It's Japan with more plastic surgery and harder drinking

[Takechanpoo]

who cares the comments on this shabby forum which almost no japanese browse except for me.
its confirmed that aum shinrikyos no2 guy named hayakawa was an envoy from unification church. and their plants were NOT afford to produce sarin. (what those plants had actually produced is stimulus) the sarin they used was produced in north korea and taken in japan.
you even cant assume there might be something not appeared in englishnized medias about japan. you are truly a dumb. im sorry for it from the bottom of my heart. yea

[Russell]

who cares the comments on this shabby forum which almost no japanese browse except for me.
its confirmed that aum shinrikyos no2 guy named hayakawa was an envoy from unification church. and their plants were NOT afford to produce sarin. (what those plants had actually produced is stimulus) the sarin they used was produced in north korea and taken in japan.
you even cant assume there might be something not appeared in englishnized medias about japan. you are truly a dumb. im sorry for it from the bottom of my heart. yea

[wagyl]

englishnized

Oh Miki you're so fine, You're so fine you blow my mind. Hey Miki!
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=31559

Bonus earworm

Maybe that should be mɿowɿɒɘ ƨunoᙠ

[Coligny]

who cares the comments on this shabby forum which almost no japanese browse except for me.
its confirmed that aum shinrikyos no2 guy named hayakawa was an envoy from unification church. and their plants a

And this is already way too much...

We have the luxury if we truly want to communicate with a braindead japs to just have to open our door and walk outside...

[Takechanpoo]

hey dotardy wagyl, why dont you dig the unification church related crimes? ah? scared? eh?
you dude are really a sincere guy.
i really think so. yeah

kuboki04.jpg

110-129P-1973-12-1024x660.jpg

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since the unification church built a deep strong relationship with kishi sinsuke, who is abe shizos grandfather, the godfather of LDP and was an agent of cia, they have been connected with the core of LDP. since then, LDP and the unification church are inseparable each other. its the reason j-authorities have overlooked the evil deeds by moonies in japan.

[wagyl]

I made no comment about your claims about the Unification Church. I in fact did not read them, I only had the word Englishnization jump out at me.

And even if I had made a comment, I do not respond when you are so obviously showing disrespect before making your demands.

It is for you to establish the tenets of your argument, before challenging others. A bare claim does not make your argument.

You are an angry oyaji, to be dodged.

[Coligny]

hey dotardy wagyl, why dont you dig the unification church related crimes? ah? scared? eh?
you dude are really a sincere guy.
i

DONT MAKE ME LIKE WAGYL... I HATE WHEN IT HAPPENS...AND THE EXORCISM MEEDED TO RESTORE BALANCE IN MY YOONIVERSE ARE STARTING TO RUIN ME...

[Mike Oxlong]

since the unification church built a deep strong relationship with kishi sinsuke, who is abe shizos grandfather, the godfather of LDP and was an agent of cia, they have been connected with the core of LDP. since then, LDP and the unification church are inseparable each other. its the reason j-authorities have overlooked the evil deeds by moonies in japan.

This is interesting...
http://www.jpri.org/publications/workin ... /wp83.html

Another aspect of Sasakawa's postwar political agenda, anti-communism, dovetailed neatly with his efforts in conservative politics. Working closely with Kishi, he cultivated relationships with other anti-communists throughout Asia. In the mid-1960s, this brought him into contact with the Reverend Sun Myung Moon, founder of the Unification Church.25 In 1967, Sasakawa invited the Unification Church to use his motorboat racing center in Yamanashi prefecture for its first rally in Japan. The following year, three months after the Reverend Moon established his "Federation for Victory over Communism" (Shokyo Rengo) in Korea, Sasakawa agreed to become its honorary chairman in Japan. Kishi was impressed by the Federation, suggesting that "If all younger people were like Shokyo Rengo members, Japan would have a bright future." In this way, Sasakawa and Kishi shielded what would become one of the most widely distrusted groups in contemporary Japan.

