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  • fuckedgaijin ‹ General ‹ Gaijin Ghetto

How Are You Guys Holding Up?

Groovin' in the Gaijin Gulag
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Re: How Are You Guys Holding Up?

Postby wangta » Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:05 pm

Russell wrote:And another article wondering why Japan is doing so well with the Corona virus...

Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

At the time of writing, Japan has just over 900 confirmed cases of coronavirus. That’s 900 cases recorded over a two-month period since the first person — a man who had traveled to Wuhan — was confirmed to have the disease while in a Japanese hospital between Jan. 10 and 15.

In Italy, the first case was recorded two weeks later than in Japan, on Jan. 23. Shortly after, 50,000 people were quarantined in a handful of towns in the Lombardy region. Then, it was the entire north. Now, the entire country is in quarantine, with over 40,000 confirmed cases and 3,600 dead.

In the U.S., New York has closed its bars and restaurants and California has imposed similarly wide-scale “shelter in place” restrictions on the movement of its people and the activities of its citizens.

Look around Tokyo now, and you’ll see no such scene has unfolded. Despite the cancellation of sports events, the closure of schools, and the shutting down of some, but not all, larger entertainment venues, much of Japan continues as normal. There is no quarantine and no enforced closures of bars or restaurants. Even clubs (easy places to get sick at the best of times) remain open.

If you want to eat ramen at 4 a.m., fine. If you get on the subway, you’ll see it slightly emptier, but still heaving. If you want to rent a car and drive from one end of the country and back again, do it — there’s nothing stopping you. Which means there’s very little stopping the spread of the disease either.

So why the difference? How has Japan seemingly escaped the spread of the coronavirus when other countries have suffered so badly?

When you look at the factors that have made the virus spread quickly and easily elsewhere, Japan meets all of the same criteria. It has close contact with China, where the disease originated. Its cities are vast and dense, people are crammed into small apartments and squeezed together on trains (more so than many other cities), and despite requests for people to stagger their commutes and attempt to telework, Tokyo, with its population of 38 million people, remains busy.

One reason that Italy has been hit so badly, according to the World Health Organization, is the age of its population: The country has the oldest average age in Europe, the second oldest in the world, and coronavirus disproportionately affects the elderly, whose immune systems may not be strong enough to stave off the pneumonia the virus causes. Here, Japan one-ups Italy, its population is the world’s oldest and is just as vulnerable.

A common factor behind the deaths recorded in China was smoking — those with already damaged lungs are more likely to succumb pneumonia. Here again, Japan triumphs in its vulnerability — the government still owns 33 percent of Japan Tobacco and legislation toward smoking here is extremely lax. In 2017, Japan had the highest rate of male smoking among the G7 nations.

And it’s not like Japan has placed strict measures on its citizens to keep the disease under control. It has neither imposed the level of quarantine we saw in China to curb the outbreak, nor has it been strict with its travel restrictions. Most travelers can still visit Japan, and those from restricted countries aren’t banned entirely, they are just asked to voluntarily self-isolate for 14 days.

So again you have to ask why the difference? How is Japan reporting such low numbers?

The cynical answer points to the country’s low testing rates, that Japan has recorded such a low number of cases precisely because it isn’t testing. Of course, a question mark hangs over the Olympics and whether the government is attempting to keep confirmed cases low so that the games proceed as planned.

Unlike South Korea, where we are seeing rigorous testing, and despite World Health Organization advice to “test, test, test,” Japan has stuck to a policy of testing only those with extended visible symptoms or a history of direct contact with those who have tested positive, attempting to isolate small clusters before they grow. New tests that produce produce results in 10-15 minutes are becoming available, but even with the improved tech, under the current policy a test will only be administered in the most extreme circumstances, when people have had a fever for four days or more.

But if the government’s testing regime is a failure, surely we’d see evidence of the disease’s spread in other ways. Its presence would appear not as positive test results but in the guise of an overwhelmed health care system and overcrowded mortuaries. We have seen no such evidence.

Three trains of thought lead from here: conspiracy, good fortune and efficacy.

Conspiracy would suggest that there is a widespread cover up, that people are dying in their homes, untested and untreated, or being given false death records in hospital. It is, however, hard to believe that a nation’s worth of doctors would be, or could be, silent if the number of deaths we are seeing in Italy were occurring here. While an authoritarian government might dream of being able to control its population to that extent, the reality is unattainable; doctors would speak out to prevent deaths — we saw them speaking out in China, we’d see it here.


