Death & Taxes

[dimwit]

Why the barf Mike? Credit where it is due, Suntory was actually been making some fairly good beers. I wouldn't call them 'craft' but they are much better than the regular swill. I think they even hired a brewer and tried using hops among other bizarre ideas.

[Mike Oxlong]

I got Half Pints Brewing's Little Scrapper IPA in my head which appeared not long before I departed for these shores. The Suntory is not even a pale shadow of those suds.

[dimwit]

I am no expert in this field, but I do know of some Japanese IPAs from at least ten years ago (indeed, they put out a tenth anniversary edition a couple of years ago). Not to my taste, and very likely not very much like what anyone else thinks of when they think of an IPA, either.

Their are a whole pile of IPAs on the market and they can differ dramatically in alcohol content, IBU and color. Some micros have gone for the American IPA style and they pull them off fairly well. Others are less bitter and more balanced. The problem for me is that I just don't know what I'm getting when I pick up an IPA.

[dimwit]

I got Half Pints Brewing's Little Scrapper IPA in my head which appeared not long before I departed for these shores. The Suntory is not even a pale shadow of those suds.

Okay, I get where you are coming from. Never tried that one, although it sounds like the kind of thing that would definitely get you through 'Winterpeg'.

[matsuki]

I think they even hired a brewer and tried using hops among other bizarre ideas.

What a strange idea...

Beer nerd I know just came back from Tokyo and was going on and on about how terrible everything labelled "beer" was. (He tried everything he could find while here) How do you explain happoshu? hah

[Samurai_Jerk]

Beer nerd

I think the term you're looking for is "fag."

[wagyl]

I revive this beery zombie to post a link Matsuki sent me. I can't think why he chose me.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/community/ ... ts-liable/

On first reading I thought that nothing had changed, but on closer inspection, short and medium term residents on work visas get an escape, longer term or non-work visa residents get a longer lasting chain around their gonads.

[wuchan]

they can go fuck themselves.

[Yokohammer]

How are they planning to enforce this for people who no longer live here (or give a shit)? Agreements with overseas tax bureaus?


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[matsuki]

How are they planning to enforce this for people who no longer live here (or give a shit)? Agreements with overseas tax bureaus?

...on non-citizens inheriting overseas property that have never even been to Japan. Lofty goals indeed.

[wagyl]

How are they planning to enforce this for people who no longer live here (or give a shit)? Agreements with overseas tax bureaus?

My thoughts exactly: the dog may bark but most of his teeth have fallen out. To extend that metaphor, the dog is also going deaf (not all overseas tax authorities formally record assets other than bank accounts).

However, certain high net asset individuals may choose to postpone seeing the delights of Cool Japan with their very own eyes for a few years after a sad bereavement.

[legion]

Tax offices talk to each other, My Number facilitates this.

I think the limit is 30 million yen, then you start paying.

[Wage Slave]

They claim they don't even have to talk to each other. They share the same database so all A N Tax Assessor has to do is tap in a my number or a TIN which are amazingly identical in format and the information will appear on screen.

FATCA or some such.

[matsuki]

They claim they don't even have to talk to each other. They share the same database so all A N Tax Assessor has to do is tap in a my number or a TIN which are amazingly identical in format and the information will appear on screen.

FATCA or some such.

Worst case scenario, if you have siblings and they aren't prone to do the "Japanese style" fight over inheritance, there is always that route...

[Coligny]

Countries believing their laws have values beyond their borders are fascinating...

(Well... until their army start parades, walking down the Champs Elysees of course...)

[legion]

Countries believing their laws have values beyond their borders are fascinating...

(Well... until their army start parades, walking down the Champs Elysees of course...)

Don't want to worry you but

There is a special kind of person that opts to work in a tax office.

[Coligny]

The same that join the police force despite being able to make a fortune by selling their extra chromosomes ?

