Japanese Profiency Test Pissing Contest

[Skankster]

I knew a guy from The Gambia, and he went from 0 japanese to 1 kyu in a year. There is no hero points for being able to speak such a simple language.

I guess he wasnt such a zero to start with after all.
Japanese is easy for Mongolians, Koreans, Fins, Turks, Eskimos, Tibetans, and some Indians. Even chinese find it easy because the writing is easy.
Outside of that it is not "easy". I guarantee the Gambian dude hustled to learn the language.


When I took the 1kyu test last year there was 1 Af-American, 1 south asian, and 1 white guy in my room. The rest were East Asian of some type. With those numbers I dont see much acheivement for any group...
...maybe outstanding individual achievement for the above mentioned people, but none for their respective races.

[tatsujin]

Jesus lads! What started as a simple request for advice has turned into an all out war

I think its inevitable that there are bound to be some misinterpretations when we communicate in this manner (text forum), would you guys be having this arguement if you were in a bar face to face? You both would have probably backed down and be on your 3rd pint of Murphys by now (please tell me you can get Murphys in Japan)

My humble contribution - http://www.jisyo.org

Cool site that translate kanji for little old you

Also for Level 4,3 and 2 kanji - nice site -

http://www.kanjisite.com/html/start/jlpt/2/all/index.html

Thanks for other links guys - much appreciated and best of luck in your tests!

[Socratesabroad]

And nobody ever passed 1kyuu in one year, if you think so, I challenge you to show me the certificate. But you won't because you can't.

I side fully with Charles on this.

On the myth of the 1-year 1 kyu:
Years ago on JET, there were also rumors of the quasi-genius student of Japanese who started at 0 and passed 1 kyu in a year. After some digging, I found that no one could actually substantiate that claim, both at the prefectural and national (CLAIR) level. Sure, there were a few people who had studied Japanese in uni and comitted themselves to the test while in Japan, but they weren't starting at 0, now were they?

In the queue, I mean kyu:
Charles is spot on in that levels 4 and 3 are somewhat in progression by level of difficulty, but then there's a huge disparity (number of kanji, vocabulary, grammar patterns, etc.) between 3 and 2 and a slightly smaller jump from 2 to 1. I took him to be saying, 'Don't expect the levels to progress uniformly by difficulty,' a comment I considered in no way to be offensive.

And for that personal touch...

NN, take it easy a bit. I don't think he was trying to offend. I thought the same thing just from reading the post at face value - I'm sure you know plenty of people who've just passed level 3 and think they're ready for the higher levels. But if you've been prepping for a good while, why not aim for level 1? Sincerely, I wish you the best of luck.

maraboutslim, your posts here are all simply sniping at Charles personally with no substantive contribution whatsoever. And you have the audacity to critique his posts...

Maths Dude, I am of the firm opinion you are merely a troll. Why not have your Gambian friend post instead (this board handles Japanese input)? If he'd like to post his scores and proof of date of entry to Japan, I for one would love to see 'em....Didn't think so.

Charles, I for one welcome your comments.

[nigerian_nampa]

Charles, I didn't know you have any kind of disability and wouldn't sneer at that. I simply thought you were saying "You think you're gonna pass? Yeah right! You don't know what the test is like".

[maraboutslim]

maraboutslim, your posts here are all simply sniping at Charles personally with no substantive contribution whatsoever. And you have the audacity to critique his posts...

Yeah, well he's kind of earned it from having that same posting style over and over. He was indeed saying something like "you don't know shit if you think you're going to pass the test that easily." And I thought I'd call him on his behavior. That was an attempt to contribute to the positiveness of this forum.

But for a more substantive contribution, I'll share my experience. I'd say that 3kyu to 2kyu is certainly possible in a year. 3kyu should be passable by anyone living in Japan for more than a year. Besides learning hiragana and katakana (the week i got off the plane), I maybe studied books and flashcards for a grand total of 10 hours to pass 3kyu - the rest was just language ability picked up from just living. If you can't hear, you may have more trouble though because the listening section is so easy (and getting 100% on 25% of the test goes a long way towards the 60% total needed to pass 3-kyu).

2kyu will take some kanji memorization, but the added grammar and vocabulary is about what one should absorb by another 365 days living in Japan without book study. Unless one hangs out with other gaijin all the time.

Test is coming up soon - good luck guys!

