Keeping PR while living abroad

[gaijinpunch]

Hey kids. Been a while. I have a job in a real company now, and obviously the work filter goes bananas on the URL here.

I have a few years left, but still want to be prepared. I've got friends that have PR, live abroad, and have cum back to Japan for a few weeks to get all their ducks in a row. In fact, the guy that has offered his sofa when the time comes just did it for another friend so I'm thinking it's somewhat trivial.

Right now, I have the stamp, which shouldn't expire until about this time in 2019. My Zairyu card lasts until about this time 2020. SOO.... If I go back to Japan for a few weeks to get another 5-year re-entry permit, will I need to go register an address and all that shit? I know in Japan the left hand doesn't really know what the right hand is doing (usually it's way up the ass) but that would be quite a stupid blunder if I cocked it up. I know I could realistically go to the ward office, register, go get the re-entry stamp from immigration, and then at some point tell the ward office I'm bailing. (Gomen ne... shigoto).

How about the zairyu card. Those need to be renewed, right? Do I need to go spend time while they print that shit out at Kinkos and mail it to me?

Ideas welcome... snark is fine too.

[kurogane]

QUITTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Hey there and good luck with that. The assembled Magi shall arrive soon I am sure. Have you thought about keeping a JPN post box address somewhere, preferably one that can be used like a proper address and have any mail forwarded? Or just register as cohabitating with a friend? Anyhoo

[wagyl]

1. Zairyu cards are prepared in about 10 minutes, but you need to front up to an Immigration office to do it.

2. Your zairyu card is already registered at an address, maybe it was your last address in Japan. Tax details and pension and health insurance will also be at that address. Since immigration letters are usually not able to be forwarded to another address, I would tend to use a trusted friend's address for registration. It becomes a headache when the friend chooses to move house, however.

3. Your proposal to register at that new address if necessary and then apply for the long term re-entry permit is feasible.

4. I can understand the desire to keep options open, but is it really necessary to hold on to PR if you are not living and working here? Yes, I know that reluctance to give up something hard-won, but not only are there these bureaucratic inconveniences you are raising here today, there are tax and social insurance implications with holding on to PR, and if you are not going to be working here (and especially not in one of the "restricted unless you are on spouse or PR" jobs) then the pretty generous tourist visas or a normal working visa should be fine for your needs in the future. Think about it carefully, but a clean break might be best in the long run.

5. There is a process for handing back your Zairyu card overseas.

Q80：
I left Japan with a plan to re-entry, but after departure, I decided not to return to Japan. What should I do with my residence card? If I am supposed to return it, where should I send it?

A.
If a mid- to long-term resident who leaves the country with re-entry permission does not make re-entry during the validation period of the re-entry permission, he or she must return residence card to the Minister of Justice within 14 days after the date that the event occurred. In this case, please send residence card to the following office:
Tokyo Port Bay Joint Office 9F, 2-7-11. Aomi, Koto-ku, Tokyo-to 135-0064
Tokyo Immigration Bureau, Odaiba office"

Q81：
Is a penalty applied in case the obligation to return the residence card was not fulfilled even I am outside Japan with permission of reentry etc.?

A.
If the obligation to return residence card is not fulfilled, you may be punished with a fine not exceeding 200,000 yen. If your residence card expires while you are outside Japan with the permission of re-entry etc., you don’t fulfill the obligation to return it, and you enter Japan again, you will be subject to a penalty.

http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/newimmiact_1/ ... page2.html

6. I'll bring frankincense and myrrh. You bring the gold.

[Grumpy Gramps]

You might need a MyNumber number, too now.

[gaijinpunch]

QUITTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Hey there and good luck with that. The assembled Magi shall arrive soon I am sure. Have you thought about keeping a JPN post box address somewhere, preferably one that can be used like a proper address and have any mail forwarded? Or just register as cohabitating with a friend? Anyhoo

Yep, sure have -- and fucked it all up. BUT, I have my bank accounts still so there's no real rush. I do have a place I can register and do that in a pinch though. Same ward as before, too! It's actually a lot easier than you think. I mean, Japan relaxed the rules on keeping your visa quite recently. I know a few people that have gone back to Japan extended vacations to keep their visas up... multiple times. Their logic was, "it's a stupid thing to give up if you don't have to".

wagyls' response

Yes, thought about all those, and definitely want to hang on to the visa. I don't know anyone that's knowingly given it up. I'm a non-resident, (it's eijuu-ken... emphasis on the ken) so there should be zero tax implications while not living in Japan. I did quite a bit of research on this topic but always willing to hear more. I mean, my future ex wife is Japanese, but a non-resident. Doesn't even file taxes. Japan and US have a tax treaty as well.