Thanks for the article Russell, I cut a lot out but the logic above isn't very good. I'd be interested to see the present mortality rates in Japan for everybody - and that way we could find out more about how many there are and what they are classified as.

Nobody's making any comparisons to Italy or wherever but I think we'll find that there are cases of COVID-19 deaths being listed as heart failure or other underlying conditions that were made terminal by the virus. Just like AIDS deaths in Japan and many other countries are listed as deaths from heart attacks, pneumonia and sepsis to name three - recently two Korean male celebs died of sepsis, wouldn't be surprised to hear they both had AIDS but just like it's still taboo to talk about it elsewhere it's even more in Korea.

The Japanese like many Asians smoke far too much and there are more women smokers than people know. Countries like mine have had extensive anti smoking and alcohol campaigns for at least 20 years and packets of cigs are 20 bucks to discourage the practice. In Japan alcohol advertising is everywhere and binge drinking is fine during the weeknights just as until recently roughing up station staff was too. Posters now proclaim assaulting station staff is a crime - always interested me as I had never assumed anywhere else it was just something that is drunken company men's prerogative.

I don't think Japanese in the smoking, weeknight drinking categories are healthy and I'll expect to find the virus makes its home quite easily in that younger demographic's lungs.

As for the writer's ref to masks - could be true but they leave out a key fact about why Japanese started to wear masks in the first place. It's because they go to work sick whereas other countries like mine always told people to stay home. No need for masks as you're doing the responsible thing by staying away.
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Re: How Are You Guys Holding Up?

Postby wangta » Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:09 pm

Scipio wrote:Wangta, not supporting you, it's just that, the racist rants aside, I agree with the 'generality' of what you said. This present situation in Japan is post-Midway / 21st Century version. I Would like to add that Wage is the genuine article. I've visited Wage a few times in the past and he's the last the guy to bullshit you with fake pictures. If that's what it's like in central Honshu, then that's what it's like. My own experience, in east Tokyo, is more like yours. Luckily I've been working in a US insurance company that does a lot of business in China. In early January, some colleagues mentioned the 'unusual' activity happening with life insurance policies in Central China. From that, I got suspicious and started storing up on household necessities ( I've got enough couscous to feed the Algerian Army for 6 months and enough toilet paper to keep their bottoms clean while they eat that couscous). As my Caporal Chef used to always say, 'It's better to be too careful. If you are wrong in your caution, afterwards you look stupid. If you are wrong with your lack of caution, afterwards you are dead' - it sounds better in French. Some people posting on this thread about how Hunky dory Japan and the Japanese are in a time of crisis, especially if they have families dependent on them, should remember this; better to be stupid than dead. The wisest observation that Kurogane ever commented about the Japanese was, 'they turn on the twirl of a coin'. Hill Street Blues......Be Careful out there.


Actually I wasn't saying wageslave was lying about the toilet paper available - I really want to know where this place is, it looks like Costco. If you're going to show then at least tell the location. I know people in far better locations than where I live - Meguro, Minato, Setagaya and Shinagawa to name only four - and they can't get diddly squat in the way of toilet rolls in their local supermarkets, pharmacies or discount stores.

Believe me there are many frustrated working people out there both J and gaijin who can't get the stuff. We're not free in our time like those grabbing it all.
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Re: How Are You Guys Holding Up?

Postby Russell » Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:37 pm

Here at my local MaxValue supermarket the toilet paper is always sold out, but the home center next toit has usually plenty available recently.

So guys, please, try the home centers.
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Re: How Are You Guys Holding Up?

Postby Mike Oxlong » Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:40 pm

Here it's alcohol wipes, hand sanitizer and masks. All other supplies are abundant thus far.
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Re: How Are You Guys Holding Up?

Postby Wage Slave » Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:43 pm

Russell wrote:Here at my local MaxValue supermarket the toilet paper is always sold out, but the home center next toit has usually plenty available recently.

So guys, please, try the home centers.


The picture I posted earlier was a local BIG supermarket where we do a weekly shop. AEON's pile em high, sell em cheap no frills operation. There is a limit of one pack of toilet paper per family and they usually have a supply. I didn't buy any today as we have ample even with 4 of us.
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Re: How Are You Guys Holding Up?

Postby Wage Slave » Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:48 pm

Mike Oxlong wrote:Here it's alcohol wipes, hand sanitizer and masks. All other supplies are abundant thus far.


