Softbank gets coy about KDDI proposal

[Mulboyne]

Kyodo via Yahoo: Softbank offers to buy 3 Tu-Ka units for 200 bil. yen

Internet investor Softbank Corp. has offered to acquire three Tu-Ka mobile service firms from KDDI Corp. for more than 200 billion yen, a leading Japanese economic daily reported Saturday.

Or maybe they haven't
Bloomberg: Softbank Denies Report It Offered to Purchase Three KDDI Units

Softbank Corp., Japan's second-largest high-speed Internet access provider, denied a newspaper report that said it offered to buy three wireless units of KDDI Corp. "There are no such facts," said Takeaki Nukii, a Softbank spokesman in Tokyo, when asked about the Nihon Keizai article. KDDI spokesman Haruhiko Maede declined to comment.

[Skankster]

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being coy???


Sounds to me that rather than acquire the 3 companies - which they are likely not able to acquire - they are trying to prove the cellphone market is Anti-Competitive

the denial is all the more proof of that.

Watch them win! :P

[FG Lurker]

Does anyone actually use Tu-ka anymore? It's been several years since I have even seen a Tu-ka phone... The shop down the street is always empty, even when the Vodafone / AU / Docomo shops in the same area have several (or more) customers each.

I always feel bad for the Tu-ka folks in the shop actually. Nothing to do all day, basically waiting for the company to go under.

[Skankster]

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That is why it is a great try-buy.

It is loosing money and Softbank offers money for it -- effectively more than it is worth.

They say no.... the market is closed= Monopoly
They say Yes... Softbank gets Market entry and the Ministry must give part of that Bandwith Spectrum to Softbank.

Beatiful plan.

[FG Lurker]

That is why it is a great try-buy.

It is loosing money and Softbank offers money for it -- effectively more than it is worth.

They say no.... the market is closed= Monopoly
They say Yes... Softbank gets Market entry and the Ministry must give part of that Bandwith Spectrum to Softbank.

Beatiful plan.

A closed market doesn't mean a monopoly. There are 4 cellular brands in Japan, effectively 3 since KDDI controls AU and TuKa. There might not be a lot of price competition, but a monopoly it's not.

Softbank might go and complain to the ministry, but I can't see what good that would do them.

Softbank: "KDDI refused to sell TuKa to us..."
Ministry: "Uh-huh. Hey, pass me that ashtray would you?"

[killjoy]

As Son-san sells off pieces of Yahoo stock to pay for his telecom empire, I can't believe the stock will be worth much more than his stake in yahoo Japan.

Buying Tsuka or even letting that story out just gives people the impression that he is ready to burn more money to show he is changing Japan...I know people who think he is a genius but.....he just seems to be turning into a version of NTT and now all he needs is the cellular part to be a clone...

[Skankster]

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killjoy >>

the cellphone industry is a high profit market. That is why he is going there.
and how do you know that he is selling off Yahoo shares?


FGLurker >>

It is called oligopoly. Oligopoly is not neccessary illegal but they cannot do anything to stop/stifle competition.
The current ministry is doing exactly that: Stifling competition by not allowing other competitors.
They have submitted no evidence that the entry of another competitor would destabilize the industry and quality of service...
While in the meantime Softbank has proved that their entry into the market would reduce rates for the consumer.

So effectively you have the Amakudari system (the system of former ministry officials accepting plush industry jobs in exchange for influence over decisions made by the ministry; ie: kickbacks, etc. to current ministry officials) that is costing the consumer dearly.

I hope you now understand Japan Inc 101

[FG Lurker]

FGLurker >>

It is called oligopoly. Oligopoly is not neccessary illegal but they cannot do anything to stop/stifle competition.
The current ministry is doing exactly that: Stifling competition by not allowing other competitors.
They have submitted no evidence that the entry of another competitor would destabilize the industry and quality of service...
While in the meantime Softbank has proved that their entry into the market would reduce rates for the consumer.

So effectively you have the Amakudari system (the system of former ministry officials accepting plush industry jobs in exchange for influence over decisions made by the ministry]I hope you now understand Japan Inc 101[/size]

I am well acquainted with Japanese business practices.

What you wrote before was that the cellular industry in Japan was a monopoly. While the industry does not complete much on price (as I wrote above) it is also not a monopoly.

Although Tuka does offer lower prices than other companies, basically I agree that the industry is an oligopoly. Whether Son would have the ability to build Tuka into a reasonable competitor or not is somewhat debatable. Tuka's coverage is very poor compared to the "big 3" and fixing this would take a lot of investment.

In its current state even if Tuka was half the cost of Vodafone I wouldn't be able to switch. Cheap is no good if it doesn't work.

[Skankster]

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In its current state even if Tuka was half the cost of Vodafone I wouldn't be able to switch. Cheap is no good if it doesn't work.

I guess you dont know that there is momentum towards allowing consumers to keep their # even when changing carrier

This is another fight that Son can take up upon legal grounds.
He has reasonable legal ground to be able to expidite this too.

