Permanent Fucked Gaijin (Residency)

[IparryU]

OK, so me and the Injun are going to go apply for PR. I been here since 2007, was married for 5 years. So this is more of a hail marry of an attempt to see if I can get it. If it the chances are slim to none, I will say fuck it and not even waste my time.

http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/english/tetuduki/kanri/shyorui/05.html
So far I got all of this completed and printed out:
Application form 1copy
Photo (4cm×3cm) 1copy
Passport and residence card
Letter of Guarantee

Is there anything else that I need when I had all this stuff in? I assume that when/if they call me in they will ask for more stuff like taxes and what not.

[wagyl]

Since this question will by nature get personal to your circumstances you might think about getting it shifted to a more private forum, but speaking generally proof that you are supporting two underage Japanese citizens will be a positive thing. Without that, I would think that you would be treated like any other single, and they would want to see a 10 year residence record from you.

I strongly suspect that their biggest factor, apart from having put in the time, is whether you can support yourself without becoming a burden on the state. Proven income earning capacity, and assets if you have them, will help.

I really don't know whether Immigration pays much attention to any record they might keep of previous, failed applications, but depending on how they treat that fact, you could say "apply anyway, you have little to lose and lots to gain."

If you are asking what your chances are, I really don't know. My first paragraph addresses some factors unique to you, so probably no one can tell you. You might want to think about whether there is a reason for you to apply now rather than in three years time (and there may be some reasons personal to your future plans which do suggest now is a better time for you, but only you know that).

Edited to add one more factor:
Is your current visa the longest term that was available at the time you applied for it (three years or five years)? I have no hard facts, but the story used to be that people applying for PR on a one year visa were automatically knocked back.

[IparryU]

Since this question will by nature get personal to your circumstances you might think about getting it shifted to a more private forum, but speaking generally proof that you are supporting two underage Japanese citizens will be a positive thing. Without that, I would think that you would be treated like any other single, and they would want to see a 10 year residence record from you.

I strongly suspect that their biggest factor, apart from having put in the time, is whether you can support yourself without becoming a burden on the state. Proven income earning capacity, and assets if you have them, will help.

I really don't know whether Immigration pays much attention to any record they might keep of previous, failed applications, but depending on how they treat that fact, you could say "apply anyway, you have little to lose and lots to gain."

If you are asking what your chances are, I really don't know. My first paragraph addresses some factors unique to you, so probably no one can tell you. You might want to think about whether there is a reason for you to apply now rather than in three years time (and there may be some reasons personal to your future plans which do suggest now is a better time for you, but only you know that).

Edited to add one more factor:
Is your current visa the longest term that was available at the time you applied for it (three years or five years)? I have no hard facts, but the story used to be that people applying for PR on a one year visa were automatically knocked back.

Thanks wagyl. I have to renew my visa by October and it would be convenient to submit both applications at the same time since I will be going there anyway. My longest visa was 3 years (spouse of j-national) and I am now on a 1 year specialist in humanities visa.

I will be here to support my children and that is pretty much my only reason why I am still here to be honest. I am also going to get the ex to write something to help me out. She will also be the guarantor, so I am hoping that this will improve my odds a bit.

One thing that I was worrying about is if they try to push a divorce fraud on us as she is collecting money from the govt for being a single mom. There were a few people in our daycare that divorced just to get their kids in the same daycare. The dad would "move" to his parents house so all the paperwork is legit. We are divorced for the purpose of not being compatible with each other, but we both agree on one thing... take care of our kids and give them the best life we could provide them. Even Choko knocks on me about it... saying that I am basically married, but not.

But ya, if this thread gets any more personal I will make a thread in premium then just paste some general info here.

[wagyl]

Gut instinct says that if you apply this time, while you are still under a single year visa, they will knock you back. Basically, having only a one year visa now means that just one year ago they were not sure enough about you to give you a three year visa (and I remember the details there...) I would wait to see if I get a three or five year visa this time, and then apply if I did.

If anyone has direct knowledge of a successful PR application while still under a single year visa, now is the time to tell me I am talking shit.

[IparryU]

Gut instinct says that if you apply this time, while you are still under a single year visa, they will knock you back. Basically, having only a one year visa now means that just one year ago they were not sure enough about you to give you a three year visa (and I remember the details there...) I would wait to see if I get a three or five year visa this time, and then apply if I did.

