shoplifting and extortion

[kansaiboy]

I surf...yeah no big deal...so one day i goto the store to check out new board.. I see it in the catalouge and ask how much...Its Y52,000... i check some things out and say cool, I would like to order it and be back in 2 weeks.. a week later i go in and the guy has the board there, but ive got some questions...price is one...i saw it so much cheaper online (Y25,000) model seems different from what they show in US for this board and ask if I can exchange it... I have yet to pay a dime....

He said he would speak to the distributor and let me know...Make a long story short, the distributor told the store...no...the store then told me "You have to buy it..".... " if not we will call the cops"...okok so anyway i remain cool and say i appreciate he and I are both being screwed but am not going to fork out Y52,000 on a product I dont want....

of course he gets enraged...and a verbal dispute insues....

I call him later and say, look.....I will give u Y10,000 deposit, maybe i will get it next month, but if another guy buys it then thats cool...just as a sign of good will... he comes back and says no..! he wants Y25,000... wow, thats expensive air huh...

His Point:
I ordered the board.

My Point:
I have yet to take delivery and wont buy something I dont want....

Also, as a bonus point, I called the distrubutor to see if they had another model they could swap and they dont.....or should I say, they wont...at least thats what they are telling me.... also nobody threaten's me...especially some surf store...... I have tried but failed to negotiate peace in Japan...

best part, he knows where i work and my poor boss is gonna have to deal with this shit.... welcome to "its my life"

[AssKissinger]

Did you sign or hanko anything?

[kansaiboy]

Did you sign or hanko anything?

No, I didnt...

[AssKissinger]

Did you sign or hanko anything?

No, I didnt...

Then tell him to go fuck his mother.

[kansaiboy]

This is exactly why gaijin shouldn't be allowed into the country.

Then who would u have to blame...? or write about all night long...?

In the states, and Oz, we have 30 days to return any items which we purchase...now what about items we didnt purchase....? hello..!!! common sense...this is why stores usually ask for deposits.... granted the store looses in this case but i was willing to give him Y10,000 as a penalty, but he wanted Y25,000...KMA/.......extortion...come, "hand kufff me then....put me in the car..im cold anyway." A MAN APART -- Overdose being arrested...

[kansaiboy]

its not about race UG....its about right and wrong, business.... how 2 people try to resolve conflict through negotiation.... but when he started yelling abuse...hey comon...im the customer...ah maybe in Japan the customer is always wrong, and has to buy something he doesnt want, and has to pay a 40% higher price for such product just cuz...ah this is Japan...Give me a break.... this is a straight forward topic and trying to look at decent ways to negotiate it.....either give good advice or non at all.

[AssKissinger]

First rule of Gaijin Club:

Gaijin logic doesn't apply in Japan.

It does when you got the upper hand and he definitely does. You know the saying 'When in Rome do as the Romans do'? Well, I got a variation on that one, 'When in Rome do whatever the fuck you wanna'. And this sales guy is full of shit. Call the cops my ass. But I think some of this story might have a hint of BULLSHIT in it. Like the guy getting enraged. I've never seen a JPN sales person outwardly enraged before.

[kansaiboy]

yeah me too...i thought if anyone was gonna loose it, it would be me....I couldnt believe it when he got so pissed...he was not face to face, he called me on the phone.... I even wrote an email to the distributor saying hey this store is good...blah blah blah, can we please help em out and swap over the board..... I feel lke he has kinda been screwed to...be the distrubutor for not being supportive in swapping the item out, and me for not wanting it....but hey I must say i thought my Y10,000 was rather nice of me......until he said Y25,000....

[kansaiboy]

Exhibit A






ok so lets look at the product.. this is the board, from USA site...as u can see it has 2 fins right...very important feature.... the distibutor in Japan claims that it doesnt...but hey this pic is from the maker and my board didnt have this feature...why..? cuz USA have different model or style so they claim, but the top of the board is exactly the same as the one in the store here........ sound suspect...? yeah like its not the real deal maybe....


