is buying a house such a bad thing?

[Caustic Saint]

Also zero storage space and not enough room for my shoe collection.

The problem may not lie in the amount of storage space....

[Big Booger]

All I know is what I see. In America really nice houses can be over a hundred years old. In Japan, they fall to the ground in 25 years. If I buy a house I want to be able to live in it when I'm old for fucks sake.

My brother travels around the US building homes and log cabins that would really make a Japanese joint look like a shithole.. But then the homes he builds are worth more than I will make in 30 years..

[Watcher]

Had a couple of students a year or so back... one worked for a company that made fibre cement (the faux-brick exterior siding that makes up the bulk of so many modern Japanese houses) and the other worked for a company that made the exterior fibre cement paint. Get this... Fibre cement has a lifetime of 30 years before it starts to break down while the paint has a lifetime of 35 years! Now here's the kicker... the fibre cement paint salesman was building his own home out of concrete.

I believe that most have the Japanese housing issue all wrong. North American houses may be built stronger but that doesn't mean better... a home costs a lot to maintain here. Roofing, driveway sealing, cracking foundations as homes settle, old pipes leaking, exterior painting, ancient fuses blowing out due to modern demands on the load, termites munching on the frame, boilers going every 10 years or so, etc. etc. etc. If you don't keep your home up it will fall apart... I've seen plenty of tax assessments with the "improvement" valued at less than $10,000 while "land" valued at $190,000.
I knew quite a few Japanese who owned old family homes in Shiga, these houses from the Meiji era, and they had a modern attachment 'cuz who wants to live in the drafty, old, uncomfortable, cool looking museum? Most people realise that homes become outdated and build a new house every 30 years or so. Once you've got the land (paid off... and many do with family money) you can amortise the home over the lifetime (30 years) and figure that and land taxes costing between 500,000-1,000,000 Yen/year. The key to this affordability is to have the land paid off. It's really not so different, except one group has a new house of their own design every 30 years or so.
On the other hand... if you have no land then you're better off renting... condos are the biggest scam going in depopulating, crap-building, Japan.

[devicenull]

ok, so, here is what you do... buy some land, live in a tent. you can get a dining tent and everything. hook up a generator for your appliances and you are set.

[maraboutslim]

I'm very surprised by the low purchase prices quoted in the Tokyo suburbs. How much do these places rent for? One can borrow US$100k on a ten year loan for about $1000 month payment. I suspect interest rates and special programs in Japan may even make that mortgage more affordable. Have rents dropped as well? I don't remember ever seeing a 1DK anywhere near Tokyo/Yokohama for less than $1k a month even in the 90s. If one can rent out these places for a slight positive cash flow over the mortgage payment, then ten years from now, though the place may be even more crap, all rental income is cash money in pocket. Any of you looking into becomming slumlords?

[Mulboyne]

talkingdog talk much sense to white man.

I still sense a bit of confusion between buying land, with or without a house, and buying an apartment.
During the bubble, both assets went up exponentially and, subsequently, both went down. The recent surveys showing rising prices are land price surveys. If you bought land in the central Tokyo wards at the right price a few years ago, you can make money by selling it to someone else today. However, if you bought an apartment off-plan in the same locations, you will probably lose money if you sell it (just as you would if you tried to sell a new car).
But many apartment buyers are looking at yields rather than re-sale values. It may be a bad building but if your rent can cover your loan, you have a working asset, no matter how you depreciate the building.
In short, it has not been easy to buy an apartment and sell it for a capital gain because there is no land underlying the asset. But you can make money through income.
Take the case of a restaurant. In most cases in Japan, the restaurant owner does not own the land but is renting/leasing. If he does well and the restaurant makes a profit, he may want to sell his business. But he doesn't own the land. He has taken a fixed asset (land) and generated revenue so anyone buying his place is buying a revenue stream, not land. Similarly, anyone buying an apartment is buying a revenue stream, either because you rent it to someone or, as talkingdog has said, you live there yourself and avoid paying someone else (imputed rent).
So, you can buy an apartment if there is a revenue stream attached and your financing costs don't exceed that income. Can you sell the apartment later? That is a different question. If you need to sell then your fate is in the hands of buyers. That depends on sentiment so if you think you will need to sell, you probably shouldn't buy.
But, if you own a place long enough for the rent to cover your finance costs, then you end up owing an asset that someone else paid for. That's not so bad. If you are living there yourself, it probably isn't your dream house but, over time, you may have spent less than you would have on rent and ended up owning a place.

