BOBBY BYE-BYE! (Fischer deportation order issued)

[Taro Toporific]

Japan to deport Bobby Fischer
BBC / Tuesday, 24 August, 2004, 11:35 GMT 12:35 UK
Japan has decided to deport former world chess champion Bobby Fischer.
"A deportation order was issued today," said an immigration official, as the courts rejected Mr Fischer's latest attempt to prevent his departure...

[Marvin Feltcher]

The deportation may not happen for as much as a year.
We're way ahead of the pack with this story.
http://mdn.mainichi.co.jp/news/archive/200408/24/20040824p2a00m0dm014002c.html

[Captain Japan]

The deportation may not happen for as much as a year.
We're way ahead of the pack with this story.
http://mdn.mainichi.co.jp/news/archive/200408/24/20040824p2a00m0dm014002c.html

But Marvin, since you were so busy working, guess who were the only two "Australians" watching the Australia v. Japan baseball game at the Clubhouse?

Find the answer tomorrow on TBS TV between 7:30 and 8AM. :P

[same]

Hard for a simple man like me to imagine what the guy did wrong.
"Bobby Fischer, you have been convicted of playing chess. You will be taken from this place to another place. There you will become the pawn of queens. May God have mercy on your soul."

"Jenkins, you have been convicted of deserting your comrades in arms and fighting against your sovereign country for an oppressive and murderous regime. The court can think of no more fitting punishment than to reunite you with your daughters. And here's a little pocket money, my boy. Cheers"

[Marvin Feltcher]

Marvin, since you were so busy working, guess who were the only two "Australians" watching the Australia v. Japan baseball game at the Clubhouse?

I am so, so, so sorry about that....but not about the result!!! Go Aussies!!! That'll teach those cocky little buggers to stick the manager's uniform up in the dugout. Thank God for the Aussies at the Clubhouse. I hope they gave you a few free Crownies. Forget being Captain Japan, you're now General Oz! Guy Jean, you can now be Bloke Jean like a real Aussie! (I feel like the Wizard of Oz handing out cruddy gifts at the end of the yellow brick road). I look forward to the telly tomorrow morning!
In the meantime, I got to hear Fischer reply directly to one of my questions for the first time ever today as we were talking to the same person simultaneously on different phones. Pity the only thing he said was "no comment." The poor bugger is terrified. And it really is all just for playing a game of chess (with another guy who hasn't even be considered for charges, and rightfully so).
Shit...I:m a bit fired up tonight.

[Taro Toporific]

[Marvin Feltcher]

Reuters and now Bloomerg have updated their stories.
We reported hours ago that the order wouldn't be carried out, but don't get picked up by Google because our story is different from everybody else's...Google sounds like it operates on the same wavelength as most Japanese, who tend to practice their individuality as a group!

[amdg]

Up to a year? In detention? It doesn't make sense because I can't see how that helps anyone. Not japan, Not US, not Bobby certainly.

Marvin, what's the reason for the delayed deportation?

[Marvin Feltcher]

Lawyers.
There are so many avenues that can be pursued and I believe the defense team will try and take them all.
It seems as though they're up against both the U.S. and Japanese governments, though, so it will really be an uphill battle.

[Captain Japan]

Up to a year? In detention? It doesn't make sense because I can't see how that helps anyone. Not japan, Not US, not Bobby certainly.

Muneo Suzuki was in detention at least a year before he was released last year.

[amdg]

[omae mona]

Lawyers.
There are so many avenues that can be pursued and I believe the defense team will try and take them all.

What I don't understand is why. If faced with sitting in Japanese detention for a year or U.S. prison for a year, why choose Japan? Especially when he's going to end up in U.S. prison after that anyway.

At a minimum, isn't there a plain old open-and-shut tax evasion case against Fischer? If I recall, he's been bragging about not paying taxes since the 1980s, not to mention his 3 million buck windfall from the chess thing. If I didn't pay my taxes (on far less moolah than that, mind you) I don't think I would be that surprised to find the U.S. asking Japan to extradite me.

Speaking of which, anybody actually seen official U.S. statements or paperwork about why they asked for the extradition? I figured the U.N. sanctions violation is just icing on the cake... tax evasion's way more straightforward.

[maraboutslim]

Two questions:

one: will bobby really be deported to the usa, or will he convince them to simply send him back to the philipines or wherever he arrived from?

two: did jenkins really fight for the north koreans? or did he simply quit the damn army, walk north and live there in peace and quiet with some broad? what harm did he really do to the all-powerful usa?

[Marvin Feltcher]

There's some mystery about whether a warrant has been issued for tax evasion. A friend pointed me to this angle the other day and it really would seem to be the simplest angle for the U.S. to catch Fischer, particularly as he admitted in public to not having paid taxes since 1976.
It would certainly be a fairer charge than the one he is facing now.