Although loathed and feared for its alleged kidnappings and mind control of young Japanese, the Unification Church proved (and may still prove) to be of incalculable benefit to many Japanese politicians. It built its Japan headquarters on land in Tokyo once owned by Kishi. By the early 1970s, a number of LDP politicians were using Unification Church members as campaign workers. While the politicians were required to pledge to visit the Church's headquarters in Korea and receive Reverend Moon's lectures on theology, it did not matter whether they were members of the Church. Actual Church members -- so-called "Moonies" -- were sent by the Federation to serve without compensation as industrious and highly valued campaign workers. In return, for many years the Church enjoyed protection from prosecution by Japanese authorities for their often fraudulent and aggressive sales and conversion tactics. Not incidentally, by the 1980s, Japan reportedly provided some four-fifths of Unification Church revenues worldwide.26

Over time, the Kishi and allied factions transferred the Kishi-Sasakawa-Moon link to other party leaders. In 1974, Fukuda Takeo, the direct inheritor of the Kishi faction, praised Reverend Moon as "one of Asia's great leaders," while Nakasone Yasuhiro, the youngest member of the Kishi Cabinet and scion of the allied Kono faction, similarly honored Moon. Abe Shintaro, Kishi's son-in law and inheritor of the faction from Fukuda, also depended upon "Moonies" in his election campaigns. A list prepared by the Japan Communist Party of 126 LDP and DSP politicians who used "volunteers" from the Federation for Victory over Communism to staff their campaigns includes Ozawa Ichiro, Hashimoto Ryutaro, and other senior party leaders. In the 1990 general election, the Unification Church announced that it had provided financial and campaign support to more than one hundred Japanese Diet members. As a measure of the influence Moon enjoyed in Japan, in 1992 the government gave him special permission to enter the country even though Japanese law forbids entry to a foreign national who has served more than year in jail. Moon had served eighteen months in U.S. jail for tax evasion and had been barred from entering Japan on these grounds for nearly a decade. In March 1992, Kanemaru Shin, vice president of the LDP and the head of the largest faction within the party, intervened on Moon's behalf with the Minister of Justice.

[Wage Slave]

It is telling, but I fail to see any evidence of North Korean involvement or of mass rape. That the Unification Church is undesirable and engage in brainwashing and coercion was never in dispute. The LDP appear to be the reason they have done so well in Japan. The LDP represent Japanese conservatism do they not? If there is a enabling villain in the piece it is them.

[matsuki]

I'm still wondering where the rape party is at?

[Takechanpoo]

It is telling, but I fail to see any evidence of North Korean involvement or of mass rape. That the Unification Church is undesirable and engage in brainwashing and coercion was never in dispute. The LDP appear to be the reason they have done so well in Japan. The LDP represent Japanese conservatism do they not? If there is a enabling villain in the piece it is them.

"i started to believe slightly coz finally found some english-written source about it! hell yea! "
why the heck are you such a baka?

[Wage Slave]

If you think so. I would have thought if you are shown evidence from credible sources, it is only right to give allegations more weight. So now, where's the evidence of mass rape and North Korean involvement? Given the driving force behind the LDP/Moon alliance was rabid anti communism it's not very credible. And as for the mass rape well it's not impossible in this country given the way rape is treated but I'm not going to believe you unless you provide some better evidence than you have thus far.

The Unification Church has a terrible reputation for coercion, mind control, corruption and profiteering everywhere. That was never in dispute. Nor was the fact that Japan has proved fertile ground for them ever disputed.

Oh, and by the way, do you have anything to back up your claim that Aum Shinryko were working for them?

[Mike Oxlong]

UNIFICATION CHURCH/AUM SHINRIKYO/KGB/NORTH KOREAN CONNECTION
Hayakawa left Osaka University and soon found his way into the Unification Church-the Korean Moonies sect. The Reverend Moon was a long-time friend of the recently deceased North Korean “Great Leader”, and is now known as an associate of George Bush in new Moonies ventures in South America. After some years, Hayakawa became a high-ranking member but broke with this sect under cloudy circumstances in 1987. He left the Moonies (with their permission?) - with US$20 million of their funds, the deeds to several Tokyo buildings, and the rights to several Moonies businesses - and joined the Aum sect.

According to an analyst for the Japanese Police, Hayakawa was under surveillance at this time - believed to be a possible spy for the North Korean military. He inadvertently led them straight to the relatively unknown Aum sect.

