A question for you Limeys

[Samurai_Jerk]

When I was in Japan I had friends from all over the English speaking world (not to mention the non English speaking world). One thing that I seemed to notice was that only the English seemed to generally hate their motherland. While other people seemed to miss home or at least have some nice things to say about it, the English would usually talk about how horrible it was and either wanted to stay in Japan or move to another country when their stint there was done. I used to think it might have just been the people I met, but then I remember reading something in the news last year that said that according to a poll an unusually high number of Brits wished they could live abroad (The US coming in as the most popular desitination).

My question is this: What's so bad about England?

Note: I've never been to England or anywhere else in the UK so I'm not bashing here. I'm genuinely curious.

[Failsafe]

When I was in Japan I had friends from all over the English speaking world (not to mention the non English speaking world). One thing that I seemed to notice was that only the English seemed to generally hate their motherland. While other people seemed to miss home or at least have some nice things to say about it, the English would usually talk about how horrible it was and either wanted to stay in Japan or move to another country when their stint there was done. I used to think it might have just been the people I met, but then I remember reading something in the news last year that said that according to a poll an unusually high number of Brits wished they could live abroad (The US coming in as the most popular desitination).

My question is this: What's so bad about England?

Note: I've never been to England or anywhere else in the UK so I'm not bashing here. I'm genuinely curious.

I know what you mean, its a nice place to live and i think English people forget how good it really is but many younger people are not so proud of their country, you could kind of say they are a bit ashamed of the past but its more they just cant relate to it.

The bad points of England are that its expensive, the girls are too fucked up and just hard work for nothing not to mention they are getting fatter and ruder by the day, the youths all think they are little gangsters and thats not just in London, Manchester etc. the people are rude and angry and the house prices are insance but after more than a few months away i do miss being in England, saying that, Japan is very much the same at times.

[Steve Bildermann]

[Failsafe]

http://www.crackcocaineincamden.co.uk very good

[adamoo]

i think it's more just that english people are less inclined to go in for the whole patriotism scene. it's certainly struck me in the past that a majority of americans and australians i've met here (i'm australian before anyone accuses me of anything) like to wear their nationalities on their sleeve, whereas the british people i've met haven't really been like that. australian people in particular are infatuated with the idea of classifying everyone according to where they come from, and most (not all) of the americans i've met here are fiercely patriotic when drawn into any discussion over countries. i dunno, horses for courses.

[Samurai_Jerk]

i think it's more just that english people are less inclined to go in for the whole patriotism scene. it's certainly struck me in the past that a majority of americans and australians i've met here (i'm australian before anyone accuses me of anything) like to wear their nationalities on their sleeve, whereas the british people i've met haven't really been like that. australian people in particular are infatuated with the idea of classifying everyone according to where they come from, and most (not all) of the americans i've met here are fiercely patriotic when drawn into any discussion over countries. i dunno, horses for courses.

It's one thing to not be overly patriotic and another to bash your country. BTW, I always found Canadians to be the most patriotic/nationalistic.

[sillygirl]

It's the crappy weather I don't like in England.

As I said before, I'm going back to live in Uk in March, after 12 years away. My family and friends are all like 'ooh, England's really changed since you last lived here.' When I ask how, they are pretty vague, but apparently UK is super expensive these days.

Hang on a few months and I'll report back my impressions of what's up with old Blighty

P.S I'm really looking forward to going back now. There's so many cool things about UK that Japan doesn't have. Plus can't wait to watch telly. Really missed Brit humour!

[Charles]

...english people are...australian people in particular are...americans i've met here are..

Spoken like a true ozzie.

[Taro Toporific]

VS

NO CONTEST Steve.

[DJEB]

Let's see... Two conservatives and one Labour guy who thinks he's a conservative...

More suicides under Conservative rule

The suicide rate increases under Conservative governments, research suggests.
Australian scientists found the suicide rate in the country increased significantly when a Conservative government was in power.

And an analysis of figures in the UK seems to suggest a similar trend.