Yes, same here. Finding out which days drugstores have a delivery and then turning up at 9.45 will usually get masks. Haven't worried about wipes and alcohol as we already had a decent earthquake stock and bought a few more wipes when we saw alcohol disappear from the shelves. Wipes are useful out and about. Alcohol decanted into a sprayer is great for door handles, table tops and the like.
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Re: How Are You Guys Holding Up?

Postby Russell » Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:52 pm

wangta wrote:
Russell wrote:And another article wondering why Japan is doing so well with the Corona virus...

Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

At the time of writing, Japan has just over 900 confirmed cases of coronavirus. That’s 900 cases recorded over a two-month period since the first person — a man who had traveled to Wuhan — was confirmed to have the disease while in a Japanese hospital between Jan. 10 and 15.

In Italy, the first case was recorded two weeks later than in Japan, on Jan. 23. Shortly after, 50,000 people were quarantined in a handful of towns in the Lombardy region. Then, it was the entire north. Now, the entire country is in quarantine, with over 40,000 confirmed cases and 3,600 dead.

In the U.S., New York has closed its bars and restaurants and California has imposed similarly wide-scale “shelter in place” restrictions on the movement of its people and the activities of its citizens.

Look around Tokyo now, and you’ll see no such scene has unfolded. Despite the cancellation of sports events, the closure of schools, and the shutting down of some, but not all, larger entertainment venues, much of Japan continues as normal. There is no quarantine and no enforced closures of bars or restaurants. Even clubs (easy places to get sick at the best of times) remain open.

If you want to eat ramen at 4 a.m., fine. If you get on the subway, you’ll see it slightly emptier, but still heaving. If you want to rent a car and drive from one end of the country and back again, do it — there’s nothing stopping you. Which means there’s very little stopping the spread of the disease either.

So why the difference? How has Japan seemingly escaped the spread of the coronavirus when other countries have suffered so badly?

When you look at the factors that have made the virus spread quickly and easily elsewhere, Japan meets all of the same criteria. It has close contact with China, where the disease originated. Its cities are vast and dense, people are crammed into small apartments and squeezed together on trains (more so than many other cities), and despite requests for people to stagger their commutes and attempt to telework, Tokyo, with its population of 38 million people, remains busy.

One reason that Italy has been hit so badly, according to the World Health Organization, is the age of its population: The country has the oldest average age in Europe, the second oldest in the world, and coronavirus disproportionately affects the elderly, whose immune systems may not be strong enough to stave off the pneumonia the virus causes. Here, Japan one-ups Italy, its population is the world’s oldest and is just as vulnerable.

A common factor behind the deaths recorded in China was smoking — those with already damaged lungs are more likely to succumb pneumonia. Here again, Japan triumphs in its vulnerability — the government still owns 33 percent of Japan Tobacco and legislation toward smoking here is extremely lax. In 2017, Japan had the highest rate of male smoking among the G7 nations.

And it’s not like Japan has placed strict measures on its citizens to keep the disease under control. It has neither imposed the level of quarantine we saw in China to curb the outbreak, nor has it been strict with its travel restrictions. Most travelers can still visit Japan, and those from restricted countries aren’t banned entirely, they are just asked to voluntarily self-isolate for 14 days.

So again you have to ask why the difference? How is Japan reporting such low numbers?

The cynical answer points to the country’s low testing rates, that Japan has recorded such a low number of cases precisely because it isn’t testing. Of course, a question mark hangs over the Olympics and whether the government is attempting to keep confirmed cases low so that the games proceed as planned.

Unlike South Korea, where we are seeing rigorous testing, and despite World Health Organization advice to “test, test, test,” Japan has stuck to a policy of testing only those with extended visible symptoms or a history of direct contact with those who have tested positive, attempting to isolate small clusters before they grow. New tests that produce produce results in 10-15 minutes are becoming available, but even with the improved tech, under the current policy a test will only be administered in the most extreme circumstances, when people have had a fever for four days or more.

But if the government’s testing regime is a failure, surely we’d see evidence of the disease’s spread in other ways. Its presence would appear not as positive test results but in the guise of an overwhelmed health care system and overcrowded mortuaries. We have seen no such evidence.

Three trains of thought lead from here: conspiracy, good fortune and efficacy.

Conspiracy would suggest that there is a widespread cover up, that people are dying in their homes, untested and untreated, or being given false death records in hospital. It is, however, hard to believe that a nation’s worth of doctors would be, or could be, silent if the number of deaths we are seeing in Italy were occurring here. While an authoritarian government might dream of being able to control its population to that extent, the reality is unattainable; doctors would speak out to prevent deaths — we saw them speaking out in China, we’d see it here.


