the legitimate holder on it is more likely to be used in identity fraud than a piece of paper which just has a printed number, name, gender, address and date of birth." And this is probably the main reason why I think that the system will be tweaked in the future to require you to have the photo card.

[BigInJapan]

So, if you have the paper notification, you do indeed have a "My Number" already.

Yep, I just didn't want to give my number out to some faceless bank lady over the phone, and it turns out I didn't have to (this time).

I also have anecdotal evidence of Japanese who are thoroughly confused about the (lack of) necessity for the photo card style ID. Just on Saturday, I was present while a married couple had a long discussion about it: the husband was convinced that he was obliged to go to the city office and notify them that he had received the envelope, even though that is the whole purpose of sending the notifications as registered mail.

She asked me if I had a my number card (not the notification) so I said no. Then she told me that I am supposed to go to city hall, etc. to get an official my number card (BS).
I'm sure the bank has flagged my account so I'll probably have to provide the number next time (in which case I'll use my notification), but I'm not going to get the photo ID etc. anytime soon. Who knows, in the future maybe they'll implement the use of a fingerprint on the card, just like they did for the gaijin card way back when...

[wagyl]

Hopefully, the bank wouldn't accept any old random 12 digit number told to them over the phone.

[Grumpy Gramps]

If the MyNumber is worth anything, one of the digits, usually the last, should be a check digit, so with a random 12 digit number, you will have a hard time to get that one right if you don't know the algorithm.

But then TIJ, the bank lady might as well not know how to check or the J-gov "forgot" to implement the check digit and we all will have to get a new number further down the road, when the system has been exploited by some clever wizards...

[wagyl]

Yes the twelfth digit is a checksum digit. I also doubt that the banks have been let in on the checksum algorithm.*

The process for registering the My Number at all the banks I tried, was to fill in a prepared form and present the card or notification in person with your passbook, and your driver's licence. I severely doubt that the banks are asking you to tell them what your number is over the phone without seeing the card or paper notification with their own eyes. Even if I don't use a random number, over the phone, I could use your My Number rather than my My Number.

* The My Number is an algorithmically morphed version of the 11 digit Jukinet number, with an extra checksum digit. The Jukinet number was a 10 digit number with an extra checksum digit. In that same discussion with the married couple I referred to above, the wife was saying that she had put the Jukinet number notification in a safe place, and never once needed to use it. I still don't understand why they needed to create this new My Number, and what the deficiencies were with the Jukinet number, except that it had a bad reputation with the "I am not a number, I am a free man" crowd.

I also don't understand why that crowd was so vocal during the birth of Jukinet, and so silent during the birth of My Number.

[matsuki]

I got my Shinsei notification by mail asking me to register my my number or that services may not be available...in a few years.

Has anyone applied for a credit card since the my numbers were issued? Are they actually registering the number?

[wagyl]

Has anyone applied for a credit card since the my numbers were issued? Are they actually registering the number?

What makes you think that it is related to credit cards?

Have you actually read the thread?

[matsuki]

Has anyone applied for a credit card since the my numbers were issued? Are they actually registering the number?

What makes you think that it is related to credit cards?

Have you actually read the thread?

Just wondering if the credit reporting agencies are going to use the my number for ID purposes like they use SSN in the US. (where it is required when applying)

[wagyl]

While allowing commercial operations access to My Number is under consideration, it is not yet permitted,

http://www.cas.go.jp/jp/seisaku/bangose ... h-faq.html

Q 1-4 Who will use my Individual Number, and in what situations will they use it?