The Australian team analysed suicide statistics for New South Wales between 1901, when the federal government was established, and 1998.

They then looked at the political regimes dominating both state and federal governments in New South Wales, which have consistently been under either Labour or Conservative control.

The researchers took into account periods of drought and World War II, because of their economic and psychological impact.

Suicide rates were higher during periods of drought and lower during WWII.

But after adjusting for these factors, the figures clearly showed the highest rates of suicide occurred when both Conservative state and federal governments were in power.

[james]

i'm going to agree that we're notorious for wrapping ourselves in the flag. i think it's a relatively benign patriotism though. i don't get all indignant if someone mistakes me for an american though many canadians do. i think spending a good deal outside of your home country is a good way to get a different perspective of things.

and while certain generalizations about people from certain countries can often be true, i'd rather get to know someone for who they are rather than where they come from.

i have to admit, i don't know much about england. i've heard negatives about the food and the women. still, i'd like to visit sometime.

oh yeah - you guys sold us those crappy submarines. though i mostly blame the canadian gov't for being so cheap and stupid.

[ramchop]

[Steve Bildermann]

[DJEB]

Canadians? We love to burn our own flag at times just because no one cares.


I think I can speak for Jez on the issue of England. He feels an attachment to the geography and the people of his region but nothing for the nation-state of England.

[tatsujin]

It's one thing to not be overly patriotic and another to bash your country. BTW, I always found Canadians to be the most patriotic/nationalistic.

I've always found the Irish to be quite patriotic, but I agree with you also on the Canadian, Aussies would also fall into the same category.

I happen to live with an English lad and he tends to play down the fact he's English, which is the general tendency amongst most English people I know - especially if they are abroad.

I don't want to comment myself but the opinion of English people isn't the most favourable in Ireland, and in most European countries. Quite strangely the English are held in very high regard in America (correct me if I'm wrong!)

I've heard of the mass exodus from England by middle-class families, mainly to France and New Zealand. I remember an article in The Times that went into greater detail.

Mulboyne, your generally clued up on current affairs, does this ring true?

[mas]

...most of the americans i've met here are fiercely patriotic when drawn into any discussion over countries.

[Adhesive]

[Mulboyne]

The British have changed relationship with world over the years. Remember also that Britain means English, Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish at the very least so you have different national identities to deal with. You can still find Welsh communities in South America while the Scottish legacy still remains in the old Asian outposts of the British Empire (HSBC, Jardine etc). The English left more of an imprint in Zimbabwe and South Africa.
An odd post-war development is that the British Diaspora has a love/hate relationship with the old country. Other diasporas, Irish, Italian, Philippino, Jewish, Chinese in particular, seem to be very close communities in a foreign country and have kept close ties with families back home. It is perhaps no coincidence that all those other countries/identities are well known for large and close family ties.
A lot of English families, in particular, left in the 1970's when the UK economy was on its knees and many disliked the social trends developing in the main urban centres. To put it bluntly, they didn't like the West Indians, Pakistanis etc who were coming into the from the Commmonwealth. Countries like Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and Canada became common destinations for white English families. I remember getting on a bus in New Zealand two years ago and finding out the driver was from Bow in central London, a few minutes walk from my flat. It turned out he had jumped ship years ago "to get away from all the darkies". When his mother had died, he sold his family home in Bow and set up in New Zealand where he said he was making a decent living but still scraping by. I told him his house in Bow, a decent sized place, was now worth, at a conservative estimate, one million pounds, and I'm sure he still thinks I was joking.
So while these communities may have stuck together in their new home, they tended to view the old country as something of a lost cause. By the time their children grew up, they didn't feel especially British.