Thanks for the article Russell, I cut a lot out but the logic above isn't very good. I'd be interested to see the present mortality rates in Japan for everybody - and that way we could find out more about how many there are and what they are classified as.

Nobody's making any comparisons to Italy or wherever but I think we'll find that there are cases of COVID-19 deaths being listed as heart failure or other underlying conditions that were made terminal by the virus. Just like AIDS deaths in Japan and many other countries are listed as deaths from heart attacks, pneumonia and sepsis to name three - recently two Korean male celebs died of sepsis, wouldn't be surprised to hear they both had AIDS but just like it's still taboo to talk about it elsewhere it's even more in Korea.

The Japanese like many Asians smoke far too much and there are more women smokers than people know. Countries like mine have had extensive anti smoking and alcohol campaigns for at least 20 years and packets of cigs are 20 bucks to discourage the practice. In Japan alcohol advertising is everywhere and binge drinking is fine during the weeknights just as until recently roughing up station staff was too. Posters now proclaim assaulting station staff is a crime - always interested me as I had never assumed anywhere else it was just something that is drunken company men's prerogative.

I don't think Japanese in the smoking, weeknight drinking categories are healthy and I'll expect to find the virus makes its home quite easily in that younger demographic's lungs.

As for the writer's ref to masks - could be true but they leave out a key fact about why Japanese started to wear masks in the first place. It's because they go to work sick whereas other countries like mine always told people to stay home. No need for masks as you're doing the responsible thing by staying away.

Wangta, my interest is mainly scientific. It appears that Japan's hospitals are not overwhelmed at all, so this is a prime consideration in judging that the corona virus is not as much of a problem as in the rest of the world. I have some relatives working in a big hospital in Hyogo, and they did not report anything out of the ordinary. Apart from the factors mentioned in the article, it could also be diet. In an earlier post in a different thread I mentioned that Japanese eat relatively much fish. The vitamin D it contains is very effective against catching colds. I noticed myself that I tend to catch less colds when in Japan than when I am in the Netherlands. That could be climate, but diet could also be a factor. So, what else is unique in the Japanese diet? One thing coming to mind is Natto. If this is a factor then I would expect that infection rates in Kansai would be higher than in Kanto, because Natto is less popular in Kansai. Just one hypothesis, but I am sure there may be other reasons why Japan is doing relatively well.

BTW, Germany is doing well too: their death rate is a mere 0.2%, which is very low for this virus. Why is that? They are doing much better than neighboring countries.

Finally, I am not interested to bash country A or country B. Every country has its good points and its bad points. I learned that it is best for my mood to not compare countries, but rather accept them like they are. It is impossible to change them, because their ways are a result of a long history, so it is a waste of time to get angry about stuff.
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Re: How Are You Guys Holding Up?

Postby Wage Slave » Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:00 am

Finally, I am not interested to bash country A or country B. Every country has its good points and its bad points. I learned that it is best for my mood to not compare countries, but rather accept them like they are. It is impossible to change them, because their ways are a result of a long history, so it is a waste of time to get angry about stuff.


Exactly right. And exactly as it will always be - globalism or no globalism.

I have some relatives working in a big hospital in Hyogo, and they did not report anything out of the ordinary.


I talk to four different people every week who work in big hospitals. The only thing out of the ordinary they report is that the number of admissions for winter flu is way down since this thing blew up.
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Re: How Are You Guys Holding Up?

Postby Mike Oxlong » Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:27 am

Yep. School holidays line up pretty nicely with "winter" flu.
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Re: How Are You Guys Holding Up?

Postby kurogane » Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:55 am

Hey Guys,
Long Time No Post (LTNP???), LOL BFF. I hope everybody is holding up, and self-medicating as directed by Those Who Know Better. I had to pull out of the southwest (near Da FUK), where I had been hiding away by the beach, and fly back home to help with my aged Mommy. The plane was ghostly empty, and the service was superb. The Cdn side was a bit like a zombie disaster scene, but there wasn't too much kerfuffle.