[wangta]

Posters like legion and wageslave are correct in this thread. There's a bit too much of the ol complacency going on among some posters here - the J authorites just like those in our home cuntries are very interested in these matters no matter how relatively small the fish are.

Why? The big fish have the ways and means to avoid what we can't. Factor in the ultimate fact - our governments are broke. They are in debt. The USA relies on China buying its Treasury bonds to keep afloat, municipalities all over the US are broke, pension funds are going bust, a lot of this is to do with govts of both stripes buying votes from voter groups with financial promises. In Oz, around 40 percent or more of the population receives some welfare benefit, we didn't have a national debt in the early to mid 21st century but then the Labor govt came in and started borrowing to give more largesse to buy votes and do pork barrelling to keep votes.

All over the world there is no govt except ones like Norway and a few others that aren't on the hook for promises they can't keep and for the karma that comes from spending like drunken sailors. Except the debt will be paid by us, not the pollies etc.
In this cuntry, do you really think that the J authorities like all other authorities in tax collecting cuntries are justified in upping their claim to everybody's money and just as importantly TO KNOW about everybody's money, even the pathetic 100 bucks a yr some gaijin earn in interest abroad?

The J Gov is heavily in debt. I'd say start at home - tax these cunts and the other cunts who run other cuntries on their own money first. Then others might feel they are justified in all their agreements with our cuntries to pry into the savings that were made by hard work and doing without unlike these bastards of all political stripes. Tax the wealth gained by the Aso family thru their slavery of Koreans and POWS in their family mines, tax the inheritance of Abe, the money that came from criminal/rapist grandfather Kishi. Tax em all first.

Another inconvenient truth - the tax base in Japan is shrinking along with its ageing population and significant increase in working poor among the younger generation. Do you really think that this new insolent claim to everybody's money and information back home, even if your income is low, re gaijin, is not important and is part of a 'persecution complex'? There's enough firsthand evidence and anecdotal evidence I've heard from lowly Engrish teachers to tell me that the ante's been upped because this broke, xenophobic govt like all the other 'first world' ones is desperate to get any yen from anybody.

[matsuki]

Do you really think that this new insolent claim to everybody's money and information back home, even if your income is low, re gaijin, is not important and is part of a 'persecution complex'? There's enough firsthand evidence and anecdotal evidence I've heard from lowly Engrish teachers to tell me that the ante's been upped because this broke, xenophobic govt like all the other 'first world' ones is desperate to get any yen from anybody.

Hey now, those tax dollars go to protecting your basic human rights....oh wait

[legion]

Another inconvenient truth - the tax base in Japan is shrinking along with its ageing population and significant increase in working poor among the younger generation.

The jijis probably pay more tax on their pension than the freeter in the conbini does on their pittance.

Every morning I cycle past our local sports grounds, see lots of happy jijis out playing happy jiji baseball, those buggers aren't going anywhere for a long time. Well, they are probably going to Nomura Shoken to see how their money is doing. In the meantime the younger generation is dying off from crap food and overwork.

[inflames]

I looked into it and figured out, in general, some of the ways wealthier people avoid inheritance taxes.

First of all, life insurance in the US generally isn't taxable and isn't reported on a 1040.
Then, if structures like trusts exist in one jurisdiction and not in others, you can use this (similarly if the rules are different).

Finally, you can just set up some BS company and try to do the Mutt Romney trick - value the shares of your multimillion dollar company at par value (only works if the company isn't publicly traded though).

[Russell]

Soo, I Skyped with my genki old man a week ago, he goes out for his daily walk, gets a cardiac arrest half an hour later, is transported to hospital, and dies there a few hours later.

Funeral already finished, but now comes the hard part: the inheritance. I read this whole thread, but could not get the right info yet, so maybe some of you guys can enlighten me.

The Netherlands appears to tax the heirs (not the estate), and with that they would be similar to Japan. I do not care to pay to either of the countries, as long as it is not double taxation. Anyway, I made a tentative calculation, and there may not be a substantive difference between the expected tax on the amount I will inherit. I have no interest in avoiding taxes, because they are the cost for participating in society. It looks like I will be liable for inheritance tax in Japan, so I assume that is the case in the following.

