Shit! Coronavirus may also be transmitted via infected feces

[dimwit]

So the question would seem to be is it fortuitous the an outbreak of coronavirus occurred in a city where they just happened to be doing research on the subject? I think there is almost certainly a link but whether it was poor adherence to protocols or just some truck driver who decided to skim a little cash by diverting some of the bats to the wet market, given the opaqueness of Chinese research facilities I doubt we will ever find out the truth.

[matsuki]

[Wage Slave]

So does that move us forward a great deal? That lab in Wuhan might have been the place the virus transferred from bats to humans. Or, it might not have come from bats at all. Or it might have come from bats and passed through an intermediate species.

The reports of researchers being sprayed with infected bat blood and urine are interesting of course. I've seen that a few times. From where does that report originate? I don't think he said, so I suppose it is a Chinese internet rumour.

So, the explanation he is proposing is that the virus was always highly infectious to humans, living in bats and it needed no mutation or intermediary species. The bats and their viruses were gathered up taken to be studied in Wuhan up the road from the wet market. Catching them, transporting them and studying them was all fine until somebody dropped a glass phial containing bat blood (or urine) in an unknown insecure environment. One or more researchers were splashed and they picked up the virus. Then one of them (or more) went to the market to buy food and infected more people there. The virus spread further - first to Wuhan more generally and then all over the world.

It might be true but I didn't see any particular evidence for this chain of events. Just the fact a researcher can't be found which is not unheard of in China - unfortunately. Perhaps she caught the virus via an accident and died from it after shopping in Wuhan market but there really isn't any particular reason to believe that's what really happened to her. It could have been any number of things.

[matsuki]

Google how bats pee/defecate and you'll see how easy it is for someone catching them could be showered with it. Blood, who knows?

Either way, the real problem here is the whole cover up, run from responsibility culture that goes all the way to the top of the CCP. Taiwan saw indications of human-human transmission and locked shit down fast. Relatively speaking, things are pretty damn good there now...

[Wage Slave]

Yeah, I don't deny any of that. It's just I wonder which is a more likely source of this virus/recipe for disaster and hence what China needs to address. A research lab with international oversight compared to a free for all market where a wide variety of live animals (including bats I assume) are kept in close quarters for extended periods along with lots of people.

[wagyl]

Did you just slice a meaty morsel off a bat with Occam's razor?

It is worthwhile to note that the vastly more fatal Nipah Virus originated from fruit bats dropping half chewed bits of mango into a pig pen under the tree. It doesn't have to involve practices culturally distasteful to the West.

[Wage Slave]

An interesting point. However, there is a lot more than western culture's distaste at stake here. It is not culture that mandates the avoidance of keeping different species of animals in close quarters for food production - It is bio safety. The same applies to vaccinations, minimum hygiene standards and the health monitoring and treatment of animals. Capturing wild animals and delivering them to crowded markets inevitably compromises bio safety. That is not a cultural judgement about the rights of animals.

[jingai]

It's not just about markets, either. Human encroachment upon the habitat of wild animals is an even larger factor which puts us in contact with new diseases. Much development in places like Asia is being done due to demand for food and other products from Europe and the US and facilitated by international corporations, so we are implicated as well.

[Habitat loss and the bat/pig was also part of the origin story of the movie Contagion]

[Mike Oxlong]

Or it could be theft of virus from US/Canadian labs shipped off to Chinese labs, and those labs using lower levels of bio-safety protocols. Very easy for a virus to leak out of level 2 versus level 4. Academic espionage laid bare.

[Wage Slave]

Why would they need to steal the virus from an American or Canadian lab? Don't they have the world's natural reservoir of corona viruses, including the SARS type, down south in those caves in Yunan? And a long history of going down there, collecting bats, bringing them home and studying the viruses?

And anyway isn't the Wuhan lab supposed to be level 4? And BTW video guy, approx 20 kilometres from the market rather than 380 metres.

[matsuki]

It doesn't have to involve practices culturally distasteful to the West.

[Wage Slave]

93234353_10158165051450351_6824537711462842368_n - Copy.jpg

[Mike Oxlong]

Why would they need to steal the virus from an American or Canadian lab? Don't they have the world's natural reservoir of corona viruses, including the SARS type, down south in those caves in Yunan? And a long history of going down there, collecting bats, bringing them home and studying the viruses?

