shoplifting and extortion

[jingai]

Hey, who let AssKisser post under a second username

bleeding heart crap is to much for me to read anymore.... I guess I did answer my ? or AS did.....he was screwed by a "Fucked Gaijin" who wouldnt let himself be fucked up the ass....

Those were your last words, right?

[kansaiboy]

This topic has been hot and has helped....look, in a positive way, this will prevent other gaijins from being in the same situation. I wish I had paid a deposit cuz then all i would loose would be the deposit....hey my own fault right...? but i wouldnt have been treated or extorted like this.... if i lost my deposit, then NO ONE could argue i was in the right.... it would be more like "hey buddy, them the breaks".

In Japan, the word NO is not often said...... but having grown up in NYC, when someone steps to you like this, its easy just to say no and walk away.....

For the store owner, well i did offer money to him, but it wasnt enough.... compromise is the key point...not threats...

such is llife....

[kamome]

This topic has been hot and has helped....look, in a positive way, this will prevent other gaijins from being in the same situation. I wish I had paid a deposit cuz then all i would loose would be the deposit....hey my own fault right...? but i wouldnt have been treated or extorted like this.... if i lost my deposit, then NO ONE could argue i was in the right.... it would be more like "hey buddy, them the breaks".

Personally, I wouldn't pay a deposit for an item I was ordering through a catalog. You never know from the picture if you'll be happy with the item. Plus, a deposit shouldn't be necessary--as ultra said, the guy is in the business of selling boards. So if you don't buy it, he can sell it to the next guy. I don't understand why people think that the business owner is totally screwed just because kansaiboy walked away from the purchase. Somewhat inconvenienced, maybe. But he'll sell it eventually.

[Deckard]

Plus, what happened to keigo? How about being humble to your kyaku-sama? The're is no excuse for abusing a customer, that's their rules. They ordered the wrong item, charged way too much, THEY should apologize.

[GomiGirl]

Plus, what happened to keigo? How about being humble to your kyaku-sama? The're is no excuse for abusing a customer, that's their rules. They ordered the wrong item, charged way too much, THEY should apologize.

No the store ordered the correct product - the guy just changed his mind and didn't want to pay for it.

[kansaiboy]

Plus, what happened to keigo? How about being humble to your kyaku-sama? The're is no excuse for abusing a customer, that's their rules. They ordered the wrong item, charged way too much, THEY should apologize.

No the store ordered the correct product - the guy just changed his mind and didn't want to pay for it.

Hey, did u even read the initial post,look at the differences of the product...? HELLLLOOOO its not the same thing girl.... The store got screwed by the distributor more than by me...wake up....

[Mulboyne]

If I was in Australia...this wouldnt have been an issue cuz we have a 30 day consumer law...if u are unhappy with a product, u have 30 days to return the said product as long as its not damaged

That would only apply if the board you bought was not the one you ordered. Consumer law in Australia

Simply because a shop displays a 'no refund' sign does not mean that you are not entitled to a refund. Under consumer protection legislation, you are entitled to a refund, exchange or repair if something you bought:

-is faulty or defective and you were not aware of it when you bought it]-simply changed your mind about your purchase[/b];
-have damaged the goods you bought; or
-knew or should have known about a fault when you bought the goods (for example. factory seconds)

I think from your posts you are saying that you looked at a board in the catalogue, ordered it and the shop obtained the board that you had ordered. With that sequence of events, if you had paid your money then you wouldn't be entitled to a refund in Australia. However, I can't work out this bit about the board being different from the manufacturers catalogue. If the shop got the board that you looked at in their shop catalogue then they wouldn't have to provide a refund. If, instead, they have ordered the wrong board (I don't think you are saying they did) then refund rules would apply.
I know in your actual case you didn't actually pay for anything but I'm not sure you can tell yourself that Australian consumer law would have given you a way out.

[GomiGirl]

Plus, what happened to keigo? How about being humble to your kyaku-sama? The're is no excuse for abusing a customer, that's their rules. They ordered the wrong item, charged way too much, THEY should apologize.

No the store ordered the correct product - the guy just changed his mind and didn't want to pay for it.

Hey, did u even read the initial post,look at the differences of the product...? HELLLLOOOO its not the same thing girl.... The store got screwed by the distributor more than by me...wake up....

I did read it but your grammar and licence with spelling was so bad that it was hard to make out.

You said that you had questions.. price being one of them. You didn't make it clear that there was a difference in the product you saw in the catalog and the one that arrived in the store.

It sounded that you were just pissed off that the shop had a different price to what you saw on-line and you were renegging on that basis.

