Toyota is making 'real food' while Tesla offers a 'recipe'

[Russell]

The CVT takes a bit of getting used to for most people - there's that slight rubber banding feel to it at first. Once you have got used to it and predict it, most people really like it. That includes me, especially on long trips and hill climbs. It super convenient and smooth - appropriate power whenever you want it. The only thing you can't do is spin the wheels drag racing from the lights with the guy in the Toyota - the power feeds in smoothly. I'm sure you won't miss that too much.

I didn't need any getting used to the CVT. I loved it from the start.

Last week I rented a Mazda Demio for my commute, and it had a CVT too. Very nice, but only afterwards I found out what that M on the handle for the CVT stands for. Turns out when you put it in M, it can simulate manual shift. I would have liked trying that, being forced to drive automatic in Japan because of Wifey.

That said, shifting manual with a CVT is kind of useless, because it seems that CVTs are quite energy-efficient, so probably there would not be any improvement on that front. And it doesn't have a clutch pedal, so it is not the full experience.

Funny what nostalgia can do to people. When renting a car in Europe I always take manual shift.

[Wage Slave]

Apparently Hondas on sale in Europe have CVT and paddle shifters on the steering wheel which simulate gears. I suppose that may be fun but these days I am just happy to put my foot down and go faster rather than go through gears. There is always the sport mode if you feel the need for snappier acceleration - I literally never use it though.

Bluetooth is great and having audio system controls on the steering wheel is great. The sound quality is way better than before and road noise a lot more attenuated - that for me is one of the biggest benefits even if it results in a heavier car and so less acceleration. Budget cars don't get big engines to compensate for the extra weight.

Honda engines are great. The one in my new car is not as powerful and smooth as the old car but it uses about 15% less fuel and to achieve that switches between Atkinson cycle at low revs to recycle exhaust gas and normal operation at higher revs. It is still very smooth except when pushed hard but the old engine was really outstanding - I still miss it. You probably have the have the same type of engine? Earth Dreams they call them.

[matsuki]

CVT's, Idle stop, turbos, hybrids, etc. It's all neat and useful tech but I think we're at the point where all these band-aid fixes to combustion engines are adding far more complexity (potential failure points) than is needed and it no longer makes financial sense to pick up something new when it loses sooo much value off the lot and most of it's value years from now when you eventually replace it.

Don't get me wrong, I love the sound of a turbo spooling up and how it feels boosting you to the next gear. I miss the rumble of previous muscle cars I owned...I'll probably buy a muscle car or other sportscar to maintain for nostalgia (though the prices on those seem to be rising) but for daily driving, comfort/convenience are king. No engine/trans maintenance? No trips to the gas station or paying the gas prices here? Instant torque, autopilot, 360° drive recording, and software upgrades? I still don't understand how people aren't sold on at least the notion that we're all going electric.

[Russell]

CVT's, Idle stop, turbos, hybrids, etc. It's all neat and useful tech but I think we're at the point where all these band-aid fixes to combustion engines are adding far more complexity (potential failure points) than is needed and it no longer makes financial sense to pick up something new when it loses sooo much value off the lot and most of it's value years from now when you eventually replace it.

Don't get me wrong, I love the sound of a turbo spooling up and how it feels boosting you to the next gear. I miss the rumble of previous muscle cars I owned...I'll probably buy a muscle car or other sportscar to maintain for nostalgia (though the prices on those seem to be rising) but for daily driving, comfort/convenience are king. No engine/trans maintenance? No trips to the gas station or paying the gas prices here? Instant torque, autopilot, 360° drive recording, and software upgrades? I still don't understand how people aren't sold on at least the notion that we're all going electric.

That's why I bought a second-hand gasoline. Second-hand of 4 years old. Compared to the 22-year old car I had that feels like it is a new car. I am amazed how much smoother this new thing drives than the old one.

I would definitely go for an electric vehicle, if one were available that would satisfy my specs. But alas, we have to wait.

[Russell]

As an aside, Elon Musk is now richer than Jeff Bezos.

