... and behind it all... racism

[cstaylor]

well cs I think you are talking in technical terms far too often, get your head out of a dictionary and look around, not everything can be given a linguistic absoloute

So what you're saying is that I should just "take your word for it", rather than consult with a trusted resource: books.

For someone who likes to talk in definitions, you really miss the point. History repeating itself is an expression or phrase that if we dont learn from our mistakes, we are doomed to repeat them(close your dictionary for second)

So what you're saying is that we need to analyze the past in order to make a more productive future? Or are you saying we are slaves to the past, without any hope of transcending our base humanity?

anyway making a point with you is largely unproductive due to your tit-for-tat thinking.

Well, if you were looking for someone to agree with you, you could just ignore my post and reply to Kamome. ]eg. hitler commit suicide he was`nt bought to justice.well ddddduuuuhhh[/quote]Not really. Language is very imprecise, and you were making an analogy. If Hitler had been tried and executed, we could say the same for "why wasn't Hirohito tried and executed"? But that never happened, so the parallel doesn't exist.
How many Nazis got the death-penalty after Nuremberg? Not as many as you think, I'm sure.

you are you incapable of reading between the lines?

It's too dangerous to assume what someone else is saying. Clarity of words creates clarity in thinking (not my quote... I just forgot who said it).

if someone mentions comfort women/textbooks you bring in japanese internment camps etc etc. catch 22, you sound like a politican yourself.

No, my point was that Japanese-Americans were compensated roughly $20,000 per person, much lower than a salaryman's yearly wages (as you pointed out in your post)

The point I make and still do is as you partly agree, nowhere near enough was done morally/legally or educationaly by the japanese after ww2.

Of course not. It wasn't in the American national interest to make that happen.

I think your concept that we can`t say anything about the past because we were`nt victims ourself is ridiculous...

You can say whatever you like (if you live in a country like the U.S. with 1st amendment protection), but that doesn't stop me from tut-tutting the racism involved.

perhaps thats why people in america etc shrug their shoulders and say oh well screw you indiginous people..thats history. you were`nt there so stiff!

How about helping the people today? If they're poor, regardless of reason, give them a hand up so they can support themselves... wallowing in the past (especially stories told second or third hand by victims) doesn't solve anything.

thats a pathetic attitude

I'll refrain from stooping to your level. Perhaps you should ask yourself, "does my race matter". If you say, "yes", then this world will never improve, because you and people like you are a part of the problem.

so what if cameroons literacy rate is 63%?

"So what?" Are you crazy? If you can't read, you can't progress. If you can't progress, you will always be at the mercy of those who control the pens, and the swords, and the money.

So your idol is power, well done your not alone

Another ad hominem.

[cstaylor]

Tin, calm down. Here's my point (and it's unfortunate that I chose a topic near to your heart) through an analogy without names:

100 years ago, Group A was invaded by Group B. Group A did not have the military capacity to repel the invasion, and was colonized by B. 40 years pass, and Group B has expanded its appetite to Group C in the north and Group D and Group E's holdings in surrounding areas. Group U, several thousand miles away, grows concerned with B's activities, places an embargo on war-materials sold to Group B, on the condition that they will be lifted once Group B leaves Group C, D, E alone. Group B, knowing that it cannot continue an expansion without the necessary resources either purchased from Group U or stolen from countries previously controlled by groups D and E, decides that it must strike first at group U's military installations in the middle of the ocean and at Group D's military installations closer to home.

Five years pass as Group U continues to advance upon Group B, pushing it back at every turn, until Group B has no remaining naval forces and has retreated back to its home country. Group U offers an ultimatum: "Surrender unconditionally or face the consequences". Group B does what you mention in the previous post (not absolutely refusing the offer for Peace, but not saying "yes" either), and the results are two massive bombings in two previously undamaged mixed military targets.

Group B, knowing that it faces complete extermination at the hands of Group U, surrenders.

50 years pass, and the children of Group B wonder why the children of Group A hate them for their ethnicity.

This is my question: Why do the children of Group B have any responsibility to the children of Group A? Did they commit crimes? No.

In the Pacific War, the groups are: A - Korea B - Japan C - China D - Great Britain E - France U - the United States.

[cstaylor]

Okay, OKAY, ENOUGH. Jesus Christ you people are fucking pushy. I'm glad I'm not Japanese, that's for sure, 'cause I can't find the door with all the hate flying around here.

None of you have answered my actual point: should Japanese, born after the end of the Second World War, feel guilty about their country's role in the war? Is the hatred they receive from Koreans (as in the original article I posted) healthy for both Korea or Japan? I'd like a yes or no instead of a shitload of ad hominem bullshit. I'm not talking about textbooks (that no one uses, except for the one school for children with learning impediments), or if so-and-so got the noose after August 15th, 1945, but about hate and hate-speech aimed at Japanese today by descendents of the original victims.

