Look for the reaction to this picture

[cstaylor]

"What's good for the goose is good for the gander"

WWII wartime propaganda, courtesy of "War Without Mercy"

[Mr. BIG]

They were wearing blond wigs (not at all offensive) and fake big noses (really, super-offensive)!

Heavens no!? Fake-big-noses!@#$% The nerve of those people....
For some reason I'm recalling Mike Meyers performing as a Japanese guy on Saturday Night Live a coupla years ago....he slicked his hair down the middle, wore a suit that was far too small and humongous glasses, and spoke in very accurate, but broken katakana-english. I'm not advocating racism, but who the hell cares if a Japanese program decides to portray Americans as having big noses?? I have a pretty big nose, and actually I've heard that a large nose is considered a sign of affluence in Japon.

[hanabi]

Look what you made me do. You made me go and register on this gaikokujin women-hating forum.

Okay, first of all, that "good for the goose" crap just doesn't fly right now considering that the poster is war propaganda and was created during a time of severe tension between the two countries. I'm most certainly not saying that it is "more right" to make fun of an ethnicity when you don't like certain politics. (Case in point, I'm really offended by all the anti-Middle Easterners jokes that have been floating around lately.) But I think that, just because some North Americans are stupid enough to make fun of Japanese doesn't make it right for it to occur the other way around. "Two wrongs" and all that.

I'm not advocating racism, but who the hell cares if a Japanese program decides to portray Americans as having big noses?? I have a pretty big nose, and actually I've heard that a large nose is considered a sign of affluence in Japon.

You so don't get it, guy-who-lives-in-Chicago. You are not included in this large nose=affluence deal because you are not Japanese. You are "other." And "others" are freaks. Your big nose is a source of comedy and your skin is a constant reminder that you do not belong. It's quaint and amusing when you try to speak Japanese, but it is much more preferable if you just spoke English and didn't try to fit in. Many Japanese will either worship you or fear you. But only very few will see you as an actual person.

This is what it meant to me to see someone make fun of ethnic traits. And maybe I am being too sensitive, but some things can just wear on you after a while.

[hanabi]

Hee! It's lovely.

[cstaylor]

Okay, first of all, that "good for the goose" crap just doesn't fly right now considering that the poster is war propaganda and was created during a time of severe tension between the two countries

Sorry, I should have put some more text in there. What I meant from that post was: "show this to a Japanese. Ask them for their reaction". If they get offended, just nod and say, "now you know how I feel".

[cstaylor]

Cool... can I be Spanky?

[kamome]

CS, you ARE Spanky.

[hanabi]

Aw, crap. That "guest" is me. I should've logged in first. Sorry. Damn newbies.

[GomiGirl]

but that there tends to be a lot of bashing of gaikokujin women.

What is wrong with us white chicks? Do you know how difficult is it for a cute young thang like me to get a date on a saturday night in Tokyo???

GomiGirl

[kamome]

Let me be the first gaijin male to say that, in principle, there's absolutely nothing wrong with white chicks. The problem is that there are so few of them in Japan, and let's face it, they probably aren't going to give it up as soon as a J-chick will. To borrow from economics terminology, white chicks represent a major opportunity cost.

Ok, that's going to get me a big load of hate posts, but I'm kind of eager to see peoples' reaction.

[kamome]

Way to go, Alfalfa! The first shot in the battle of the gaijin sexes has been fired. Brace yourself!

Hey, we haven't had many female posters in here until now, so it's about time this topic was addressed. This has the potential to break the record for the longest-running thread on FG.

[cstaylor]

What is wrong with us white chicks? Do you know how difficult is it for a cute young thang like me to get a date on a saturday night in Tokyo???

GomiGirl

Okay, here's my 2 cents: I wouldn't even be in Japan if I hadn't married a Japanese in the U.S., so if I hadn't met my wife I'd probably still be dating (or married to) my previous girlfriend (who was white).

I really respect the foreign women who try and have a go over here... it's bad enough for foreigners, but for foreign women it must be twice as difficult. Hats off to them.