If anyone has direct knowledge of a successful PR application while still under a single year visa, now is the time to tell me I am talking shit.

In general, I think you are correct as if you cannot get the pass for a 3 or 5 year visa of any type, you aren't worth it. Sort of like how some nationalities get 1 year spouse visas for the first three years then a 3 year visa, where as us Yanks, Brits, EU, OZ/NZ folk get 3 years for the first visa.

I will take your word on that as it is very logical/trend of the migra. But if what you are saying is BS then I would be happy...

[GomiGirl]

Get thee to an immigration lawyer - stat!!

Better chance of getting it first time.

[IparryU]

Get thee to an immigration lawyer - stat!!

Better chance of getting it first time.

recommendations GG?

[Mike Oxlong]

You'll need a guarantor to vouch for you, and they will have a section on your paperwork to fill out. It has been said the more standing that person has, the more chance you have of passing.

[Ol Dirty Gaijin]

Silly question, but would one of the outlaws be your guarantor?

[omae mona]

I will be here to support my children and that is pretty much my only reason why I am still here to be honest. I am also going to get the ex to write something to help me out. She will also be the guarantor, so I am hoping that this will improve my odds a bit.

One thing that I was worrying about is if they try to push a divorce fraud on us as she is collecting money from the govt for being a single mom. There were a few people in our daycare that divorced just to get their kids in the same daycare. The dad would "move" to his parents house so all the paperwork is legit. We are divorced for the purpose of not being compatible with each other, but we both agree on one thing... take care of our kids and give them the best life we could provide them. Even Choko knocks on me about it... saying that I am basically married, but not.

I forget what level of background checking is done, but the primary purpose of the guarantor is financial. I do not imagine they would (knowingly) allow somebody on public support to be a guarantor. The main reason for the guarantor is to cover your financial costs in case YOU end up on public support. As others are suggesting, I'd find somebody else.

[GomiGirl]

Get thee to an immigration lawyer - stat!!

Better chance of getting it first time.

recommendations GG?

Yoko Majima (mention my name - my real one)
http://www.juridique.jp/

[matsuki]

So based on a few "no PR, no care" walls I've run into lately, I'm looking to finally apply for PR. It's been 9 years straight this time and I'm currently on a 5 year work visa. Had a student visa back in the day, went through all the lengths of work visas to the current 5 year. No longer married (that I know of but I do need to check out the juminhyo sometime in the near future)

Working on filling out the paperwork now and had some questions....

Reason I'm applying for PR - Any key phrase here that is golden? Something I can just add on to and personalize? Obviously I don't want to just come out and say something like "to be eligible for loans and not have to visit immigration every 5 years."

Family in Japan - Should I include my son? No idea where he and crazy mama are and he's not on the books in Japan as mine but he has his US passport and registered as mine in the US. In the same boat, should I include the ex wife? On good terms with her and while not romantically involved, practically still like family. My gut says yes on both accounts but would appreciate opinions for or against including either.

Guarantor - More than a few people to choose from here, should I just go with the boss who is not yet retired/wealthiest? (also easiest) Older hockey buddy at a major corp? or?

Personal History - The Engrish just says "personal history" whereas the Japanese says 今回の入国後の学歴・職歴 Sooooo just list my previous two positions and the certifications and such I've received since my first visa this time around? Few of those and I can probably fill all the boxes but while it's not exactly academic, is getting a J-driver's license worth adding here? Giving up my furrin hockey player status to commit to only Japanese hockey? (assuming this is to show my potential/skills/commitment/etc here, that would seem applicable, no?)

Last of all, picture....printed with the form or are they anaru about it being a pasted on "photo-print?"

[Grumpy Gramps]

I wouldn't skimp on the piccie; they are easy enough to get and if you show up with the wrong ones, this might send a signal of "lack of respect" or whatever immi's BS of the day is.

Reason I'm applying for PR - Any key phrase here that is golden? Something I can just add on to and personalize? Obviously I don't want to just come out and say something like "to be eligible for loans "

After you have showed them everything, they'll know you need a loan. Nothing wrong with that, I think; I got my PR for a similar reason But this was many moons ago, so someone with more recent experience might be better at getting the wording right.