Hayakawa apparently utilized these Moonies assets to buy his way into the Aum sect - to whom he brought some 35 fellow Moonies. He rose almost immediately to the position of deputy leader, running a nearly separate organization surrounded by his ex-Moonies cadres, in his so-called “Aum Construction Ministry”. Hayakawa reportedly began to use the multi-faceted Aum organization as a convenient cover for a variety of drugs, arms and high-tech scientific equipment (of use in weapons manufacture) dealings around the world. For instance, during the Gulf War, Saddam Hussein was among his trading partners.

Hayakawa visited Russia 22 times, and North Korea 17 times since 1992. He traded with KGB official Vitaly Masenko - operating under cover of the Ukraine Ministry of Industry and Trade.

Masenko had previously worked closely with the Ukrainian chapter of the Unification Church since at least the mid-1980s.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/tesla ... la_13c.htm

[wagyl]

Yes well about that page. The central premise of a weapons test in remote Australia ... https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4531

If you like, I can locate pages on the internet to tell you that jet fuel can't melt steel, too.

[Russell]

If you like, I can locate pages on the internet to tell you that jet fuel can't melt steel, too.

Can it? (if there is no additional supply of oxygen)

Your last statement actually undermines your basic argument, which is sound...

[Mike Oxlong]

Yes well about that page. The central premise of a weapons test in remote Australia ... https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4531

If you like, I can locate pages on the internet to tell you that jet fuel can't melt steel, too.

I just wanna know how all the jet fuel got into WTC Building 7...

[Wage Slave]

It's curious how often people think jet fuel is something special - It is just kerosene with a couple of additives. Wagyl's point stands though. That source does not look at all reliable to me and doesn't offer any supporting evidence.

[Mike Oxlong]

I saw it on the internet...it must be true!

http://www.deepblacklies.co.uk/the_batt ... rikyko.htm

[Takechanpoo]

and asahara has been over-drugged to not reveal the truth of the sarin attack, which in reality was a terror attack by north korea targeting at the elite j-bureaucrats in kasumigaseki, since he got arrested.

its pretty surprising to me that there are not a few gaijins not knowing the actual facts of such an epochmaking incident about j-powers and living here for a long time.

[Coligny]

One of the little things that always get ignored is the fact that there is no need to "melt" all steel to collapse a structure. Like for a lot of materials the plasticity of steel increase with the temperature.
When it reach the point where the load overcome the plasticity... welcome to shitcreek...

This is absolutely not an endorsement for any conspiracy/non conspiracy scenario about 911.
Just an observation against this argument.
Jet fuel, shock breaking of the steel heatshield (plaster or asbestos or...) and maybe a chimney/furnace effect. Sounds good to fuck up a building.

Now to make 2 towers and a rather large 3rd building neatly collapse into their footprint.

Could it be a higly successfull controlled demolition... in such chaos... doubtfull...
Could it be a random statistically incredible happenstance... doubtfull...

Conclusion... it can not have happened and therefore the twin towers and building 7 are still there but rendered invisible by the unlikelyness of what might have happened to them during 911... it's Schroedinger on meth...

[Russell]

One of the little things that always get ignored is the fact that there is no need to "melt" all steel to collapse a structure. Like for a lot of materials the plasticity of steel increase with the temperature.
When it reach the point where the load overcome the plasticity...

Good argument.

However, you have to compare the amount of jet fuel (most of which burned on initial impact) with the mass of the steel beams, and will have to conclude that the amount of jet fuel is relatively quite small. There was a lot of smoke, indicating that the fires in the 30 or so minutes after the impacts were oxygen-starved, so not at very high temperatures.

Then also consider that steel is highly conductive to heat so that most of the heat would be distributed over a huge mass of steel. That does not leave a lot of room to soften the steel.

Oh, yes, then we did not even start talking about WTC7.

As a scientist I find it hard to come up with a rational explanation of all this shit. But psst, keep it quiet, because it is a taboo to talk in this way.

[wagyl]

As a scientist I find it hard to come up with a rational explanation of all this shit. But psst, keep it quiet, because it is a taboo to talk in this way.

As a scientist (materials science? engineer? anything actually relevant to put you in a position of greater knowledge than the average man in the street?), what do you think is the most likely explanation? Why is that consideration -- of the most likely out of all possible hypotheses -- not considered a valid scientific method in this case? Isn't this the way that science has evolved in its journey towards better understanding?