[kamome]

It sounded that you were just pissed off that the shop had a different price to what you saw on-line and you were renegging on that basis.

It doesn't really matter what his reasons were; I think he had the right to walk away without purchasing the product and without explanation.

[kansaiboy]

The surf shop guy went to my school tonight, Staff let him in and he also delivered the board...now due to him being allowed to do this I have a serious issue. The guy got staff to call me and demand payment...If I refuse he would goto the police saying I have the board ( smart move on the shop owners side ). To Keep me out of handcuffs for the night I agreed to pay this mother fucker next month but I hope u can see the big picture...Its extortion...Its illegal...and hope someone with some brains can see what just happened.... Staff did was trying to help but didnt get what was going on...its not his fault, its not even work related...but it is bullshit...

If i hadnt agreed it would cause the school more problems tonight....I dont want the police coming to the school....thats just bad image for me and the other staff...

Can u please explain what harrassment and extorion is to us so we get what happened.......the big picture.. i didnt threaten anyone, harrass anyone...all i did was protect myself from being ripped off......

You kooks who had such bleeding hearts for this guy, maybe now u can see what i was talking about.....

[kansaiboy]

If I was in Australia...this wouldnt have been an issue cuz we have a 30 day consumer law...if u are unhappy with a product, u have 30 days to return the said product as long as its not damaged

That would only apply if the board you bought was not the one you ordered. Consumer law in Australia

Simply because a shop displays a 'no refund' sign does not mean that you are not entitled to a refund. Under consumer protection legislation, you are entitled to a refund, exchange or repair if something you bought:
-is faulty or defective and you were not aware of it when you bought it]does not do the job you were led to believe it would do; [/b]-does not match the sample you were shown; or
-is not as described on the box or in an advertisement.

Businesses do not have to give you a refund if you:

-cannot prove that you bought it (for example, you don't have a receipt);
-simply changed your mind about your purchase;
-have damaged the goods you bought; or
-knew or should have known about a fault when you bought the goods (for example. factory seconds)

I think from your posts you are saying that you looked at a board in the catalogue, ordered it and the shop obtained the board that you had ordered. With that sequence of events, if you had paid your money then you wouldn't be entitled to a refund in Australia. However, I can't work out this bit about the board being different from the manufacturers catalogue. If the shop got the board that you looked at in their shop catalogue then they wouldn't have to provide a refund. If, instead, they have ordered the wrong board (I don't think you are saying they did) then refund rules would apply.
I know in your actual case you didn't actually pay for anything but I'm not sure you can tell yourself that Australian consumer law would have given you a way out.

Pls see my corrections in the law and the bold type describing the same....

The law would have cuz I didnt take delivery or make a purchase...

[jingai]

See- Japanese do have a special way of doing business- using personal and social ties to constrain behavior. Very smart...

The guy got staff to call me and demand payment...If I refuse he would goto the police saying I have the board ( smart move on the shop owners side ). To Keep me out of handcuffs for the night I agreed to pay this mother fucker next month but I hope u can see the big picture...Its extortion...Its illegal...and hope someone with some brains can see what just happened.... Staff did was trying to help but didnt get what was going on...its not his fault, its not even work related...but it is bullshit...

I think the police thing is just to scare you into action- if you show pictures of what you "ordered" verses what was delivered, would you really be in trouble?
How's your Japanese? It just seems like something's getting lost in translation here. In your most earnest and sincere way of speaking, tell anyone involved you're happy to pay for the correct thing when it arrives and you are shipping the other board back by post, and are very sorry about the confusion and misunderstanding.

[AssKissinger]

See- Japanese do have a special way of doing business- using personal and social ties to constrain behavior. Very smart...

It wouldn't work with me. Take a free board. Don't pay. Say you did pay and it's defective and you want your money back. Go to the store and make a huge scene all day yelling and disrupting their business. Call them a million times a day. Call the police yourself. File charges for selling you a broken board. But dude, why do they know your phone number and work place? If some how it works out you have to pay try to steal from the store to compensate for it if possible. Otherwise wait awhile and then vandalize the store. Slit the tires of the guy's car and so on. Call his home if you can find his number. Take pictures of his family and show them to him.

[Mulboyne]

The law would have cuz I didnt take delivery or make a purchase..."

