Coping with inane opinions about westerners?

[prancer]

Hello. I need some opinions here. Please excuse me while I whine.

My goal: to keep my sanity, to maintain my sense of humor, to increase my patience when dealing with stuff like this:


I have an adult conversation class where 3/4 of the students usually arrive late. In the meantime, I have ONE student who arrives early and discusses a variety of bizarre topics with me for about 20 minutes.

Please understand this is not a commentary on "the Japanese". It's just "this guy". He's the only one. He never brings his crazy s**t up once the other students arrive, most likely for good reason. I don't want to argue with him. I don't need to "prove" him wrong. All I want to do is figure out how to adjust my thinking so he isn't able to drive me crazy anymore. Arguing with him is out of the question, as I don't want him saying anything unflattering to my boss about me. I just want to figure out some way of internally handling him so he doesn't annoy me anymore.

Here are the topics of the past three weeks.

1. The reason caucasians can't use chopsticks is because our hands are not as highly evolved as Asian hands. This was a lengthy lecture involving many amateur evolutionary biology theories.

2. Little boys in America have breasts and hips because of female hormones in beef. When I told him I hadn't seen a little boy with breasts, he got offended and told me it was a very well-established fact, and went on and on about little-boy breasts. FOR WAY TOO LONG.

3. All Americans are rich, and don't have to work because of the abundance of natural resources that are there for the taking. When I mentioned (softly, not in an argumentative tone of voice) that some Americans were not rich, he grew defiant and told me "I have been to America SIX TIMES"....and proceeded to tell me that there were limosines everywhere, and that there was no litter in the streets, that everyone can afford college, and that every American can receive state-of-the art health care for free.

Today when he went on I just listened and nodded and dreamed of the can of beer I would buy on the way home. But he is slowly driving me more and more crazy, and my ability to not argue with him is slowly chipping away.

Anyway, I feel better now, so thanks for reading this. If any of you have similar stories to share and can commiserate with me, I'd appreciate it. And if you can tell me how to keep my sense of humor around this guy, I'd like that too.

Rant is over. Thanks for listening.

[same]

Laugh.
Laugh as if you're really enjoying his comic story.
He can't complain about you, 'cause you're genki.

You will also leave him bursting with frustration because you're not taking him seriously and he knows he can't complain.

BTW the collecting of Japanese physical differences is a national(istic) sport here. Every English school has an old bugger who thinks it would be interesting for the gaijin to improve themselves at the hands of this field of "study".

[chiwawa]

What pitty. I am so sad that Japanese man is not kindly to you all. I want all Japanese to be kindly with foriegner so all foriegner is kindly with Japanese. Everyone should be kindly so we can make a peace in the earth.

[Andocrates]

Turn his arguments around and just have fun with him. Tell him chopsticks evolved because asians ate on the ground they would grap a stick to pierce stuff. Crap like that.

[tatsujin]

Prancer,

I'll tell you a better one - I was speaking to a Japanese language student who came over here to Ireland. They saw a famous movie from here called "Into the west" - a movie about travellers (pikies in UK, dunno what you call them in US) and their relationship with horses.

Because of the way the movie was played out, they asked me where were all the horses! They thought horses roamed the streets freely!

He couldn't believe we were so civilised. Although we did live up to the happy drunk stereotype...For a skinny guy he could drink a lot of Murphy's!

[Socratesabroad]

Well, prancer, I thought I might give you a little ammunition for your next encounter.

1. The reason caucasians can't use chopsticks is because our hands are not as highly evolved as Asian hands.

You could always ask him if being more evolved is so much better since chopstick use can lead to arthritis of the hands...
http://my.webmd.com/content/article/75/ ... ectedguid={5FE84E90-BC77-4056-A91C-9531713CA348}

2. Little boys in America have breasts and hips because of female hormones in beef.

So I guess 30% of Japanese little boys have the same problems since as of Dec. 2003

Approximately 30% of all beef consumed in Japan is produced in the United States.

http://www.jiac.or.jp/agrinfo/0404_3_4.html
And we won't even go into the remaining amount produced by the Aussies that Japan imports...