[Russell]

So based on a few "no PR, no care" walls I've run into lately, I'm looking to finally apply for PR. It's been 9 years straight this time and I'm currently on a 5 year work visa. Had a student visa back in the day, went through all the lengths of work visas to the current 5 year. No longer married (that I know of but I do need to check out the juminhyo sometime in the near future)

Working on filling out the paperwork now and had some questions....

Reason I'm applying for PR - Any key phrase here that is golden? Something I can just add on to and personalize? Obviously I don't want to just come out and say something like "to be eligible for loans and not have to visit immigration every 5 years."

Family in Japan - Should I include my son? No idea where he and crazy mama are and he's not on the books in Japan as mine but he has his US passport and registered as mine in the US. In the same boat, should I include the ex wife? On good terms with her and while not romantically involved, practically still like family. My gut says yes on both accounts but would appreciate opinions for or against including either.

Guarantor - More than a few people to choose from here, should I just go with the boss who is not yet retired/wealthiest? (also easiest) Older hockey buddy at a major corp? or?

Personal History - The Engrish just says "personal history" whereas the Japanese says 今回の入国後の学歴・職歴 Sooooo just list my previous two positions and the certifications and such I've received since my first visa this time around? Few of those and I can probably fill all the boxes but while it's not exactly academic, is getting a J-driver's license worth adding here? Giving up my furrin hockey player status to commit to only Japanese hockey? (assuming this is to show my potential/skills/commitment/etc here, that would seem applicable, no?)

Last of all, picture....printed with the form or are they anaru about it being a pasted on "photo-print?"

I wouldn't put in any facts about your son and his crazy mother, because this may give the wrong impression. Neither would I put in your ex, because she is your ex, and thus not relevant. Basically, they look for residents who do not disturb their society too much, and putting all that shit in there doesn't help in my humble opinion (unless, of course, they ask for it).

Regarding guarantor, both your choices seem fine.

Reason for applying for permanent status I gave that I wanted to buy a house in Japan and have a more stable life. Actually, I bought it 15 years later, but who cares. The point being that if you want to buy a house, you show the signs of wanting a stable life (plus!), and supporting the construction industry (huge plus!). You may also add that you want to start a business of renting vacation homes in the Inaka (I'm referring to your construction efforts going on). Or anything business-related should sound positive, I guess.

I am not an expert in ice hockey, but if you judge yourself to be of the level of qualifying for the national team, you should definitely put it in there. In that case, your ice hockey buddy may be a good reference.

These are just my non-expert opinions, so please, take them with a grain of salt.

[wagyl]

I was probably fewer moons ago than Gramps, but I didn't even have the excuse of loan applications to state as my reason. From memory I used some bullshit like "employer is concerned about my ability to guarantee that I could continue residence and my employment and it would help them if my immigration status was longer than (the then current longest) three years and more stable, and also, for their flexibility, if my employment status was not limited to humanities/international services." This was notwithstanding that my immediate boss was not in fact prepared to go guarantor -- he was (accurately, as it turns out) worried that the extra freedom of PR may lead to me seeking greener pastures than he provided.

For guarantor I used someone I could describe as none other than a friend: he was a houseshare friend from eight or so years previously. As you see in the form, guarantor has to provide documentation of income and good tax behaviour, to show his or her status as a fine upstanding citizen who has capacity to bail you out. Your boss is probably the best choice, especially if easiest. I didn't have that option.

As to whether to mention a complicated marital history and DNA contribution to the citizenry: you are essentially applying as a single person, and I am not convinced that the ties you can demonstrate show a stable relationship with the country. Always look at the form from the point of view of Immigration: their concern is whether you will be a burden on Japan. If your earnings were being used to contribute to the upkeep of child or to support a wife, they would have an interest in making that support for a Japanese national more stable by granting PR to that breadwinner, but in any other circumstances it is not really a plus. It is not necessarily a minus, but it is not a plus.

The hockey shows participation in community and society in Japan, so I think that will help, even if only a little. The drivers license .... well, if there is a blank space on the form crying out for something in it, maybe put it in but if there are greater achievements to showcase I don't think much harm will be done if it doesn't make the grade.