A 1-4 Individual Numbers will be used by central government organizations, local governments, and others in the areas of social security administration, taxation, and disaster response.
Accordingly, residents will be asked to provide their Individual Number on application forms and other documents needed for procedures for the national pension, unemployment insurance, and medical insurance schemes; receipt of public assistance, child allowances, and other welfare benefits; and tax procedures, such as the filing of tax returns.
There are cases in which business owners, securities companies, insurance companies, and others handle taxation and social insurance procedures on behalf of individuals. Consequently, residents may be required to provide their Individual Number to their place of employment or financial institutions, such as securities or insurance companies.
It should be noted that the purposes for which administrative organs can use Individual Numbers are established in laws and ordinances, and that the use of Individual Numbers in any other purpose is prohibited.

Q 7-1 There is talk of private-sector use. How will that develop?

A 7-1 Private-sector use is something that will be studied around three years after the Number Use Act comes into effect. Circumstances surrounding the law's execution will be considered at that time. If, as a result, it is determined that there is a need for private-sector use, necessary measures will be implemented alongside efforts to gain the public's understanding for such need.
In truth, the Number Use Act will be executed in stages. However, the phrase "act comes into effect" as it is used here refers to the time when the public will be notified of their Individual Numbers, which is scheduled for October 2015.

and answering my question:

Q 1-7 Why can't the resident record code be used as is?

A 1-7 The main reasons are that drastic operational reforms would be required because the "resident record code" was never envisioned to be used like the Individual Number, and that many participating in the public comment phase expressed the view that new numbers should be used.

Whether those perceived deficiencies are properly addressed by creating a new number based on the old number, I don't know, but it seems it was enough to keep people quiet.

[yanpa]

FWIW I have just spent some quality time at Immigration and the Kuyakusho to gather the multifarious pieces of paper required by Immigration to prove that I am the same person as I was 3 years ago, and not once was the "My Number" mentioned.

Meanwhile, there still exists the koseki-touhon (in this case my wife's), which can only be obtained by knowing the address it was registered under, WTF.

[wagyl]

And it used to be as easy as looking at her drivers licence, but since that can reveal burakumin origins they removed that item.

Even more amusingly, there is no requirement that the registrant have any connection with the honseki in the koseki. There is apparently a remarkably large number of people registered with a honseki of Chiyoda-ku Chiyoda 1-ban.

[legion]

FWIW I have just spent some quality time at Immigration and the Kuyakusho to gather the multifarious pieces of paper required by Immigration to prove that I am the same person as I was 3 years ago, and not once was the "My Number" mentioned.

where we already have a number denoting us as legal aliens

gaijin are very low down on the list of My Number priorities, it will be a while before a My Number civil servant girds his or her loins and decides to take on the immigration fiefdom.

[yanpa]

FWIW I have just spent some quality time at Immigration and the Kuyakusho to gather the multifarious pieces of paper required by Immigration to prove that I am the same person as I was 3 years ago, and not once was the "My Number" mentioned.

where we already have a number denoting us as legal aliens

gaijin are very low down on the list of My Number priorities, it will be a while before a My Number civil servant girds his or her loins and decides to take on the immigration fiefdom.

Yeah, the immigration forms are touchingly familiar, but I was half expecting the kuyakusho to make noises about it, there were enough signs up everywhere, but it seems they have their work cut out dealing with people unable to to remember the koseki-touhon address (I wasn't the only one).

[yanpa]

Even more amusingly, there is no requirement that the registrant have any connection with the honseki in the koseki. There is apparently a remarkably large number of people registered with a honseki of Chiyoda-ku Chiyoda 1-ban.

That was exactly what Mrs. Yanpa was told when liberating her record from the family seat (itself recorded in an archaic address format). Not an original choice - personally I'd go for a much more ichiban address next door.

[Samurai_Jerk]

So I applied for one of those My Number photo ID cards online just for shits and giggles. A few weeks later I got a registered letter in the mail saying that because the information the city office had on me was outdated they couldn't send me an ID until it was updated. They also enclosed a form with relevant information that I needed to sign and send to city hall but didn't actually point out what the problem was. They told me to call city hall with any questions so I did.