[cstaylor]

Hey, we haven't had many female posters in here until now, so it's about time this topic was addressed. This has the potential to break the record for the longest-running thread on FG.

Only if I bring up Japanese war atrocities again.

[kamome]

Hey, we haven't had many female posters in here until now, so it's about time this topic was addressed. This has the potential to break the record for the longest-running thread on FG.

Only if I bring up Japanese war atrocities again.

Well, I'm sure that topic can be woven into the thread as well. Still looking for rebuttals from GomiGirl and Hanabi.

[GomiGirl]

Sorry I was at a few meetings and am a bit late to take up the gauntlet.

let's face it, they probably aren't going to give it up as soon as a J-chick will. To borrow from economics terminology, white chicks represent a major opportunity cost.

A common misconception my friend!! I cannot speak for other chicks here but I for one definitely "give it up"!! I am so NOT looking for a relationship, just a bonk every now and then would be great!! Plus I am fantastic!!! The term "maguro" is not one that is EVER applied to this little black duck.

It is rough when
a) the "foreign" guys are only interested in the "local talent" - which is fine and all as the law of averages are on your side - and
b) the "local" guys are either too afraid or only want a token "white chick" - besides that, the rumours ARE true and yes it DOES matter.

So that leaves little ol' me in a sad state... what does a girl have to do???

So next time you are scoping out the talent, don't overlook the single "white" babes as if they have been here for any length of time, they are so gagging for it that even the ugly guys stand a chance!!!

If you are stupid, well, that is another matter but you may get lucky if it is a really noisy bar and I can't hear what you are saying..

My criteria lately has been:
* penis
* pulse (optional)

Hey, a girl has needs too!!! but I am yet to hit the classifieds - I haven't made it to that level of desperation - YET.

GomiGirl

(Please take the above in the fun and light-hearted spirit it was intended - life is TOO short for any battle of the sexes.)

[kamome]

A common misconception my friend!! I cannot speak for other chicks here but I for one definitely "give it up"!! I am so NOT looking for a relationship, just a bonk every now and then would be great!! Plus I am fantastic!!! The term "maguro" is not one that is EVER applied to this little black duck.

So that leaves little ol' me in a sad state... what does a girl have to do???

Uh, can I have your phone number?

I agree that life is too short to have a battle of the sexes. I'm just looking to hear all sides of the story. But I'm afraid what I said about opportunity cost is generally the feeling among most gaijin guys here; plus, many guys who come to Japan have a particular "itch" that only Japanese girls can scratch, if you know what I mean.

[cstaylor]

plus, many guys who come to Japan have a particular "itch" that only Japanese girls can scratch, if you know what I mean.

What would that be? Easy living? I came here to make money ( yeah, go ahead and )... little did I know how cheap Japanese customers are... I make more cash consulting for my American customers in a week than I do (at the moment) in a month for my current Japanese customers... but I'm working on fixing the situation.

[GomiGirl]

Uh, can I have your phone number?

Sure - 090 - GOMI - GIRL

[quote="kamome"] But I'm afraid what I said about opportunity cost is generally the feeling among most gaijin guys here]

Sure - completely understand (except about the Japanese scratching thing but I don't need you to explain)

Whatever floats your boat... just don't limit your options cause you may just be suprised... White chicks are not all uptight WASPS looking to snag a husband. I am here for the work and the experience - but I have many talents, breasts and a metaphorical boat that needs floating occassionally too!!

C'mon you all must feel be feeling a little bit sorry for me by now... think about the wealth of talent of the J-girls compared to the J-guys!!!

But I have heard said that "maguro" is a common occurance.... is anybody willing to share on that score??? But then again - you are all into Candy dolls aren't you???? (tongue firmly in cheek)

GomiGirl
(I think I will need a cold shower soon)

[Mr. BIG]

You so don't get it, guy-who-lives-in-Chicago. You are not included in this large nose=affluence deal because you are not Japanese. You are "other." And "others" are freaks. Your big nose is a source of comedy and your skin is a constant reminder that you do not belong.