I'm not 100% sure, but there is a very good chance I semi-retire and retire there after another 10 years or so. I know that's way down the line, but it's making a lot of sense. I'm in the US. If you don't work a full 40 hour work week here you can't get insurance. Then you get one cold and you die in debt. I'll also never get used to the gun thing.

[wagyl]

Related to all this, I see that there is a way to voluntarily deregister yourself from the juminhyou if going overseas for more than a year: Kaigai Tenshutsu Todoke.

• Benefits: Become non-resident for tax purposes.
• Potentially neutral: Unable to continue to make pension contributions (Japanese can opt in to continuing, non-Japanese lose right to continue). You can withdraw from health insurance.
• Disadvantages: It becomes impossible to create new credit cards or life insurance policies.

However, I note that changing address on your juminhyou is deemed to be a change of address for Zairyu card purposes. I am surprised and interested to see that the Zairyu Card system seems cool with you registering a foreign address, since they also specifically say that the address on the Zairyu Card must be an address in Japan.

Q101：
In the purpose of long-term stay, I moved out from my Japanese address to live in a foreign country. In this case, I can’t give notification of my new address. What should I do? And also, will non-notification of new address result in cancellation of my status of residence?

A.
The address is a place of the principal residence in Japan. If you have a principal residence in Japan, the address will appear on residence card. If you have no longer have the address to stay oversea for a long time, no notification is necessary to the Minister of Justice. But please give the notification of moving out under the Act of the Basic Resident Registers at the municipal office. For mid- to long term residents, if you don’t notify the new address within 90 days of departure from the address, it constitutes the ground of cancellation of the resident status. But if you have a legitimate reason not to give notification, it will not be cancelled."

http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/newimmiact_1/ ... page2.html

I have no idea where your juminhyou is then kept, or what address you are supposed to use for Zairyu Card/Immigration purposes.
This procedure does, however, show that you can avoid the tax and social insurance implications of keeping PR, and eat your mixed metaphors too.

Related to the My Number issue, those who have removed themselves from the juminhyou by Kaigai Tenshutsu Todoke do not have a juminhyou, and will not have a My Number, and those without a My Number are not required to present it (doh!)

Ｑ2－8－2　海外勤務者（住民票を持たない非居住者）で、マイナンバーが付番されない場合、社会保険等の特別加入においては、非居住者としてマイナンバーは記載しないでよいでしょうか。
また、本人は海外勤務で、家族を日本に残していく場合はどのような対応をしたらよいでしょうか。

Ａ2－8－2　住民票を除票して海外に転出した人にはマイナンバーは付番されません。このため、この間にマイナンバーが必要となる手続きをしなければならない場合は、空欄で提出してください。マイナンバーがない人の場合、記載の義務はありません。
　また、本人が海外に単身赴任をした場合、本人のマイナンバーがなかったり、凍結されたりしていても、国内に居住する家族にはマイナンバーが付番されます。家族のマイナンバーが必要な場合には、本人が確認して会社に提供する義務があります。（2015年9月回答）

http://www.cas.go.jp/jp/seisaku/bangose ... /faq2.html
which raises more issues where a Japanese national can remove themselves from the juminhyou but still keep making pension contributions, without a My Number.

[gaijinpunch]

Cool stuff --- cheers.

LIfe insurance policies

Maybe I didn't search around enough but the one I got there was crap compared to here in the US. Costs about 40% of what that one does and pays out about double.

[Isle of View]

Long-term foreign Japan residents must declare overseas assets — and could be taxed on them

[Wage Slave]

Long-term foreign Japan residents must declare overseas assets — and could be taxed on them

If this is news to you, then I suggest you might not have been paying enough attention. There's also gift and inheritance tax to worry about.

[Grumpy Gramps]

However:

If someone has ¥60 million in assets overseas, combined in bank accounts, antiques, a house, etc., the new overseas assets reporting (OAR) form comes into play.

So, if your foreign assets are below threshold, you don't need to worry.

[Yokohammer]

However:

If someone has ¥60 million in assets overseas, combined in bank accounts, antiques, a house, etc., the new overseas assets reporting (OAR) form comes into play.

So, if your foreign assets are below threshold, you don't need to worry.

