Dell's Rollins dismisses iPod as a 'fad'

[FG Lurker]

Dell's Rollins dismisses iPod as a 'fad'
By Andy McCue Silicon.com January 18, 2005, 8:19 AM PT

ROUND ROCK, Texas--Dell Chief Executive Kevin Rollins is dismissing the iPod as a "fad" and a "one-product wonder" and claiming the new Mac Mini won't dent the PC market.

In an interview with Silicon.com at Dell's headquarters here last week, Rollins said that the number of headlines Apple grabs does not worry him and that the company isn't "in the same league" as Dell.

"It's interesting the iPod has been out for three years and it's only this past year it's become a raging success," said Rollins, who is also Dell's president. "Well, those things that become fads rage, and then they drop off. When I was growing up there was a product made by Sony called the Sony Walkman--a rage, everyone had to have one. Well, you don't hear about the Walkman anymore. I believe that one-product wonders come and go. You have to have sustainable business models, sustainable strategy."

(Full Story)

Holy shit, what has Rollins been smoking? Whatever it is he should be able to afford something better...

Talk about being out of touch with the consumer world!

"Well, you don't hear about the Walkman anymore." Hmm, I wonder why that could be. It's a tough question but perhaps because it was replaced with the Discman, which has now been replaced by *cough* the iPod? Naaaaaah, couldn't be it.

Hint to Rollins: It's not a fad. It's the evolution of portable music, and right now it is being driven by Apple and their iPod.

[puargs]

I dunno, I think the Ipod is a great machine, but for the price, is just a little bit too much. However, there are many machines like it that are less money... it just proves that the whole thing is not a fad, people are just really enjoying portable music on the cheap (comparatively with yesteryear, anyway).

[FG Lurker]

I dunno, I think the Ipod is a great machine, but for the price, is just a little bit too much. However, there are many machines like it that are less money... it just proves that the whole thing is not a fad, people are just really enjoying portable music on the cheap (comparatively with yesteryear, anyway).

Yes, the iPod is quite pricey. It is still the best option available though by quite a long shot.

That said, I got my 40GB 2nd generation iPod free... No complaints about price from me!

[n e k o b u s]

For now, the Ipod IS a fad. For a time like the walkman, it will be on top. It will be replaced by something else later on. Unless of course, Mac continues to churn out stuff so the Ipods won't go obsolete. Coming from a Dell employee, I'm not surprised to read this. Dell have always thrived on being boring - whatever they sell, they try to outsell their same level competitors by going cheaper or giving more.

[FG Lurker]

For now, the Ipod IS a fad. For a time like the walkman, it will be on top. It will be replaced by something else later on. Unless of course, Mac continues to churn out stuff so the Ipods won't go obsolete. Coming from a Dell employee, I'm not surprised to read this. Dell have always thrived on being boring - whatever they sell, they try to outsell their same level competitors by going cheaper or giving more.

Yes, and it is no surprise that Dell sells computers. Design is simple: plastic box with CD drive, necessary ports for keyboard/mouse/video. That's it. The actual interface to the PC is done by Microsoft so Dell doesn't need to worry about that. Every keyboard and mouse is much the same, so no problem there.

Small consumer devices like iPods and cell phones don't work this way though. The interfaces are not standard and there is a lot of space between various products. That's why the iPod sells so many more units than all other competitors -- its interface is light years ahead of anything else on the market. Until someone comes up with an interface as good or better than the iPod, the iPod won't have any real challengers.

Well, unless Apple fucks everything up somehow...and given their history that's certainly a possibility.

[kotatsuneko]

if the pod:

supported ogg/mcc formats and others

had a better (consumer replaceable)battery life

didn't have issues using non-apple headphones

i probably would have bought one, even tho the wheel thing is really annoying.. there should be a snes tribute version with control pad ^^

as it is, i-river et al, while not having units/controls quite as elegant as the 'pod have much less restrictive tech in place for much less..

thats one thing i don't get, if apple is about creativity/freedom of media etc, how come the pod doesnt fit into that vision?

[Watcher]

Justifiably so. It is a fad.

Fact: It's just an MP3 player.
Fact: There are many MP3 players on the market.
Fact: It is the most recognizable of MP3 players do to unique white monochromatic design and succesful marketing campaign (eye catching print and tv ads featuring hit music before they were hits - Black Eyed Peas and Jet).
Fact: People back winners because it makes them feel like a winner too.

Opinion: iRiver is infinitely better. Rio is infinitely better. Both brands are cheaper. Neither has as physically appealing a design as Apple's minimalism.

Opinion: Apple's Flashpod is crap and I'd rather get an SD expandable player such as Rio or Panasonic. Panasonic's SD players are about 5 years old in design now... and since SD memory is so cheap I wonder why Apple didn't go that route.

Fact: Matsushita has planned a 32GB SD card for 2007.

