Uplifting News

[Grumpy Gramps]

No thread for good news found. OK I'll make one:

Thailand cave rescue: Boys found alive after nine days

All 12 boys and their football coach have been found alive after nine days missing in caves in Thailand, in a drama that gripped the nation.

All of them are safe, an official confirmed, speaking after the mammoth search operation in the Tham Luang caves in Chiang Rai.

The challenge now will be to extract the party safely, with rising water and mud impeding access.

Families of the missing group were ecstatic at news of the rescue.

The missing group were discovered by naval special forces, Chiang Rai governor Narongsak Osottanakorn said.

Rescuers had hoped they would find safety on a ledge in an underground chamber nicknamed Pattaya Beach but they were found 400 metres (440 yards) away having moved to higher ground to avoid the rising water.
Media captionFootage from the Thai Navy shows rescuers at the Tham Luang caves in Chiang Rai

The group's plight has gripped the country and led to an outpouring of support.

The boys aged 11 to 16 and their coach went to explore the caves on 23 June.

[...]

[Russell]

Let's hope they make it out alive.

Those caves in Thailand are scary. When I was younger, I visited one and miss stepped. It took me a couple of years before my bruised ankle was completely cured.

[Russell]

Holy fuck...

Thailand cave rescue: What now for the boys?

The rescuers dubbed it 'mission impossible' but they defied the odds to locate the 12 boys and their football coach deep in a cave complex. However the hard part may yet be ahead: getting them out safely.

Here are a few ways the hungry and weak boys could get out, none easy options:

Could they dive out?

In theory yes: but it is an extremely difficult task. Cave diving is already very risky, especially for young boys in a weakened state who have no diving experience.

Tham Luang cave where the boys have been trapped is one of Thailand's longest at six miles and one of the hardest to navigate with its winding and at times narrow corridors.

If they dive, they have no choice but to follow the steps that rescuers took though tiny passageways clogged with mud and silt. That journey takes a healthy - and skilled - Navy SEAL diver about six hours.

Officials said they would attempt to train the boys to use crucial diving gear after they are rehabilitated with food, water and medical support.

'Cave diving is a very technical skill and it's extremely dangerous, especially for an untrained diver,' Anmar Mirza, coordinator of the US National Cave Rescue Commission, told AFP.

'So they may end up being better off trying to supply them in cave until they can be gotten out by other means.'

Bill Whitehouse, from the British Cave Rescue Council which is helping the rescue effort, said the boys may end up being guided through the water in 'packages'.

He told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: 'In other words you fit them with diving equipment: a full face mask, instead of having a gag in your mouth like a lot of divers use; package them up; put the correct weights on them so that they are neutrally bouyant and are not going to get stuck again.'

Could they be dug out?

Explorers have spent days scouring the mountain top for possible alternative openings. They have found a few 'promising' leads and have tried to drill deeper.

But there is no indication that any of those chimneys connect to the chamber where the boys have been stranded.

Again, the boys need to spend time getting stronger in the depths of the cave before they can attempt to climb up a second entry - if one is found - or be lifted out.

What about walking out?

This would be the safest option, but at the moment it is impossible because parts of the route remain flooded. So in theory they could wait, but that means hoping that flood waters subside.

Water pumps are working around the clock to drain the floods though it has been an uphill battle for much of the week as heavy rains refused to let up. If the current break in bad weather sticks, this option could be more promising - but weather forecasters warn downpours may soon return as monsoon season sets in.

'If the rain fills up the cave system then that might take months before the water drops again,' Belgian diver Ben Reymenants, owner of Blue Label Diving in Thailand who is assisting the search, told AFP.

How long could it take?

Hard to say for sure. It depends how long it takes for them to regain strength. Experts say they could remain inside for weeks - or even months - as rescuers work out the safest option for their extraction.

The military said Tuesday it was preparing enough food for four months but did not speculate they could be in there that long.

Are the boys even in the right mindset to move?

They clearly want to leave. In footage that emerged after the boys were found by two British divers late Monday one asks to 'go outside.' One of the diver replies 'I know, I understand... no, not today.'

Even if they are physically fit enough to dive, they will need the mental prowess to stay calm in the murky waters and claustrophobic passageways that stand between them and freedom. Fortunately, they seem in pretty good shape, considering.

'They're mentally stable which is actually pretty good,' Reymenants said. 'Luckily the coach had the sanity of mind to keep them all together, huddled together to conserve their energy, that basically saved them.'

[Grumpy Gramps]

Could they be dug out?

Explorers have spent days scouring the mountain top for possible alternative openings. They have found a few 'promising' leads and have tried to drill deeper.

