Herpes looking like lunar lander, squid & 6-leg spider

[Taro Toporific]

High-tech film shows virus going in for kill
Globetechnology.com, Canada - 8 Sept--Using a creature as hideous as any big-screen sci-fi monster, scientists have produced a one-minute horror movie starring a menacing, spidery virus swooping in on a hapless blob of bacteria....
...researchers in Russia and Japan collaborated on the project, which arose from thousands of high-resolution photographs obtained with two imaging methods -- electron microscope photographs of frozen viruses and X-ray crystallography, which gives three-dimensional pictures at the atomic scale.
Now available on the Internet,the movie opens with a virus looking like part lunar lander, squid and six-legged spider homing in on the E. coli. This attacker is a common bacteria-infecting virus called bacteriophage T4 that's related to herpes viruses.

[GuyJean]

High-tech film shows virus going in for kill

I'll never look at the Roppongi Hills spider the same...


Coincidence this is in Roppongi?

GJ

[Skankster]

-
-
amazing that you noticed that coincidence. I hate that roppongi hills spider.


That movie cannot be correct tho.
a virus is an inanimate non-living object. That is not what I studied in microbiology. The barb design may be true but the movement and actions done by the herpes like virus is impossible.

[Socratesabroad]

That movie cannot be correct tho.
a virus is an inatimate non-living object. That is not what I studied in microbiology.

Well, I'd be curious as to where and what you studied.

The infection starts with attachment of the long tail fibers to host cell receptors therefore causing these fibers to point towards the cell surface. This triggers the hexagonal-to-star conformational change of the baseplate. The long tail fibers, bound to the host cell receptors, act as levers that move the baseplate towards the cell surface. The short tail fibers unfold from under the baseplate and bind to the host cell receptors irreversibly. When the sheath around the tail tube contracts, the baseplate hub, containing the gp5 membrane-puncturing needle and its three lysozyme domains, is pushed through the baseplate into the periplasm. The lysozyme domains (shown in green) digest the peptidoglycan (blue), thus allowing the tube to reach the cytoplasmic membrane and initiate DNA transfer to the cell.

http://seyet.com/t4phage/
The above site also has full length and better quality copies of the original movie.

The barb design may be true but the movement and actions done by the herpes like virus is impossible.

An electron photograph of such an 'impossible' action:


I'm also curious as to how the bacteriophage T4 is a 'herpes like virus' - herpes looks more like this


Further info on other differences, like fusion between the viral and host membranes, by the herpes virus is here:
http://darwin.bio.uci.edu/~faculty/wagner/movieindex.html

[American Oyaji]

a virus is an inatimate non-living object.

You make inane comments like this and expect us to take you seriously?

[AssKissinger]

a virus is an inatimate non-living object.

You make inane comments like this and expect us to take you seriously?

Virus

Any of various simple submicroscopic parasites of plants, animals, and bacteria that often cause disease and that consist essentially of a core of RNA or DNA surrounded by a protein coat. Unable to replicate without a host cell, viruses are typically not considered living organisms.

inanimate.
( P ) Pronunciation Key (n-n-mt)
adj.
Not having the qualities associated with active, living organisms

[quote] inane ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n-n)
adj.
One that lacks sense or substance: interrupting with inane comments]

[Skankster]

-
-
Actually I thank you all.

I never really took Micro-biology.
But now I have an understanding of how complex viruses can be.



American Oyaji>>>
Stay the Fuck away from me;;; cause I dont want whatever virus you got!!
Sure, I was right and wrong. But I am always glad to use your spitefulness against U to get the facts

Truly amazing.

[AssKissinger]

American Oyaji>>> Stay the Fuck away from me;;; cause I dont want whatever virus you got!!

:rofl: Sorry AO but that was funny.

[Socratesabroad]

Skank, I had no qualms about the inanimate remark, since viruses are a cross between inanimate and animate objects, as anyone familiar with the topic concurs:

`Creating life is one thing which might happen. But in which way, and what is life? It all depends how you define it. There are already species at the borderline between living and non-living. A virus is just a bag of molecules, which is, in effect, dead in a dead environment--it does not replicate, it does nothing, it is dead. But upon penetrating a cell, by purely chemical physical mechanisms, it then uses up part of the machinery of the cell to multiply and grow.'
http://www.ambafrance-au.org/fst/pages/fst26/lehn.en.htm

But then you admit

I never really took Micro-biology.

after stating

That is not what I studied in microbiology.

Commenting about something you're not an expert in is one thing (hey, my education in the field is limited to undergrad only, so I'm certainly not an expert) but your earlier post was a bald-faced lie, or to quote AssK here, BULLSHIT.

[Skankster]

-
-
If you want to CONTINUE THIS:

High-tech film shows virus going in for kill
Globetechnology.com, Canada - 8 Sept--This attacker is a common bacteria-infecting virus called bacteriophage T4 that's related to herpes viruses.

It was in B/W in the original post.


Maybe,,, you meant it in a diff context...but this is the context I meant 'herpes like' to refer to.



REGARDING INANIMATE or NOT:

Lets agree to that we AGREE or rather agree that we DISAGREE.
No matter... I will not quibble what I obviously see as inanimate

[yakinoumiso]

That film certainly makes biology look more photogenic that it probably is. Though, I'll guess it's a reasonable faximilie of what's going on when you catch a cold or are infected with any virus. All viruses are basically a few stitched together proteins and a wad a vRNA. They do nothing until they hit a cell membrane, where a chemical response occurs starting a chain reaction of events that result in something like what the movie showed. It's interesting and fairly complex, but in its essence resembles a Rube-Goldberg machine (the game mousetrap, is one example).