Things here are in lockdown mode, but, being Canada, all the rednecks and knobheads are still getting together in groups of 20-30 and partying at the beach, etc. So far, everything is safe and quiet enough, and I loaded up on beans and rice, so all the necessities are covered. Grocery stores are getting pretty bare, and bars and restaurants are closed by order. It looks like it might spike here over the next few weeks (see above reference to knobheads ignoring the advice of their betters), but for now things are cool enough. Boredom is an issue, but I am in the process of emptying out the family place we sold, so there is things to organise, and I might even catch up on some projects. No electrical work, of course, with apologies to Wage Slave. Okay, there it is. Y'all take care now, ya hear! :+)
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Re: How Are You Guys Holding Up?

Postby CrankyBastard » Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:19 am

Hi, kurogane,
Long time, indeed.
I've decided to forget about short term solutions like hoarding bog roll.
I'm in it for the long haul................I planted some apple trees yesterday!
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Re: How Are You Guys Holding Up?

Postby Thanatos' embalmed botfly » Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:19 am

woah, scipio, kurogane and Tomoko the tapeworm all reunited on the same internet message board thread here in 2020... these really are the end times...
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Re: How Are You Guys Holding Up?

Postby kurogane » Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:32 am

Thanatos' embalmed botfly wrote:woah, scipio, kurogane and Tomoko the tapeworm all reunited on the same internet message board thread here in 2020... these really are the end times...


Well, that is 3 of the 4 Horsemen right there............. ;)
How are things Up North? I heard they got whacked early, but things have calmed down. Alright, load yer muskets!
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Re: How Are You Guys Holding Up?

Postby kurogane » Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:34 am

CrankyBastard wrote:Hi, kurogane,
Long time, indeed.
I've decided to forget about short term solutions like hoarding bog roll.
I'm in it for the long haul................I planted some apple trees yesterday!


Aaah, branching out, as it were. I'm still trying to figure out how you wipe with apples..................hehehe
Alright, stay safe!
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Re: How Are You Guys Holding Up?

Postby matsuki » Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:03 am

kurogane wrote:
CrankyBastard wrote:Hi, kurogane,
Long time, indeed.
I've decided to forget about short term solutions like hoarding bog roll.
I'm in it for the long haul................I planted some apple trees yesterday!


Aaah, branching out, as it were. I'm still trying to figure out how you wipe with apples..................hehehe
Alright, stay safe!


Apparently wiping with corn cobs used to be a thing...I wish I was joking :cry2:
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Re: How Are You Guys Holding Up?

Postby Wage Slave » Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:22 pm

kurogane wrote:Hey Guys,
Long Time No Post (LTNP???), LOL BFF. I hope everybody is holding up, and self-medicating as directed by Those Who Know Better. I had to pull out of the southwest (near Da FUK), where I had been hiding away by the beach, and fly back home to help with my aged Mommy. The plane was ghostly empty, and the service was superb. The Cdn side was a bit like a zombie disaster scene, but there wasn't too much kerfuffle.

Things here are in lockdown mode, but, being Canada, all the rednecks and knobheads are still getting together in groups of 20-30 and partying at the beach, etc. So far, everything is safe and quiet enough, and I loaded up on beans and rice, so all the necessities are covered. Grocery stores are getting pretty bare, and bars and restaurants are closed by order. It looks like it might spike here over the next few weeks (see above reference to knobheads ignoring the advice of their betters), but for now things are cool enough. Boredom is an issue, but I am in the process of emptying out the family place we sold, so there is things to organise, and I might even catch up on some projects. No electrical work, of course, with apologies to Wage Slave. Okay, there it is. Y'all take care now, ya hear! :+)


The emergency brings people together eh? Great to hear from the libertarian populist who is actually worth listening to - and look forward to you and Scipio squabbling like it was 2006. There might yet be a chance for Canada to slam dunk the good ole U S of A. You actually have someone competent in charge and a public health system rather than someone totally out of his depth who only knows denial, distraction and quick fixes plus a healthcare system that is designed to deny treatment to anyone who needs a lot of care and lacks the ability to pay a fortune for it. It could be rather like cholera in a POW camp - it won't discriminate. Seal the southern border now! Build a wall!
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Re: How Are You Guys Holding Up?

Postby Mike Oxlong » Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:42 pm

kurogane wrote:Things here are in lockdown mode, but, being Canada, all the rednecks and knobheads are still getting together in groups of 20-30 and partying at the beach, etc. So far, everything is safe and quiet enough, and I loaded up on beans and rice, so all the necessities are covered. Grocery stores are getting pretty bare, and bars and restaurants are closed by order. It looks like it might spike here over the next few weeks (see above reference to knobheads ignoring the advice of their betters), but for now things are cool enough. Boredom is an issue, but I am in the process of emptying out the family place we sold, so there is things to organise, and I might even catch up on some projects. No electrical work, of course, with apologies to Wage Slave. Okay, there it is. Y'all take care now, ya hear! :+)

How's that physical social distancing working with Chinese airlines still flying into Canuckistan multiple times daily?
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Re: How Are You Guys Holding Up?