3. All Americans are rich, and don't have to work because of the abundance of natural resources that are there for the taking.

Well, you could go to one extreme...

Americans are rich because they work hard, respect property and engage in free trade.

http://www.igreens.org.uk/america_did_not_deserve_this.htm

or the other...

America has eight million people with no job, 40 million individuals with no health insurance, 35 million living below the poverty line, and a population that exists mainly on junk food.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1185387,00.html

The situation's so bad, Americans are shrinking...

Poverty and poor diet mean the average US man is getting smaller

And my favorite bit is from a message board I ran across...

"I watched "COPS" on sky perfect last week...those americans didnt look too afluent"

[Taro Toporific]

... every American can receive state-of-the art health care for free.

Today when he went on I just listened and nodded and dreamed of the can of beer I would buy on the way home. But he is slowly driving me more and more crazy, and my ability to not argue with him is slowly chipping away

Ah, you're a kinder person than me since I would ha killed him after the free health care comment.

Ya gotta remember that many-- if not MOST-- adult students here in Japan are not buying an English lessom, they're buying a "friend." Every class has a few kimoi krazies.

[cstaylor]

I have an adult conversation class where 3/4 of the students usually arrive late. In the meantime, I have ONE student who arrives early and discusses a variety of bizarre topics with me for about 20 minutes.

This is why I don't teach people.

[canman]

I taught at an eikaiwa for a long time, until I opened my own school, and you will always have a nutter like that. I had a private student who was a truck driver, who was convinced that Jesus was an alien, when he visited St. Peters in Rome a statue nodded to him. He was always sprouting conspiracy theories about the masons and the pope ruling the US. I taught(endured) this guy for three years. I just listened laughed blew it off, sometimes fanticized about my cute students. I begged my manager not to renew him, but hey a contract was a contract. But I think I survived ok. Take it with a grain of salt.
Also why don't you ask some of the other students to try and come on time, or shift the lesson to a latter time so they can all attend at the same time. Good luck.

[gaijinzilla]

you could always:
(1) have the student moved to another class with another teacher under the guise of "level up" (or down):wink:
(2) you could hide out until the start of your class (used to use this trick quite a bit when I worked for G**S)
or if none of the above is applicable or feasible you could always buy a couple of ear plugs and just fake listening while you think about

[prancer]

Thanks everyone.

Canman, I moved the class to a later time two months ago. The late people simply come late at the new time. Nutter comes earlier. I used to spend about an hour before this class in the classroom preparing for other classes, but now nutjob came earlier and earlier until one day he was a whopping 40 minutes early. Since that day, I don't enter the building until one minute before class. He is always there waiting for me.

Taro Toporific: I wanted to kill him. But if I try to argue with him, he just gets a look on his face like somebody shot his dog and then pounds his argument into the ground. Man, I thought people in Japan didn't share their opinions. I thought they didn't like arguing. Somebody told me that once, anyway.

You're spot on about him wanting a friend. I can tell the other students don't like him very much.I've considered bringing up the things he talks about with the rest of the class as they come in "sooo, nutjob here was just telling me about the voluptuous breasts and girlish hips of little boys in America. Did any of you see anything like that when you were in the States?"

Chiwawa: no worries. The rest of my students are all kindly to me. This man is the only one I am having this problem with.

Same: I giggled at him once. He looked hurt and then pounded his arguement into the ground.

Seriously, what are some of the mental gymnastics you all perform to keep people like this from getting on your nerves? The real problem is that he puts me in a cranky mood before the rest of my students arrive.
When he brought up the racial stuff about caucasian hands, I just thought "oh sure, I've got an uncle just like you in Louisiana." and imagined him going on the Jerry Springer show. It wasn't so hard to take.