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned class so far. Although Prime Minister Major famously declared Britain to be a "classless" society and it is less class-bound than before, I personally still believe that class plays a big role in how people conduct themselves in Britain. As soon as you step overseas, you can stop being a middle-class Londoner or a working-class Geordie and start being "British". I've heard people make fun of Japanese who say they feel "free" when they go overseas but, even today, I wouldn't underestimate this as a motive for British going overseas. It was a major reason that ambitious Scots, Irish and Welsh went abroad and it was true for English in the seventies and early eighties. Another parallel with Japan is that successful expats often found it difficult to be accepted at home when they returned. It is easier now but I have many British friends who felt better-appreciated overseas than at home even today.
Don't forget self-deprecation either. You might hear someone disparaging his home country and assume he doesn't care for it. He might even laugh along if you make jokes about his country too but some British aren't comfortable talking themseves up. One of the ironies is that the same expats from Malaga to Hong Kong who routinely rubbish the home country are the first to take offence if someone else decides to have a crack at the Queen, football, the BBC etc.
Today, the UK economy is strong but the quality of life can be poor. Housing is expensive and you can no longer take for granted that your children can go to the local school. My school was a mile away and they had to take me. Now, good schools are permitted to accept pupils from anywhere; to allow them to do that, they were allowed to reduce their radius. To get into my old school, you would need to live in one of only ten houses which still qualify for automatic entry.
To deal with this, some British families have bought homes in Spain, Portugal, Italy and France and are making new lives. Others have bought holiday cottages or retirement homes with a view to the future. Not many of these people are speaking well of the homeland.

I seem to see fewer British in Japan than in years gone by. Before the JET programmme was established, there was a British BET programme and, even after the programmes were combined, British applicants were fairly numerous. This doesn't seem to be true today so I'm much more likely to be meeting American and Australian "westerners". That makes for less of a local British community than before. Yokohama and Kobe were always big British hang-outs going back to the 19th century but the old businesses which sustained British communities no longer exist. If I was any good at football then I'd probably see more British since a lot of ALTs turn up in teams here. Since I've mentioned football in this ramble, I'll point you to a story I gratuitously dropped into an earlier FG thread HERE which is a fair example of how some British act towards each other in Japan.

[tatsujin]

Thanks Mulboyne, excellent article!

[Max The Doorman]

Thatcher's Britain! Reason I came to Japan! That woman will be the end of us!

[Samurai_Jerk]

Quite strangely the English are held in very high regard in America (correct me if I'm wrong!)

You are correct. Unless you're talking to an Irish American. They're probably the most anti-English nationalistic Irish people in the world. When I was growing up in NYC Irish pubs would have IRA fundraising nights.

[DJEB]

I know what a moraine is. What is a moran?

[Blah Pete]

I know what a moraine is. What is a moran?

fark.com

Become a farker and find out.

The pic is of a anti-anti Iraq war protestor. His sign has been slightly Photoshopped.

[Charles]

The pic is of a anti-anti Iraq war protestor. His sign has been slightly Photoshopped.

Nope, that photo is authentic, it wasn't photoshopped. It didn't originate on Fark, but it has become an icon throughout the internet including Fark.

[goldenboy_ge]

http://www.crackcocaineincamden.co.uk very good

I like the 3rd person very much

I also got to admit that British people tend to be more reserved, as well as Canadians and Aussies for my personal experience.
I've seen some who stood up and said they were proud of being British. Anyway, I got no problem with it because I like the Brits, even though they still go after the Germans with really bad jokes, especially the English media. I really don't care about it at all, because there are a lot of people in the island who likes us and the Queen too I like her. I like the British humor, the RAF (Royal Air Force), and ur ladies Their aren't that bad or not? The food thing, all we hear is fish and chips - and the whole world likely associates you with it.

About the rude kids and fat woman- believe me, u'll see them across whole Europe. It's not only a British issue, ok maybe the ladies in France still very sexy and the French kiddies might be less rude then others in Europe :P .
I don't care about the peoples nationality, because it doesn't tell me about his character at all.

By the way James: Don't u have German submarines? And I think it's time to upgrade ur Leopard 1 C2? tanks to Leopard 2 A6 standard I heard some opinions from Canadian tankers who really would like to switch to the new version.