There is basically cash on the bank, a house, and a car. Selling the car may be easy, but selling the house will take more time. My question is, will the Japanese tax office accept the house's value as determined by an appraiser in the Netherlands? Or would they require the house to be sold to determine the tax? I ask this because I need to file my taxes in Japan (according to this thread) within 10 months of death, but it is unlikely that I can clean up and sell the house within this short time period.

I plan to open a separate bank account in the Netherlands to which all the proceeds of the inheritance will go. In this way there will be no confusion with my already existing bank accounts in the Netherlands. Later I will transfer all money from the inheritance account to Japan. Does that sound like a plan?

Does anyone know a reliable and experienced tax advisor in the Hyogo-Osaka area? There is this one in Chiba according to this article, but I look for a similar advisor nearer to me.

[Taro Toporific]

I need to file my taxes in Japan (according to this thread) within 10 months of death, but it is unlikely that I can clean up and sell the house within this short time period...
...I plan to open a separate bank account in the Netherlands to which all the proceeds of the inheritance will go. In this way there will be no confusion with my already existing bank accounts in the Netherlands. Later I will transfer all money from the inheritance account to Japan. Does that sound like a plan?

Sorry for your loss.

In the States, that separate bank account is called an "Escrow" account for an estate---A very wise idea.
A good full-service bank will have bank officials that will help you with the process and make good suggestions. (Bankers do this every day--It's all traditional banks are good for anymore.)

I need to file my taxes in Japan (according to this thread) within 10 months of death...

Japan has some way to file for an extension for that 10-month deadline, and that extension seems to used by many, many people because many Japanese estates have "complications." Your estate lawyer/accountant will know more.

[Grumpy Gramps]

Sorry, @Russell, can't help with the tax issue, just wanted to send my condolences.

[Wage Slave]

Very sorry to hear that Russell. It's times like this one feels far far from home.

When I looked at this with Wagyl's help, I didn't seek the help of a tax accountant but rather a (locally) well known businessman I happen to know. He is also recently qualified as a 行政書士 Gyōsei shoshi. He gathered all the relevant information and went to the tax office and asked them directly what my liabilities and responsibilities were.

Every case is different but the following key findings may be relevant to you:

1. Inheritance tax is, as you say, taxed at an individual level according to what the individual actually receives.
2. Below the basic threshold (I believe currently 30 million Yen + 6 million per heir) no tax is payable and there is no need to report.

The principle of avoidance of double taxation applies in the case of almost all nations so I would assume if you have to pay IT in Holland then any liability calculated in Japan can be set against that.

[wagyl]

Thinking of you, Russell. Some of us have been there too, but not all of us have had the responsibility of tidying up the affairs remotely. It is going to be difficult, but at least you can say that it will keep you busy, and keep the memory of your father with you, while you go through the grieving process. I hope that he was in some really nice scenery during his walk.

I'm afraid that I don't have recommendations of accountants. Most of the information I can search for on the web relates to Japanese nationals who are in the Netherlands, and their situation. If you are having trouble sleeping, EY (formerly Ernst & Young) have their 404 page pdf on various inheritance tax regimes. The Netherlands is from page 218, Japan from page 182.

The valuation of land and structures on it for Japanese purposes is covered in there: it can be an assessment. Japan heavily discounts the valuation of compact residential land and buildings for these purposes. I note also that in the Netherlands, the assessment of the value of a residence is also not necessarily the Fair Market Value, but is subject to the rules of the Real Estate Appraisal Act.