Postby Wage Slave » Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:56 pm

Mike Oxlong wrote:
kurogane wrote:Things here are in lockdown mode, but, being Canada, all the rednecks and knobheads are still getting together in groups of 20-30 and partying at the beach, etc. So far, everything is safe and quiet enough, and I loaded up on beans and rice, so all the necessities are covered. Grocery stores are getting pretty bare, and bars and restaurants are closed by order. It looks like it might spike here over the next few weeks (see above reference to knobheads ignoring the advice of their betters), but for now things are cool enough. Boredom is an issue, but I am in the process of emptying out the family place we sold, so there is things to organise, and I might even catch up on some projects. No electrical work, of course, with apologies to Wage Slave. Okay, there it is. Y'all take care now, ya hear! :+)

How's that physical social distancing working with Chinese airlines still flying into Canuckistan multiple times daily?


Isn't that currently more of a threat to China people than the other way round? Or so we are told.
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Re: How Are You Guys Holding Up?

Postby matsuki » Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:30 pm

Wage Slave wrote:Isn't that currently more of a threat to China people than the other way round? Or so we are told.


CCP is calling the new clusters "imported infections" despite 90% of them being Chinese Nationals that were returning from abroad :lol:

Meanwhile the US is still wasting time and focus arguing over Trump calling it "Chinese virus." If we can't be mature enough to realize the geographic origin isn't intended to be racist/blame, might as well lean in and go with "CCP virus."
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Re: How Are You Guys Holding Up?

Postby Russell » Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:35 pm

Hai Kurogane. Good to see you dropping by.

Stay safe, and keep us updated about the situation in Canukistan. Cheers!
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Re: How Are You Guys Holding Up?

Postby Wage Slave » Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:36 pm

matsuki wrote:
Wage Slave wrote:Isn't that currently more of a threat to China people than the other way round? Or so we are told.


CCP is calling the new clusters "imported infections" despite 90% of them being Chinese Nationals that were returning from abroad :lol:

Meanwhile the US is still wasting time and focus arguing over Trump calling it "Chinese virus." If we can't be mature enough to realize the geographic origin isn't intended to be racist/blame, might as well lean in and go with "CCP virus."


Why not go nuclear and call it the yellow socialist virus? If you are going to, yet again, play the dead rat card then this time it needs to be ramped up. There's a lot at stake and just because something has a correct and rational name that is no reason to use it.
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Re: How Are You Guys Holding Up?

Postby Russell » Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:37 pm

Wage Slave wrote:The emergency brings people together eh?

You mean we need more Corona-like crises to keep FG going?
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Re: How Are You Guys Holding Up?

Postby Wage Slave » Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:39 pm

Russell wrote:
Wage Slave wrote:The emergency brings people together eh?

You mean we need more Corona-like crises to keep FG going?

Well, it works but I don't think I would wish for more. Or any.
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Re: How Are You Guys Holding Up?

Postby wangta » Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:15 pm

Russell wrote:Wangta, my interest is mainly scientific. It appears that Japan's hospitals are not overwhelmed at all, so this is a prime consideration in judging that the corona virus is not as much of a problem as in the rest of the world. I have some relatives working in a big hospital in Hyogo, and they did not report anything out of the ordinary. Apart from the factors mentioned in the article, it could also be diet. In an earlier post in a different thread I mentioned that Japanese eat relatively much fish. The vitamin D it contains is very effective against catching colds. I noticed myself that I tend to catch less colds when in Japan than when I am in the Netherlands. That could be climate, but diet could also be a factor. So, what else is unique in the Japanese diet? One thing coming to mind is Natto. If this is a factor then I would expect that infection rates in Kansai would be higher than in Kanto, because Natto is less popular in Kansai. Just one hypothesis, but I am sure there may be other reasons why Japan is doing relatively well.

BTW, Germany is doing well too: their death rate is a mere 0.2%, which is very low for this virus. Why is that? They are doing much better than neighboring countries. Finally, I am not interested to bash country A or country B. Every country has its good points and its bad points. I learned that it is best for my mood to not compare countries, but rather accept them like they are. It is impossible to change them, because their ways are a result of a long history, so it is a waste of time to get angry about stuff.