But yesterday was really the living end. I fanstasized about bringing in articles about some of the worst ghettos in America, or stuff that would contradict his beliefs, but why make the rest of the class read stuff that isn't entertaining? If he's really like my crazy uncle in Louisiana, I'm not going to change him. He's probably as set in his beliefs as a Rush Limbaugh fan.

Then I though about agreeing with him and telling him crazy stuff - "yes, the natural resources are great. All of my friends have oil wells in their backyards. Sometimes we find diamonds in the garden." But he would just repeat this stuff to my boss and my boss would kill me.

Sometimes it works to just talk endlessly about my weekend or something so he can't get a word in, but as soon as I stop - he changes the subject to his wacky stuff.

I agree with whoever said I just have to "take it with a grain of salt", but seriously, HOW do I do that? How I get to the point where I can just listen to him with distanced amusement? How do I get to the level where I can feel compassion for his ignorance and not let him get to me? Because I really need to get there a little faster, before one day I break down and say something unforgiveable.



Thanks everybody.

Oh, Tastujin: thanks for sharing that story about being asked "where are the horses". It made me feel better. I'd love to hear more stories like this.

[kurohinge1]

... If he's really like my crazy uncle in Louisiana, I'm not going to change him. He's probably as set in his beliefs as a Rush Limbaugh fan ...

You've hit the nail on the head. You won't fix him, so don't try - you'll only get more frustrated.

... Then I though about agreeing with him and telling him crazy stuff - "yes, the natural resources are great. All of my friends have oil wells in their backyards. Sometimes we find diamonds in the garden." But he would just repeat this stuff to my boss and my boss would kill me ...

Personally, that would be my tactic - have some fun. Just ignore what you can but where you see an avenue for being creative and having a bit of fun, go nuts. Just phrase it in terms of "maybe this ..." and "perhaps that ..." so it doesn't sound like you're trying to pass bizarre stuff off as fact, and your boss shouldn't get phased, even if he does find out.

If he harps on about little US boys having breasts, appear to absord that and suggest that maybe he could make a fortune by opening a bra factory for little boys.

If he starts up about gaijin being not as evolved, etc. tell him about this theory you read that says all humans were genetically evolved by aliens from monkeys and speculate about how and why they might've done that.

Either you'll tickle your creative side and no longer be as annoyed by him, and/or he'll think your crazy and stop coming early or at all.

[GargoyleTS]

If I knew you better, I'd offer you a hug, but I don't, so you get advice instead. If you can't take Kuro's advice about amusing yourself with him, try posting these fun stories at Let's Japan. (just pick a different name if you want to keep the boards separate, cause honestly, LJ has some real nutters sometimes) http://www.letsjapan.org is a board dedicated to the nightmare known as Eikaiwa. Trade stories with tons of folks who are in the exact same boat and ask them how to get a handle on it. Read some of their nightmares and get a laugh or 3! The only real way to deal with this situation is to either ignore it or laugh about it, and ignoring it will drive you nuts!

While there be careful about giving out any info as to who you are or who you work for. Just safer that way and most of those who are "outed" have either left Japan or changed employers.

Laughter is the Keeper of Sanity, and it's run away with mine, let it take yours too! ^_^

[GargoyleTS]

That's what I get for not checking my Eikaiwa sites for 3 months at a time. Wish they had chosen more mods, might have kept it going. Last I checked it was still just the owners and 1 moderator. *sigh* Hope they come back up soon. You can still browse the site though, and they still take story submissions via email. There is some stuff there to give you a laugh and to make you cry.

Friday, July 9 at 11pm will mark the end of the LJ forums. Chris and I have decided to close them down.

We started LJ in 1999 and the site has grown from a wee little freebie homepage on Geocities to the mighty powerhouse it is today.
As proud of the site as we are, the forums have consumed our lives. We don't have the time and energy to moderate crackpots and manage things. I hope you guys understand. We need a break.