Land is a different issue. Some of the calculations are the same - it is easy to imagine a restaurant owner getting a better price for his business if he owned the land and so it is with housing.
Land value is a function of what you can do with it. Subject to regulation, you can build a love hotel, house, car park, whatever. What you choose to build is based on whether you are trying to make money out of it or live there.
When someone buys land from you, they are rarely buying your love hotel, car park, house. The are buying the land and intend to do something else with it. If you built a car park and they want to build a house, then the buyer has to spend money converting your land. Consequently, the buyer may want a discount in relation to his conversion costs. That's why you hear stories of houses with "negative value". That means that no potential land buyer wants your building and so will have to pay for demolition. It would be better for that kind of buyer if the land was empty.
But a "negative value" house is not worthless if you are renting it out or using it yourself. It has a positive value.
Land prices have risen. IF this trend continues, then, if you buy land with/without a house, you will be able to sell it for a profit later. BUT, if you buy land and spend money on a house, then whatever you spend on the house is at risk. If you want a resale profit, then the land must rise more than the house goes down.
So, when you think of buying, you need to be very clear about what your economics are and the difference between owning land and buying an apartment. Income statements and balance sheets are different- you can make money on one and lose it on the other (now). Or lose on both (post-bubble) or gain on both (bubble)

[Watcher]

it has not been easy to buy an apartment and sell it for a capital gain because there is no land underlying the asset.

Unless it's different in Japan from the commonwealth nations... there is land attached to every apartment. No land attached would be a lease somewhere along the same lines as the concept of a hotel... that is you only pay for your right to be there. Apartments/condos/mansions must file a strata plan and each home is allocated a piece of the strata. That is the basis of the unit's taxation. In addition the owner of each space will pay maintanance fees in accordance with their unit entitlement. These fees go to the common area's maintanance such as lawn and garden care, elevator servicing, hallways and carpeting, security systems, etc. etc. etcas well as a contingency fund (which would cover major repairs such as roofing or lawsuits from someone falling down an open elevator shaft). If the building was to be destroyed, each owner would receive a portion of the settlement based on their unit entitlement.

Strata law... it's a wonderful thing.

ok, so, here is what you do... buy some land, live in a tent. you can get a dining tent and everything. hook up a generator for your appliances and you are set.

Nahhh... in Japan you don't need to buy land for that. It's perfectly legal to live on any public land. But you may want to look into blue tarp manufacturing if you want to cash in on that boom. Where do they all get that plastic tarping? And why is it I only see blue?

[talkingdog]

All I know is what I see. In America really nice houses can be over a hundred years old. In Japan, they fall to the ground in 25 years. If I buy a house I want to be able to live in it when I'm old for fucks sake.

My brother travels around the US building homes and log cabins that would really make a Japanese joint look like a shithole.. But then the homes he builds are worth more than I will make in 30 years..

OK, but now we're talking high end housing. If you can afford high end housing, chances are the point of this discussion is moot.

If you want a place that would be equivalent to a home in Beverly Hills you can get it. Ever been inside a home-at-home for expat corporate executives?

As for log cabins, I beg to differ. The Japanese are hopelessly addicted to American and Canadian log cabins, and they import large quantities of kits and prime logs. The kits are foreign built, handmade by guys like your brother. The Japanese-built ones are done by Japanese carpenters and feature the characteristic superb Japanese workmanship in hand tooled wood surfaces. Actually, I find them rather too slick and perfect; it's almost a caricature. Shitboxes they ain't.

[talkingdog]

I'm very surprised by the low purchase prices quoted in the Tokyo suburbs. How much do these places rent for? One can borrow US$100k on a ten year loan for about $1000 month payment. I suspect interest rates and special programs in Japan may even make that mortgage more affordable. Have rents dropped as well? I don't remember ever seeing a 1DK anywhere near Tokyo/Yokohama for less than $1k a month even in the 90s. If one can rent out these places for a slight positive cash flow over the mortgage payment, then ten years from now, though the place may be even more crap, all rental income is cash money in pocket. Any of you looking into becomming slumlords?