Price in US is $250.... that converts to Y27,000, now with shipping it would come to Y33,000....

In Japan they charge Y52,000...... almost Y20,000 mark up.... can I get this board in the states...ah yes if I wanted to....it can be ordered online...did i order it online...no.....why, cuz I wanted to give the store in Japan business but wanted to exchange it for the right board....period...

Is it so wrong to make sure ur not being ripped off....

[Big Booger]

In the future, don't order anything you are not seriously going to purchase. While you are right per se in the fact that you don't have to buy anything for which you haven't signed, you basically gave the go ahead verbally... It's your integrity on the line, not the surf shop. You agreed to pay the price, and now that you found a better deal you want to shaft the surf shop?

I'd be pissed too if that was my shop. Sounds like you special ordered the board. He should have gotten you to inkan a purchase order or something. The shop is at fault for that.

I know in the future the next gaijin that wants to buy something will get the royal treatment for sure. That shop will probably take the outlook that gaijin are not to be trusted.. which in the end might help the shop prevent turds from ordering stuff without making it official with an inkan or document.

Think if it were your business and some pisswad ordered something and then found a cheaper deal and shafted you with an ordered board that may or may not sell....

[kansaiboy]

money isnt the main point though... Im not pissed about the cost... I knew the price..that was ok...what i am upset about is that its not the product what should be...yeah that is my mistake.... should have continued my research more before i told the store i would like to order the board..I do agree...but when I tried to find a solution, it turned nasty, real fast.... I didnt get that board online, in fact i was just trying to prove a point, there is a huge mark up, I know there is, so why cant they try to get me the product I want if Im gonna pay such a price.....? I even stated, I would send him Y10,000 as a deposit, hold it for me, and if someone grabs it before pay day then my loss...not his....

[kotatsuneko]

i thought a verbal contract was legal in japan.. at least regarding employment, not sure about shops tho..

[duke]

If you no longer want the board, why not do the SIMPLE thing and simply NOT return to the store? Honestly this seems the most basic of logic and likely to have the potential to cause least stress/aggravation..............

[kansaiboy]

thats better UG...that helps me alot to try to do thr right thing....thanks....

[AssKissinger]

thats better UG...that helps me alot to try to do thr right thing....thanks....

Oh fer fuck's sake you don't have to be such a kissass just cause he's the webmaster! Verbal agreement my ass. Like the Japanese are any more likely to keep their word than a gaijin. What a crock of BULLSHIT. And to suggest it might be legally binding? Give me a break! If they want to bind you to an item they'll make you pay a deposit to protect themselves. Otherwise, they're just adding to the inventory of their store and they know it. And don't let any of these BULLSHIT FG's fool you. They wouldn't pay 50,000 yen for some shit they don't want either and neither would 99% of JPN. I can't believe this moral highground crap I'm hearing from you guys. And playing the gaijin card is even more crap. He's gonna spoil it for future gaijin shoppers Puh-leeze! Like he should spend all that money for something he doesn't want out of a duty to other gaijin! OK let's turn the tables. Suppose this guy called the manufacture and it turned out the board now costs 100,000 yen wholesale. Do you think he would have swallowed a 50,000 yen loss just because he gave his word? If you do, I got a bridge to sell you.

[jingai]

Like the Japanese are any more likely to keep their word than a gaijin

Do you know anything about how business is done in Japan? Do you really think there are no cultural differences in business dealings? Don't you think that an obsession with written, binding contracts and endless litigation over them is strange and unnecessary?

He's gonna spoil it for future gaijin shoppers? Puh-leeze!

So you think it's okay to use anything you can to your selfish advantage just because you're a foreigner? I bet "Japanese only" signs will start cropping up in your wake.