City hall told me that they don't handle that because it's managed by the national government so they weren't sure. When I explained I was told to call them they said they'd do some research and get back to me. The issue was solved. Between the time I was issued a My Number and applied for the photo ID I got permanent residency. However, the QR code needed for the online application still contained information that shows an expiration date for my period of stay. So even though the national government handles administration of immigration issues and the My Number photo ID and I wasn't required to report my change in status to city hall, because they didn't have that information the card couldn't be issued. On top of that even though the national government already informed city hall of the change and all other info from my ZRC matches the info city hall has, I still have to sign and stamp that piece of paper and mail it in. Let's see what happens next.

I guess the lesson to learn from this is that even though you don't have to inform city hall about change in residence status anymore you probably should because I'm sure there are other things beside this it could effect.

By the way, the guy at city hall I spoke with on the phone kept inserting unnecessary Engrish into his Japanese explanation which only confused me more. And that was before he looked my file up and knew where I hail from. He seemed extremely excited to be dealing with it though. Probably a nice break from the monotony of the usual questions he gets.

[wagyl]

I guess the lesson to learn from this is that even though you don't have to inform city hall about change in residence status anymore you probably should because I'm sure there are other things beside this it could effect.

However, this is sure to be met with "we don't deal with any of that any more." This is what was said to me when asking about where to go for details of old Gaijin Card records, and I even prefaced it by saying that I knew as much. You might be PR, but you are not integrated: I would recommend getting all zen and dealling with such things on a case by case basis, just like they would. But thanks for that heads up, anyway.

By the way, the guy at city hall I spoke with on the phone kept inserting unnecessary Engrish into his Japanese explanation which only confused me more. And that was before he looked my file up and knew where I hail from. He seemed extremely excited to be dealing with it though. Probably a nice break from the monotony of the usual questions he gets.

It doesn't matter whether he knows you are from the Anglosphere or not, you are non-Kanji foreign, therefore you are to be communicated with the level of English he feels comfortable with, notwithstanding the fluency of your reply. This is not a universal rule, as Matsuki may discover in Niigata and near other ports on the Japan Sea coast. Здравствуйте!

[matsuki]

You didn't like his Engrish freebaa SJ? Did you surusuru it or ansaaa?

Wags is right, "Oi Ruuskie!" with me looking behind me to see who the fuck they're talking to is not too uncommon....though my new fureebaa is Russian so that is sure to make things even more anbareebaburu to the locals.

[Samurai_Jerk]

However, this is sure to be met with "we don't deal with any of that any more." This is what was said to me when asking about where to go for details of old Gaijin Card records, and I even prefaced it by saying that I knew as much. You might be PR, but you are not integrated: I would recommend getting all zen and dealling with such things on a case by case basis, just like they would. But thanks for that heads up, anyway.

It depends on where that info was coming from. If it was from a juminhyo, it might be worth updating.

though my new fureebaa is Russian so that is sure to make things even more anbareebaburu to the locals.

Do you guys speak to each other in English or Japanese? You should see the looks my tall blonde beautiful Russian friend and I get when speaking Japanese. Or maybe they're staring because they can't believe I'm hitting that (I'm not but people assume).

[matsuki]

Her Japanese is terrible but when they find out she's a PHD student instead of the high end Russian hostess they assumed, the jaws be droppin'.

[wagyl]

Her Japanese is terrible but when they find out she's a PHD student instead of the high end Russian hostess they assumed, the jaws be droppin'.

What is stopping her being both?

Girls can do anything, you know!

[matsuki]

Her Japanese is terrible but when they find out she's a PHD student instead of the high end Russian hostess they assumed, the jaws be droppin'.

What is stopping her being both?

Girls can do anything, you know!

[omae mona]

For fuck's sake, Japanese People!

So I got excited a few months ago when I saw you could apply for the photo ID card online, as SJ did also. In fact, I was very impressed with the government's ability to set up a mobile-friendly site that let me submit the photo from my phone and do the whole thing securely using codes that were on my tsuuchi card. Japanese government has finally started using technology properly, I thought!