I think anything outside of the five central wards of Tokyo, and certain select areas in Osaka, Kobe, Nagoya, etc. would be a losing proposition long term. After all, the population begins to shrink in 2005, and that means that demand will necessarily slacken in outlying areas. This effect is heightened by the re-turn-to-the-city-center phenomenon.

I used to work for a bona-fide slumlord, and lemme tell you it is not the business you want to be in. Much better to invest in JREITs (income-producing shares in new rental apartment buildings) and manage them just like any other electronic trade.

JREITs are one area where a lot of money has been made in Japanese housing during the past years, and this is expected to continue, as long as more people choose renting over buying.

[talkingdog]

>>talkingdog talk much sense to white man.<<

wan! wan!

>>But many apartment buyers are looking at yields rather than re-sale values. It may be a bad building but if your rent can cover your loan, you have a working asset, no matter how you depreciate the building.
<<

Again, JREITs are the way to go. Although there has been a lot of hype about individuals buying condos for investment, this can be turn out to be a bad business. Just do the math. It's tenuous.


>>In short, it has not been easy to buy an apartment and sell it for a capital gain because there is no land underlying the asset.
<<

This is inaccurate. Typical condos have about 5 tsubos of land included in the title. I saw a townhouse condo development recently that had 30 tsubos entailed.


>>But you can make money through income. anyone buying an apartment is buying a revenue stream, either because you rent it to someone or, as talkingdog has said, you live there yourself and avoid paying someone else (imputed rent).
<<

OK, the imputed rent is the crux of the discussion. I personally would prefer to live in a home-at-home style residence. High ceilings, wide hallways and stairways, big US appliances, lots of space, over 2500 sq. ft. woodwork and cabinetry made out of solid wood, hardwood floors, tiled bathroom, central HVAC, etc. Can a normal guy afford to build something like this in Japan? Yes, if you do your homework. What is the imputed rent on something like this? Well, the rent on a home-at-home is how much? 75 man? 100 man? 200?



>>But, if you own a place long enough for the rent to cover your finance costs, then you end up owing an asset that someone else paid for. That's not so bad. If you are living there yourself, it probably isn't your dream house but, over time, you may have spent less than you would have on rent and ended up owning a place.
<<

Again, you end up being in a place that is much better than you could afford to rent. We are all dead in the long run anyway, so might was well live well now.


>>Land is a different issue.... the buyer has to spend money converting your land. Consequently, the buyer may want a discount in relation to his conversion costs. That's why you hear stories of houses with "negative value". That means that no potential land buyer wants your building and so will have to pay for demolition. It would be better for that kind of buyer if the land was empty.
<<

Yes, and here is where there is a chance for some arbitrage. If you have the vision to take a thirty year old shitbox wooden apartment house and tart it up just enough that it appeals to young single females, you have a chance of recouping your investment quickly and catching a good revenue stream.

Furthermore, there is sometimes a differential between the price of the same land with structure extant plus demolition cost and the price as cleared, vacant lot. In other words, the "negative value" is overstated, and you can save a few million by having the demolition done yourself.

Better yet, I have heard stories that one recent practice is to tear down the house but leave the foundation and utilities hookup intact. Then you just build a different building on the old foundation. There could be between five and ten million in savings right here, but this really needs to be a foundation built to the 1981 seismic standards.

>>BUT, if you buy land and spend money on a house, then whatever you spend on the house is at risk.
<<

The BIG RISK is that you will somehow become unable to pay the housing loan and not die. If you die, at least the life insurance is going to cover the loan. If you become insolvent, you cannot just return the keys to the bank and get a deed in lie of foreclosure and then walk away from the obligation. No deeds in lieu of foreclosure in Japan--because there are no (or few) mortgages secured by the land and house. Instead the housing loan is secured by your guarantor, by your own bodily parts, and those of your daughter...