[Charles]

Charles, I didn't know you have any kind of disability and wouldn't sneer at that. I simply thought you were saying "You think you're gonna pass? Yeah right! You don't know what the test is like".

I said exactly what I said, there is a huge jump in difficulty between level 3 and 2. Note that the passing grade for L3 is 60%, but 70% for L2 and 1. The material is much MUCH harder, and you have to score better too.

[Maths Dude]

Actually the Gambian language sounds alot like Japanese, and he had learned 2 languages before he even came here. Maybe it was easier for him to do it in a year. And year it was, believe it or not, I dont give a crap.

And as for the individual who called me a 'troll'. It's people like you who can't resist insulting people is why the world is so f*ucked up. You trully are the f*cked gaijin, literally end of story.

[nigerian_nampa]

I said exactly what I said, there is a huge jump in difficulty between level 3 and 2. Note that the passing grade for L3 is 60%, but 70% for L2 and 1. The material is much MUCH harder, and you have to score better too.

The 70% passing score is only for level 1. 60% for level 2, according to the 2004 application guide. But even if it were 70%, I wouldn't be worried. I scored over 90% on the last 3 practice tests I took, with almost all points lost on the vocab section.

It's not a big secret that the material is much harder. But I think it's a reasonable jump for somebody who studies every day and takes it seriously.

Maybe I misunderstood your original post's intention, so if I jumped on you for no reason I apologize. Tatsujin's right that face to face communication is much more precise.

[Molokidan]

[guriguri247365]

For everybody out there taking the tests - study hard. Im sure you will do well.

One thing I would just like to add because I dont think Ive seen it said yet is practice reading as much as you can. When I took level 2, the first time years ago, I never practiced reading much. Did very well on the Kanji section but got bombed on the reading/grammar part and ended up failing by one point... sucked. My listening, which I did great on all the practice tests I ended up getting only 50% - which I reasoned I screwed up somehow by either not filling in all the bubbles or just FKEDUP. Anyways, after that section I walked out side and found my boy and we were both like damn that was eaassssyyyyyy. Bummer, only 50% that year.

Back to my point, read as much as you can. Learn skimming/scanning too which many of us teach our Japanese students but might rarely do ourselves. Find some magazines which interest you and read the articles. If youre interested in something then reading becomes much more fun than some boringass article from some professor at Waseda right? Fuckthat.

Hopefully these sites help you some:

http://www.e-japanese.jp/

http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definition/Japanese+Kanji-english/

http://www.manythings.org/japanese/jlpt/

http://www.pikkle.com/jgram/

http://www.geocities.com/easykanji/jlptgrammar.html

http://www.kanjistep.com/en/online/weeklytest/intro.html

These are just some that Ive found from other forums and sites. If you get buggered down then get guriguri and you will feel much better!

[nigerian_nampa]

Good point about the reading. With some sections, like kanji or grammar, you can cram and get a good score, because the material is finite and quite predictable. Reading, though, is an integrated skill that can't be quickly learned for the test.

I find it very helpful to read the questions and footnotes before reading the main text. It gives you a general context and helps you understand the main idea much more easily. Sometimes you can also answer all the questions having only read half of the text...no need to waste time reading the rest.


It's very important to plan your time for the grammar/reading test. I do the grammar section first and spend 20 minutes tops, leaving 50 for the readings. Then I work backwards through the readings, starting at part III, then going on to part II, then part I. Seems odd, but you don't want to get stuck on the long article in part I and miss a lot of easy points on the short articles in parts II and III. You've got to be confident with the grammar, though, to get through that part quickly.

On my level 4 and 3 tests I scored a little lower on listening than I did on the practice tests. I think that's because you're in a room with many other people, and you hear coughs, papers rustling, and pens tapping, which makes it a little hard to concentrate. Not to mention the stress of the whole event.

[tatsujin]

Hey nigerian_nampa, any update since this last post?

I followed this thread quite closely and now its all gone quiet! How about everyone else???

[FG Lurker]

Well everyone, how'd it go?

I should get off by butt and do at least 2kyu next year... Sigh. My company doesn't seem to care one way or the other though, which dents the motivation considerably. Still, I should do it...

Anyway, would be interested to hear how everyone is feeling now that the test is done.

