Over a third of Japanese University students wish to flee

[cstaylor]

Brain drain fears rise as students look abroad

While the urge to study at prestigious Japanese universities remains as strong as ever, many students preparing to enter university feel they would be better served by learning at a Western institution, the survey by Sundai, the operator of a nationwide chain of preparatory schools, showed.

And the best quote:

One student said they preferred the West because "both the standard and quality of education in Japanese universities is the pits."

[gaijinzilla]

Yeah, then once they (the students) get overseas they get the shock of their young lives as reality kicks them, swiftly, in their rear ends regarding something called....studying and passing grades then they can't wait to get back to Japan (& daddy's & mommy's cash..and white rice & miso soup and...)

[Crispy]

So Japanese universities are losing students to western ones, eh? Sounds like the perfect time for Japanese universities to up their standards. Competition is good...

[kamome]

Yeah, then once they (the students) get overseas they get the shock of their young lives as reality kicks them, swiftly, in their rear ends regarding something called....studying and passing grades then they can't wait to get back to Japan (& daddy's & mommy's cash..and white rice & miso soup and...)

Not only that, those exchange students find out that it takes independence and self-confidence to survive in the West--two qualities that are lacking in many Japanese. After getting their ass kicked for a couple years in the States or wherever, most of those Japanese turn into completely different people.

[ronin juku]

they come back and have to face life here

[ronin juku]

they come back and have to face life here

[Crispy]

Independence and self confidence are valued in the West, (in America anyway) but that doesn't mean everyone has it. Ideals =/= reality.

[cstaylor]

I really don't want to post this and suffer all the hate I will get. I'm just a visitor, however there is a thin line between being frustrated by life as a gajin in Japan and making broad racial smears.

I think the very fact that over a third of the respondants want to live in the west shows strong individual will in young Japanese... it's too bad that they would rather run away than change the system that pushes them down.

[kamome]

it takes independence and self-confidence to survive in the West

That is such a myth!!! The great majority of people in the West are far from independent and are not exactly brimming with self-confidence. Maybe the myth came about because those qualitiies - to a certain degree - are valued in the West.

The other side of the coin is that, in reality, the Japanese have as much self-confidence as any other people. And Japanese have been surviving successfully in the West for decades.

I don't know where you're getting that from. Compare the average Westerner with the average Japanese and there is a noticeable difference in confidence levels. Even the Japanese themselves admit to it. Independence and self-confidence are highly valued in the West. How do you dispute that?

[GomiGirl]

Broad generalisations are a dangerous way to describe a culture, race, group, whatever. It is not fair on the people you are talking about - nor does it show cultural sensitivity.

Personally I hate to be put into a category with certain characteristics assumed about me as they are usually false.

Sure it is difficult to see everybody as an individual, however to put everybody into a nice little box is sheer laziness.

It is a sort of laziness which breeds ignorance and contempt...

[kamome]

Broad generalisations are a dangerous way to describe a culture, race, group, whatever. It is not fair on the people you are talking about - nor does it show cultural sensitivity.

Personally I hate to be put into a category with certain characteristics assumed about me as they are usually false.

Sure it is difficult to see everybody as an individual, however to put everybody into a nice little box is sheer laziness.

It is a sort of laziness which breeds ignorance and contempt...

I was discussing averages in my post above, which of course leaves room for individual differences and exceptions. And I don't think it's necessarily wrong in all cases to make generalizations that are based on a kernel of truth as long as one recognizes and acknowledges the exceptions, and of course as long as there is no malicious intent behind it.

Anyway, compare these two generalizations: 1) Westerners on the whole are more confident than Japanese. 2) Japanese on a whole are more confident than Westerners. Which sounds more true? I would say number 1. P-O-V seems to say that number 2 is more true, which I think is a hard argument to make.

[GomiGirl]

And I don't think it's necessarily wrong in all cases to make generalizations that are based on a kernel of truth as long as one recognizes and acknowledges the exceptions, and of course as long as there is no malicious intent behind it.

Sure I accept that generalisations simplify the world - but if the scope is too broad and the groups are too large then you are oversimplifying complicated issues which leads to unfair stereotypes etc.. for example - "Blondes have more fun." is way too broad a statement...