But there is no indication that any of those chimneys connect to the chamber where the boys have been stranded.

I was thinking along the same lines, like "send in Bruce Willis and his Armageddon deep-core drillers and dig 'em out". But it is not that easy, not even on planet Earth. Space Force anyone?

OTOH send food, fresh water, electricity, internet, toilets and everything else they need in and keep them supplied and physically/mentally healthy until they can walk out, is not exactly an easy task either.

Diving them out one way or another is likely the best way IMHO.

[Russell]

Could they be dug out?

Explorers have spent days scouring the mountain top for possible alternative openings. They have found a few 'promising' leads and have tried to drill deeper.

But there is no indication that any of those chimneys connect to the chamber where the boys have been stranded.

I was thinking along the same lines, like "send in Bruce Willis and his Armageddon deep-core drillers and dig 'em out". But it is not that easy, not even on planet Earth. Space Force anyone?

OTOH send food, fresh water, electricity, internet, toilets and everything else they need in and keep them supplied and physically/mentally healthy until they can walk out, is not exactly an easy task either.

Diving them out one way or another is likely the best way IMHO.

I am not sure how that can be done.

At the right side of the pic is a narrow passage through which a diver cannot pass unless he removes his oxygen tank. That appears to me as a major deal breaker.

And it takes an experienced cave diver 6 hours to get from the boys to the entrance of the cave. And the boys can't even swim.

Let's just hope that the water doesn't start to rise again when the monsoon rains come, because that could lead to the nightmare scenario of them drowning.

[Grumpy Gramps]

Some years ago, they dug out some miners in Chile and brought the men back in a specially built capsule. But then I think, the geology must be very different there. The place in Thailand is very porous and would likely collapse easily, while gold mines are usually hard(er) rock? And the boys would likely not win much time. In Chile it took months to drill that shaft, so they might as well just wait it out.

[wagyl]

The problem with uplifting news. Gravity has a habit of operating on the corners of it.
Thai rescue diver dead after falling unconscious in cave.

[Russell]

Rescue has started. Let's hope no more casualties.

[Grumpy Gramps]

And nobody seems to be interested Elon Musk's rescue pods that he quickly stitched together with a hot needle

Full marks to Elon for trying, though (get some publicity, asshole?).

I hope, the boys make it out.

[Mike Oxlong]

Wow! Two out and apparently fine.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/thai-cave ... -1.4738333

[Russell]

Four boys rescued now.

Live report

[Mike Oxlong]

Godspeed.

[Wage Slave]

Great news. 6 out now and the others to come out tomorrow.

[Russell]

Great news. 6 out now and the others to come out tomorrow.

Some confusion about the number out, but it appears to be 4. And it may take 2 more days.

[Grumpy Gramps]

8

[Mike Oxlong]

11

[Russell]

All 12 boys and their coach out now alive. Three Thai Navy Seals and an Australian doctor-diver are expected to emerge soon. [...]

[Mike Oxlong]

And Elon Musk managed a nice photo op before it all ended.

[Russell]

And Elon Musk managed a nice photo op before it all ended.

Dunno if that's uplifting though...

[Russell]

The last rescuers have also emerged from the cave. It appears the Australian doctor was already out before, and replaced by a Thai doctor.

And.

That didn't take long...

Elon Musk claims his submarine could have rescued Thai boys from cave

Elon Musk has disputed reports about the usefulness of his plan to rescue the Thai boys from underground.

The SpaceX boss said he had invented a tiny submarine that could be used to carry the boys out from the cave network, without having to teach them to dive or swim.

Mr Musk's plan was reported to have been called "not practical" by Narongsak Osatanakorn, who has been co-ordinating the mission. That report came after some criticism of the plan from people who argued that the relatively large submarine would not be able to fit around the tight cave network the boys had to navigate.

“Even though their equipment is technologically sophisticated, it doesn’t fit with our mission to go in the cave,” Mr Osatanakorn told the BBC.

But Mr Musk said that he was certain the submarine would have been able to navigate the tight gaps and difficult corners inside the cave network.

"Based on extensive cave video review & discussion with several divers who know journey, SpaceX engineering is absolutely certain that mini-sub can do entire journey & demonstrate at any time," he wrote. In response to a question about a particularly difficult corner that would seem to have ruled out using the submarine, he said it was "specifically designed to pass that point".

Mr Musk also said that his submarine plan was encouraged by people working on the rescue. And he said that Mr Osatanakorn, who the BBC had described as a "rescue chief" because he is working to co-ordinate efforts, was not in a position to judge the plan.

