WE'RE NUMBER ONE (oh two)!

[Takechanpoo]

probably this is one of the reasons to be overrated.

japanese school is a factory to plant the obsession excessively adjusting to others into the deep psyche of the kids brain.

[wuchan]

Japanese public schools have been a military institution since the Meji "revolution". The US occupying forces, military, respected the system and allowed it to continue. The horrible truth behind the occupation was the academics didn't believe Japan held any value due to it's backwards feudal system and lack of respect for the general population. The academics of the 1940's believed that Japan wouldn't evolve to "western" standards before 2050. In many respects, they may have been correct.


EDIT: shit, I forgot... takeapoop can't read.

[Takechanpoo]

Japan wouldn't evolve to "western" standards

right. the answer is that j-society doesnt have a monotheism or something equivalent to it.
easy to understand it but difficult to change.

[Grumpy Gramps]

This might as well have been the best thing that happened to Japan after the war. Raised generations of "bots" and turned Japan into a factory of the world's finest cars and electronics in the 1980ies and 90ies.

But then Japan got "groundhog day'd" to never ever move on any further. Even J-pop is still the same as 1980.

And now the real bots are about to get busy replacing warm-blooded arses one by one and humans will need some creativity in order to carve themselves new niches to make a living. I don't think, Japan is ready for that (are the Finns?)

[Takechanpoo]

to drive western system properly, the whole of society does need to share the monotheimic gods viewpoint which transcend specific communities viewpoint and see the world universally. there is nothing equivalent to it in j-society. its so-called "village" society(ムラ社会).
pretty fucking plainly unfortunate it is.

[Grumpy Gramps]

Mono? I have stereo already. Has been invented recently.

[Takechanpoo]

its not easy for westernes to be conscious of it because its a natural-born thing for them. the monotheistic viewpoint was embodied in the certain generation and has been inherited from generation to generation. so they are still cristian in the depth even if insist not any more. there is no that mental tradition in japan.

[Russell]

its not easy for westernes to be conscious of it because its a natural-born thing for them. the monotheistic viewpoint was embodied in the certain generation and has been inherited from generation to generation. so they are still cristian in the depth even if insist not any more. there is no that mental tradition in japan.

I've heard that argument before.

It has been argued that Westerners are supposed to think more according to principles, whereas Japanese think more according to situation.

Does that make sense?

[Takechanpoo]

yes. the situation is called "kuuki(空気, air, mood)". once a certain kuuki is formed, all the ppl are required to follow it and nobody opposes to it for fear being labelled a harmony destroyer and booted out of their "village" even if they are unhappy with it. in this way, various inefficiency and unreasonableness are put off being reformed and preserved. its the "principle" of j-society, as you long-time j-dwelling gaijins do know. yea

[Coligny]

yes. the situation is called "kuuki(空気, air, mood)". once a certain kuuki is formed, all the ppl are required to follow it and nobody opposes to it for fear being labelled a harmony destroyer and booted out of their "village" even if they are unhappy with it. in this way, various inefficiency and unreasonableness are put off being reformed and preserved. its the "principle" of j-society, as you long-time j-dwelling gaijins do know. yea

Ehm... he said thinking according to principle or situation. What you describe is -not thinking- Just cowardness...

[Yokohammer]

yes. the situation is called "kuuki(空気, air, mood)". once a certain kuuki is formed, all the ppl are required to follow it and nobody opposes to it for fear being labelled a harmony destroyer and booted out of their "village" even if they are unhappy with it. in this way, various inefficiency and unreasonableness are put off being reformed and preserved. its the "principle" of j-society, as you long-time j-dwelling gaijins do know. yea

Good explanation, Take-chan.

And to expand on Take-chan's point about monotheism, which I agree with totally:

Most westerners are brought up with the concept of one all-knowing, all-seeing "God" that sets the rules and doles out punishment as necessary. God defines the rules that apply to all of society, and you're indoctrinated just by being brought up in that place (going through the education system, etc.), whether you adhere to the religion or not. The whole purpose of organized religion is to lay out a set of common values and rules. It's a man-made rule book that has gotten out of control, ya know.

Japan has never had one omnipotent god. It has always had lots of 'em, starting with the animism that is the basis for Shinto, and then a growing pantheon as other religions were absorbed from abroad. The Christian missionaries never had a chance. Japan was happy to accept Christianity as "another" religion, but the idea of discarding all the others they already had and accepting a "one true God" would have never even occurred to them. Talk about "mottainai."

Anyway, so without a chairman-of-the-board God to lay down a common set of rules for everyone, the rules end up being defined by your immediate group. Your family, your village, your school, your company, etc. So although "do unto others" tends to be a universally instinctive principle, the details can change quite a bit depending on the situation. That tends to make "the truth" a little more malleable than it is in the west. And, as noted, it is one of the reasons for the dissonance that often causes outsiders to conclude that Japan is weird. Unprincipled, even.

People who can't be bothered with critical thinking tend to get all bent out of shape when they encounter other people or groups that don't adhere to the principles they were indoctrinated with.

It may not be what you're used to, but it's not "wrong." Just another way of doing things.
If you can't accept that there might be other ways of doing things, you should probably just stay home.

[Grumpy Gramps]

Haha, now you guys lost me completely

But it's fine, keep on keeping on, please.

[yanpa]

That tends to make "the truth" a little more malleable than it is in the west.

Have you been following the news recently?

[Yokohammer]

That tends to make "the truth" a little more malleable than it is in the west.