Thanks for your posts Russell. I had the chance to chat to my cuz on the phone today, won`t be able to in the future cause he`s on an advisory panel to the gov.

He acknowledges advantages Japan has - less mobile population moving from country to country cause no multiple citizenships, easier to control because still homogenous society, old people are usually skinny and underweight, a big advantage in prolonging old age plus smaller portions of food and more of traditional food, obesity in western countries is a killer when combined with other conditions, and as I told him early measures like cancelling old people's groups activities happened, hand sanitizer was put into stores, public places etc.

However, he did say that Italy has a worse, even more contagious strain of the original that mutated. Probably Japan has experienced the less severe one and it's luck as much as any of the factors above. He said 'probably' as it all comes down to - data obtained from testing. As the Japanese authorities have managed to stymie testing to a huge extent in terms of the population, he said Japan is behind the eightball, not ahead as articles and individuals are glowingly reporting.

He can't stress enough the importance of hard data obtained from testing more and more people and then being able to make credible scientific observations and predict patterns of spread. His opinion is the Japan Gov is doing a 'Boris Johnson' before he did a turnaround - limiting testing in order to create herd immunity as there's no vaccine. Of course the Olympics has also influenced this strategy. He said it's incredibly risky of the J Gov to roll the dice instead of facing the realities that come with as much testing as possible.

He also made the point that Japan is much more secretive about medical matters including medical personnel being able to withhold information from patients about terminal conditions if their families don't want them to know. As this culture already exists it's not unlikely that old/older people with heart conditions and diabetes, kidney problems, cancer will be finished off by the new virus but their deaths will not be recorded as having any connection.

He agrees about Vitamin D and says it's a well-known anti-viral but anti-viral substances that pack a punch also are in tomatoes, avocadoes and other fruits/vegetables but just like natto consumption, they're not going to be a big influence under certain conditions. He hopes Japan will be the outlier that makes everyone optimistic but says it could also see an explosion of cases when other countries are starting to get it under control. In Australia the newest cases are being brought into the country by Aus citizens who travelled to North America and Europe, there's no reason why the Japanese who have done the same aren't going to bring it back.
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Re: How Are You Guys Holding Up?

Postby wangta » Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:18 pm

kurogane wrote:Hey Guys,
Long Time No Post (LTNP???), LOL BFF. I hope everybody is holding up, and self-medicating as directed by Those Who Know Better. I had to pull out of the southwest (near Da FUK), where I had been hiding away by the beach, and fly back home to help with my aged Mommy. The plane was ghostly empty, and the service was superb. The Cdn side was a bit like a zombie disaster scene, but there wasn't too much kerfuffle.

Things here are in lockdown mode, but, being Canada, all the rednecks and knobheads are still getting together in groups of 20-30 and partying at the beach, etc. So far, everything is safe and quiet enough, and I loaded up on beans and rice, so all the necessities are covered. Grocery stores are getting pretty bare, and bars and restaurants are closed by order. It looks like it might spike here over the next few weeks (see above reference to knobheads ignoring the advice of their betters), but for now things are cool enough. Boredom is an issue, but I am in the process of emptying out the family place we sold, so there is things to organise, and I might even catch up on some projects. No electrical work, of course, with apologies to Wage Slave. Okay, there it is. Y'all take care now, ya hear! :+)


Welcome Back - Some of us missed ya! Hope your Mum's doing alright and you"ve got a job to go to. My office is still open and our clients are well travelled as a rule. No remote work for me. I did have some luck as two clients I was responsible for managed to get out of a biz trip to Italy in Feb - they were so worried they begged their boss not to go and he said they could stay in J land.
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Re: How Are You Guys Holding Up?

Postby Scipio » Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:39 pm

I find this self isolating a bit of a breeze. I've been self isolating from the Japanese and their asinine conversations for the last 25 years. I don't think the Japanese are finding it so easy. Yesterday 50,000 Japanese queued in Sendai to get a glance of the Olympic flame and today Shinjuku Gyoen was choc a bloc with cherry blossom viewers. Sheer utter madness.
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Re: How Are You Guys Holding Up?

Postby Russell » Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:04 pm

wangta wrote:Thanks for your posts Russell. I had the chance to chat to my cuz on the phone today, won`t be able to in the future cause he`s on an advisory panel to the gov.