Anway, all of those little spidery landers are why you should cover your nose and mouth when you sneeze. Imagine a million of those f-kers shooting out of you at supersonic speed. And those fiber masks that people wear when they have a cold...won't do a damn thing for viruses.

I'm also curious as to how the bacteriophage T4 is a 'herpes like virus' - herpes looks more like this

Socratesabroad. Mebbe there's some confusion in what that picture shows. It looks like an electron micrograph of a cell that has a number of viral macrophages attached to the surface. The cell is the big thing, in fact it's most of the picture. The nucleus is the round part to the left of the center of the cell, and the viruses are the things that look like hairs on the top, right hand side of the cell.

[kotatsuneko]

wasnt that orrible spider also exhibited at the Tate Modern?

[Socratesabroad]

Socratesabroad. Mebbe there's some confusion in what that picture shows. It looks like an electron micrograph of a cell that has a number of viral macrophages attached to the surface. The cell is the big thing, in fact it's most of the picture. The nucleus is the round part to the left of the center of the cell, and the viruses are the things that look like hairs on the top, right hand side of the cell.

I don't even know where to begin. The 'confusion' about the photo Yaki is sadly all yours. The captions are below to explain what you're seeing. [I guess I took it for granted that people would look at the page with images before commenting - lesson learned]

Here's the photo



And here's the caption.

Herpes viruses have an envelope surrounding an icosahedral capsid, approximately 100nm in diameter, which contains the dsDNA genome.

When the envelope breaks and collapses away from the capsid, negatively stained virions have a typical "fried-egg" appearance.

And here's another picture of that 'nucleus' you saw



And here's the caption

The herpes virus CAPSID is an icosahedron of triangulation number T = 16. There are 12 pentavalent capsomers (one at each apex) and 150 hexavalent capsomers. Each capsomer has a deep central indentation.

And I'll handle the rest of this matter once my work is done...

[yakinoumiso]

[I guess I took it for granted that people would look at the page with images before commenting - lesson learned]

Sorry, I didn't find either of the micrographs on the pages you linked to. I guess you could have provided the captions that belonged to the images. That would have been helpful to provide some context. Moreover, I've seen similar looking images viral particles attached to a cell membrane, so I think my 'confusion', while avoidable, was somewhat understandable.

The original image and text is here: http://web.uct.ac.za/depts/mmi/stannard/herpes.html

Anyway, you can see what I was thinking about in these images.

HIV attaching to T-cells


T1 bacteriophage attached to cell surface

And here's another picture of that 'nucleus' you saw

Yeah, it's pretty obvious once you put the image in context, though there is probably no reason to be condesending about it.

I should also have not said that all viruses have RNA, i meant a relatively simple nucleic acid, be it RNA, DNA (ss or ds), or other non 5',3'-RNA containing viruses. The topic 5',4'-RNA viruses was brought up in a class several years ago, but I don't remember the details.

Here is another good discussion on viruses: http://www.slic2.wsu.edu:82/hurlbert/micro101/pages/Chap11.html

I'm curious though, why did you quote Lehn? While he's a Nobel Laureate, it was the chemistry prize and was awarded for the work he did with crown ethers. Don't get me wrong, he's a brilliant guy, but not necessarily the leading light in terms of virology.

[Socratesabroad]

I guess you could have provided the captions that belonged to the images. That would have been helpful to provide some context. Moreover, I've seen similar looking images viral particles attached to a cell membrane, so I think my 'confusion', while avoidable, was somewhat understandable.

With all due respect, a large number of the photos on the FG pages have no captions listed and few have the original page listed. I knew the material I was citing and did not anticipate any confusion to ensue (honestly, I didn't expect further comments, but that's beside the point).

Yeah, it's pretty obvious once you put the image in context, though there is probably no reason to be condesending about it.

I don't think I was being condescending at all - you erroneously identified a virus as a cell and proceeded to incorrectly 'explain' the photos. I think that after I made mention of this if you had said 'Oops, I made a mistake' or 'I should have checked further before commenting' then I'd have said 'good on ya, mate' or 'no worries' and that would have been the end of it.

I'm curious though, why did you quote Lehn? While he's a Nobel Laureate, it was the chemistry prize and was awarded for the work he did with crown ethers. Don't get me wrong, he's a brilliant guy, but not necessarily the leading light in terms of virology.

And I'll answer this point as well...
I chose the quote primarily because it illustrated my point. Although Lehn's specialty is physical organic chemistry, his work with molecules that mimic the mode of action of enzymes hints directly, as he put it, at 'the borderline between living and non-living.'

About Lehn
http://nobelprize.org/chemistry/laureates/1987/lehn-autobio.html

[Socratesabroad]

It was in B/W in the original post.

Maybe,,, you meant it in a diff context...but this is the context I meant 'herpes like' to refer to.

If you want to CONTINUE THIS:

No, I think I'll end it.

Aside from both being viruses (bacteriophage T4 being a myovirus), there are few other similarities between bacteriophage T4 and the herpes virus (which, incidentally, was my contention from the very beginning).

Actually T4 and herpes viruses are not all that similar. Both contain DNA and both are large for viruses, but in terms of similarity that is about it. T4 infects bacteria, while herpes viruses infect humans. Because these viruses infect such different cells, they really are quite different.
[emphasis mine]