And anyway isn't the Wuhan lab supposed to be level 4? And BTW video guy, approx 20 kilometres from the market rather than 380 metres.

There are two labs. The Wuhan Center for Disease Control is 280 metres from the wet market, and The Wuhan Institute of Virology is 12 kilometres from the market. The bats were housed at the WCDC, while the level 4 facility is at the WIV.

[Wage Slave]

Why would they need to steal the virus from an American or Canadian lab? Don't they have the world's natural reservoir of corona viruses, including the SARS type, down south in those caves in Yunan? And a long history of going down there, collecting bats, bringing them home and studying the viruses?

And anyway isn't the Wuhan lab supposed to be level 4? And BTW video guy, approx 20 kilometres from the market rather than 380 metres.

There are two labs. The Wuhan Center for Disease Control is 280 metres from the wet market, and The Wuhan Institute of Virology is 12 kilometres from the market. The bats were housed at the WCDC, while the level 4 facility is at the WIV.

\

12 miles rather than kilometres I think I saw. Although I see some other sources say 20 miles. Anyway, why would they have to raid a facility in the USA or Canada to get their hands on this virus when south China has always been the source of corona SARS virus? And if they did raid a lab in the US or Canada for the virus, why would they then keep it in the less secure facility when they have a L4 facility a short distance away?

[Russell]

93234353_10158165051450351_6824537711462842368_n - Copy.jpg

Wage Slave, you kind of assume that all scientists underwrite the version that the Chinese government is trying to sell us, isn't it?

[Russell]

I do not have much time at the moment, but let me pose some pertinent questions:

1. If the corona virus is from a bat 1000 km away from Wuhan, why did it emerge in Wuhan and not among the local population near the cave where that bat was residing? One would think that they wouldn't go all the way to transport bats to Wuhan just to eat them? I also would expect that the local population would first be infected by the corona virus, rather than the population of Wuhan.
2. Why would one discount the possibility that a scientist became infected in a cave while collecting bats? The scientists wore protective clothing, but these caves are far from hygienic. Think about this, ages of bat shit are on the floor of those caves, so it is easy to stick that to one's boots/clothes or whatever. Even worse, if it is dried, it may get dusted up in the air, ready to be breathed in.
3. Where is the missing scientist? It is a bit strange that she is completely whitewashed from this institute's web page. Please, present her to the world. Sorry, an urn with ashes won't do.
4. How were these bats housed in this research institute? I do not know in which of the two institutes they were housed, but I very much want to know how they were housed. Apparently they had 1500 different samples or bats from all over China. If they were in cages in the same space, they could carry over viruses to each other quite easy, methinks. That also could allow some viruses to recombine in the more nasty virus that we have now.
5. Apparently there was research on bat to human transmission of corona viruses, which makes sense. They seem to have investigated the population near caves on the presence of viruses that were also present in bats in local caves. Was there also research into human to human transmission of corona-like viruses prior to the outbreak of this pandemic? And if so, what character did it have? Was this voluntarily? That seems like a question that would only be posed by a "conspiracy theorist", but in the light of allegations by a UN tribunal that China is harvesting organs from prisoners (including political prisoners), it is maybe a just question to ask.

[matsuki]

After what China just did with this Corona virus and the WHO, nice to see they just gained a seat on the UN human rights council. Human organ harvesting, concentration camps, forced abortions, and most recently, making China's gaijin truly the most fucked. Of course, we can't say anything without being labelled racists. Meanwhile in China...

[Mike Oxlong]

Why would they need to steal the virus from an American or Canadian lab? Don't they have the world's natural reservoir of corona viruses, including the SARS type, down south in those caves in Yunan? And a long history of going down there, collecting bats, bringing them home and studying the viruses?

And anyway isn't the Wuhan lab supposed to be level 4? And BTW video guy, approx 20 kilometres from the market rather than 380 metres.

There are two labs. The Wuhan Center for Disease Control is 280 metres from the wet market, and The Wuhan Institute of Virology is 12 kilometres from the market. The bats were housed at the WCDC, while the level 4 facility is at the WIV.