Ian

[nigerian_nampa]

Late update!! I took the 2kyuu test on Dec. 5th, and I'm confident that I passed it. I didn't score as well as on my practice tests, though, because the early wakeup and being unable to sleep well the night before made it a bit hard to concentrate during the final section. If I do 1kyuu next year I might take a hit of speed or something beforehand, so I'll be functioning at my real level.

Here's my breakdown:

kanji: a few surprises but I knew most of them

vocab: surprisngly easy, even though that's usually my weakness

listening: rediculously easy. Everyone seems to agree that the listening section was too easy this year.

grammar: trickier than the practice tests, but still a breeze because I studied like hell for it.

reading: quite difficult, because I was in a cloud by that point and stuff that's normally easy for me was throwing me off. I had to read a lot of the questions twice, so I ran out of time and missed 7 or 8 questions (worth 5 or 6 points each). I guessed those questions quickly, of course, but I still probably lost 40 points (10%) or so just on that timing problem.

But despite that problem, I'm sure I'll still pass because I did well on all the other sections.

Now I'm taking a well-deserved break from test prep bullshit! For the next little while I'm going to study only what I find interesting and useful. If a JLPT prep book so much as enters my field of vision, I'm going to attack it violently and rip out all the pages!!

[Andocrates]

I knew a guy from The Gambia, and he went from 0 japanese to 1 kyu in a year. There is no hero points for being able to speak such a simple language.

[omae mona]

listening: rediculously easy. Everyone seems to agree that the listening section was too easy this year.

Speak for yourself. When there are three test officials, talking louder than the tape, ejecting the cheater sitting next to you from the test site, then it's a little hard to hear or concentrate.

[Skankster]

If a JLPT prep book so much as enters my field of vision, I'm going to attack it violently and rip out all the pages!!

Too funny.

Im already studying for the Jetro.


----------------------
I would agree wholly w/ NigerianNampa
but ...

The reading came before the grammar in the same test (same time frame)
I did not look to the back of the test to see the grammar questions in the back. The grammar questions would have been rather easy but I did not have time left for it. My bad. My fault.

BUT!!!!!!!!!!! The test is not ergonomic. This I feel is why I did not notice this.
Apparently, the reading was worth 5 points; the grammar was worth 2.
At that ratio it is not representative to the amount of time it takes to do the reading as opposed 2 the grammar. So this is disproportionate...
In my view it was a very "Japanese" test. Thorough, yet unergonomic.

I would also agree the grammar questions are more difficult than the samples I covered and you would need to "study them like hell" (which I did too) to get thru them.

[nigerian_nampa]

For most people, time is a problem on the reading/grammar section. I did the grammar first and missed some reading questions, you started with the reading and missed some grammar questions. Unless you're really on the ball on the test day, and you know the material really well, you'll probably run out of time.

JETRO? Wow, you're ambitious! I don't even understand business vocabulary in English, so I might have some troubles with that test.

[kamome]

I proctored the 3kyu and the 2kyu and read through the test book on the 2kyu along with the students as if I were actually taking the exam. Without having even studied for it, I think I would have passed it, but barely. I did run out of time on the final section, though. Had I put a little bit of actual study time into it, I think I would have passed the 2kyu without a problem.

I agree that the listening was pretty damn easy.

[nigerian_nampa]

listening: rediculously easy. Everyone seems to agree that the listening section was too easy this year.

Speak for yourself. When there are three test officials, talking louder than the tape, ejecting the cheater sitting next to you from the test site, then it's a little hard to hear or concentrate.

True. They don't seem to actually have a plan for what to do in the even that someone's caught cheating. It's essential to have a plan for during the listening section. They should just take a note of who's cheating, and tell that person after the section's done that their test won't be counted. That would avoid screwing everybody else over by causing a fuss.

[Charles]

True. They don't seem to actually have a plan for what to do in the even that someone's caught cheating. It's essential to have a plan for during the listening section. They should just take a note of who's cheating, and tell that person after the section's done that their test won't be counted. That would avoid screwing everybody else over by causing a fuss.

I don't understand how you could cheat during the listening section. Did they have a microphone and 2-way radio rig?

[omae mona]

True. They don't seem to actually have a plan for what to do in the even that someone's caught cheating. It's essential to have a plan for during the listening section. They should just take a note of who's cheating, and tell that person after the section's done that their test won't be counted. That would avoid screwing everybody else over by causing a fuss.

I don't understand how you could cheat during the listening section. Did they have a microphone and 2-way radio rig?