"Yankee, go home"

[Big Booger]

Like the Japanese are any more likely to keep their word than a gaijin

Do you know anything about how business is done in Japan? Do you really think there are no cultural differences in business dealings? Don't you think that an obsession with written, binding contracts and endless litigation over them is strange and unnecessary?

He's gonna spoil it for future gaijin shoppers? Puh-leeze!

So you think it's okay to use anything you can to your selfish advantage just because you're a foreigner? I bet "Japanese only" signs will start cropping up in your wake.

"Yankee, go home"

Nicely put.

[Caustic Saint]

I hope you've got another surf shop you can go to. This guy's certainly not going to want to deal with you anymore. And if there are other local shops, he might just spread the word about you...

[AssKissinger]

Do you really think there are no cultural differences in business dealings?

There's one common denominator, greed.

So you think it's okay to use anything you can to your selfish advantage just because you're a foreigner? I bet "Japanese only" signs will start cropping up in your wake.

"Yankee, go home"

Is your location setting correct? Do you live really live in Hartford? If so, spare me the lecture on how things are done in Japan. BTW, I'll use any advantage I can get and so do you and so does everyone else. Yall are saying he should take it up the ass because he's a gaijin. I'm saying he should handle it the same way the Japanese would. And yeah, I really think there are no cultural differences in business. It's all about profit, here, there and everywhere. I can't believe this implication that the Japanese are more likely to keep their word than foreigners.

[AssKissinger]

I hope you've got another surf shop you can go to. This guy's certainly not going to want to deal with you anymore. And if there are other local shops, he might just spread the word about you...

Yeah, there's only like 50 million people in Kansai, Japan. Like the next shop would give a fuck when he's rollin' in with a pocket full of ichimans. They'd just have him sign a deposit same as with anyone else.

[kamome]

I had a similar situation once with JTB. I made a reservation but they didn't take my credit card information or any kind of cash deposit. Turned out that I needed to change the dates for the ticket. When I called the agency, they told me that I would have to pay a penalty on top of the price of the ticket. I said, "Wait, I haven't paid anything yet. Why charge me a penalty if I can just cancel the ticket entirely, walk across the street to the next travel agency, and get a new ticket without a penalty?" At first they argued with me, but eventually realized there was nothing they could do.

Bottom line: you have the right as a consumer to walk away. Neither the surfboard store nor the travel agency in my case made any attempt to secure a deposit. They assumed the risk that their customer would walk away. That's a risk of doing business. In both my case and kansaiboy's case, we chose to walk away. There is nothing wrong with that, in my opinion. It's the nature of the market. I also think it's bad business practice to try to intimidate or threaten a customer who has chosen to walk away from a purchase, whether it's Japan or some other country.

[kansaiboy]

...so one day i goto the store to check out new board.. I see it in the catalouge and ask how much...Its Y52,000... i check some things out and say cool, I would like to order it and be back in 2 weeks..

Well, obviously we're only getting one side of the story here. Too bad we can't get the shop owner to post his take on the situation.

Bottom line is, did you order it or not? By your account, it sounds like either you did order it or you said you would come back in two weeks and order it (which is a significant difference). In case one, you should take responsibility for the order. In the second case, it sounds like the shop owner jumped the gun ordering it, so it's his problem. This could be a language problem on top of a cultural misunderstanding of a verbal agreement between customer and salesman.

From your post, it doesn't sound like he would've ordered it if he didn't think you were going to buy it.

Compounding the issue is the fact that the Japanese product doesn't match the US description, but the bigger issue is still whether you ordered it or not. It's really up to the store owner to decide if he wants to make some kind of compromise for you ordering the wrong product. If you had paid a deposit, signed an order form and had the same problem of the product not fitting the description, what would you do?

If this wasn't Japan and you were in the same situation where the shop owner took exactly the same position, what would you do?

In the end, since you haven't paid anything, you have the upper hand and can do whatever you want. If paying him will make you feel better (and that's all this is really about), then do it. If not, then walk away and live with it.

