Question about studying kanji

[Mr X]

Sorry if this is a lame post, but I was wondering if anyone could recommend a good pace I should set for myself for learning kanji. I want to learn to read a newspaper SOMETIME in the next 10 years, hopefully sooner, but I don't want to set an unrealistic goal and then burn out.

I've lived in and out of the Tokyo area for the last several years (been here permanently for a little over 2 years now) but I've been slackin with the writting studies and it shows (my conversational skill is slightly better, working with all Japanese, but nothing to write home about either).

I know kana fairly well, and some basic kanji like numbers and some peoples' names, but that's about it.

Recommendations? 20 kanji per week? 40? More? Less? Anyone who's done this successfully (or, even better, people who are still workin on it like me)?

Hope I wrote this in the right place. Thanks in advance.

[AssKissinger]

Steve has posted some great links for J-study over the net.Hit It Girls Also, you can type Charles Kelly into the FG search and you'll see a few good threads.


Hit It Girls

The above link really deserves exploration. There's tons of free stuff to study from basic to well, over my level.

[kamome]

I'm not sure if there is a definite pace you need to set for yourself. However, to read a Japanese newspaper, I've heard you need to be able to read at least 2,000 kanji. That means if you memorized 38 kanji per week, you could learn all 2000 individual kanji in exactly a year. That's 5 or 6 kanji per day.

However, there are a couple of problems. First, kanji retention is a real problem. You need to review them repeatedly to really "know" the kanji. Second, individual kanji study is only half the battle. Each kanji has multiple readings, so knowing how to read individual kanji does not prepare you to read them in combination with other kanji.

Thus, I'd say that a really serious student of written Japanese who starts from zero could probably learn them well enough to read a newspaper in two years--assuming you study nothing else and you stay dedicated to it.

But even that is unrealistic. The Japanese themselves spend all of grade school and middle school learning written Japanese. That's about 9 years. By high school, they can read almost anything, although they continue on with classical Japanese and more difficult technical Japanese (an additional three years).

For me, I've resigned myself to the fact that learning Japanese is a lifelong endeavor. You should do that too, if only to mitigate the frustration of learning the language.

[Mr X]

Awsome link, ak!

Kamome, I totally see what you're saying, and the "lifelong" thing is absolutely true.

I guess I'm just trying to think of realistic goals to set (for example, I hope to pass the first grade by next month sometime :P ). It really is never ending though, ain't it? It makes me chuckle when even my Japanese friends can't figure out which kanji is which sometimes, or what stroke order is the correct one.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm not frustrated. It's fun for me to pick up some Japanese here and there, more like a hobby really, and I don't ever really NEED it (my job doesn't require it anyway)...but I also think that I'll never be a decent conversationalist at all until I can pick up a regular old book and just READ the thing.

[Ptyx]

In my university they were planning on 2000 kanjis in 4 years. But it's 4 years of full time study.
In 2 years we were supposed to be able to read manga, and simple books.

[mr. sparkle]

Hit It Girls

The above link really deserves exploration. There's tons of free stuff to study from basic to well, over my level.

That was fun. I got a 75! I knew about 100 kanji about 8 years ago. I can get back there.

The game aspect is fun.

[Andocrates]

[gekisou]

Hi!

I went to that flash game but couldn't see the Japanese Charcters.
Still got 50% by counting the squares. lol.
Anyway can anyone help me as I think it would be good to brush up on my japanese.

Cheers

[kamome]

People always quote the figure 2000, but that's a little unrealistic. with 500 kanji (the most common 500) you can read 75% of written Japanese. I believe with the 1000 most used Kanji you can read 90+ % of written Japanese.

I doubt that you can read a Japanese newspaper with only 1000 kanji. You can get the gist of it, but you won't have full comprehension. Adding to the frustration, a Japanese newspaper usually uses abbreviated forms of words, so you might only get 2 of the 4 kanji that usually comprise a word (I'm speaking in terms of headlines though). Also, Japanese reporters coin new phrases all the time, which means you will encounter words that don't have standard definitions. With the number of kanji, the use of unconventional words, and the abbreviations, I am truly amazed by those few gaijin who can actually read a newspaper AND comprehend the entire article without resorting to a dictionary.

[AssKissinger]

Awsome link, ak!

Thank Steve Bildermann.