If this site is about anything at all, it is about riding roughshod over taboos. Go for it!

I expect, and will demand, scientific rigour in your explanation.

[Wage Slave]

Is this really incredible? Genuine question.

Immediately following the attacks, a building performance study (BPS) team of engineering specialists was formed by the Structural Engineering Institute of the American Society of Civil Engineers (SEI/ASCE) and Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA). The BPS team issued its report in May 2002, finding that the aircraft impacts caused "extensive structural damage, including localized collapse" and that the resulting fires "further weakened the steel-framed structures, eventually leading to total collapse". They also presented recommendations for more detailed engineering studies of the disaster.[5]

The BPS team investigation was later followed by a more detailed investigation conducted by the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST), which also consulted outside engineering entities. This investigation was completed in September 2005. The NIST investigators did not find anything substandard in the design of the WTC towers, noting that the severity of the attacks and the magnitude of the destruction was beyond anything experienced in U.S. cities in the past. They also emphasized the role of the fires and found that sagging floors pulled inward on the perimeter columns: "This led to the inward bowing of the perimeter columns and failure of the south face of WTC 1 and the east face of WTC 2, initiating the collapse of each of the towers."[6]

Snip

The light construction and hollow nature of the structures allowed the jet fuel to penetrate far inside the towers, igniting many large fires simultaneously over a wide area of the impacted floors. The fuel from the planes burned at most for a few minutes, but the contents of the buildings burned over the next hour or hour and a half.[22] It has been suggested[by whom?] that the fires might not have been as centrally positioned, nor as intense, had traditionally heavy high-rise construction been standing in the way of the aircraft. Debris and fuel would likely have remained mostly outside the buildings or concentrated in more peripheral areas away from the building cores, which would then not have become unique failure points. In this scenario, the towers might have stood far longer, perhaps indefinitely.[23][24] The fires were hot enough to weaken the columns and cause floors to sag, pulling perimeter columns inward and reducing their ability to support the mass of the building above.[25]

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collapse_of_the_World_Trade_Center for more and for references.

[wagyl]

Further, it is not a unique example of a fire buckling structural steel members, even without the addition of external fuel, and remaining over its own footprint.
http://www.mace.manchester.ac.uk/projec ... efault.htm

A hint for Russell: I think the jet fuel factor is a complete red herring, except maybe as a aviation チャッカマン. The question is not whether jet fuel can or cannot melt steel. The question is whether a fire in a building can reach sufficient temperature to weaken steel enough that it is structurally unstable. As with so many conspiracy theories, the basic assumptions are flawed.

[Coligny]

Yes but do not forget to factor in the fact that the towers were not empty and might have had sufficient carpets and furniture to maintain a fire.

[wagyl]

It gets hot enough in the Netherlands to expand steel beyond the tolerances calculated as acceptable, leading to structural failure. Jet fuel optional.
http://www.infrasite.nl/definitions/def ... 37&cst=ddv

[Mike Oxlong]

It is interesting that they fell with the speed of an object in a vacuum. Encountering zero resistance while collapsing top-down. The infamous pancake theory. Too bad the evidence was destroyed before an investigation could be conducted.

[Russell]

It is interesting that they fell with the speed of an object in a vacuum. Encountering zero resistance while collapsing top-down. The infamous pancake theory. Too bad the evidence was destroyed before an investigation could be conducted.

Yep, you're basically right. Central parts of all three towers fell with the acceleration of gravity for at least a few seconds, meaning that there was no resistance of the mass below these parts. That in itself should raise suspicions with anybody who knows physics.

Maybe over the coming weekend I will try to find some time to put my arguments in writing. I don't have too much time, because of work and my desire to spend at least a day in my garden, though.

[Russell]

It gets hot enough in the Netherlands to expand steel beyond the tolerances calculated as acceptable, leading to structural failure. Jet fuel optional.
http://www.infrasite.nl/definitions/def ... 37&cst=ddv

Come on Wagyl, you can do better than that. That is about expansion of steel due to increased temperatures. This has nothing to do with the collapse of any of the three WTC towers.

[Wage Slave]

Look forward to reading it.