"The former Thai provincial governor (described inaccurately as 'rescue chief') is not the subject matter expert," Mr Musk wrote. "That would be Dick Stanton, who co-led the dive rescue team."

He then shared what he said were emailed from Richard Stanton, one of the British divers who have been called in to help on the work. In those messages, Mr Stanton appeared to encourage Mr Musk to keep working on his designs.

"It is absolutely worth continuing with the development of this system in as timely a manner as feasible," one of the messages reads. "If the rain holds out it may well be used."

More

Though that thing might be designed with all those nooks and crannies in mind, the risk of it getting stuck somewhere is just too large. It is not as if they measured the insides of the cave in detail.

Then there is a logistic problem. This rescue pod would need to be transported to the inside of the cave first, and then could be used for one boy at a time. That is much slower than the rescue plan in which pairs of boys were extracted.

And one more reason, what if there is a medical emergency during the rescue? Could you get a boy out?

And finally, this pod was not tested, so it is unclear whether it would've worked as designed. It was clearly a last option.

[Grumpy Gramps]

"Based on extensive cave video review

But, but, but, Musk has seen it on YouTube... and he read all the comments. Therefore he knows best.

But I agree, Stanton was surely wise enough to just let Musk do what he wanted and if all else failed and the situation got desperate, then 'maybe' give it a whirl. A u-boat that was cobbled together within 24 hours and has never been tested is not where you want to place your kids, not even on a sunny day in a swimming pool. Musk should go first or shut up.

[Mike Oxlong]

He threw this up on Twitter.

[Grumpy Gramps]

Stanton seems to be a good boss. Keeps his subalterns motivated

[wagyl]

Poor poor Elon Musk though. He can't find the grace to be happy that he offered assistance: he feels that he needs a reason that his offer was, ultimately, not taken up. So much so that he presents evidence to the Court of Social Media. While I have some sympathy in that he continued with development based on the replies he received, I still think that his actions now provide a window to his personality. Elon, shocking though it may seem, this is NOT all about you. Not that I am really surprised, after my experience in downtown East Pretoria...

[Wage Slave]

[Taro Toporific]

Holy fuck...

First look at Scarlett Johansson in Thai cave rescue movie.

Scarlet-Johansson.jpg

via @consequence

[Russell]

Holy fuck...

First look at Scarlett Johansson in Thai cave rescue movie.

Scarlet-Johansson.jpg

via @consequence

Taro, you think there would've been even more volunteers if she would've been in that cave?!?

Anyway, it gives a new meaning to the word "uplifting"...

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

...downtown East Pretoria...

Perth?

[Grumpy Gramps]

Elon Musk can 'stick his submarine where it hurts', says British caver who helped rescue Thai schoolboys

A British diver who was instrumental in rescuing a schoolboy football team from a flooded cave in Thailand has told Elon Musk to “stick his submarine where it hurts”, describing the entrepreneur’s offer to help the mission with a miniature submersible a “PR stunt”.

Vern Unsworth said a six-foot submarine the SpaceX boss invented and handed to the rescue team “had absolutely no chance of working” because the billionaire inventor “had no conception of what the cave passage was like”.

Mr Musk travelled to the Tham Luang caverns in Chiang Rai earlier this week and presented the “kid sized” vessel, which he said could help free 12 schoolboys stranded for weeks inside the network of waterlogged tunnels with their coach.

[...]

“The submarine, I believe, was about five foot six long, rigid, so it wouldn’t have gone round corners or round any obstacles.

“It wouldn’t have made the first 50 metres into the cave from the dive start point. Just a PR stunt.”

Clashing egos

[Russell]

Elon Musk can 'stick his submarine where it hurts', says British caver who helped rescue Thai schoolboys

A British diver who was instrumental in rescuing a schoolboy football team from a flooded cave in Thailand has told Elon Musk to “stick his submarine where it hurts”, describing the entrepreneur’s offer to help the mission with a miniature submersible a “PR stunt”.

Vern Unsworth said a six-foot submarine the SpaceX boss invented and handed to the rescue team “had absolutely no chance of working” because the billionaire inventor “had no conception of what the cave passage was like”.

Mr Musk travelled to the Tham Luang caverns in Chiang Rai earlier this week and presented the “kid sized” vessel, which he said could help free 12 schoolboys stranded for weeks inside the network of waterlogged tunnels with their coach.

[...]

“The submarine, I believe, was about five foot six long, rigid, so it wouldn’t have gone round corners or round any obstacles.

“It wouldn’t have made the first 50 metres into the cave from the dive start point. Just a PR stunt.”

Clashing egos

I would rather call it "clashing physics".