No. The law applies to when you have made a purchase and whether you are entitled to a refund. So, in your case, since you are not yet a consumer (you didn't buy anything) the law is not relevant. If you don't "take delivery or make a purchase" you are not a consumer so forget the law.
If you had made a purchase, then, sure, you would be a consumer with the rights detailed above. I got the impression that you think you would be entitled to return something you paid for in Australia within 30 days - the conditions under Australian law are pretty clear so I can't figure out how they would help you if you had agreed to pay for the board that the shop had ordered for you.
You highlight the two clauses which may apply if you did buy the board but in the case that the board "did not do the job you were led to believe it would do" - what did the shop salesman lead you to believe it would do that it did not do? That clause is to protect you against a false sales patter, not your bad judgement. You are Ok if the guy promised you something that the board could not do but you have not suggested that.
In the second case, that it "is not as described on the box or in an advertisement" - that is what I was asking you and I don't have a clear answer from you. You think the board that you ordered is different to the one you see on the manufacturers web site. But you didn't order from the manufacturers website. I don't know, but from your posts. it seems you ordered from the shop catalogue. As long as the board is the same as the one you pointed to in the shop then, under Australian Law, you would have no recourse if you completed the purchase. If it was not the same then this thread has an easy conclusion - they are wrong.
I'm not commenting on whether you should have bought it or not, I just can't see how being under Australian Law would have helped. If you are saying that Australian law would not force you to make the purchase then I would absolutely agree. But Japanese law would not force you either (no matter what a rabid salesman says) so I still don't see why you cite Australian law as more supportive for your case.

[Big Booger]

See- Japanese do have a special way of doing business- using personal and social ties to constrain behavior. Very smart...

It wouldn't work with me. Take a free board. Don't pay. Say you did pay and it's defective and you want your money back. Go to the store and make a huge scene all day yelling and disrupting their business. Call them a million times a day. Call the police yourself. File charges for selling you a broken board. But dude, why do they know your phone number and work place? If some how it works out you have to pay try to steal from the store to compensate for it if possible. Otherwise wait awhile and then vandalize the store. Slit the tires of the guy's car and so on. Call his home if you can find his number. Take pictures of his family and show them to him.

AK's take on how not to remain free in Japan for very long.

[kansaiboy]

u know what...Japan does have a way of doing business and so do I. I will be taking his ass to the police today for Extortion and Harrassment..... funny how so many kooks were saying "ah u should buy it because he is a poor shop owner" and u r wrong he is right...blah blah blah... how much do english teachers make...? I am sure he has more $$$$ than I do, so in the game iof survival of the fittest, fuck em all.....also this for the lifer english teacher sheila who complained about my GRAMMA...hey get over yourself. As to the law, I didnt buy it so In Australia I would simply tell him to get fucked....thats pretty straight forward...ASSK is right, but revenge is best served cold.....

[Big Booger]

u know what...Japan does have a way of doing business and so do I. I will be taking his ass to the police today for Extortion and Harrassment..... funny how so many kooks were saying "ah u should buy it because he is a poor shop owner" and u r wrong he is right...blah blah blah... how much do english teachers make...? I am sure he has more $$$$ than I do, so in the game iof survival of the fittest, fuck em all.....also this for the lifer english teacher sheila who complained about my GRAMMA...hey get over yourself. As to the law, I didnt buy it so In Australia I would simply tell him to get fucked....thats pretty straight forward...ASSK is right, but revenge is best served cold.....

I find it hard to believe that you are an English teacher. If so, I pity your students.

Good luck with your arrest.

[AssKissinger]

I will be taking his ass to the police today for Extortion and Harrassment

Good on ya.

funny how so many kooks were saying "ah u should buy it because he is a poor shop owner" and u r wrong he is right...blah blah blah... how much do english teachers make...? I am sure he has more $$$$ than I do, so in the game iof survival of the fittest, fuck em all..

:cheers:

ASSK is right

As usual.

I find it hard to believe that you are an English teacher. If so, I pity your students.

I guess he wasn't brainwashed into believing that good steward cultural ambassador (Oh I let him shove it up my ass since it's the Japanese way )crap they seem to drill into all the JETs.

[GomiGirl]

also this for the lifer english teacher sheila who complained about my GRAMMA...hey get over yourself.

This sheila is not an English teacher.. just somebody who appreciates good communication skills. You started the thread and you wanted assistance with a problem that you had, so it would only be polite to the people you are asking to help you to make sure that you are easily understood.

But my aren't we aggressive today? Not had your weet-bix for brekky lately?

[nullpointer]

This sheila is not an English teacher..

Yup.... she's not. Else she would know how to spell reneging

It sounded that you were just pissed off that the shop had a different price to what you saw on-line and you were renegging on that basis.