LJ will still be up, and we'll still be reachable via e-mail so there always the possiblity that the forums will return in the future afer we've recharged our batteries.

Thanks for writing and making the forums the place to come to.

[prancer]

If I knew you better, I'd offer you a hug, but I don't, so you get advice instead. If you can't take Kuro's advice about amusing yourself with him, try posting these fun stories at Let's Japan. (just pick a different name if you want to keep the boards separate, cause honestly, LJ has some real nutters sometimes) http://www.letsjapan.org is a board dedicated to the nightmare known as Eikaiwa. Trade stories with tons of folks who are in the exact same boat and ask them how to get a handle on it. Read some of their nightmares and get a laugh or 3! The only real way to deal with this situation is to either ignore it or laugh about it, and ignoring it will drive you nuts!

While there be careful about giving out any info as to who you are or who you work for. Just safer that way and most of those who are "outed" have either left Japan or changed employers.

Laughter is the Keeper of Sanity, and it's run away with mine, let it take yours too! ^_^

Thanks, that's good advice.
I've been careful, but not too careful, about hiding my identity. Of course I'm never going to post the name of my school.
The reason I come on the internet to talk about these things is because I'm afraid to talk about these things with the teachers I know in real life. Some of them seem waaay too eager to put other people down. I can absolutely see some of them, if I were to relate this story to them, going around telling people things like "she's having problems getting along with her students" or "she thinks J people are all crazy", etc. Ugh. I could start a whole thread on this topic, but I'll take it to another board. I'll probably pretend to be a man there while I'm at it. Sheesh, why are esl teachers so nasty to one another?

BTW, I want to say I like this board. It is remarkably free from the stuff that irritates me about other gaijin boards. Maybe it's because not everybody here is a first-year teacher?

[kamome]

The only mental gymnastics I do to cope with nutcases is: to accept the fact that you can't change their mind, to not take it too personally, and most of all, to not care what his opinion is because you know it's worth nothing and that it's an aberration.

I also feel happy to know that I don't need to feel accepted by the Japanese. They can be colleagues or sometimes friends (to a point), but you have to be comfortable with your own identity and view him as a meaningless joke.

I also think you did the right thing by minimizing contact with him. Don't let yourself get into a room with him alone. If you happen to like a particular student, maybe you should try to coordinate with that student so that the two of you walk into classroom together. Since the wacko seems to quiet down when other students are present, this might save you some aggravation.

[canman]

With the owner. You seem to fear the students going to the owner. I say let them, if you start to out wacko this guy, and then he goes running to the owner, tell him the truth, and take it from their. Again I understand that you don't want to cause trouble, and yes there are those teachers who feel they are Mother Teresa and have never had a bad student or class so you must be crap, I've know those people too. Its too bad you just can't sit and laugh about it with your friends or co-workers. I was really lucky to have a couple of good co-workers who didn't care if we slagged our students off. Hell it was expected. A great way to release tension and anxiety. But for now, you can keep us entertained by telling us what happened to you. Take it easy.

[prancer]

With the owner. You seem to fear the students going to the owner. I say let them, if you start to out wacko this guy, and then he goes running to the owner, tell him the truth, and take it from their. Again I understand that you don't want to cause trouble, and yes there are those teachers who feel they are Mother Teresa and have never had a bad student or class so you must be crap, I've know those people too. Its too bad you just can't sit and laugh about it with your friends or co-workers. I was really lucky to have a couple of good co-workers who didn't care if we slagged our students off. Hell it was expected. A great way to release tension and anxiety. But for now, you can keep us entertained by telling us what happened to you. Take it easy.

My boss rocks, I'm serious.I really lucked out. But he doesn't watch my classes, so if he heard some negative stuff through the grapevine about me, he wouldn't know what to believe. I'm just being cautious.

Thanks for your encouragement though. if this wacko guy was some stranger in a bar, I'd have a great time out-wacko-ing him. I'm glad you said you find my story entertaining. It makes me feel like I'm not just whining.
I'll keep you posted. Thanks.