Tells me that Tesla's stock is overvalued.

[Coligny]

When people realize that electricity have to come from somewhere...

At least E-Power Nissans have range extenders built into the core design.

Tried to keep up with an E-Power Note at the redlight ? That thing jumped from being the slowest car for retiree to some housewife’s Nurburgring Rocket.

[Russell]

When people realize that electricity have to come from somewhere...

At least E-Power Nissans have range extenders built into the core design.

Tried to keep up with an E-Power Note at the redlight ? That thing jumped from being the slowest car for retiree to some housewife’s Nurburgring Rocket.

It's no secret that electric motors have more torque than gasoline engines.

But this would not my motivation to buy an electric car.

[Grumpy Gramps]

Torque they have more, but out of personal interest: How is it with load? Say pulling a heavy trailer up a mountain? Can an electric do it as easily as a diesel and will the increase in consumption be higher or lower compared to diesel/gas?

[Russell]

Torque they have more, but out of personal interest: How is it with load? Say pulling a heavy trailer up a mountain? Can an electric do it as easily as a diesel and will the increase in consumption be higher or lower compared to diesel/gas?

From what I have heard, electric is less suitable for trailers, because they would need a shitload of batteries, making them too heavy. That may change if battery technology advances.

Also, it appears that AC motors are more suitable for pulling heavy loads than brushless DC motors, so once there are electric trailers, they will likely have AC motors.

[matsuki]

That's why I bought a second-hand gasoline. Second-hand of 4 years old. Compared to the 22-year old car I had that feels like it is a new car. I am amazed how much smoother this new thing drives than the old one.

I would definitely go for an electric vehicle, if one were available that would satisfy my specs. But alas, we have to wait.

Which is totally reasonable. No regrets on my land cruiser at all. (other than the cost to fill up)

When people realize that electricity have to come from somewhere...

That's the other part of the equation....need more solar/storage.

Torque they have more, but out of personal interest: How is it with load? Say pulling a heavy trailer up a mountain? Can an electric do it as easily as a diesel and will the increase in consumption be higher or lower compared to diesel/gas?

From what I have heard, electric is less suitable for trailers, because they would need a shitload of batteries, making them too heavy. That may change if battery technology advances.

Also, it appears that AC motors are more suitable for pulling heavy loads than brushless DC motors, so once there are electric trailers, they will likely have AC motors.

Definitely need more battery capacity for towing but there are already a few trailers in development that come with onboard battery capacity and solar roofs to keep it topped up. If what your towing adds to your battery capacity, it makes up for the loss....but I ordered the largest battery capacity available regardless.

As an aside, Elon Musk is now richer than Jeff Bezos.

Tells me that Tesla's stock is overvalued.

If it keeps up at this pace, I'll add another digit to my net worth by June.

[Russell]

That's why I bought a second-hand gasoline. Second-hand of 4 years old. Compared to the 22-year old car I had that feels like it is a new car. I am amazed how much smoother this new thing drives than the old one.

I would definitely go for an electric vehicle, if one were available that would satisfy my specs. But alas, we have to wait.

Which is totally reasonable. No regrets on my land cruiser at all. (other than the cost to fill up)

When people realize that electricity have to come from somewhere...

That's the other part of the equation....need more solar/storage.

Torque they have more, but out of personal interest: How is it with load? Say pulling a heavy trailer up a mountain? Can an electric do it as easily as a diesel and will the increase in consumption be higher or lower compared to diesel/gas?

From what I have heard, electric is less suitable for trailers, because they would need a shitload of batteries, making them too heavy. That may change if battery technology advances.

Also, it appears that AC motors are more suitable for pulling heavy loads than brushless DC motors, so once there are electric trailers, they will likely have AC motors.

Definitely need more battery capacity for towing but there are already a few trailers in development that come with onboard battery capacity and solar roofs to keep it topped up. If what your towing adds to your battery capacity, it makes up for the loss....but I ordered the largest battery capacity available regardless.

