bullet proof dvdr archives

[kotatsuneko]

so i have years of data sitting on good dvdrs , but i want to make 3 archives using the best media available.

i read ages back that kodak are excellent but can't find a uk dealer.

any thoughts on which brand i should go for (I want the media to be good for at least 10-15 years)

cheers!

[emperor]

why not just wait till blu-ray or hd-dvd writables are out and reasonably priced - if you have so many dvds - this will mean having to store much less physically
i have a thousand cds full of data that i was considering adding to the dvds but i guess ill wait till these new discs are out..

[Charles]

From what I heard, gold-backed DVD/CDRs have the best longevity, but you have to make sure it's real gold and not just gold colored. Also Taiyo-Yuden seems to follow the specs most closely and have good ratings for longevity, but that's surely because Taiyo-Yuden created part of the specs. The Kodak discs were rated highly because of a special no-scratch coating, but this would be less of a concern in backups, it's designed to help discs that are handled a lot.
I personally use only Sony CDR/DVD-Rs, they used to repackage Taiyo-Yuden manufactured CDRs. It's a premium brand, costs a bit more but I've never had a problem. The big problems with longevity seems to come with the cheapo generic media, some people have reported discs that went bad in just a few months.

One thing that's very important, NEVER put self-adhesive labels on archive CD/DVDs, the adhesive will eventually penetrate the disc and can cause the layers to delaminate. Also be sure to use a pen that is safe for writing on optical media. Sharpies are NOT safe, the ink will penetrate the plastic layers, and could rot the data layer eventually. I use a Staedtler Lumocolor CD-R Pen, it's specifically made for writing on optical media. I bought a 4-pack at Staples for a few bucks, you could probably order them online.

BTW, I just downloaded a .pdf report on media testing from the NIST, but I can't seem to find it, I haven't even had a chance to read it yet. I'll dig around for it.

[kotatsuneko]

blu ray would be ideal, thing is it will take a good long time until the pc drives and media are at a sensible price, and i need to make good archives of my current data (around 2-3 terra) now rather than next year.

ta for that info Charles. It seems like kodak dvds are simply not sold in the uk anymore, a week of looking on and off hasnt turned up anything.

I have found some reasonable sources for TDK media, a problem with Sony media is that I have only been able to find vendors selling them in caketubs of 25, whereas I clearly need a few hundred. I think I`ll pop into soho this week and ask around the film/print repro places and take a look at some discs and get more info.

thanks for the other info also, I appreciate it. my discs are kept in caselogic cases stored vertically in a cupboard where the humidity rarely changes and never put anything onto the disc itself , thats just asking for trouble ..

[FG Lurker]

I missed your original post kotatsuneko...

blu ray would be ideal, thing is it will take a good long time until the pc drives and media are at a sensible price, and i need to make good archives of my current data (around 2-3 terra) now rather than next year.

Yikes, what do you have that is taking up so much space?? Wow.

I agree, Blu Ray is still awhile off in any sort of affordable form. 1.5 years at least.

ta for that info Charles. It seems like kodak dvds are simply not sold in the uk anymore, a week of looking on and off hasnt turned up anything.

I *think* that Kodak stopped making media. I might be wrong on this, but that is my recollection. A brief look at the kodak.com web site doesn't show optical media as a listed product.

Charles mentioned Taiyo Yuden media, and that would be my suggestion too. I used their CDRs for years and now their DVDRs too and have never had a bad disc. That's a pretty good record.

No-name brand DVDRs should be avoided at all costs but I am sure you are aware of that already.

Many people love Sony...I am not one of those people. I know optical and magnetic media are totally different, but all the crap magnetic media that Sony produced over the years (digital & analogue tape as well as floppies) makes it impossible for me to trust them. Add to that their abominable repair service (here in Japan anyway) and their shockingly bad computer support website... Basically I refuse to buy Sony products.

Heh, enough rant on Sony. I hope you get the media you need and that your backup goes smoothly. I suggest using Nero (with copy verify turned on) to copy your discs.

Ian

[Charles]

BTW, I just found Sony DVD-R spindles of 50 for the first time, I never saw anything more than 25s before. In case you're interested, the part number is 50DMR47LS3. I bought one and I've got about a dozen DVDs archived for my year-end backups. This is all painfully slow because my 2x DVDR drive only writes at 1x unless you've got 2x media, if it senses 4x media (or higher) it slows down to 1x.. grrr..

[FG Lurker]

BTW, I just found Sony DVD-R spindles of 50 for the first time, I never saw anything more than 25s before. In case you're interested, the part number is 50DMR47LS3. I bought one and I've got about a dozen DVDs archived for my year-end backups. This is all painfully slow because my 2x DVDR drive only writes at 1x unless you've got 2x media, if it senses 4x media (or higher) it slows down to 1x.. grrr..

With 8x DVDR drives well under 10,000yen now I suggest an upgrade. Even if you're stuck with a notebook you can upgrade -- either via an external drive or a 4x internal notebook one.

If you go external then I recommend firewire over USB2. Much lower CPU usage for the high data rates.

[Charles]

With 8x DVDR drives well under 10,000yen now I suggest an upgrade. Even if you're stuck with a notebook you can upgrade -- either via an external drive or a 4x internal notebook one.