In other words, when you default, the bank just unloads the note at a discount onto some collector--who just may or may not perceive some resale value in your kidneys.

[talkingdog]

it has not been easy to buy an apartment and sell it for a capital gain because there is no land underlying the asset.

Unless it's different in Japan from the commonwealth nations... there is land attached to every apartment.

You are correct.

ok, so, here is what you do... buy some land, live in a tent. you can get a dining tent and everything. hook up a generator for your appliances and you are set.

Nahhh... in Japan you don't need to buy land for that. It's perfectly legal to live on any public land. But you may want to look into blue tarp manufacturing if you want to cash in on that boom. Where do they all get that plastic tarping? And why is it I only see blue?

The blue tarp is cheaper, and there is so much of it around that they can get it for free. Buit actually, the gray tarp is better because it is UV resistant and provides you something of a radiant barrier.

I think that the age-old solution of getting a place under a bridge is better. Then you can build a nice place with cardboard. I saw some guys hanging out in front of their cardboard homes on the east bank of the Kamogawa here in Kyoto, under the Shijo bridge. They had their fishing lines set, and were sitting around a little table eating yakiniku and drinking cold beer, little TV going in the background with the ballgame on. Livin' the good life.

[GomiGirl]

Can somebody explain to me in simple terms the Japanese tax loop-hole called the "Wooden House"?

It is linked with the depreciation of the property but that is about all I understand.

[Mulboyne]

it has not been easy to buy an apartment and sell it for a capital gain because there is no land underlying the asset.

Unless it's different in Japan from the commonwealth nations... there is land attached to every apartment.

You are correct.

My very bad. I meant, and failed, to contrast land you own where you can change the structure and land attached to a condo. Once you have bought an apartment, you can't do anything else with the land. So, to get a capital gain, someone else has to want to buy the actual apartment. In a raging bull market, a developer might try to buy everyone out to build a whole new structure but that isn't happening right now.

[talkingdog]

Can somebody explain to me in simple terms the Japanese tax loop-hole called the "Wooden House"?

It is linked with the depreciation of the property but that is about all I understand.

I think they depreciate faster as fixed assets than steel or concrete
structures, for taz purposes. They also get favorable treatment
in other ways, too.

[Lifer]

I built a house a year ago, so have a bit of up-to-date info on the subject BUT:
1. I live in the countryside - nowhere near Tokyo or Kansai
2. We chose an imported 2x4 design from Canada

As far as the "wooden house" thingy - it doesn't matter where your house comes from - it depreciates in value every year as far as I can tell. The reasons have pretty much been touched on in the other posts but summarize as: poor construction, poor maintenance (it's a cultural thing), & factors of the environment in Japan that tend to age wooden structures (termites, humidity, ocean salt in the air,etc...)

I think owning a home here is MUCH better than renting:
Pros: no neighbors above or below, my own yard, DIY maintenance & improvements, only 10,000 more than renting a small apartment (except for bonus payments), better environment to raise my kid
Cons: loss of the housing stipend from my co. (Apartment=40% of rent House= 3,000 yen/mnth), 25 year loan, depreciating value of house, bonus payments

But hell, I plan on living in this house till I die, so why should I care if the property taxes go down every year? Not withstanding another typhoon year from hell or the gran mal of earthquakes, I know this house will last another 60 years with the proper mainenance. So just for the piece of mind (making my own little America) it's well worth the BS required to do it. Looking for a financial investment is a whole nuther ball game.

Anyone intersted in my thoughts on Japanese construction methods - let me know

[talkingdog]

I built a house a year ago, so have a bit of up-to-date info on the subject BUT:
1. I live in the countryside - nowhere near Tokyo or Kansai
2. We chose an imported 2x4 design from Canada

Which company did you choose for your Canadian house? What was the final cost per tsubo?

BTW if you are interested in hard core discussions of gaijin DIY and home improvement, check out this new mailing list on Yahoo groups:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gdiy

[Mini_B]

The 2004
Japanese house will withstand a Florida hurricane and a
California quake and a Chicago Fire and do so while consuming zero energy and
containing 100 percent recyclable materials.

No fucking way will Japnese wood framed houses withstand the winds of a Florida hurricane...earthquakes yes, hurricanes not a chance.