As an aside, Elon Musk is now richer than Jeff Bezos.

Tells me that Tesla's stock is overvalued.

If it keeps up at this pace, I'll add another digit to my net worth by June.

I wish you the best of course, but I would seriously consider whether these stock prices are still realistic.

[matsuki]

I wish you the best of course, but I would seriously consider whether these stock prices are still realistic.

The price is starting to project further out into the future as people are forced to deal with the excellent execution of the company. (and the related companies) That increase in confidence is well place IMO...and the road map has been laid out. Then there is the all EV by 203? sentiment by many countries/states/etc/. The latest claim is that proper level 5 autonomy is coming this year....robotaxis would be right after. That alone would bolster a trillion plus valuation. Then you consider the largest potential with grid storage (energy companies are the largest out there) No doubt the current valuation is high but the S&P inclusion and company held shares won't be selling anytime soon so even when there are corrections, they aren't likely to be as wild as the previous corrections.

[Grumpy Gramps]

From what I have heard, electric is less suitable for trailers, because they would need a shitload of batteries, making them too heavy. That may change if battery technology advances.

Also, it appears that AC motors are more suitable for pulling heavy loads than brushless DC motors, so once there are electric trailers, they will likely have AC motors.

Very interewsting, thank you. Your answer implies that trailers will need their own motors and battery packs, which will make them crazy expensive and high maintenance compared to today's ones.

[Russell]

From what I have heard, electric is less suitable for trailers, because they would need a shitload of batteries, making them too heavy. That may change if battery technology advances.

Also, it appears that AC motors are more suitable for pulling heavy loads than brushless DC motors, so once there are electric trailers, they will likely have AC motors.

Very interewsting, thank you. Your answer implies that trailers will need their own motors and battery packs, which will make them crazy expensive and high maintenance compared to today's ones.

They will certainly need heavier motors and bigger battery packs than in passenger cars.

But in passenger cars both AC motors (e.g. Tesla) and brushless DC motors (e.g. Nissan) have been used. The problem with DC motors seems to be that they do not scale up well, so they are not suitable for trucks.

[Grumpy Gramps]

Interesting. Sent me on a little trip to find out, what types of electric motors are used in diesel-electric ships. Looks like even there, where there is a long time of experience, there is no clear answer.

[matsuki]

From what I have heard, electric is less suitable for trailers, because they would need a shitload of batteries, making them too heavy. That may change if battery technology advances.

Also, it appears that AC motors are more suitable for pulling heavy loads than brushless DC motors, so once there are electric trailers, they will likely have AC motors.

Very interewsting, thank you. Your answer implies that trailers will need their own motors and battery packs, which will make them crazy expensive and high maintenance compared to today's ones.

I can see people adding on battery storage (Tesla powerwall and the like) and solar to charge....onto existing trailers. Additional costs but also additional utility if the trailer can also run off the battery storage. You could also park you EV next to it at home to take advantage of keeping it topped up on the reg....no elec bill for your EV would be nice. No doubt people smarter than me will make this type of stuff happen soon.

Should also mention Airstream is already looking into adding battery storage and drive motors to their trailers....and lightening them to reduce the power needed to pull them. Won't be cheap but could make things really interesting.

[Grumpy Gramps]

...unless legislation hampers it all. Look at Florida. You can have solar on your roof, but if the grid goes down for a hurricane or whatever, you are not allowed to use the electricity you produce, so you'll be out of leccy like everyone else until the powers that be turn you back on. The greedy ones will not let you have free electricity; they want their cut.

[Russell]

...unless legislation hampers it all. Look at Florida. You can have solar on your roof, but if the grid goes down for a hurricane or whatever, you are not allowed to use the electricity you produce, so you'll be out of leccy like everyone else until the powers that be turn you back on. The greedy ones will not let you have free electricity; they want their cut.

So much for American-style capitalism (which is more a form of corporate communism).

[Coligny]

/. The latest claim is that proper level 5 autonomy is coming this year....robotaxis would be right after. That alone would bolster a trillion plus valuation. .