Here's what I want: Bluetooth camera phone with 3x optical (internal moving like Sony's T series) and at least 3.0megapixels. An SD expanion slot or two. Upgradeable firmware. MP3/Ogg/MP4 player. Bluetooth headphones with remote features. Phone call switching automatically. That would kick ass on the slopes (skiing is a passion).

Fact: This is a Japan board... how come all these apple posts keep getting in here? If you Apple people want to go get all romantic with your fruity products why don't you hang out on Thinksecret.com while it's still there?

[FG Lurker]

if the pod:

supported ogg/mcc formats and others

OGG is a great idea... But it's dead. MP3 is the defacto standard and the iPod supports it wonderfully.

had a better (consumer replaceable)battery life

Do you mean per-charge battery life? It's not bad for my use. I also have an external AA battery pack that doubles the life for overseas plane trips. If you mean the lifespan of the battery it is no better or worse than any other Liion battery. Replacing them is not hard and 3rd party batteries are available.

didn't have issues using non-apple headphones

This is odd... I've never used the Apple headphones and I've never had problems. What issues do you mean?

i probably would have bought one, even tho the wheel thing is really annoying.. there should be a snes tribute version with control pad ^^

The "wheel thing" is great. Like any new control it takes a bit of getting used to, but it is far-and-away the best control of any MP3 player. You can scroll very slowly and with good control or with extreme speed. No other control is as simple or effective.

as it is, i-river et al, while not having units/controls quite as elegant as the 'pod have much less restrictive tech in place for much less..

Much less restrictive? Oh, they let you play WMP formats and OGG... I don't use WMP, and although I admire OGG it is a dead format.

thats one thing i don't get, if apple is about creativity/freedom of media etc, how come the pod doesnt fit into that vision?

Apple is about making money, just like every other corporation. The iPod is the top-selling portable music player because it is the best... It's so much better than everything else around it that people are willing to pay a premium to get it.

I don't own any other Apple products, so I'm not some crazed Mac-nut! But Apple has really hit this one perfectly and I hope they continue in their success. But as I wrote above, Apple has a long history of fucking up good things... Time will tell.

[Charles]

Opinion: iRiver is infinitely better. Rio is infinitely better. Both brands are cheaper. Neither has as physically appealing a design as Apple's minimalism.

The 1Gb iPod costs $150, the iRiver costs over $220 and weighs a ton, and has a crappy design. Seen the Dell DJ? It really really sucks. Design is everything.

Opinion: Apple's Flashpod is crap and I'd rather get an SD expandable player such as Rio or Panasonic. Panasonic's SD players are about 5 years old in design now... and since SD memory is so cheap I wonder why Apple didn't go that route.

512M of SD RAM costs about $40. That's almost half the price of a base iPod, which includes $39 earphones. The iPod Shuffle is basically a USB flash memory stick with headphones, they throw in the battery and music player for free. You can even use it as a USB flash memory stick at the same time you're playing music.
You dont' seem to understand the function of the new iPod. It's designed to plug into your USB port on the side of your keyboard, you just click once in iTunes and load up your playlist. That's a hell of a lot easier than futzing around with those dinky SD memory cards. It's designed as an adjunct to your main music library, it's not intended to carry a huge library of music, if you want that, get an iPod Mini.

Fact: Matsushita has planned a 32GB SD card for 2007.

yeah, I saw that, projected price is something like $5000. Cheap.

Here's what I want: Bluetooth camera phone with 3x optical (internal moving like Sony's T series) and at least 3.0megapixels. An SD expanion slot or two. Upgradeable firmware. MP3/Ogg/MP4 player. Bluetooth headphones with remote features. Phone call switching automatically. That would kick ass on the slopes (skiing is a passion).

Motorola demoed that at CES. The phone comes with iTunes. No ogg, that's a dead format.

Fact: This is a Japan board... how come all these apple posts keep getting in here? If you Apple people want to go get all romantic with your fruity products why don't you hang out on Thinksecret.com while it's still there?

Japan is Apple's #2 market. Apple products are focused on Japan. The Mac Mini is specifically targeted at reviving Mac sales in Japan, more than any other market.

[FG Lurker]

Justifiably so. It is a fad.

Uh-huh, just like the Walkman and Discman before it. Portable digital music players are here to stay. If Apple can keep the iPod as far ahead of other companies as they are now they will continue to have success like they do now.

Fact: It's just an MP3 player.

Fact: It is the best one on the market by a large margin.

Fact: There are many MP3 players on the market.

Fact: None of them comes anywhere near the iPod in usability or design.

Fact: It is the most recognizable of MP3 players do to unique white monochromatic design and succesful marketing campaign (eye catching print and tv ads featuring hit music before they were hits - Black Eyed Peas and Jet).

Fact: This is nothing new for Apple. Since Jobs came back to Apple they have had the best industrial design in the consumer electronics market.

Fact: People back winners because it makes them feel like a winner too.

Fact: People buy the iPod because it is the best. Borrow one. Use it for a few hours. You will understand.

Opinion: iRiver is infinitely better. Rio is infinitely better. Both brands are cheaper. Neither has as physically appealing a design as Apple's minimalism.