That's how I interpret it. The threshold is 50 million. Below that you don't have to report.

However, that point is not crystal clear so I have just sent off an email to my tax accountant and will get back to you as soon as I receive his answer.

[Wage Slave]

You don't have to report the assets if they are below 50 million but you do have to report and pay tax on the income.

[Yokohammer]

You don't have to report the assets if they are below 50 million but you do have to report and pay tax on the income.

But suppose you have a couple hundred thousand shekels sitting in an overseas account, less than 50 million yen, drawing 1 ~ 2% yearly. That's not much.

That's the sort of thing I want to confirm.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Wage Slave]

You don't have to report the assets if they are below 50 million but you do have to report and pay tax on the income.

But suppose you have a couple hundred thousand shekels sitting in an overseas account, less than 50 million yen, drawing 1 ~ 2% yearly. That's not much.

That's the sort of thing I want to confirm.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I can confirm. You have to report that income and pay tax on it in the normal way. You do not have to report the assets that generate the income.

[wagyl]

It is always good to confirm these things for yourself, but I agree that my understanding of the rules is that the reporting obligation only arises if your assets exceed a Yen value threshold based on the official annual exchange rate as defined by the tax authorities.

The issue about whether you have to pay tax on the income from investing those assets is completely separate. This has not changed: if you are resident, and have been for at least five of the last ten years, then you are a resident for tax purposes, and your global income is used in calculating tax liability in Japan. This is so whatever the value threshold.

The reporting of overseas assets is, I think, designed to flush out inheritance by the next generation of assets bought during the bubble era by their parents. Even with the closer sharing of tax affairs between countries, details of asset transfer are often not kept centrally and shared with other countries, so Japan feels the need to create its own record of foreign assets held by residents, to get more accurate and comprehensive data to calculate inheritance tax. This is especially so if your asset list has changed greatly from one year to the next.

[Yokohammer]

You don't have to report the assets if they are below 50 million but you do have to report and pay tax on the income.

But suppose you have a couple hundred thousand shekels sitting in an overseas account, less than 50 million yen, drawing 1 ~ 2% yearly. That's not much.

That's the sort of thing I want to confirm.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I can confirm. You have to report that income and pay tax on it in the normal way. You do not have to report the assets that generate the income.

Apparently not. Here's what I got from my accountant.

I asked: "So supposing I had the equivalent of about 30 million yen in an Australian bank, earning 1~2% interest. Is that interest taxable in Japan? Am I obliged to file?"

His answer: "Only if the capital plus interest exceeds 50 million yen, calculated at the exchange rate on December 31 of that year."

And that's why it's a good idea to check with a pro. If you're close to the threshold you'll need to keep an eye on the exchange rate.

[wagyl]

You don't have to report the assets if they are below 50 million but you do have to report and pay tax on the income.

But suppose you have a couple hundred thousand shekels sitting in an overseas account, less than 50 million yen, drawing 1 ~ 2% yearly. That's not much.

That's the sort of thing I want to confirm.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I can confirm. You have to report that income and pay tax on it in the normal way. You do not have to report the assets that generate the income.

Apparently not. Here's what I got from my accountant.

I asked: "So supposing I had the equivalent of about 30 million yen in an Australian bank, earning 1~2% interest. Is that interest taxable in Japan? Am I obliged to file?"

His answer: "Only if the capital plus interest exceeds 50 million yen, calculated at the exchange rate on December 31 of that year."

And that's why it's a good idea to check with a pro. If you're close to the threshold you'll need to keep an eye on the exchange rate.

Is that answer about the reporting obligation for assets, or about the reporting obligation for income (taxable nature of the interest income)? I fear that that is still ambiguous. I would advise asking one question only per paragraph. At times, I advise asking one question only per e-mail.

[Yokohammer]

You don't have to report the assets if they are below 50 million but you do have to report and pay tax on the income.

But suppose you have a couple hundred thousand shekels sitting in an overseas account, less than 50 million yen, drawing 1 ~ 2% yearly. That's not much.

That's the sort of thing I want to confirm.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I can confirm. You have to report that income and pay tax on it in the normal way. You do not have to report the assets that generate the income.

Apparently not. Here's what I got from my accountant.

I asked: "So supposing I had the equivalent of about 30 million yen in an Australian bank, earning 1~2% interest. Is that interest taxable in Japan? Am I obliged to file?"

His answer: "Only if the capital plus interest exceeds 50 million yen, calculated at the exchange rate on December 31 of that year."