I'm not sure. I was trying to concentrate, so I didn't look closely. But during the first section of the test, I watched the guy open his booklet while they were still handing booklets out, and he started text messaging somebody with his keitai. That takes some nerve... but he got away with it for a while at least. Not sure if that's what he was doing when he got busted. I did see them pull some papers out of his desk after he was ejected.

Anyway, I'm ticked off. It was very poorly handled. If it turns out I miss the passing grade by one question, I'll be writing some letters.

[omae mona]

I don't understand how you could cheat during the listening section. Did they have a microphone and 2-way radio rig?

Ooh, and I forgot to mention. According to my teacher, the busts in Japan (6 last year I think) tend to be for people who are gathering questions/answers and transmitting them to, say, California, where the exam happens 17 hours later. Sellers can make very large bundles of cash, apparently.

[nigerian_nampa]

I don't understand how you could cheat during the listening section. Did they have a microphone and 2-way radio rig?

Somebody in my test building was complaining that some girls people hand their keitais in hand and were recieving messages during the listening section.

oh, and I forgot to mention. According to my teacher, the busts in Japan (6 last year I think) tend to be for people who are gathering questions/answers and transmitting them to, say, California, where the exam happens 17 hours later. Sellers can make very large bundles of cash, apparently.

In my room one girl got kicked out during the kanji/vocab section, apparently because while she was completing the test, she was also writing all the answers on a separate sheet of paper as well. Obviously she was going to tell someone else the answers. She was in the front row, and got booted pretty quickly.

[Charles]

Interesting.. I had heard of the time-zone cheating method before, but I hadn't considered it would be easier with text messaging via keitai.

I'll tell you a weird story. A long time ago, before I ever started studying Japanese, I used to live in Little Tokyo in LA. One day I was walking home past the Japanese Cultural Center, and I found a pencil with incomprehensible little symbols inscribed all over it. I thought it was so odd, I kept it.
Years and years later, I takking Japanese classes, and I ran across the pencil in a drawer. And now I instantly knew what it was, a crib sheet for the JLPT. Except this was a crib sheet for Level FOUR. It had idiotic stuff like the kanji for numbers 1 through 9, morning noon night, etc. Jeez, if you have to cheat on level FOUR, you're hopeless. L4 is about the most worthless exam you could take, what kind of person needs to pass L4 so badly they would cheat?

[Samurai_Jerk]

I guess if someone is using wireless to send answers as they go they need to stop them right away. But they could just take the device away and then eject them after the section. Otherwise, I agree with NN. Just take note of whose cheating and wait till the section is done before you even aproach them.

When I took level 3 back in '99 there were certain people that would keep going after the time was up and wisper to each other during the test. They were all Chinese as I remember. I wonder if that's just coincidence or national culture.

[Charles]

When I took level 3 back in '99 there were certain people that would keep going after the time was up and wisper to each other during the test. They were all Chinese as I remember. I wonder if that's just coincidence or national culture.

Sounds familiar. One of my Japanese friends told me about a comp sci class he took, he said he couldn't compete because the class was full of Chinese students who cheated. They even set up a BBS online to assist them in cheating on programming assignments. I looked at it, of course I can't read Chinese but it was pretty obvious what they were doing, from looking at the code being posted. They must believe they're immune because nobody can ever prove they're cheating unless they're fluent in Chinese.

[kamome]

The test-takers I supervised were informed of a zero-tolerance policy for cell phones. If I had seen anyone with a cellphone in their hand, they would have been ejected. But I could see other proctors not running a tight ship and not paying attention to individuals hiding a phone in the classroom. I would never have guessed that people in Japan are paid to track answers and send them to test-takers in the U.S. That's news to me.

[cstaylor]

Sounds familiar. One of my Japanese friends told me about a comp sci class he took, he said he couldn't compete because the class was full of Chinese students who cheated. They even set up a BBS online to assist them in cheating on programming assignments. I looked at it, of course I can't read Chinese but it was pretty obvious what they were doing, from looking at the code being posted. They must believe they're immune because nobody can ever prove they're cheating unless they're fluent in Chinese.

That happened when I was getting my computer science degree. The good teachers figure it out pretty quickly when the student aces the homework assignments, yet can't rub two statements together into a compiling program.

[ichigo partygirl]

totally off the topic but did anyone else feel really really dumb when the 5 year old japanese kids left after like a second...........