\

12 miles rather than kilometres I think I saw. Although I see some other sources say 20 miles. Anyway, why would they have to raid a facility in the USA or Canada to get their hands on this virus when south China has always been the source of corona SARS virus? And if they did raid a lab in the US or Canada for the virus, why would they then keep it in the less secure facility when they have a L4 facility a short distance away?

There was a case last year where a couple of Chinese scientists working at Canada's National Microbiology Lab were dismissed and investigated by the RCMP for improper transfer of intellectual property. It was speculated that they had sent coronavirus samples to China. We don't know what they were stealing from the news reports. Data, material, who knows what.

Yes, media sources seem to disagree about the distance, though the most commonly reported distance is 12 km.

Why would the Chinese cut corners? OK Dude...
A research doc at a lab I used to work at buried radioactive isotopes out in a field rather than go through the complicated procedures required officially.

[Wage Slave]

93234353_10158165051450351_6824537711462842368_n - Copy.jpg

Wage Slave, you kind of assume that all scientists underwrite the version that the Chinese government is trying to sell us, isn't it?

I don't think so. I just don't understand why they would nick a virus from the US or Canada when they have the source so much closer and have been studying it.

[Mike Oxlong]

93234353_10158165051450351_6824537711462842368_n - Copy.jpg

Wage Slave, you kind of assume that all scientists underwrite the version that the Chinese government is trying to sell us, isn't it?

I don't think so. I just don't understand why they would nick a virus from the US or Canada when they have the source so much closer and have been studying it.

I'm not denying you are asking a good question. It is even possible I have the directionality wrong.

https://news.yahoo.com/suspected-sars-v ... 26820.html

[yanpa]

OTOH: https://www.snopes.com/news/2020/04/01/ ... bioweapon/

[Wage Slave]

Why would they need to steal the virus from an American or Canadian lab? Don't they have the world's natural reservoir of corona viruses, including the SARS type, down south in those caves in Yunan? And a long history of going down there, collecting bats, bringing them home and studying the viruses?

And anyway isn't the Wuhan lab supposed to be level 4? And BTW video guy, approx 20 kilometres from the market rather than 380 metres.

There are two labs. The Wuhan Center for Disease Control is 280 metres from the wet market, and The Wuhan Institute of Virology is 12 kilometres from the market. The bats were housed at the WCDC, while the level 4 facility is at the WIV.

\

12 miles rather than kilometres I think I saw. Although I see some other sources say 20 miles. Anyway, why would they have to raid a facility in the USA or Canada to get their hands on this virus when south China has always been the source of corona SARS virus? And if they did raid a lab in the US or Canada for the virus, why would they then keep it in the less secure facility when they have a L4 facility a short distance away?

There was a case last year where a couple of Chinese scientists working at Canada's National Microbiology Lab were dismissed and investigated by the RCMP for improper transfer of intellectual property. It was speculated that they had sent coronavirus samples to China. We don't know what they were stealing from the news reports. Data, material, who knows what.

Yes, media sources seem to disagree about the distance, though the most commonly reported distance is 12 km.

Why would the Chinese cut corners? OK Dude...
A research doc at a lab I used to work at buried radioactive isotopes out in a field rather than go through the complicated procedures required officially.

Yeah OK. Just doesn't seem like there is any profit in cutting that corner when we know that China is and has been the source of SARS Corona viruses. But OK, perhaps they stole it from a lab in the US or Canada, took it to one of their less secure facilities and due to an accident or carelessness it got out into the local population. It just doesn't seem the most likely explanation is all.

[yanpa]

Leaked footage from the 1970s:

[Mike Oxlong]

OMG. Snopes! Still trying to deplatform The Babylon Bee.

[Russell]

OTOH: https://www.snopes.com/news/2020/04/01/ ... bioweapon/

Hmm, Snopes is not the most reliable source, but I agree that the SARS-CoV-2 is unlikely to be engineered.

The assertion that the theory that the virus escaped from the lab is solely based on the proximity of the lab to the food market is shaky, in my opinion. There is the question from what cave this virus originated, and if it was far away, how it was able to travel all the way to Wuhan. As I said before, it is unlikely that they transport a bat over 1000 km to a food market when there are bats available from caves more nearby. Apart from that, do they really eat bats in China? There is that video of that girl eating bat soup, but a Chinese colleague told me never to have heard of bats being eaten in China, so it is possible that this video is a hoax.