[Mulboyne]

Can somebody explain to me in simple terms the Japanese tax loop-hole called the "Wooden House"?

It is linked with the depreciation of the property but that is about all I understand.

If you are have lived in Japan for more than five years, then the tax authorities have the right to tax you on global income (i.e. including earned outside Japan). Many foreigners take a fast and loose approach to declaring overseas income. Overseas property is assumed to be an income earning asset so many people don't declare their property but, since Japanese depreciation on wooden structures is accelerated, if, for instance, you are lucky/rich enough to own a Tudor-period wooden structure in the UK, you will not be taxed since depreciation rates here have already written the structure's value to zero. That is a definitely a"loophole".

[Lifer]

Which company did you choose for your Canadian house? What was the final cost per tsubo?

We chose Selco Homes and as for cost/tsubo well... I hate Math. It's about 44 tsubo and minus the cost of land was a little under 2,000 man so that's about 450,000 yen/tsubo. That includes all the insurance, paperwork fees, lights, curtains, yard design, drivaway cement,etc. Seems to me it was actually a little less than that but that was a year ago and I am getting old

I liked Selco because they process the lumber in Canada (giving Canadians jobs) and because the basic no frills package is pretty damned good. All oak floors and cabinets on the 1st floor, wall to wall carpeting on the second, exterior walls are actually made with 2x6s so they are thicker and packed with excellent insulation (an 8-jo oil heater kept the whole house a constant 22 degrees last winter), all double-paned glass, and windows that actaully seal shut so you don't get that Japanese draft on windy days.

Also, the only reason we could get a loan was because the construction company majorly backed us up with the bank and searched until they found a loan insuring company that would take us. They even fronted us 10,000,000 yen when the land developer called and said, "Sorry to keep you waiting for 5 months, but we need payment in full, in cash tomorrow." (I didn't have my permanent residence status at the time)

[Taro Toporific]

Anyone intersted in my thoughts on Japanese construction methods - let me know

Japanese contractors ought to start comedy clubs. They have 100% "creative" compliance with the laughable Japanese building code.


Oh by the way, Japanese building code does NOT mandate in housing:
Smoke alarms
Proper drain diameters larger 1.5 inch
Vapor barriers
Insulation greater than R-5
Dual pane windows
Central heating
Rain gutters
Number of wall outlets per running meter
Sufficient amperage for kitchens
Separation of electrical circuits among kitchens, utility, and bath
Integrated counters and cabinets in kitchens
Buried utilities
A single pour for concrete foundations


Of course without ANY Japan city planning or zoning we can't expect them to have setbacks and landscaping covenants. Besides, earthquake-prone Japan is much more exciting with forests of the National Tree, the sacred concrete utility pole, water tanks unsecured on building tops and air-conditioners hanging by rusted bolts to sides of new buildings.

[GomiGirl]

Can somebody explain to me in simple terms the Japanese tax loop-hole called the "Wooden House"?

It is linked with the depreciation of the property but that is about all I understand.

If you are have lived in Japan for more than five years, then the tax authorities have the right to tax you on global income (i.e. including earned outside Japan). Many foreigners take a fast and loose approach to declaring overseas income. Overseas property is assumed to be an income earning asset so many people don't declare their property but, since Japanese depreciation on wooden structures is accelerated, if, for instance, you are lucky/rich enough to own a Tudor-period wooden structure in the UK, you will not be taxed since depreciation rates here have already written the structure's value to zero. That is a definitely a"loophole".

Sounds like it is time for me to buy that beach cabin on a small south pacific island..

Thank you - that was really helpful - no-one has ever explained it well enough before.

[talkingdog]

The 2004
Japanese house will withstand a Florida hurricane and a
California quake and a Chicago Fire and do so while consuming zero energy and
containing 100 percent recyclable materials.

No fucking way will Japnese wood framed houses withstand the winds of a Florida hurricane...earthquakes yes, hurricanes not a chance.

Why not? Are you even well-enough informed technically to tell me why Florida houses cannot withstand hurricanes? Probably not.