And that's why it's a good idea to check with a pro. If you're close to the threshold you'll need to keep an eye on the exchange rate.

Is that answer about the reporting obligation for assets, or about the reporting obligation for income (taxable nature of the interest income)? I fear that that is still ambiguous. I would advise asking one question only per paragraph. At times, I advise asking one question only per e-mail.
Is that answer about the reporting obligation for assets, or about the reporting obligation for income (taxable nature of the interest income)?

That question and answer were specifically about a bank account earning interest.

There were a couple of other emails involved, in which I was informed that there is no reporting obligation if you're below the threshold. I did not ask about fixed assets such as property, capital gains on fixed assets, or income from a business, for example.

The overall conclusion for a bank account earning interest seems to be that you are neither obliged to report nor liable for tax as long as the total, calculated at the December 31 exchange rate, is less than 50 million yen.

[Wage Slave]

You don't have to report the assets if they are below 50 million but you do have to report and pay tax on the income.

But suppose you have a couple hundred thousand shekels sitting in an overseas account, less than 50 million yen, drawing 1 ~ 2% yearly. That's not much.

That's the sort of thing I want to confirm.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I can confirm. You have to report that income and pay tax on it in the normal way. You do not have to report the assets that generate the income.

Apparently not. Here's what I got from my accountant.

I asked: "So supposing I had the equivalent of about 30 million yen in an Australian bank, earning 1~2% interest. Is that interest taxable in Japan? Am I obliged to file?"

His answer: "Only if the capital plus interest exceeds 50 million yen, calculated at the exchange rate on December 31 of that year."

And that's why it's a good idea to check with a pro. If you're close to the threshold you'll need to keep an eye on the exchange rate.

Is that answer about the reporting obligation for assets, or about the reporting obligation for income (taxable nature of the interest income)? I fear that that is still ambiguous. I would advise asking one question only per paragraph. At times, I advise asking one question only per e-mail.
Is that answer about the reporting obligation for assets, or about the reporting obligation for income (taxable nature of the interest income)?

That question and answer were specifically about a bank account earning interest.

There were a couple of other emails involved, in which I was informed that there is no reporting obligation if you're below the threshold. I did not ask about fixed assets such as property, capital gains on fixed assets, or income from a business, for example.

The overall conclusion for a bank account earning interest seems to be that you are neither obliged to report nor liable for tax as long as the total, calculated at the December 31 exchange rate, is less than 50 million yen.

Well, my tax office begs to differ. And have done so for the last 4 years. And at least 3 different officers concerned went away and checked. I do not have to report my bank accounts but I do have to report my income abroad. There is a handy box on the tax form just for that and the guidance notes make it clear that all overseas income is taxable.

I would get a second opinion or even better ask the tax office directly.

[legion]

I thought it was 30 million.

Thank Boris for Brexit, cos my savings are now worth diddly squat, ha! take that taxman, I think you owe me money!

[Yokohammer]

...

Well, my tax office begs to differ. And have done so for the last 4 years. And at least 3 different officers concerned went away and checked. I do not have to report my bank accounts but I do have to report my income abroad. There is a handy box on the tax form just for that and the guidance notes make it clear that all overseas income is taxable.

I would get a second opinion or even better ask the tax office directly.

More info.

I just spent some time on the phone with my accountant, and it's a little more complicated than simply "you must report all overseas income." The tax office is likely to just say, "declare everything", but apparently the legal obligations are not quite as cut and dried. It seems that there are a number of categories that apply if your overseas income is low, as in, for example, interest on a moderate bank balance. Depending on your individual situation, you might not have to report if your overseas income is the equivalent of a few hundred thousand yen or less.

The asset reporting obligation is as described above.

The new regulations were introduced only about two years ago, so people are understandably confused. But apparently lots of people are being "caught" and penalized.

The bottom line is that the tax office, because they are working to maximize benefit for the government, will give you a slightly different story than a hired accountant, who is working to maximize benefit for his or her client (or should be). All within the bounds of the law, of course. The rules change according to individual situations, so I will refrain from making any blanket "this is how it works" statements, other than to say that if you want individualized details that might save you some effort and money, you should probably have a chat with an independent certified tax accountant. Because my tax status has changed since last year (as I mentioned elsewhere, I folded my "yugen kaisha" and am now working independently), I will need to have a documents-on-the-table face-to-face with mine before the next tax deadline to sort it all out.