[Big Booger]

Next time the wacko is in the class by himself, don't respond. Don't even make eye contact.. act like he's not in the room. The more you engage in his weird questions and comments, the more he will discuss it.

Tell him you will wait until everyone is in the room, before the lesson begins.

You ever think that maybe everyone is late because of this guy?

That or just agree with everything he says. If he says westerners smell funny, agree.. take it over the top... like, Yeah they all stink.. smell like horse shit if you ask me.. Even I stink.. wanna smell?

Whatever he says, just agree with it.. and take it way over the top.. he'll either get the hint, or your conversations will be very short.

[same]

prancer, if this stuff really gets to you and you can't laugh it off, your only option is not to enter the classroom until the lesson starts, and if he's alone, pull out your prepared sheet of questions/exercises and proceed with the lesson. Don't give him a chance to get his opinions in. If you're going to stay in eikaiwa, though, you're going to have to cultivate a pachyderm-like skin, or a very good way to laugh about it. These freaks are the bread and butter of the big schools.

[prancer]

If you're going to stay in eikaiwa, though, you're going to have to cultivate a pachyderm-like skin, or a very good way to laugh about it.

YES!! Yes, I know. That's exactly what I need. But how, please tell me, HOW do I do this? Does it have to be developed over time? I kind of posted this thread in the hopes of getting a crash course.

What do I have to do? If I have to change some things about my internal ways of thinking, so be it, but...change it to what? Can you recommend a philosopher or a book? Please, tell me your stories, give me your experience and wisdom. I'm all ears.

I'm down to do anything that doesn't involve going to church.

[same]

Ever had an aged relative, preferably one with outdated views, racist attitudes and some senility thrown in? You had to visit this aunt or uncle because it was your duty. Those three hours were hell but had to be endured, and you weren't allowed to call bullshit because it was a relative, and too old to change. It's just like that, isn't it. That's eikaiwa for you.

Think of it logically:
1. Person's an asshole.
2. I can't change person.
3. Person's views are generalised, so not about me personally.
4. I don't take views personally.

Think of it developmentally:
1. I want to be a good, fair teacher.
2. Wherever I teach there will be assholes.
3. Here's an asshole.
4. Good practice for me to stay calm and fair.

Think of it financially:
1. Asshole pays school to expound racist views.
2. School pays me to listen to racist views.
3. I get money.
4. Asshole loses money.

Think of it detachedly:
1. I like to study people in a democratic way.
2. Here's an example of an eccentric.
3. Record all weird conversations with eccentric.
4. My Book On Japan!

Whatever you do "STAY CALM!!!"

[Cobra]

man this reminds me of when I use to teach English. Hell there were a heap of freaks. Its amazing how many freak the Eikawa attracts.
unbelievable.
Thank God I dont teach anymore. And never will.............

[AssKissinger]

I'm glad when a nutter joins. Anything to break up the monotony. But if I don't like a student I just make him feel bad until he quits the class. The whole thing is about keeping the numbers up, not about keeping one student. Japanese managers almost always won't dis a student but it's not a business decision. They just don't have the sac to do it. As long as you keep your overall numbers up it's cool to edge certain students out. Experienced teachers do it all the time.

[Cobra]

I'm glad when a nutter joins. Anything to break up the monotony. But if I don't like a student I just make him feel bad until he quits the class. The whole thing is about keeping the numbers up, not about keeping one student. Japanese managers almost always won't dis a student but it's not a business decision. They just don't have the sac to do it. As long as you keep your overall numbers up it's cool to edge certain students out. Experienced teachers do it all the time.

I agree with the points you made asskissinger. However sometimes these "freaks" can and will go make a complaint. Infact this happened to me sometimes (well only a couple times) but happen to my mates quite often no matter how much they tried to satisfy. The owner of the school was a real prick. He would never listen to the other half of the story.
Also at the school I worked they would get the saleperson to go in after class with a piece of paper for them to tick the boxs of the quality of the class from 1-5....or something like that. If somone doesnt like you for whatever reason and if you dont ass kiss EVERYONE they will always give you a bad score.
terrible.
I really feel sorry for the teachers that work there now.