Have you been following the news recently?

Of course it could also be said that the west is losing its freaking mind.

But what I meant by "malleable truth" is that there can be multiple equally valid versions of the truth, as opposed to out-and-out lies.



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[Yokohammer]

Haha, now you guys lost me completely

But it's fine, keep on keeping on, please.

Seriously?

I was worried that people would be annoyed that I was analyzing and explaining something so simple.



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[Grumpy Gramps]

Seriously?

I just have no idea, where this "one god/ordre du mufti" vs "~truth/kuki by committee" plays into whatever the discussion was about.

Maybe just dementia, no worries

[Yokohammer]

Seriously?

I just have no idea, where this "one god/ordre du mufti" vs "~truth/kuki by committee" plays into whatever the discussion was about.

Maybe just dementia, no worries

Education. -> Education system preparing kids to be "normal" members of society. -> Religion shaping the concepts that shape society that shape the education system.

The toe bone's connected to the foot bone. The foot bone's connected to the heel bone ...

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[matsuki]

That tends to make "the truth" a little more malleable than it is in the west.

Have you been following the news recently?

As much as I agree with what Yoko is saying, even Take is pointing out that the vestigial "village logic" scaled up is a hindrance and causes all sorts of issues.

[Yokohammer]

That tends to make "the truth" a little more malleable than it is in the west.

Have you been following the news recently?

As much as I agree with what Yoko is saying, even Take is pointing out that the vestigial "village logic" scaled up is a hindrance and causes all sorts of issues.

I'm not saying there aren't problems. I'm going a little deeper into why the problems exist and why they aren't going to change anytime soon. You can choose to rebel against the system and spend your life fighting an uphill battle, or you can choose to work with the system and, just maybe, find an opportunity to improve things from the inside. The underlying structure is established. To work within it you need to understand it.


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[Coligny]

Haha, now you guys lost me completely

But it's fine, keep on keeping on, please.

Seriously?

I was worried that people would be annoyed that I was analyzing and explaining something so simple.



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Personally I was just assuming I wuz a complete moron (always a safe bet). But the whole agreement with Takarambe is kinda wrecking this logic...

Also... the whole fixing from inside daydream... Heard aboot that guy... Snowden ?

[Grumpy Gramps]

Personally I was just assuming I wuz a complete moron

Maybe it's just the European upbringing. I think, we ("Gauls" ) were brought up very differently from Anglo-Saxons/Americans and also from the Japanese and have a different view and understanding of how things are hooked together.

Cultural diversity FTW

[Yokohammer]

Cultural diversity FTW

Yeah, thank Zeus for that, eh?
Kudos to Odin while we're at it, although Huginn and Muninn probably already told him.

Bloody monotheists ruin all the fun.


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[matsuki]

Personally I was just assuming I wuz a complete moron

Maybe it's just the European upbringing. I think, we ("Gauls" ) were brought up very differently from Anglo-Saxons/Americans and also from the Japanese and have a different view and understanding of how things are hooked together.

Cultural diversity FTW

You are so wery vong about zeee Amerikans Gramps...

Apache seijinshiki

[Grumpy Gramps]

Hammer, between all your false gods, don't forget the real thing, Bastet and of course Nekogami

Sorry, Matsuki, I did not mean the real Americans, I meant of course the occupying force/squatters

[Yokohammer]

I blame The Crusades.
We were all having so much fun before that.

[Coligny]

I blame The Crusades.
We were all having so much fun before that.

Hey... the seventh one gave us the cross of Lorraine.

IMG_5951.JPG

Not a bad deal for few killed arabz...

[Grumpy Gramps]

I blame The Crusaders

Ah, those were the days. Lots of fun. Even my CB radio call sign in those days was "Crusader". R.I.P. Wilton Felder, R.I.P. Joe Sample, R.I.P. my CB radio.

[Yokohammer]

I blame The Crusaders

Ah, those were the days. Lots of fun. Even my CB radio call sign in those days was "Crusader". R.I.P. Wilton Felder, R.I.P. Joe Sample, R.I.P. my CB radio.

Nice.

Give yourself two bonus points for good taste.



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[Takechanpoo]

and also the reason of the double standard in j-society between the inside of "village" and the outside or between japanese and non-japanese is that j-society doenst share the monotheistic viewpoint transcending the certain "village" viewpoints.
and also the reason why japanese ppl tend to excessively rely on comparison to a great extent in order to judge and create things, or why they are really good at doing reverse-engineering and sophistication while hardly achieve a breakthrough, is lacking it as well.
after all, almost all of the unsolved problems japanese have faced since adopting western system about 150 years ago originate from it.
you gaijin guys still havent noticed such a basic thing to understand j-society yet? eh?

[matsuki]

and also the reason of the double standard in j-society between the inside of "village" and the outside or between japanese and non-japanese is that j-society doenst share the monotheistic viewpoint transcending the certain "village" viewpoints.
and also the reason why japanese ppl tend to excessively rely on comparison to a great extent in order to judge and create things, or why they are really good at doing reverse-engineering and sophistication while hardly achieve a breakthrough, is lacking it as well.
after all, almost all of the unsolved problems japanese have faced since adopting western system about 150 years ago originate from it.
you gaijin guys still havent noticed such a basic thing to understand j-society yet? eh?

Isn't that mostly what we bitch about? Common sense lacking the common...unless it's against furriners where the village becomes "nihonjin wa..." or "ajiajin wa.." if they're feeling inclusive.