Yeah, I'm thinking of replacing the DVDR drive in my PowerMac, but I'm not sure I can get ahold of something that's perfectly firmware-compatible with the Apple apps like DVD Studio Pro, etc. Some of them are pretty picky about what drive they'll burn to, some only work with official Apple firmware in the drive. And I hate to work with flaky workarounds like PatchBurn.
This is just a stupid quirk of firmware, the original 2x DVDR drives from Apple worked at 2x with 2x media, but freaked out and destroyed themselves if they ever tried to burn on 4x media. So they updated the firmware to limit the drive to 1x for anything over 2x media. This wasn't such a problem until Apple stopped selling 2x media, they sold the cheapest 2x brand-name media around.

[FG Lurker]

Damn, that sucks.

I just about bought a Mac as my upgrade this past summer... It was very very close. In the end I spent the 220,000 on a brand new custom PC instead. I love Mac OS X, but I certainly don't need quirks like that.

I bought this:

Athlon 64 3500+ (Socket 939)
2GB PC3200 DDR RAM
36GB 10,000rpm WD SATA Raptor HDD
2 x 200GB 7200rpm Seagate drives for data
16x DVD Reader / 48x CDR Multidrive
12x DVD -/+/RAM Writer (LG) (12x +, 8x -, 5x RAM)
Coolermaster Stacker Full Tower (very nice design)
Standard 3.5" FDD with a USB2 card reader built in
ATI 9600 video
And the normal bits and pieces to go with it.

I use it with my 22" Mitsubishi CRT from before.

I hope you find a workable upgrade for your Mac. Burning at 1x really sucks...

Ian

[Charles]

I love Mac OS X, but I certainly don't need quirks like that. :(

Well, that's what you get when you're an early adopter. There wasn't any such thing as a 4x drive when I bought the machine, I think it was well over a year before they came out. So it's not like this problem was forseeable, or Mac-specific for that matter, anyone with this drive in their PC had the same problem.

Anyway, I'm very happy overall with my old PowerMac dual 1Ghz G4, it's been a very good long-term value.

[cstaylor]

Anyway, I'm very happy overall with my old PowerMac dual 1Ghz G4, it's been a very good long-term value.

Same here (I have an older 867mhz w/23" Cinema Display), and I replaced my dying Superdrive with a LaCie internal CD-RW/DVD-RW drive without any trouble.

I have not tested writing from DVD Studio Pro, but I have successfully written bootable DVD-R's using Toast from OS 10.3.7.

[Charles]

I have not tested writing from DVD Studio Pro, but I have successfully written bootable DVD-R's using Toast from OS 10.3.7.

Toast can write to any drive, but apps like iDVD and DVDSP are very particular, they don't want to run on anything but Apple-supplied drives. LaCie seems to do well with compatibility, though. And I hear that PatchBurn works well at tricking the system into accepting 3rd party drives.
I was really tempted to buy a real Apple 4x drive from OWC, they had some that were apparently service parts and were real Apple product. But it cost about the same as the new 8x drives, so I still haven't decided what to do.

[cstaylor]

I have not tested writing from DVD Studio Pro, but I have successfully written bootable DVD-R's using Toast from OS 10.3.7.

Toast can write to any drive, but apps like iDVD and DVDSP are very particular, they don't want to run on anything but Apple-supplied drives. LaCie seems to do well with compatibility, though. And I hear that PatchBurn works well at tricking the system into accepting 3rd party drives.
I was really tempted to buy a real Apple 4x drive from OWC, they had some that were apparently service parts and were real Apple product. But it cost about the same as the new 8x drives, so I still haven't decided what to do.

If I find some time, I'll burn one in DVD Studio Pro 2.0 on the LaCie and tell you how it turns out.

[FG Lurker]

I love Mac OS X, but I certainly don't need quirks like that.

Well, that's what you get when you're an early adopter. There wasn't any such thing as a 4x drive when I bought the machine, I think it was well over a year before they came out. So it's not like this problem was forseeable, or Mac-specific for that matter, anyone with this drive in their PC had the same problem.

Agreed that it was not foreseeable or Mac-specific. But with most x86-based machines you would just yank the 2x drive and drop in an 8,000yen 8x or 12x replacement. This type of thing is the biggest point that has kept me on x86.

I started with Apple. Well, an Apple II+ clone in about 1984. I had been using Apple IIs since 1979 or 80. Then I went to Atari with a 520ST, and then back to Apple with a Mac Plus. I moved to x86-based stuff because I needed it for what I was doing at the time. The ability to do whatever I wished with the hardware has kept me on x86 until now...

I'm still thinking about getting a Mac though. We'll see what IBM does with the 970 chip and dual cores. The Power 5 is an awesome architecture, and IBM has the best chip designers in the world. My next machine might end up being a Mac.

Ian

[mas]

To tell the truth, I usually find myself using Toast to burn anything (even though my drive is supported by the iApps). I do think that DVD StudioPro can burn to non-iApp supported drives, though.

As for getting a Mac, I just bought a new iBook G4. It was amazingly cheap and pretty well configured for a Mac. Of course, I got the new iMac lust (and then there's this). Curse you Apple for separating me from my money!

[Charles]

I do think that DVD StudioPro can burn to non-iApp supported drives, though.

I heard this is true of the new DVDSP 3, but the old v2 didn't accept anything but original Apple drives. But since I don't have an unsupported DVDR drive, I have no way to confirm this on either version.