While the industry does not complete much on price (as I wrote above) it is also not a monopoly.

the amakudari system makes the oligopoly more like that of a monopoly.
Go figure - executives are <deep> in league with the ministry that delegates usable bandwidth...
bandwith is limited...
etc.
It is a step above oligopoly; yet a step below monopoly.
I only meant monopoly figuratively. I didnt think I would have to break it down.[/quote]

[killjoy]

From 2001 to 2004, Softbank sold or entered into forward contracts to sell 113 million + shares of Yahoo US to raise about 2.3 Billion USD to pay for their broadband investments. Son-san has also sold about 2 billion USD in other investments to fund their BB marketing.

When Softbank buys a cellular carrier, like Tsuka, he will have to revamp their infrastructure while cutting prices which he wants to do.

He is very successful and brought a lot of change which is good, but as far as business 101 goes, it hasn't been so good for his investors, and they will have to wait even longer for profits iwhen he invests in a cellular carrier.

My point is, as a customer I will benefit from more competition that he brings and lower prices, but at the end of the road, Softbank will look like NTT; large, probably not as quick to move due to regulations, and with a low margin of profitability.

[FG Lurker]

In its current state even if Tuka was half the cost of Vodafone I wouldn't be able to switch. Cheap is no good if it doesn't work.

I guess you dont know that there is momentum towards allowing consumers to keep their # even when changing carrier

Hasn't everyone heard this at least once? The rumour has flown around several times in the past few years. Sometimes with a "start date" attached to it, sometimes not.

Docomo would be the biggest net loser if this ever became a reality. And that's just the problem -- Docomo wields the most power and it will be a cold day in hell before they let it happen. I'm sure hell has the occasional chilly day but I'm not holding my breath until the next one comes around. ]This is another fight that Son can take up upon legal grounds.
He has reasonable legal ground to be able to expidite this too.[/quote]
Legal grounds? Expedite?? You're talking about Japan, right? When was the last time something done based on "legal grounds" happened quickly in Japan? Admittedly I've only been here 10 years, but at least during that time I don't remember anything major happening quickly through the Japanese legal system.

I think what you want to say is that if Son can get a foot in the door of the cellular market here he can use that to embarrass the established players and ministry through the media. If he can create enough media attention *and* keep the micro-attention-span Japanese public focused on it long enough he'd have at least a chance of making some progress.

While the industry does not complete much on price (as I wrote above) it is also not a monopoly.

the amakudari system makes the oligopoly more like that of a monopoly.
Go figure - executives are <deep> in league with the ministry that delegates usable bandwidth...
bandwith is limited...
etc.
It is a step above oligopoly]
Again, I think what you mean is not quite what you wrote. I think what you want to say is that the Japanese cellular market is an oligopoly with the members likely colluding to keep prices and therefore profits high.

There are still significant differences between an oligopoly + "fraudulent business practices" (collusion) and a monopoly.

I think we agree on the basics here though... The current cellular providers in Japan are hoping to keep prices as high as possible for as long as possible. Letting Son into the market would be like letting a fox into a henhouse...

I hope that he does get in and does manage to stir up some major shit.

For myself he would have to improve the Tuka network considerably before I would be able to use it. I need good service in the city and in a rural location in Okayama where my keitai is the only link to the outside world.

[killjoy]

also, since I have been banned from AU, Vodafone and Tsuka for unpaid bills, I would really like Son-san to start a new cellphone service so I have some choice from Docomo

[FG Lurker]

:oops: also, since I have been banned from AU, Vodafone and Tsuka for unpaid bills, I would really like Son-san to start a new cellphone service so I have some choice from Docomo

Unpaid bills? That's not so good dude.

[killjoy]

Yep, that was not a good experience to be responsible for, and I hope to pay them off. Actually, it requires a plan so after I pay my unpaid taxes, that would be 3rd on the list after some other debts

On the plus side......I learned about the legal system and it didn't kill me......

[FG Lurker]

Yep, that was not a good experience to be responsible for, and I hope to pay them off. Actually, it requires a plan so after I pay my unpaid taxes, that would be 3rd on the list after some other debts

On the plus side......I learned about the legal system and it didn't kill me......

Shit... Sounds like a rough period to have gone through.

I once had to pay about 200,000yen to NTT because my ISDN TA fucked up. The TA was constantly trying to connect to my ISP at 128K instead of 64K. Fuckers at NTT never called to warn me that my line was doing very odd things and they insisted that I pay 10yen for each and every less-than-one-second long connection.

I couldn't speak enough Japanese to fight with them at the time and ended up paying the bill. I despise NTT because of that and it has cost them a considerable amount of business -- far more than the 200,000 they extorted out of this fucked gaijin.

[killjoy]

Wow, of the many reasons to dislike NTT, that is big. I always hated arguing with them and their staff because they were just ......focused on the problem and how to explain to me that I had no choice. Their whole approach seems to be once you realize you have no choice, you will accept it and leave.

It is nice now to be able to avoid them whenever possible. However, they did teach me to argue in Japanese after long painful hours spent in their offices, not that it was how to successfully win an arguement