[amdg]

Well, I'm not a tax lawyer, and even not an American, but I know that there are a lot of circumstances where you may be residing outside the US, but not beholden to pay US taxes.
Particularly if the said country has revoked your passport.

[omae mona]

There's some mystery about whether a warrant has been issued for tax evasion. A friend pointed me to this angle the other day and it really would seem to be the simplest angle for the U.S. to catch Fischer, particularly as he admitted in public to not having paid taxes since 1976.
It would certainly be a fairer charge than the one he is facing now.

Ah, thank you Marvin-san. I have been wondering about this the whole time. Especially for the extradition phase, I can't imagine why the U.S. wouldn't just go for the least controversial charge (namely, not paying taxes on at least 3 million bucks). Once they have him in their hands, they can throw anything they want at him.

But anyway, why do so many people think that the U.N./U.S. sanctions charge is baloney? Is it because they think the sanctions against Yugoslavia were unjust? Or that chess should have been excluded from the sanctions? Or that there shouldn't be penalties for people breaking internation sanctions in general?

[omae mona]

Well, I'm not a tax lawyer, and even not an American, but I know that there are a lot of circumstances where you may be residing outside the US, but not beholden to pay US taxes.
Particularly if the said country has revoked your passport.

The U.S. is one of the very few countries in the world that taxes worldwide income of its citizens. Doesn't matter where or how you earn it. They want a cut. Fischer made enough money (with plenty of publicity) to put him on their radar screen for sure. It ain't got nothing to do with passports... passport or not, he is a U.S. citizen. Not to mention the passport was revoked this year, I believe. We know a good chunk of his income is from 1992.

Pretty much the only way to get out of the IRS's jurisdiction (for any form of income) is to give up citizenship as I understand it. But guess what.. you have to do that BEFORE you earn the income. Fischer missed the mark by what, 28 years? You can't wait until you're busted.

Of course IANAL either.

[Marvin Feltcher]

Well, I'm not a tax lawyer, and even not an American, but I know that there are a lot of circumstances where you may be residing outside the US, but not beholden to pay US taxes.
Particularly if the said country has revoked your passport.

Me either, on both counts. My understanding, though, is that all Americans living overseas still have to file a U.S. tax return and they have to pay taxes on any income over about $70,000/year. (Help, Americans??? Kamome???)
Not having citizenship (which Fischer still has) may change the tax situation, but for taxable income earned outside the U.S. while still a U.S. citizen, having a passport or not would probably mean diddly squaat...I'm sure the taxman would still want the money.

[Caustic Saint]

Pretty much the only way to get out of the IRS's jurisdiction (for any form of income) is to give up citizenship as I understand it. But guess what.. you have to do that BEFORE you earn the income. Fischer missed the mark by what, 28 years? You can't wait until you're busted.

Of course IANAL either.

Nope. As long as your foreign income is less then $70,000 per year, you don't have to pay taxes on it.

[Marvin Feltcher]

Sorry, my previous post was late and not nearly as good a reply as omae mona's and caustic saint's.

why do so many people think that the U.N./U.S. sanctions charge is baloney?

He was playing chess! A board game! OK, and getting paid millions for it, but it was still a game. Nobody else who took part was charged.
Fischer actually argues (now) that he was making a political statement to play in Yugoslavia, which was then under U.N. sanctions. But he has been charged for "trading" in his services under a law targeting arms dealers. He's a tragic, sad old man filled with an incredible self-hate who, for a little while, inspired millions of people around the world and for a long time has mystified others. Despite his despicable political views, he should have the right to air them. Let him be. He has never hurt anybody and probably won't ever.
A bigger problem than the U.S. grand jury indictment, however, is the way machinations have worked to get him arrested and ever since then. There were several oppotunities to catch him in the past, so you've got to wonder why nobody acted until there was a need to justify bringing Jenkins into Japan and preventing him from being sent to the U.S. Jenkins can also be extradited on the charge facing him...Fischer can't because his charge only exists as a crime in the U.S.

[omae mona]

Pretty much the only way to get out of the IRS's jurisdiction (for any form of income) is to give up citizenship as I understand it.

Nope. As long as your foreign income is less then $70,000 per year, you don't have to pay taxes on it.

Caustic - good point, but that still doesn't put you out of the IRS's jurisdiction. Very specifically, you still have to file a tax return in order to claim the exclusion. It's not automatic.

Bobby-san sure as heck didn't file, nor was he under $70K anyway. Given his vocal anti-US positions, I doubt he even bothered to do something clever like set up some kind of tax-deferred annuity that would keep him under $70K. Sounds like he just put up a big (figurative) middle finger to the IRS. baka. Hope it made him feel better, though.