Very good point....and one that I hadn't previously considered; however, I see my big nose and pale skin as a source of comedy, too. Plus, I don't want to fit in. I'd much rather represent ME and MY values and beliefs than try to completely assimilate into another culture. I'm not bashing assimilation (I actually think it's the only way that humanity stands a chance for long-term survival), but the extent to which some people will go to just to fit in. Back on track: I guess I might be a rareity, but I get a real kick out of the satirical patronization of myself and people with similar ethnic backgrounds as myself.....I just don't take that type of humor seriously I guess. I feel that ethnic humor can be very unnoffensive if it's used in the right context. Having not seen this particular Japanese program, I can't say if I'd be offended by it or not; however, judging from the article that's posted at the beginning of this thread, it sounds like I'd get a kick out of the show. After spending an extended period of time in Japan and feeling the power of Japanese racism first-hand, I don't know if I'll react the same way.....

[hanabi]

Okay, first of all, who's the wise guy who put all the smileys in my "guest" post?

Second, sorry. I temporarily remembered that I had a job, so I didn't get to respond right away.

...let's face it, they probably aren't going to give it up as soon as a J-chick will. To borrow from economics terminology, white chicks represent a major opportunity cost.

You know what I'm going to say, right? Fair enough. I have no idea if Japanese women are easier than western women, but I'll have to take your word for it. If it's true, then live that dream, little buddy!

I guess I'm on a different page than all of you because, when I talk about "gaikokujin women-bashing," I'm not necessarily talking about the dating scene. It seems like the moment I stepped foot in Tokyo the idea of platonic friendship between a heterosexual man and a woman became a myth. You know what? I'm not interested in every foreign guy I see, I'm perfectly happy dating Japanese men, and I see it as a good thing that the entire situation has taught me to be more aggressive. But why is it that every other foreign guy I meet thinks I'm after his body?

I'm not. (Not usually, anyway.) I swear it. I just miss having guy friends. I take it as a cultural issue that I can't have a close friendship with a Japanese man, but why do I have to be shunned by the foreign men too? Granted, I can hardly blame them for letting all the attention from J-bunnies get to their heads. A lot of women back home act the same way, like they're some sort of hot commodity. But, surely, there are a few level-headed guys out there who remember basic social skills. And those guys know that it's degrading to pit foreign women against Japanese women in some sort of figurative mud wrestling match. (I'm not here to compete for attention, and I won't bash Japanese women in front of you just to make myself look better.) Those guys also know that, when I say "hi" to them in the elevator, that doesn't immediately translate into "I want you." I'm just saying "hi" because that's what friendly people do.

And thirdly, I'm neither white nor Japanese. I don't know how much you needed to know that, but it might help give you some perspective into my situation.

[hanabi]

It is rough when
b) the "local" guys are either too afraid or only want a token "white chick" - besides that, the rumours ARE true and yes it DOES matter.

I haven't found that to be true. I mean, it does matter, but that other part is not necessarily true. Maybe you're just really unlucky.

[hanabi]

I want to point out that until this thread, I don't recall any "gaikokujin women-bashing" on this forum.

First of all, I did say it was half in jest, but the subject got drawn out here, so I felt I had to explain.

I know not everyone here does it, and the posts I've been reading lately have been fair. But when I first tried to read this board back in the spring, the thread you mentioned was one of the ones that stayed in my head. That "white chicks" thing didn't bug me so much as this one: "You see a group of gaijin women, take one sniff and think your at Tsukiji market." (As much for the insult as for the misuse of "your.") And even then, I would've taken it as an isolated case of bad judgment if anyone at all would have taken issue with it. But nope. Not one person said anything. The giggling continued and all was well with the world. It just wasn't a world in which I felt very comfortable, so I didn't look back for a few months.

Having returned, I saw that the board has evolved a bit. That's fine.

Dating or being married to a Japanese woman doesn't mean you don't like, or are bashing non-Japanese women. It just might mean you're in love with a woman who happens to be Japanese.