[Caustic Saint]

The flame war has been moved to Beyond Fucked. This is a good topic on how to handle troublesome students, so let's keep it on topic and leave the squabbling where it belongs - in BF or in PMs.

[Cobra]

The flame war has been moved to Beyond Fucked. This is a good topic on how to handle troublesome students, so let's keep it on topic and leave the squabbling where it belongs - in BF or in PMs.

I agree. This is an interesting topic cause it affects most of us. I dont know why (apart from my rather blunt opinion on world affairs) ...

[Mod edit. Don't push it dude. If you want to slag on somebody, take it to the flame war in Beyond Fucked or send him a PM.]

[prancer]

Here's an update.

I decided recently that I couldn't stand this guy anymore. The 10-15 minutes it takes for the second student to arrive to class is just excruciating. It makes me grumpy.

So I've been using up the first 5-7 minutes or so by acting as though I have to get my materials for class in order, and talking to myself as I do so. I hand him a worksheet to look at while I do this. Then when he starts talking, I interupt him, not talking to him, but to myself "oh I have to look this word up in the dictionary let me see..." (get dictionary, write word on board).

After 7 minutes or so, I figure it's getting a little risky to continue, so I have to give him my attention. Yesterday he started telling me about how much free time I had, in contrast to him, who was so busy. I'm really sick of him telling me what MY life is like, what I am like. I've come to realize he does this because he is a loner who has no life and no friends - he has nothing to talk about.

So I just started giggling at him when he was in mid-sentence, acted disinterested, and changed the subject to current events (N. Korea, volcano) whenever he would finish a sentence. He always changes the subject back to statements about me and Americans, and I just say something else about whatever I have been talking about as if I hadn't heard him.

Then when the next student walks in, I act like whatever they say is the most interesting thing I have ever heard, and act delighted to see them. I talk to them excitedly while ignoring nutter.

It's been working so far. Slowly the nutty things he says are decreasing.


I got a bit of satisfaction yesterday when another student told me they had seen Farenheit 911, and started talking about how many of the Americans who were in Iraq had only joined the military because they were poor and had few options. I was delighted, and seized on this as an opportunity to talk with the class about how poor so many Americans were, can't afford college, can't afford health care, etc, and joining the military is the only way any of them will get to see many of these things. Nutter was silent during this entire conversation. I said nothing to him like "nutter, what do you think of this?" I did not invite him to join the conversation at all.

I hope continuing on like this will help to shut him up even further. Maybe he will even start coming late. I hope so.

By the way, whoever suggested that the reason the other students come late might be because of nutter, you were correct. I'm convinced that he IS the reason they come late because of a lot of little instances I've observed in the past, and also because they look so much happier when I don't make overtures to him to involve him in discussion such as "Nutter, what do you think, etc.) I've decided that the less he talks the happier they are, and that I owe it to the other students to cow him a bit. I don't feel guilty about not listening to his crap anymore.

If anyone has any suggestions as to other ways I can do this subtly, please let me know. Thanks.

[silverfall]

Instead of letting him choose the topic try doing a little research before class to give him a subject. Current events or something to keep him busy. Also learn what things get him going so you can avoid giving him an opening. Try to limit his talking time if you can.

I have a couple students that sound like yours. One of them cannot be put in a class with women because of some of his comments. We have to be very careful about topics but he always manages to slip in a few really nast comments per lesson. He also has a habit of breaking out the cell phone in the middle of class to answer calls.

He is one of the few students I can say that I hate. Some are annoying but have some redeeming qualities. That one is bad though. I guess you gotta take the good with the bad. Can't forget about those girls that walk in and make your jaw drop. They are the reason for going to work!

[cstaylor]