....ducks

[Neo-Rio]

The owner (no matter who is right or wrong in this situation) blew his cool FIRST. In my experience dealing with customers in Japan, I can safely say that whoever loses their cool first is going to be seen by all and sundry as the instigator of trouble. Whoever wrecks the "wa" first loses - and leaves themselves wide open for trouble.

As much as you want to beat the living ca-ca out of this shop owner, best thing to do is to act as polite as possible. It is not your fault. This guy can technically still sell this board he ordered to another customer so he is not at a loss anyway. The fact that he never got any written proof of a transaction is his fault. The fact that he delivered a board to you WITHOUT YOU REQUESTING IT is only sticking him further into the mire really. You only asked him to order and stock the board in his shop! I mean, you can literally get this delivered board you now have and walk off with it into the sunset, and there wouldn't be a god-damn thing this guy could do about it. There are no receipts, no hanko, no nothing. You have witnesses saying that he delivered a board to you for free with no contract.

HOWEVER,.... rather than falling to the temptation of racking the board and returning the insult, my advice is to play this one straight. Be polite and say that you requested a board, but you got the wrong one and are now looking elsewhere for a new board. There is no evidence. Even though it's your word against his, HE GAVE YOU THE WRONG BOARD. I would use this as an excuse to say that the verbal agreement is now OFF - to get yourself out of this "personal honor" rubbish.

Even though this guy is a raving looney, try and get that board back to him. DON'T threaten violence, return insults, raise your voice or anything. Even if the cops make their prescence known, make him out to be the bully - and you can only do that if you don't return the insults. Frame it up like that and just don't shop at this guy's place again. Rasing your voice at a customer is a no-no in Japan and he should know that.

[Big Booger]

I will be taking his ass to the police today for Extortion and Harrassment

Good on ya.

funny how so many kooks were saying "ah u should buy it because he is a poor shop owner" and u r wrong he is right...blah blah blah... how much do english teachers make...? I am sure he has more $$$$ than I do, so in the game iof survival of the fittest, fuck em all..

:cheers:

ASSK is right

As usual.

I find it hard to believe that you are an English teacher. If so, I pity your students.

I guess he wasn't brainwashed into believing that good steward cultural ambassador (Oh I let him shove it up my ass since it's the Japanese way )crap they seem to drill into all the JETs.

LMAO.. I wasn't pitying his students because he's taking a piss on the surf shop. I was in fact pitying his students because of his l33t Engrish skillz... I know this is a board, but if you claim to be a language teacher certainly you should be able to effectively communicate in the language you are teaching.

All I can say is this, the guy ordered a board. It was the board he asked for. The surf shop orders the board. Then the guy finds a better deal and decides to shaft the surf shop.

so one day i goto the store to check out new board.. I see it in the catalouge and ask how much...Its Y52,000... i check some things out and say cool, I would like to order it and be back in 2 weeks.. a week later i go in and the guy has the board there, but ive got some questions...price is one...i saw it so much cheaper online (Y25,000) model seems different from what they show in US for this board and ask if I can exchange it...

He compared board A to board B. Board A is in Japan and board B is in the US.. I'm sorry to say but the board he ordered was the board he saw in the catalog. He then compared board A to board B, and they were (as they should have been) different. Then he tries to get out of paying for what he ordered.

A great analogy to this would be you go into McDs to order a meal. You decide you want a BigMac meal. You order and wait for your meal. While you are waiting, you get on your ketai and see an add for a Quarter Pounder. You decide you want it instead as soon as they bring you your BigMac... Of course you already paid (the difference between this analogy and his experience).. should you demand your quarter pounder because you changed your mind for something different? I think not...

I'm all for attacking when attacked, prodding when prodded, staring when stared upon, etc... I've had my run INS.

It's one thing to stand up for the right thing, it's another to be a prick and a weasel for the hell of it.

And I am not saying the surf shop owner is right. Threatening a customer with the police is not the best way to do business. In fact, I'd go and talk to the owner of the shop about that. Another thing I would do is contact an organization like the BBB if there is such a thing in Japan. I'd file a complaint on the shop for the treatment he got. I'd also not go back to that place ever again.

[Video-Link Japan]

Well, you're screwed whatever you do.

Another option is you could buy it and just try to sell it yourself to get some of the cash back. The thing is, he's a shop owner in the business and might have an easier time selling it.

Yahoo Auctions Bodyboards

You could also offer to pay for the whole thing up-front, explain how you have no use for it and ask him if he can sell it for you on consignment.