I didn't say anything to the contrary, and I have no idea where this is coming from. I am completely fine with interracial dating and, as I said in my previous post, I'm not competing for attention. So please don't make the wrong assumptions and I'll remember to do you the same courtesy.

[hanabi]

You had to ask for the moon, didn't you?

[kamome]

Is it time to envoke Godwin's Law yet?

We'll leave that to CS. He's been guilty of that in practically every long thread on FG.

I want to point out that until this thread, I don't recall any "gaikokujin women-bashing" on this forum. This thread: 'You've Been In Japan Too Long When...' is about as "bad" as it gets:

Quote:
white chicks start to look exotic

Thank you, thank you. I love seeing an old quote of mine resurfacing in other discussions.

That "white chicks" thing didn't bug me so much as this one: "You see a group of gaijin women, take one sniff and think your at Tsukiji market."

Yeah, I remember that remark. It was in bad taste and not even funny. But I think it was ignored precisely because it was too stupid to be worthy of any commentary.

By the way, I've been wanting to engage hanabi in this thread for a while. Finally (and this goes for Gomigirl too), there are some female posters in the forum to add a fresh perspective.

So size DOES matter, eh? The prevailing myth among Japanese women AND men is that gaijin men are bigger, which contributes to gaijin celebrityhood in Japan. However, having been to my fair share of onsens and gym locker rooms, it seems to me that Japanese guys aren't quite as lacking as the popular belief would indicate. Gaijin men still have the averages in their favor, though.

[GomiGirl]

I like web-boards cos you can talk and read and connect and all those other great things. People are free to express opinions as they are more or less anonymous and written rather than spoken. Therein lies the rub - facial expressions such as sly grins or other body language cannot be seen so the use of smilies help to show when people are being serious or just being lighthearted.

But if I overstep the mark - let me know!! Cos I do take the piss sometimes and I don't want people to be offended in anyway... it is really hard to be cheeky in this type of medium. Life is way too short to be serious all the time so let me know if you want a serious answer...

Having said all that - I do love being in Japan and the dating scene is interesting.. Hanabi makes some great points that I agree with wholeheartedly.

I am completely fine with interracial dating and, as I said in my previous post, I'm not competing for attention. So please don't make the wrong assumptions and I'll remember to do you the same courtesy.

Actually all of these posts have been really fair. But to restate my original position - it can be tough on many levels - but that is not just Japan but all over the world. I am not a man-eater, ball-breaker nor am I a simpering fool waiting for a prince charming. I am an independant, professional gal who is single. I guess many (not all) of the guys that I meet are not comfortable with that. This has just been in my experience and many of my girl-friends have the same issues. I do date and I enjoy dating, meeting interesting people yadi yadi yadi.

I could write an essay but I won't as it would be really boring, suffice to say that I hope to meet some of you sometime - just as friends - as again I agree with Hanabi that there is a bit of stigma being a single "foreign" female in Japan and I too miss having male pals....

Take it easy...
GomiGirl

Best get back to work.

[kamome]

I hope to meet some of you sometime - just as friends -

What's with that? "Just as friends"? You're already putting a limitation on our possibilities before we even meet? That's so unfair. See, THAT's why we gaijin guys go for the J-chicks. We can set our hopes high from the get-go with them.

[GomiGirl]

What's with that? "Just as friends"? You're already putting a limitation on our possibilities before we even meet? That's so unfair. See, THAT's why we gaijin guys go for the J-chicks. We can set our hopes high from the get-go with them.

I can't do anything right!!

Me suspects you are trolling.... and I'm on my best behaviour and everything!! Please read previous posts for context and criteria...

I wish you well!!

GomiGirl

[cstaylor]

Yeah, please take this somewhere else. I have pointless pontifications to make in these public forums, and I don't want to be interrupted by real-life human interaction.

[kamome]

I can't do anything right!!

Me suspects you are trolling.... and I'm on my best behaviour and everything!! Please read previous posts for context and criteria...

I wish you well!!

Nah, it's not my style to troll for chicks on web forums.