If I were him, I would have stuck to somewhere that didn't have any treaties with the U.S., like The Kingdom Of EnenKio

[omae mona]

Sorry, my previous post was late and not nearly as good a reply as omae mona's and caustic saint's.

why do so many people think that the U.N./U.S. sanctions charge is baloney?

He was playing chess! A board game! OK, and getting paid millions for it, but it was still a game.

OK, so we're saying chess should not have been covered by the sanctions. I can buy that.. it seems sort of silly. OTOH the match sponsor, Jezdimir Vasiljevic, was apparently a Slobodan Milosevic crony, so one can see the angle that this match was not entirely unrelated to the core issues behind the sanctions (article)

Nobody else who took part was charged.

True, but who else was there but Spassky? U.S. can't charge a Russian citizen. Incidentally...

Spassky wants U.S. jail with Fischer
Washington, DC, Aug. 12 (UPI)

Russian-born chess champion Boris Spassky has told U.S. President George Bush he'd like to go to jail with dissident Bobby Fischer -- with a chess set.
...
"Bobby and myself committed the same crime," Spassky wrote. "Put sanctions against me also. Arrest me. And put me in the same cell with Bobby Fischer. And give us a chess set."

[maraboutslim]

Very specifically, you still have to file a tax return in order to claim the exclusion. It's not automatic.

If there is a statute of limitations, I'll admit that I stopped filing somewhere along the line of my life in Japan. My father and cpa didn't seem that alarmed about it and he was about as straight an arrow as you can imagine an accountant to be. when i returned to california and started paying as normal, no one said a word.

On the other hand, if there is no statute of limitations on not filing taxes, then the last few sentences were just a joke. got it irs?

[yakinoumiso]

Technically I think there is a statute of limitations. Probably seven years, though I've also heard 5. Having said that, it's a moot point. Fisher was charged with a crime, and once charged I don't think a statute of limitations applies. Anyway, that evasion becomes a self renewing charge so they'll have a way get him anyway. He'll be liable for a new amount including interest and penalties every year.

Maraboutslim, the statute of limitations would apply in your friend's case, assuming the IRS didn't catch him. After 5 or 7 years, they can't go back looking for the income tax he should have paid while abroad. Moreover, the IRS closed their Japan office this year, which makes it more costly to track down those back taxes. So, I find it hard to believe they would concern themselves with someone making something under a high six figure salary back in the states.

Oh, it's my first post on the board. Hi.

[Captain Japan]

Thank God for the Aussies at the Clubhouse. I hope they gave you a few free Crownies. Forget being Captain Japan, you're now General Oz! Guy Jean, you can now be Bloke Jean like a real Aussie! (I feel like the Wizard of Oz handing out cruddy gifts at the end of the yellow brick road). I look forward to the telly tomorrow morning!

We got cut! They showed some salaryman flunkies drowning their sorrows in a Shinbashi izakaya instead.

[Taro Toporific]

[yakinoumiso]

Yeah, I guess I screwed the pooch...

In my defense, there is a statute of limitations for errors in your tax returns, and even for delinquent taxes. So, I assumed it applied to skipped returns as well, provided you you started filing them again. Which, of course, wouldn't have made BF any less fucked...maybe he should have tried for bona fide status.

http://www.irs.gov/individuals/article/0,,id=97478,00.html

Section 3461

B. Background: Section 6501 of the Internal Revenue Code generally provides that the Service has three years from the date a return is filed to assess additional taxes. Section 6502 generally provides that the Service has ten years from the date of assessment to collect the tax. ...

[kamome]

Very specifically, you still have to file a tax return in order to claim the exclusion. It's not automatic.

If there is a statute of limitations, I'll admit that I stopped filing somewhere along the line of my life in Japan. My father and cpa didn't seem that alarmed about it and he was about as straight an arrow as you can imagine an accountant to be. when i returned to california and started paying as normal, no one said a word.

On the other hand, if there is no statute of limitations on not filing taxes, then the last few sentences were just a joke. got it irs?

Yes, you should file the return every year, regardless of whether you need to pay taxes or not. But were you earning less than the threshold for the foreign earned income exclusion? And had no U.S.-source income at all?

If you were earning salary below the minimum threshold and had no U.S. source income, there should be nothing for which the IRS can penalize you. By the way, some people here have said that $70,000 is the threshold, although I think that number may be a little higher now.

[Big Booger]

I haven't filed a single return since I've been in Japan.. but then I make well under the threshold.

[kamome]

I haven't filed a single return since I've been in Japan.. but then I make well under the threshold.

Get ready for the IRS to audit you for that $0.43 of back taxes that you owe.