I searched around a few Japanese sites, and the only place I could find selling it has it priced at 47,000 Yen:

Three Waves 136 - 42.5 MALIGS PROGRAM LTD.

I'm wading into this one way late.. and it looks like things have gone beyond the 'reasonable' stage for both sides. Ultra made a good point awhile back and it still might be the best solution for all considered.

Maybe it would be worth one last try to take someone who you work with at the school to help mediate a mutually beneficial conclusion to this mess. If that board doesn't sell soon the season will be over, get the damn thing listed on Yahoo auctions and hope you can get close enough to the VIG on it to satisfy the shop owner and 'clear your name' at the same time.

Honor is worth more than money (not just in Japan) if you initiate what turns out to be an acceptable resolution, then just maybe, you will end up with a new friend and both have had a good lesson on 'doing business in Japan'. Of course the easy thing would be to walk away.. play the FG card etc., but it seems you know better. As I recall you said its not about the money anyway. If you make the extra-effort, I hope it works out ok in the end, if not at least you did everything possible. Good Luck.

[AssKissinger]

then just maybe, you will end up with a new friend

[Video-Link Japan]

then just maybe, you will end up with a new friend

Whats up AK.. too far fetched fer a 'country boy' to see these guys are both somewhat alike..?!? Both being surfers types and a little bit stubborn, don't tell me you've never gone tong & hammer with somebody that you ended up being friends with.

[Dog Man]

Don't back down from this prick mate. You ordered an apple and got a fucking lemon. I know the surf shop and the bloke (prick) you are talking about. Good news gets around fast on the beach. It is because of your problem that I was put on to this site.(Great site by the way) He is fucking with you. He is banking on your boss to make you pay for the board. I know about the shit he pulled yesterday at your office while you were not there. We are standing behind you mate. And we are just up the road. He is a want-a-be surfer boy fuck wit. DO NOT BACK DOWN!

[samuraiwig]

Anyone else suspect that 'kansaiboy' and 'dog man' might just have something in common...?

[kansaiboy]

ok...

I was a bit to harsh in some of my comments to a point to some members but comon, i am sounding off as well and dont always carefully examine my spelling....sorry if its annoying...but hey...thats me.....please learn to deal with it....those that cant...get fucked...!!!!!

There have been some really good posts today, and am glad i stayed out of it to see whats been put on the table...

I will be meeting with him, and my boss for lunch, in which time my boss and i will try to negotiate a settlement...of some kind.. now i wont be paying him the Y52,000. I am doing this mostly also cuz of my school and dont need the attention any longer...

The alternative if he says no is that he trys to have me arrested....

Its in his court...

Now, Booger Picker keeps mentioning the price...please let me restate for the record, It wasnt about price, its about getting a product i want for that price and i know that i can get such an item so much cheaper in the USA. It was me asking them to swap the board out for a different model, from the same distributor at the same price...eg, instead of model A that Y52,000 can I swap it for model B which is also Y52,000. The distrubutor told the store they cant exchange products for the store so he is stuck in between.... but he threatened me and thats just fucking wrong...


I did order another board from the USA, not the same or similar model, actually something totally different, cuz i was running out of time and the season is ending....this is the board i am refering to on my blog. BUT, The model causing the issues and the one we are talking about..u know the item listed above is actually limited edition and if he wasnt such a bastard would have probebly worked something out....

[kansaiboy]

Anyone else suspect that 'kansaiboy' and 'dog man' might just have something in common...?

Yeah like common fucking sense....!!!! ( did i spell fucking right..? )

[Jshop]

Hey guys,

It's not good him threatening you or anything. BUT you guys both made some mistakes organising the sale.

He obviously thought you genuinely were after the board, being the reason he ordered the board in. He did not ask you to leave a deposit, which he should have done - in Australia anyway.

It would be common courtesy to purchase the board if you SPECIAL order it in - UNLESS you can find a similar price IN THE SAME COUNTRY in which case you can bargain!

I run a vehicle parts business in Australia, and I ONLY take payments up front for special order parts (from Japan) no pay no order (thanks to customers that don't come through)! IF we go through Authorised distributors (Apexi, Blitz etc.) we normally have to pay a lot more for the product (meaning high costs for customer), then importing it parallel from our car yard in Japan (who buys some products retail!) BUT by going through the authorised distributor the customer will get better service in the future (warranty etc.) Something you should consider. You may not be aware of the Duty and Taxes that may be payable on the board when exporting/importing which can add together with freight can equal the price of the board itself!! EG - A good price for Apexi Turbo timers is $145 in Australia but Japan price is ONLY 6800 yen!

Cheers