[Wage Slave]

OTOH: https://www.snopes.com/news/2020/04/01/ ... bioweapon/

Nicely done. I like the conclusion:

In a commentary piece about this study, National Institutes of Health Director Francis Collins wrote “this study leaves little room to refute a natural origin for COVID-19.” Though researchers do not yet have a clear idea of the exact origin or evolutionary history of SARS-CoV-2, the authors of the Nature Medicine paper provide two potential scenarios, described here by Collins:

In the first scenario, as the new coronavirus evolved in its natural hosts, possibly bats or pangolins, its spike proteins mutated to bind to molecules similar in structure to the human ACE2 protein, thereby enabling it to infect human cells. This scenario seems to fit other recent outbreaks of coronavirus-caused disease in humans, such as SARS, which arose from cat-like civets; and Middle East respiratory syndrome (MERS), which arose from camels.

The second scenario is that the new coronavirus crossed from animals into humans before it became capable of causing human disease. Then, as a result of gradual evolutionary changes over years or perhaps decades, the virus eventually gained the ability to spread from human-to-human and cause serious, often life-threatening disease.

Researchers do not yet know enough about the new coronavirus to determine which of those two scenarios is more likely, but scientists do know enough to conclude it to be extremely unlikely to have been engineered in a lab for any purpose, including bioweaponry.

Those possibilities would seem to explain many of the questions Russell posed. What is unlikely according to a lot of scientists is that it was an a virus created in a lab rather than by nature. What we really don't know is if the Wuhan market gave nature a helping hand and opportunity via captive bats, pangolins or A N Other animal(s). Or whether someone researching the bats caught it from them, passed it on to people in Wuhan and then nature went to work in human hosts to eventually produce a deadly variant mutation in Wuhan.

[Wage Slave]

OTOH: https://www.snopes.com/news/2020/04/01/ ... bioweapon/

Hmm, Snopes is not the most reliable source, but I agree that the SARS-CoV-2 is unlikely to be engineered.

The assertion that the theory that the virus escaped from the lab is solely based on the proximity of the lab to the food market is shaky, in my opinion. There is the question from what cave this virus originated, and if it was far away, how it was able to travel all the way to Wuhan. As I said before, it is unlikely that they transport a bat over 1000 km to a food market when there are bats available from caves more nearby. Apart from that, do they really eat bats in China? There is that video of that girl eating bat soup, but a Chinese colleague told me never to have heard of bats being eaten in China, so it is possible that this video is a hoax.

Agreed, which is why intermediate animals are a possibility. Perhaps it would be worth transporting pangolins from down south? Or perhaps they are farmed down south? Wuhan is a pretty big city so would be a significant market for an exotic animal farmer or hunter.

[Mike Oxlong]

Study: Coronavirus is a Bioweapon with 'gain-of-function property for efficient spreading'

[matsuki]

Apart from that, do they really eat bats in China? There is that video of that girl eating bat soup, but a Chinese colleague told me never to have heard of bats being eaten in China, so it is possible that this video is a hoax.

Yes, they do and that isn't in dispute. Whether direct from bat to human transmission in possible, that's another story. Not wanting to finger wag about what types of animals should and shouldn't be eaten but even in China they should know these things are filled with diseases so eating wild ones in a soup is (put mildly) not a good idea. Then again, the CCP is pushing bear bile as a cure for this virus so...

[dimwit]

Study: Coronavirus is a Bioweapon with 'gain-of-function property for efficient spreading'

Ok I had to look up the European Union Times to see what it was about. Conspiracy websites not exactly being my forte.

The questions I would like to know are these:

1) In the original outbreak, there are some people who were not associated with the wet market. Is the RNA profile of the coronavirus of these people the same as the profile for the people who contracted the disease from the market? If not it would indicate that the market is a secondary source.

2) What exactly is the origin of the bats that are associated with the outbreak? Are they local or are they from a distant area? How were the bats acquired?

3) What precisely were the two labs studying and did/do they have bats matching the RNA profile of the virus?

Do I expect answers will be forthcoming. Nope, because Winny the f------ Pooh.