He acknowledges advantages Japan has - less mobile population moving from country to country cause no multiple citizenships, easier to control because still homogenous society, old people are usually skinny and underweight, a big advantage in prolonging old age plus smaller portions of food and more of traditional food, obesity in western countries is a killer when combined with other conditions, and as I told him early measures like cancelling old people's groups activities happened, hand sanitizer was put into stores, public places etc.

However, he did say that Italy has a worse, even more contagious strain of the original that mutated. Probably Japan has experienced the less severe one and it's luck as much as any of the factors above. He said 'probably' as it all comes down to - data obtained from testing. As the Japanese authorities have managed to stymie testing to a huge extent in terms of the population, he said Japan is behind the eightball, not ahead as articles and individuals are glowingly reporting.

He can't stress enough the importance of hard data obtained from testing more and more people and then being able to make credible scientific observations and predict patterns of spread. His opinion is the Japan Gov is doing a 'Boris Johnson' before he did a turnaround - limiting testing in order to create herd immunity as there's no vaccine. Of course the Olympics has also influenced this strategy. He said it's incredibly risky of the J Gov to roll the dice instead of facing the realities that come with as much testing as possible.

He also made the point that Japan is much more secretive about medical matters including medical personnel being able to withhold information from patients about terminal conditions if their families don't want them to know. As this culture already exists it's not unlikely that old/older people with heart conditions and diabetes, kidney problems, cancer will be finished off by the new virus but their deaths will not be recorded as having any connection.

He agrees about Vitamin D and says it's a well-known anti-viral but anti-viral substances that pack a punch also are in tomatoes, avocadoes and other fruits/vegetables but just like natto consumption, they're not going to be a big influence under certain conditions. He hopes Japan will be the outlier that makes everyone optimistic but says it could also see an explosion of cases when other countries are starting to get it under control. In Australia the newest cases are being brought into the country by Aus citizens who travelled to North America and Europe, there's no reason why the Japanese who have done the same aren't going to bring it back.

Thanks for your reply, Wangta. That is a very informative post.

Regarding citizens potentially bringing back the virus from Europe, here is an article about a teenage girl who came back from Spain, was tested at Narita and asked to wait for the results, but she ignored the request and continued to travel to her home in Okinawa. The government should have more power to constrain such individuals.

You mention herd immunity, and it is interesting how fast Boris Johnson changed tack after he was confronted with reality. There was an analysis in the Dutch press, in which it was calculated how many years it would take for herd immunity to be built while not overwhelming the healthcare system. The answer is 10 years. So, our only hope is medicines and vaccines. Fortunately, humans are smart enough to develop that in a much shorter time, but in the mean time there will be many people who will face an excruciating death.

Finally, here is an interesting article pointing out the lack of decision-making among Japanese leadership with regard to the Corona virus. This is one of the well-known weak points of Japan.

A Japan divided over COVID-19 control
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Re: How Are You Guys Holding Up?

Postby Russell » Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:12 pm

Scipio wrote:I find this self isolating a bit of a breeze. I've been self isolating from the Japanese and their asinine conversations for the last 25 years. I don't think the Japanese are finding it so easy. Yesterday 50,000 Japanese queued in Sendai to get a glance of the Olympic flame and today Shinjuku Gyoen was choc a bloc with cherry blossom viewers. Sheer utter madness.

Yep, it is crazy.

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Re: How Are You Guys Holding Up?

Postby Scipio » Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:39 pm

Regarding citizens potentially bringing back the virus from Europe, here is an article about a teenage girl who came back from Spain, was tested at Narita and asked to wait for the results, but she ignored the request and continued to travel to her home in Okinawa. The government should have more power to constrain such individuals.

Someone with better kanji reading skills than me can be more informative, but the article says that she wasn't tested at Narita, members of her family were. She was 'advised' not to continue her journey, until the results came through and adopting the usual arrogant attitude that prevail among Japanese to those that serve them, she chose to ignore the advice.
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Re: How Are You Guys Holding Up?

Postby Russell » Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:46 pm

Scipio wrote:Regarding citizens potentially bringing back the virus from Europe, here is an article about a teenage girl who came back from Spain, was tested at Narita and asked to wait for the results, but she ignored the request and continued to travel to her home in Okinawa. The government should have more power to constrain such individuals.

Someone with better kanji reading skills than me can be more informative, but the article says that she wasn't tested at Narita, members of her family were. She was 'advised' not to continue her journey, until the results came through and adopting the usual arrogant attitude that prevail among Japanese to those that serve them, she chose to ignore the advice.

I think the article says that she was tested together with her family members, and that the other four members of her family tested negative.
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