The danger of malicious-ness comes when people use these stereotypes to pre-judge a person they know nothing about.

Anyway, compare these two generalizations:

I think the argument is moot based on the points above. There are too many exceptions to have any sort of true statistical correlation.

If you want to suggest that young students who have expressed a desire to study overseas have more confidence then say, the students who don't want to study overseas.. I would think you are correct. I would also go so far to say that this is not limited to Japanese students but students of any nationality.

In any case, all of these generalisations are based on personal opinions about a particuar group and expressing them is fine and your right as long as you don't mind somebody putting up their opinion which may be different...

[kamome]

Sure I accept that generalisations simplify the world

I never said that. I just said that making a generalization about a group is not necessarily a bad thing. You seem to be saying that it is always a bad thing if it is a generalization about a large group. I disagree with that for the reasons I stated above.

The danger of malicious-ness comes when people use these stereotypes to pre-judge a person they know nothing about.

That's not exactly correct. Stereotypes are malicious because they are usually made with prejudicial intent. Generalizations are different from stereotypes because they lack that prejudicial intent. It follows that my generalization about the Japanese was not a stereotype, since it was not made with a prejudicial intent. Therefore, it wasn't malicious.

The knee-jerk reaction is to confuse generalizations with stereotypes because they sound similar, but since the latter usually involves prejudical intent, it's important to articulate the distinction.

Anyway, compare these two generalizations:

I think the argument is moot based on the points above. There are too many exceptions to have any sort of true statistical correlation.

That's dodging the issue. I asked in essence whether P-O-V or I made a more reasonable generalization. Besides, the question is not about statistical correlations, it's about your gut feeling. That's why it's called a generalization in the first place. Maybe it makes people uncomfortable to acknowledge their gut feeling on a particular issue due to misplaced feelings of guilt or the confusion with stereotyping or whatever. It's strange that I find myself on the defense here, considering that people make generalizations in this forum all the time without being called on it.

[mercutio]

It's strange that I find myself on the defense here, considering that people make generalizations in this forum all the time without being called on it.

arg!! another evil generalization!! Kamome! will you never learn

Actually, I've got your back on this one. There is nothing inherently wrong with generalizations as long as people keep in mind that they are just "generalizations"....ie. something that is "generally true" and not a rule/law/gospel/etc.

Generaliations are useful in that they allow us to process information and make decisions faster. Decisions that are "generally" correct but we just have to be able to re-examine them when they arent. For example: In general it means someone is happy when they smile. That is one peice on information we dont have to spend time analizing most of the time. SOMETIMES however a smile can be part of a grimace and the person could be angry, crying, faking it.

[GomiGirl]

Oopps - I didn't mean to point the finger at anyone in particular on this forum about this or jump down anyone's throats.

I _know_ I am way too sensitive about this but I have lived with the negative aspects of being pre-judged due to "what is generally known/thought/assumed" all my life. I spend so much time working around this just to get to a neutral start point.

I guess there is added frustration here as there is also the _added_ stigma of a white foreign female in Japan and it is from all sides - locals and to a different degree the foreign male community - certain assumptions and unfair comparisons are made. I _can_ deal with it but it just gets real old and boring to hear the same old negative, unfair, mostly inaccurate opinions on a regular basis. Sure it is mainly from small minded people but I just can't stand by quietly to let the myths perpetuate.

Please walk a mile in my stilettos and perhaps you can understand how what may, at first, seem a harmless generalisation can lead to negative, inaccurate assumptions and a guilty until proven innocent situation.

I can cetainly appreciate that there is no malicious intent, but it is a fact of life and human nature, that generalisations do quickly become the rule in people's heads if that statement is repeated often enough. Opinions become facts very quickly...

Enough ranting - I am not usually a whinger - but I m very sensitive when I hear people making arbitrary assumptions about large groups of people.

Pidgeon holes are for the birds.... not people.

[kamome]

Mercutio, you rock!

Anyway...

I can cetainly appreciate that there is no malicious intent, but it is a fact of life and human nature, that generalisations do quickly become the rule in people's heads if that statement is repeated often enough. Opinions become facts very quickly...

Gomigirl, you're very right about that. We gaijin do suffer from generalizations all too often, so there can be a negative effect. However, I don't think my particular generalization would yield such negative repercussions.

Fin.