Beware any thoughts that there is a principle against double taxation, or that avoiding double taxation is a right. When it comes to inheritance tax, the only double taxation treaty Japan has signed is with the United States. I have mentioned the Japan-Netherlands situation before viewtopic.php?f=11&t=30700&p=355241&hilit=double+taxation#p355241
About the only thing I can think of where you have a reduced tax liability in the second country -- in this case Japan -- is that you might be able to say to Japan that the behest you are receiving is ([amount your old man left you]-[the amount you had to pay the Dutch tax authorities]), so in that way your liability to Japan is slightly reduced.
I see that Wage Slave at one stage said that tax paid in the United Kingdom can be deducted from any tax liability in Japan. viewtopic.php?f=11&t=30700&start=210#p372641 However, there is no Inheritance Tax treaty between those countries, and I have seen no other information in support of that view. EDIT: see the following two posts, which provide information in support of Wage Slave's statement.

I'm assuming that you are the only heir/the executor appointed in any will. I see that the Netherlands has a funky system where the rate of tax changes depending on the relationship to the deceased, and as you say, it is the beneficiary who is liable to pay the tax, but note that you share that responsibility if you are an executor. If it is only you, then there is no practical difference. A separate account for the estate is always a good idea. It is easy to consolidate later, and very difficult to tease out the different accounts after the event if you have bunched them together too soon.

[Wage Slave]

I'm relying on memory so am happy to be contradicted about double taxation but p181 (or 175 depending on how you are counting) of this apparently excellent and pretty comprehensive document would support the view that Japan grants foreign tax credits for inheritance tax. There's a comprehensive worked example as well - A byzantine way of calculating to say the least.

A foreign tax credit is available in order to avoid double taxation on the inheritance.

http://www.ey.com/Publication/vwLUAssets/ey-worldwide-estate-and-inheritance-tax-guide-june-2016/$FILE/ey-worldwide-estate-and-inheritance-tax-guide-june-2016.pdf

Googling around I see that Japan and Holland have a pretty recent (2010) bespoke double tax agreement that conforms to OECD standards. So that's good news too.

My own experience with the local Tax Office is that the assessor was strongly encouraging me to put a figure in the box for foreign income tax credit. Even to the point the guy was asking me if I had forgotten tax deducted at source - I had to explain to him that I would claim 95% of it back against my personal allowance so that's why my claim was so low. They certainly weren't resisting double taxation relief - on the contrary.

[wagyl]

Thank you for clearing that up and correcting me. Your link is the previous year's edition of the pdf that I linked. The text you quoted is the same in this year's edition as well. Red face (Santa face?) that I didn't read it closely enough.

[Russell]

Thanks all for your warm and wise words.

As far as I understand, the Dutch law/regulations state that someone having lived outside of the Netherlands for more than five years will be subject to the laws/regulations of the country of residence with regard to inheritance tax, so it looks pretty clear that I will need to pay tax to Japan.

Wagyl, I am not the only heir, having one sister, so she will handle the local things.

Nevertheless, shipping stuff to Japan is going to be pretty bothersome. My dad had a huge collection of HO model trains, of which I'll receive most. I am wondering to take some of them in my carry-on luggage and check-in luggage on my way back next week, and ship the rest by sea on a later date. I guess nobody here has experience with how security at airports handles this? Some of them might actually think that I could use those locomotives as weapons? When I google, it appears not to be a big problem, but one never knows...

[legion]

Nevertheless, shipping stuff to Japan is going to be pretty bothersome. My dad had a huge collection of HO model trains, of which I'll receive most. I am wondering to take some of them in my carry-on luggage and check-in luggage on my way back next week, and ship the rest by sea on a later date. I guess nobody here has experience with how security at airports handles this? Some of them might actually think that I could use those locomotives as weapons? When I google, it appears not to be a big problem, but one never knows...

If I were you I'd pack them carefully and ship them over professionally. In my experience the customs guys here are very understanding when it comes to items of obvious personal emotional value. There are tax rates set according to the type of item. The main issue is you will set a value for insurance against damage or loss, and they will calculate the tax against this. I found going down to the docks and clearing the stuff quite interesting.