Ok, If i wasnt in Japan, and an Australian salesman spoke to me that way...what would I do...? I would beat he living fuck out of him....pure as french. I would goto court for the assualt just to ah...how did u put it..."make me feel better"...!!!!!!! remember how this guy spoke to me, threatened me....why cuz this is Japan...LOL thats a joke..... he thinks threats can make me pay for something i dont want.... If I was in Australia, and I was a salesperson, this wouldnt have been an issue cuz we have a 30 day consumer law.....get it...!!!!
SEE THE POINT...IS IT NOW CLEAR FOR YA...!!!

[AssKissinger]

If I was in Australia, and I was a salesperson, this wouldnt have been an issue cuz we have a 30 day consumer law

I don't get it. What's that?

[kansaiboy]

if u are unhappy with a product, u have 30 days to return the said product as long as its not damaged ..etc blah blah blah..... even after u paid for it....

if the store had a deposit, lets say Y15,000 in Australia, i special ordered a product, wanted to swap it out i could but i would be hit with a penalty for shipping, which he would take from my beloved bank roll.... in the case we talk about here....i didnt pay shit, and some people here think that I should buy a product i dont want out of...ah respect, even after the guy gives me all this crap...... wow...interesting....!!!!

[GomiGirl]

Lots of interesting opinions.. but as somebody who deals with the general public I can honestly say that "Buyers are Liars"...

As a decent human being, if you made the order in good faith then you should purchase it. If you were not sure, then you shouldn't have committed to such an expensive purchase. Bright shiny things are very attractive but as an adult you should have control over your purchasing implulses if you are on a budget.

That said, Kamome is right and you are not obliged to take it if you didn't sign or pay a deposit.. that is the silly fault of the retailer for trusting you. If you didn't purchase it, you should have lost your deposit.

But how much time and grief have you caused to this store? You have wasted his time and his time costs his employer money. You asked about the huge mark-up. It is NOT greed, it is basic economics. Stores aren't there to rip everybody off, they are trying to make a living to pay their bills like everybody else.

AK and his hatred of all companies should have a little common sense and respect for other poor working saps.... not everybody runs a huge corporation - Japan is built on the back of small businesses and their savings and it is these small businesses who have to suffer at the smallest hiccup in the economy and it is these small companies who are not forgiven huge bad debts. So wasting this guy's time is hurting his business.

/rant.

[GomiGirl]

SEE THE POINT...IS IT NOW CLEAR FOR YA...!!!

Sorry to be the grammar and spelling and punctation nazi, but your posts are really hard to read.

Please do us and yourself a favour and use standard grammar and spelling rules.

[nullpointer]

He's gonna spoil it for future gaijin shoppers Puh-leeze! Like he should spend all that money for something he doesn't want out of a duty to other gaijin!

I totally agree with this. At this point, the experience for future gaijins is already spoiled even if you kiss his ass and pay double the price. What BULLSHIT!

[jingai]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, but the only honorable solution in a situation like this is to commit suicide, preferably seppuku. Remember, TIJ.

[kansaiboy]

SEE THE POINT...IS IT NOW CLEAR FOR YA...!!!

Sorry to be the grammar and spelling and punctation nazi, but your posts are really hard to read.

Please do us and yourself a favour and use standard grammar and spelling rules.

cant read it......then dont....!

Its really funny to see all these people say its ok for the guy to treat me like shit, ( initially ) and I should still go and give him money..... wow.... wish I had customers like you. hey after his threats, why would I give a shit about his business.... this bleeding heart crap is to much for me to read anymore.... I guess I did answer my ? or AS did.....he was screwed by a "Fucked Gaijin" who wouldnt let himself be fucked up the ass....

[kansaiboy]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, but the only honorable solution in a situation like this is to commit suicide, preferably seppuku. Remember, TIJ.

I dont think the store owner needs to go that far...? I know japanese love drama, but hey im not Korean.