The reason is not technical at all, it's renowned stupidity of Floridians. Yes, let's face it, when they shook the continent and all the nuts rolled to Boulder, at the same time all the idiots rolled to Florida, like big fat soggy cabbages.

After hurricane Andrew, which was a devastating storm in the 90's, there were exhaustive engineering analyses made of the failed stick-framed (2x4) structures. The primary problem was poor application of staples in shingles and OSB roof sheathing. This lead to failure of roof systems and then a cascade of failures as water entered the building envelopes in mass quantities. The recommended best practice was to return to the use of plywood instead of OSB and to nail, not staple, and to inspect to make damned sure the nails hit their target.

Fast forward to the Cat-5 storms of 2004 and we see exactly the same types of failures due to the same trademark Florida stupidity. Moreover, in South Florida, where concrete structures have become the norm, there were even failures of these, due to the incomprehensible practice of putting a wood framed roof on a poured concrete shell. Duh. WTF.

At least the Japanese would never make that mistake--all their concrete houses have poured roofs.

[talkingdog]

Anyone intersted in my thoughts on Japanese construction methods - let me know

Japanese contractors ought to start comedy clubs. They have 100% "creative" compliance with the laughable Japanese building code.


Oh by the way, Japanese building code does NOT mandate in housing:
Smoke alarms
Proper drain diameters larger 1.5 inch
Vapor barriers
Insulation greater than R-5
Dual pane windows
Central heating
Rain gutters
Number of wall outlets per running meter
Sufficient amperage for kitchens
Separation of electrical circuits among kitchens, utility, and bath
Integrated counters and cabinets in kitchens
Buried utilities
A single pour for concrete foundations


Of course without ANY Japan city planning or zoning we can't expect them to have setbacks and landscaping covenants. Besides, earthquake-prone Japan is much more exciting with forests of the National Tree, the sacred concrete utility pole, water tanks unsecured on building tops and air-conditioners hanging by rusted bolts to sides of new buildings.

Most of the points on the list above are either tenuous or dubious or both. And I doubt you have even read and grasped technically the Japanese building code of 2001 in Japanese (not available in English). You probably don't even know how to say GFCI in Japanese, and this is the most glaringly obvious thing you left off your list.

[talkingdog]

Which company did you choose for your Canadian house? What was the final cost per tsubo?

I liked Selco because they process the lumber in Canada (giving Canadians jobs) and because the basic no frills package is pretty damned good. All oak floors and cabinets on the 1st floor, wall to wall carpeting on the second, exterior walls are actually made with 2x6s so they are thicker and packed with excellent insulation (an 8-jo oil heater kept the whole house a constant 22 degrees last winter), all double-paned glass, and windows that actaully seal shut so you don't get that Japanese draft on windy days.

Please tell me that you are using an externally vented oil heater in your new airtight house.

[Lifer]

Please tell me that you are using an externally vented oil heater in your new airtight house.

Nah, I turn off the central ventilation system cause I like the warm fuzzy feeling you get after a couple of hours Also LOVE the smell of kerosene so I was hoping the house would retain as much of the odor as possible.

As to building codes, I couldn't be fk'd to bother reading them. I know what I'm looking at so I visited construction sites using different methods and still felt American style 2x4 framing was the better design for a wood frame house.

Granted, I'm no pro-carpenter so don't give me Sht, but my biggest peave with Japanese mokuzo design was the way that major support beams were connected. Though they now use metal braces as well, the main thing holding the beams is like a tongue & groove cut with 1 huge ass nail in it. Picture the beams slipping out of the notch in a good trembler. Though the metal brace now keeps it from falling on your head - your wall is still FK'D. Secondly, the number of studs and spacing just makes the walls seem weak. Major upright beams are mainly supported by thin diagonal 2x2s going from corner to corner. Third is that the exterior walls are not on a plywood inner, but a bunch of 1x2 strips spaced about 2 inches apart - which is why they are so drafty. As for foundations, it's not so common now, but they are generally only driectly under the walls - not a solid pour. (Helps the termites infest and the drafts come up through the tatamis)

Regarding Florida, I've gotta agree that shoddy construction is the major cause - a quick scan of recent news will turn up a number of articles quoting engineers saying, "I told you so!!" And if you've ever been to Okinawa, you'd see true typhoon tough traditional Japanese houses that would likely hold up better in a hurricane than 2x4 framing with a shingle roof.