Then 3 months passed with no contact.

Then today, an envelope shows up via mail. For a moment I thought "great - just like the tsuuchi card, my card has been delivered to my home as expected. A little slow, but that's OK". But then I looked more closely. A postage stamp was affixed by hand, and inside, there was no card. Instead, there is a photocopied sheet of paper, folded by somebody who had taken a pink highlighter and highlighted several key points. Bottom line is, congratulations, your card is ready. To get it, you need to call up your local city office, make an appointment, and then show up at the designated time with no fewer than 5 documents proving your identity (the enclosed postcard, your tsuuchi card, some kind of government photo ID, your juuminhyou issuance card, and your inkan registration card). Welcome back to 1990.

I guess I can see the need to verify in person that the photo I submitted is actually a photo of me. But this seems like overkill. After the nice convenient online application which I did just for the heck of it, since it was easy, now I have to decide whether to take time off from work to visit the ward office on a weekday, or just abandon the card. Leaning toward abandonment...

[dimwit]

Don't be so hard on them. I'm sure they would have not taken so long to respond if their fax machine hadn't run out of the special paper needed to operate it.

[Samurai_Jerk]

For fuck's sake, Japanese People!

So I got excited a few months ago when I saw you could apply for the photo ID card online, as SJ did also. In fact, I was very impressed with the government's ability to set up a mobile-friendly site that let me submit the photo from my phone and do the whole thing securely using codes that were on my tsuuchi card. Japanese government has finally started using technology properly, I thought!

Then 3 months passed with no contact.

Then today, an envelope shows up via mail. For a moment I thought "great - just like the tsuuchi card, my card has been delivered to my home as expected. A little slow, but that's OK". But then I looked more closely. A postage stamp was affixed by hand, and inside, there was no card. Instead, there is a photocopied sheet of paper, folded by somebody who had taken a pink highlighter and highlighted several key points. Bottom line is, congratulations, your card is ready. To get it, you need to call up your local city office, make an appointment, and then show up at the designated time with no fewer than 5 documents proving your identity (the enclosed postcard, your tsuuchi card, some kind of government photo ID, your juuminhyou issuance card, and your inkan registration card). Welcome back to 1990.

I guess I can see the need to verify in person that the photo I submitted is actually a photo of me. But this seems like overkill. After the nice convenient online application which I did just for the heck of it, since it was easy, now I have to decide whether to take time off from work to visit the ward office on a weekday, or just abandon the card. Leaning toward abandonment...

Oh great. Is that what I have to look forward to?

At least the ward offices in Tokyo have weekend hours.

[omae mona]

At least the ward offices in Tokyo have weekend hours.

Not mine. They were kind enough to print out my assigned location's opening hours... 8:30-17:00 on weekdays, closed on weekends. (ok, to their credit, they are open until 19:00 on Wednesdays, but that is prime time for pouring champagne for my kabukicho clients while I sit with them... I will be fired if I skip a day).

[Takechanpoo]

the diffusion rate of Mai Nanbaa is approximately 5%
http://wpb.shueisha.co.jp/2016/07/18/68276/

[Coligny]

the diffusion rate of Mai Nanbaa is approximately 5%
http://wpb.shueisha.co.jp/2016/07/18/68276/

Ok, so I wont pretend that I understand anything about the chimp's post,
but usually...
For serious news...
I try to avoid publication that include pr0n books reviews...

image.jpeg

Link: http://wpb.shueisha.co.jp/2016/07/15/68033/
Not sure i will order this one anyway...

[wagyl]

I think they are doing pretty well to get 5% of the population to order the photo card, especially when you can do everything with the paper notification and a driver's licence. I'm also pretty happy that only one in twenty follow such mindless "recommendations" that life will be more "benri" (without mentioning for whom) if you get a card made. Another win for the mighty force of inertia!