How long would you have to wait to get to 10 years in the country? I would tend to wait until that milestone has passed, if only to tick a box and give them one less reason to reject you easily, unless there is some reason you can use like visa renewal coming up before that deadline.

[matsuki]

I wouldn't put in any facts about your son and his crazy mother, because this may give the wrong impression. Neither would I put in your ex, because she is your ex, and thus not relevant. Basically, they look for residents who do not disturb their society too much, and putting all that shit in there doesn't help in my humble opinion (unless, of course, they ask for it).

As to whether to mention a complicated marital history and DNA contribution to the citizenry: you are essentially applying as a single person, and I am not convinced that the ties you can demonstrate show a stable relationship with the country. Always look at the form from the point of view of Immigration: their concern is whether you will be a burden on Japan. If your earnings were being used to contribute to the upkeep of child or to support a wife, they would have an interest in making that support for a Japanese national more stable by granting PR to that breadwinner, but in any other circumstances it is not really a plus. It is not necessarily a minus, but it is not a plus.

Was never married to crazy so literally no place to list her there but it does specifically ask for "family in Japan" and notes "children" on the form. Asks their birth date/citizenship and if they reside with you. Since he's not registered as mine in Japan, leaving him off is an option that I don't see hurting me. On the other hand, there no interview to ask relationship details, no questions regarding if he is being supported by me, and marking that he's not residing with me basically only leaves them with the information that I have a dual citizen child residing nearby. I figured that would be considered a strong tie to Japan. I could honestly note a desire to bring stability to his life under my reasons for wanting a PR visa. (No need to mention I am cut off from him at the moment.)

Ex wife's profession being considered a cultural contribution, something they seem big on, and the fact that if they called her up, she would be supportive, I figured it couldn't hurt? Even though it's a divorce, wouldn't that show a willingness to settle down and create more ties/babies here than single with not marital history in near a decade here?

Reason for applying for permanent status I gave that I wanted to buy a house in Japan and have a more stable life. Actually, I bought it 15 years later, but who cares. The point being that if you want to buy a house, you show the signs of wanting a stable life (plus!), and supporting the construction industry (huge plus!). You may also add that you want to start a business of renting vacation homes in the Inaka (I'm referring to your construction efforts going on). Or anything business-related should sound positive, I guess.

I was probably fewer moons ago than Gramps, but I didn't even have the excuse of loan applications to state as my reason. From memory I used some bullshit like "employer is concerned about my ability to guarantee that I could continue residence and my employment and it would help them if my immigration status was longer than (the then current longest) three years and more stable, and also, for their flexibility, if my employment status was not limited to humanities/international services." This was notwithstanding that my immediate boss was not in fact prepared to go guarantor -- he was (accurately, as it turns out) worried that the extra freedom of PR may lead to me seeking greener pastures than he provided.

Thanks, these are great suggestions to build on!

For guarantor I used someone I could describe as none other than a friend: he was a houseshare friend from eight or so years previously. As you see in the form, guarantor has to provide documentation of income and good tax behaviour, to show his or her status as a fine upstanding citizen who has capacity to bail you out. Your boss is probably the best choice, especially if easiest. I didn't have that option.

Good deal, I'll use him.

I am not an expert in ice hockey, but if you judge yourself to be of the level of qualifying for the national team, you should definitely put it in there. In that case, your ice hockey buddy may be a good reference.

The hockey shows participation in community and society in Japan, so I think that will help, even if only a little. The drivers license .... well, if there is a blank space on the form crying out for something in it, maybe put it in but if there are greater achievements to showcase I don't think much harm will be done if it doesn't make the grade.

Hockey in, DL was as you described, something just filling in a blank space since...well, we know how they like that type of thing. Will leave it there unless I can come up with another "academic achievement" or "certification."

How long would you have to wait to get to 10 years in the country? I would tend to wait until that milestone has passed, if only to tick a box and give them one less reason to reject you easily, unless there is some reason you can use like visa renewal coming up before that deadline.

Til the end of this year...but according to GG's immigration attorney friend, a denied application won't adversely affect your chances at applying again. Current 5 year visa is up early next year so while not before the deadline, not far off either.

[Coligny]

Hmmm...

You have a dog... and in Tokyo...