[maraboutslim]

Most of the points on the list above are either tenuous or dubious or both. And I doubt you have even read and grasped technically the Japanese building code of 2001 in Japanese (not available in English). You probably don't even know how to say GFCI in Japanese, and this is the most glaringly obvious thing you left off your list.

Dude, spend a little more time on this site before you call bullshit on someone like Taro and make (incorrect) assumptions about his language skills.

[talkingdog]

Please tell me that you are using an externally vented oil heater in your new airtight house.

As to building codes, I couldn't be fk'd to bother reading them. I know what I'm looking at so I visited construction sites using different methods and still felt American style 2x4 framing was the better design for a wood frame house.

This is a good point. American style 2x4 framing is better than Japanese 2x4 framing, is that what you meant?

American framing is based on a foot module with four foot panels and Japanese is based on 45.5 cm module with 91 cm (36 inch).panels. The American style gives you bigger spaces and stronger walls that are more efficiently built. It's just plain superior.

Moreover, American carpenter just plain are more skilled at building 2x4 than Japanese. Period.

Ideally you would want to import an American carpenter along with your load of materials.

[talkingdog]

Most of the points on the list above are either tenuous or dubious or both. And I doubt you have even read and grasped technically the Japanese building code of 2001 in Japanese (not available in English). You probably don't even know how to say GFCI in Japanese, and this is the most glaringly obvious thing you left off your list.

Dude, spend a little more time on this site before you call bullshit on someone like Taro and make (incorrect) assumptions about his language skills.

Yes, yes, I know TT is this site's Big Hunk of Burning Love. And I know he's probably the most prolific of the many trolls on this site. Like most trolls, the things he posts are always a little less than half true--but they make for great entertainment value, I must grant you that.

So I guess I better get down on my knees on give Mr. Big Burning Hunk of Love, Florida version, a nice sloppy blowjob, right?

OK, come on over here big fella, let's see how much you got.

[GomiGirl]

Most of the points on the list above are either tenuous or dubious or both. And I doubt you have even read and grasped technically the Japanese building code of 2001 in Japanese (not available in English). You probably don't even know how to say GFCI in Japanese, and this is the most glaringly obvious thing you left off your list.

Dude, spend a little more time on this site before you call bullshit on someone like Taro and make (incorrect) assumptions about his language skills.

Yes, yes, I know TT is this site's Big Hunk of Burning Love. And I know he's probably the most prolific of the many trolls on this site. Like most trolls, the things he posts are always a little less than half true--but they make for great entertainment value, I must grant you that.

So I guess I better get down on my knees on give Mr. Big Burning Hunk of Love, Florida version, a nice sloppy blowjob, right?

OK, come on over here big fella, let's see how much you got.

Oi - newb - watch yourself!! You are talking out of your arse and making yourself look stoopid.

[talkingdog]

Most of the points on the list above are either tenuous or dubious or both. And I doubt you have even read and grasped technically the Japanese building code of 2001 in Japanese (not available in English). You probably don't even know how to say GFCI in Japanese, and this is the most glaringly obvious thing you left off your list.

Dude, spend a little more time on this site before you call bullshit on someone like Taro and make (incorrect) assumptions about his language skills.

Yes, yes, I know TT is this site's Big Hunk of Burning Love. And I know he's probably the most prolific of the many trolls on this site. Like most trolls, the things he posts are always a little less than half true--but they make for great entertainment value, I must grant you that.

So I guess I better get down on my knees on give Mr. Big Burning Hunk of Love, Florida version, a nice sloppy blowjob, right?

OK, come on over here big fella, let's see how much you got.

Oi - newb - watch yourself!! You are talking out of your arse and making yourself look stoopid.

And now we have the soprano in the chorus, and the rest is about to chime in.


GG, I may be a lurker on this board but I am not a newbie. And while I may be guilty of dissing on your Hunk of Burning Love, rest assured that I have nothing but the highest and undying esteem for you as the One True Goddess of Fucked Gaijin everywhere.