[cstaylor]

CS,many original victim had died, left behind ones are the family members with painful memories.Like I said before it takes time to forgive and forget

Honestly, I don't think it will ever happen (think Kosovo and Serbia).

Anyway not just Koreans don't like the Japanese,many Japanese do not like the Koreans too,I don't know why

"Racism is a two-way street" is probably the best answer I can think of. ]Ganbatte,CS!!![/quote]Hell, I need all the help I can get with this crowd. Fortunate for me that Ultra didn't drop any Photoshop bombs into this thread.

[kamome]

Well, CS, don't feel too bad. I've been on the receiving end when I took a less-than-popular position in that thread about guilty rapists who deserve the extra punishment they get in a Japanese jail. I honestly didn't think that would be an unpopular opinion, but I believe people were misinterpreting what I was saying (that tends to happen with any issue that is emotionally charged--people will react before thinking or listening to what the other person is trying to say).

Of course, in this thread, I thoughtfully considered your argument, and only after pondering its meaning for a while and carefully thinking through the logic, then and only then did I proceed to urinate on it. But I thought about it first, I really did!

[cstaylor]

Hey, it's okay when I pile on you, but not when I'm on the receiving end..

[befamfivh]

Ha ha, tell it like it is, bukowski.

It really is apparent that you're a CS professional, CS -- always thinking in terms of ideals. Unfortunately, the world is not an entirely ideal place. As bukowski said, sometimes reparations must be made in situations like this. You say Koreans should start forgetting past crimes and let things go -- just like the Japanese are doing. The Japanese aren't letting go of useless, hateful baggage, they're shrugging off atrocities.

[befamfivh]

Ha ha, tell it like it is, bukowski.

It really is apparent that you're a CS professional, CS -- always thinking in terms of ideals. Unfortunately, the world is not an entirely ideal place. As bukowski said, sometimes reparations must be made in situations like this. You say Koreans should start forgetting past crimes and let things go -- just like the Japanese are doing. The Japanese aren't letting go of useless, hateful baggage, they're shrugging off atrocities.

edit: heh, I shoulda piped in a month and a half earlier I guess. For some reason I didn't notice the dates when I posted this -- oops.

[cstaylor]

You Western geeks are all alike. Afraid of reparations because you are all GUILTY of racism and genocide, especially you bullshit JET program(me) participants who ride yer high horses and actually believe in yer own superiority.

FUCK YOU and go back to yer trailer parks!

MORONS!!!!!

Doesn't anger originate from self-loathing?

[cstaylor]

It really is apparent that you're a CS professional, CS -- always thinking in terms of ideals.

Guilty as charged. What I think has no impact on anything that happens in Japan (the best analogy I could come up with is that gaijin are the equivalent of navel lint... tolerated, but purged when they get too annoying).

Unfortunately, the world is not an entirely ideal place

You may say I'm a dreamer,
but I'm not the only one,
I hope some day you'll join us,
And the world will live as one

Maybe if enough people believe?

[cstaylor]

[befamfivh]

You may say I'm a dreamer,
but I'm not the only one,
I hope some day you'll join us,
And the world will live as one

Maybe if enough people believe? :idea:[/quote]

Oh, how touching... I wasn't saying that I disagree about your ideals. Ideally, WWII shouldn't have happened. Given that it did, ideally, everyone should have promised never to do bad things again and then go on to live in peace forever. But somehow I think that can never happen.

[cstaylor]

Maybe you'll appreciate this quote more:

"I gotta do what? I gotta BELIEVE!"

[befamfivh]

Alright, I'm sold. Lets take this one to the streets, CS; you and me. Together, we'll change the world!

[cstaylor]

Ideally, WWII shouldn't have happened

I disagree with you there... although if it wasn't the Japanese, there probably would have been some serious British interference with the rising tide of the Chinese nationalist and communist movements.

Given that it did, ideally, everyone should have promised never to do bad things again and then go on to live in peace forever

I may be an idealist, but I'm not naive. My entire argument was over inheriting the baggage of the past. It doesn't help the Japanese as a group when the government and prominent politicians try to explain away the past, or when local governments decide to go the Texas route on education.

[cstaylor]

Alright, I'm sold. Lets take this one to the streets, CS]you and me[/b]. Together, we'll change the world!

Sorry, you must have me confused with someone else. I am an idealist, not an activist. I leave the dirty work to others more courageous than my anonymous ravings on a chat board.