If anyone is a dog/pet person at the immigrashiun that might help a bit...

[matsuki]

Hmmm...

You have a dog... and in Tokyo...

If anyone is a dog/pet person at the immigrashiun that might help a bit...

Good point, no place on the form for that but should be included in my supporting documents.

[Russell]

Hmmm...

You have a dog... and in Tokyo...

If anyone is a dog/pet person at the immigrashiun that might help a bit...

Good point, no place on the form for that but should be included in my supporting documents.

I think Mr. C is joking...

[matsuki]

Joking or not, I do see it as a plus to show I have a pup with all the proper local paperwork, vaccinations, etc. and part of a local Kennel Club.

[Coligny]

Hmmm...

You have a dog... and in Tokyo...

If anyone is a dog/pet person at the immigrashiun that might help a bit...

Good point, no place on the form for that but should be included in my supporting documents.

I think Mr. C is joking...

Not really actually. Having a pet in japan/tokyo is not exactly a milk run. And I'd put this in the little things that tells the person is trying to make a home here.

[wangta]

Best wishes for your PR attempt matsuki. If it's Shinagawa, expect anything. Somebody I worked with two years ago was rejected for PR despite having 10 and a little over years in Japan, a record of something like over seven years w/ the same employer and a very high level of Jp language ability. Plus kokumin kenkohoken and juminzei payments.

That was fucking fucked - the rejection I mean. He was single - seems to me from various things I've heard that single gaijin who want PR are not prioritised. Course somebody will come along to scoff at that statement but unless you're influential and have money/connections, single gaijin in Japan aren't viewed as having the 'status' that marriage to a J person gives.

I know somebody scoffed at me some time back for my views and said how some gay bloke got citizenship but the more I live in Japan esp in places like Tokyo, the more I understand how knowing people gets some people somewhere fast while just as or more talented ones with no connections get zilch or comparative zilch.

[matsuki]

Not really actually. Having a pet in japan/tokyo is not exactly a milk run.

THIS...I intentionally tried to purge my memory of what an ass rape-like experience it is for FG to find apartments here. Even worse when you check the pets allowed/negotiable mark on any search and watch the it go empty...but according to a few friends who own property and have rented out to people who brought in noisy dogs, the no pets clause in the contract means fuck all as the Japanese courts view having a pet as a tenant’s inalienable right.

Best wishes for your PR attempt matsuki. If it's Shinagawa, expect anything. Somebody I worked with two years ago was rejected for PR despite having 10 and a little over years in Japan, a record of something like over seven years w/ the same employer and a very high level of Jp language ability. Plus kokumin kenkohoken and juminzei payments.

That was fucking fucked - the rejection I mean. He was single - seems to me from various things I've heard that single gaijin who want PR are not prioritised.

Thanks, that sounds like me and part of the reason I am unsure if batsu-ichi is really worse than never married at all. Batsu-ichi could at least show intent to settle down...but then there are more than a few FG that have got their PR while single so may be best to leave it out as it is definitely not as damning as it seems. Apparently, they will tell you why you are being denied "in detail" if you go there in person with your application number. You can also re-apply right away if you can provide additional documents to refute their reasoning...and there is no limit in the number of times.

[matsuki]

Just a quick update to this - friend of a friend is an immigration attorney so I had a free consult with her. Based upon all my info and everything, she thinks obtaining PR should be cake. She drew up a 90% complete letter for my exec friends to complete and took copies of the documentation proving I own land here. She says this is where who you know giving immigration a written "love this guy" may speed things up.

The one hiccup I found out is this...the attorney followed up with the ex and apparently she somehow filed the kekkon/rikon todoke without me. All fine and dandy except what I was unaware of, and the ex confirmed the shiyakusho never mentioned it....by law, if you wife up here, you are required to change your visa status to spousal visa. I knew it was possible and would remove the work criteria limits...but you are required to make the change within a couple months of kekkontodoke filing or else you're technically in violation of of the immigration laws. According to the attorney, this is strictly enforced and violators may be arrested/deported. She thinks it won't be an issue as the inaka shiyakusho are sorta known for failing to notify FG of this requirement BUT she said it is a potential issue if they choose to make it one...