Current road markings are designed to be read and interpreted by humans Mk1 eyeballs.
Instead of slightly adapting/incorporating computer readable marking onto the roads we are teaching cars to be as stupid as an asian female driver behind the wheel...
And somehow we hope to get somewhere without any paradigm shift...
Cherry on top... the same issues have been solved for airplanes automatic landing systems aeons ago...

[matsuki]

...unless legislation hampers it all. Look at Florida. You can have solar on your roof, but if the grid goes down for a hurricane or whatever, you are not allowed to use the electricity you produce, so you'll be out of leccy like everyone else until the powers that be turn you back on. The greedy ones will not let you have free electricity; they want their cut.

So much for American-style capitalism (which is more a form of corporate communism).

Grumpy - You need a stand alone inverter and battery storage, to do that....and it works!

From Florida since you used that example: https://www.floridapowerservices.com/wh ... ne-season/

Russell - Serious question, how long did you live in the US and where? I just want to understand where you're coming from with that take. Personally, I'm seriously upset with the current situation in CA as there is soo much money being thrown at legit causes...but what happens is "consultants" and contractors end up with the majority of it in their pockets and the little that remains and actually gets used for the cause does almost nothing to resolve the issue it was intended to. The lack of oversight is sickening and there is a reckoning coming with both the governor and the budget as the situation has grown so out of control, many with real money are moving out of state to avoid the highest taxation in the US, growing homeless problems, and a one-party government that just lost it's biggest scapegoat ever. (though blaming Trump for all the local issues never made sense in the first place)

/. The latest claim is that proper level 5 autonomy is coming this year....robotaxis would be right after. That alone would bolster a trillion plus valuation. .

Current road markings are designed to be read and interpreted by humans Mk1 eyeballs.
Instead of slightly adapting/incorporating computer readable marking onto the roads we are teaching cars to be as stupid as an asian female driver behind the wheel...
And somehow we hope to get somewhere without any paradigm shift...
Cherry on top... the same issues have been solved for airplanes automatic landing systems aeons ago...

I think the bigger issue is marking maintenance....even in glorious nippon there are some roads and places the markings are gone and in a dangerous way.

This does bring up the main difference in Tesla autonomy vs the others. Tesla is using ever improving software and cameras to interpret the road, conditions, etc. on the fly in a general solution that theoretically can adapt to anywhere. On the highways, it's pretty much solved. Looong trips are already being made without any intervention. That alone is huuge. Imagine sleeping/eating/working on a 2hr+ trip. Then you have most everyone else is using lidar (cause adding half a meter on top of the vehicle and several thousand to the price makes sense?) and pre mapped solutions. You have others already claiming victory using these methods in caged off areas...which is fine for local use though it's not very cost effective. Meanwhile Tesla has the thickest pipeline of real world data flowing in and it's only growing. The AI-training supercomputer (Skynet?! ) will be operational this year. Most people are not aware how fast results will come with that.

[matsuki]

Tesla-Elon-Musk-Toyota-Akio-Toyoda-e1604662095145[1].jpg

Toyoda-san has been losing his shit ever since Tesla stole his thunder...more than a few public tantrums....supposed leak now says some sort of partnership is happening:

“It is reported that Tesla and Toyota have reviewed the partnership since last year and are approaching the final stage. According to an official from the Japanese automobile industry on the 28th , Tesla and Toyota are considering jointly developing a small electric SUV platform (the car’s basic skeleton). The partnership review has been conducted since last year. Toyota provides the vehicle platform to Tesla, and instead, Tesla provides some of the electronic control platform and software technology onboard its vehicle to Toyota.”

https://electrek.co/2021/03/30/tesla-to ... ak-report/

As resident Tesla fanboy, my take is if there is anything legit behind the leak, it's likely Toyota licensing Tesla software for their new EV. Free money for Tesla as Toyota tries to play catch up. Hardware-wise, hard to say as Tesla is battery supply constrained and not hurting for orders. Exciting times.