[wuchan]

Just a quick update to this - friend of a friend is an immigration attorney so I had a free consult with her. Based upon all my info and everything, she thinks obtaining PR should be cake. She drew up a 90% complete letter for my exec friends to complete and took copies of the documentation proving I own land here. She says this is where who you know giving immigration a written "love this guy" may speed things up.

The one hiccup I found out is this...the attorney followed up with the ex and apparently she somehow filed the kekkon/rikon todoke without me. All fine and dandy except what I was unaware of, and the ex confirmed the shiyakusho never mentioned it....by law, if you wife up here, you are required to change your visa status to spousal visa. I knew it was possible and would remove the work criteria limits...but you are required to make the change within a couple months of kekkontodoke filing or else you're technically in violation of of the immigration laws. According to the attorney, this is strictly enforced and violators may be arrested/deported. She thinks it won't be an issue as the inaka shiyakusho are sorta known for failing to notify FG of this requirement BUT she said it is a potential issue if they choose to make it one...

wait, you got married to the daughter of a shinto priest and didn't convert to the (while you are married) invincible visa?

Now I know those exploits were not too long ago BUT if you dealt with that shit for THREE years you would have been SPOON FED permanent fuckedness.


reminds me..... maybe it's time.

[matsuki]

I don't even know the filing dates for each but I suspect it wasn't even a year...talk about blink and miss it.

[wagyl]

by law, if you wife up here, you are required to change your visa status to spousal visa. I knew it was possible and would remove the work criteria limits...but you are required to make the change within a couple months of kekkontodoke filing or else you're technically in violation of of the immigration laws. According to the attorney, this is strictly enforced and violators may be arrested/deported. She thinks it won't be an issue as the inaka shiyakusho are sorta known for failing to notify FG of this requirement BUT she said it is a potential issue if they choose to make it one...

I haven't seen anything on the Immigration site to back this up -- the only thing vaguely relevant that I saw was in a FAQ about what to do if divorced while on a spouse visa. As you say it is just that you are on a more restricted visa than the one you are entitled to, so it makes little sense, but you know and I know that whether something makes any sense is not a consideration in this field.

If such a rule does exist, it would have to be quite nuanced. For example, as stated that sounds like if a person with PR or a Zainichi marries a Japanese person they must step down to a spouse visa, and I doubt that that is the case, either.

[legion]

If it becomes an issue just ask them for the best way to resolve it. Straight off the bat, before they go down the mental process of potential punitive measures put them on the quest for the wa.

[Coligny]

If it becomes an issue just ask them for the best way to resolve it. Straight off the bat, before they go down the mental process of potential punitive measures put them on the quest for the wa.

Yup... +1 here... and try to look like a lost little boy (at least usually works for me )

[matsuki]

by law, if you wife up here, you are required to change your visa status to spousal visa. I knew it was possible and would remove the work criteria limits...but you are required to make the change within a couple months of kekkontodoke filing or else you're technically in violation of of the immigration laws. According to the attorney, this is strictly enforced and violators may be arrested/deported. She thinks it won't be an issue as the inaka shiyakusho are sorta known for failing to notify FG of this requirement BUT she said it is a potential issue if they choose to make it one...

I haven't seen anything on the Immigration site to back this up -- the only thing vaguely relevant that I saw was in a FAQ about what to do if divorced while on a spouse visa. As you say it is just that you are on a more restricted visa than the one you are entitled to, so it makes little sense, but you know and I know that whether something makes any sense is not a consideration in this field.

If such a rule does exist, it would have to be quite nuanced. For example, as stated that sounds like if a person with PR or a Zainichi marries a Japanese person they must step down to a spouse visa, and I doubt that that is the case, either.

Exactly what my position was...but the attorney insists it's a mandatory procedure that is strictly enforced and she was really confused that I didn't bother. I think PR or Zainichi wouldn't apply, as you say, it would be stepping down. I'll ask for clarification since someone reading this is bound to come across the same situation.

If it becomes an issue just ask them for the best way to resolve it. Straight off the bat, before they go down the mental process of potential punitive measures put them on the quest for the wa.

The attorney is going to handle everything so I don't need to even go to immigration but she basically said she will explain that I wasn't made aware of the requirement. In her own words "damn inaka shiyakusho."