Fact: Both are cheaper. If they were both cheaper and better they would outstrip the iPod in sales very rapidly. They haven't. The results speak louder than any one person's opinion.

Opinion: Apple's Flashpod is crap and I'd rather get an SD expandable player such as Rio or Panasonic. Panasonic's SD players are about 5 years old in design now... and since SD memory is so cheap I wonder why Apple didn't go that route.

Fact: The new flash-based iPod is too new to judge at this point.

Fact: Matsushita has planned a 32GB SD card for 2007.

What does this have to do with anything? It's 2-years away at least and is a "plan".

Here's what I want: Bluetooth camera phone with 3x optical (internal moving like Sony's T series) and at least 3.0megapixels. An SD expanion slot or two. Upgradeable firmware. MP3/Ogg/MP4 player. Bluetooth headphones with remote features. Phone call switching automatically. That would kick ass on the slopes (skiing is a passion).

Fact: 3mp in a phone camera is going to look like shit no matter what kind of lens you use. You need larger CCDs to get decent image quality. At the current time phones do not have large enough CCDs. There are also many things more important in a digital camera than raw pixel count. Color accuracy and dynamic range just to name two.

Fact: Batteries don't last well in cold. If your bluetooth headphones don't vanish in your first wipe out they will run out of battery power part way through the day.

Otherwise the phone looks good.

Fact: This is a Japan board... how come all these apple posts keep getting in here? If you Apple people want to go get all romantic with your fruity products why don't you hang out on Thinksecret.com while it's still there?

I am not an "Apple person". I own no other Apple products and I would probably not have bought an iPod if I hadn't got it free. Now that I have it though it is clear why it is so popular.

Fact: This is the tech forum. Its description is: "Cell phones, computers, internet, electronics, game consoles, new gadgets, broadband access, shopping tips, computer trouble, etc. (LAN parties?)." I don't see anything that excludes any particular brand or type of gadget. If you hate Apple for whatever reason then don't read the Apple posts!

[Watcher]

Apple is about making money, just like every other corporation. The iPod is the top-selling portable music player because it is the best... It's so much better than everything else around it that people are willing to pay a premium to get it.

Microsoft is about making money, just like every other corporation. The Windows XP OS is the top selling OS because it is the best... It's so much better than everything else around it that people are willing to pay a premium to get it.

See how weak that argument is. iPod is "top selling" (mostly marketing hype I'm afraid) because one thing only - Brand Recognition.

[FG Lurker]

Apple is about making money, just like every other corporation. The iPod is the top-selling portable music player because it is the best... It's so much better than everything else around it that people are willing to pay a premium to get it.

Microsoft is about making money, just like every other corporation. The Windows XP OS is the top selling OS because it is the best... It's so much better than everything else around it that people are willing to pay a premium to get it.

See how weak that argument is. iPod is "top selling" (mostly marketing hype I'm afraid) because one thing only - Brand Recognition.

Ah yes, pick one point. And the rest of what I said? Conveniently ignored as you have no reasoned responses.

Did I say that I was applying that statement to *every* product ever produced? Funny, I don't remember saying that... It seems to me the topic of the post was the iPod, not Microsoft or Windows XP. I stand by what I said, not by what you manipulated it to mean. The iPod is the top seller because it is the best player in the market at this time.

As I said above, I am not an Apple person and I own no other Apple products. Nor am I defending an expensive purchase -- I didn't pay for my iPod.

I have spent considerable time trying other players though. As a person with 25-odd years of computer usage history I could easily adapt to their quirks and somewhat counter-intuitive controls. But why bother when something so much better is available? It seems that a high percentage of buyers feel the same way. If another company has a better player available when I eventually replace my iPod I will buy it instead.

[American Oyaji]

Windows isnt number one because it is the best...OMG you're a tool.

It was great business practicess by Bill Gates that POSITIONED Windows as number one. He made moves and Steve Jobs made misteps early in the PC war, otherwise it'd be a Mac world.

And BTW, Windows is CRAP.

Why is it that it always needs a service pack.
Why is there always some hole that needs plugged.

Fact: If you're in the design industry in Japan, you're not in business if you aren't using Macs somewhere in your shop.

Fact: Macs are used by a huge number in Hollywood and the U.S. music industry.

If macs were so BAD, Apple would have gone out of business a long time ago. Everyone has always been predicting apple's demise, but Apple does nothing but get stronger. am I a machead? Hell yeah.

[FG Lurker]

Windows isnt number one because it is the best...OMG you're a tool.

Hehe, let's not turn this into yet another OS war.

[nullpointer]

why don't you hang out on Thinksecret.com while it's still there?

[Charles]

It was great business practicess by Bill Gates that POSITIONED Windows as number one. He made moves and Steve Jobs made misteps early in the PC war, otherwise it'd be a Mac world.

Oh yeah, great business practices.

You want to know why Microsoft is where it is today? Because of one single dirty trick by little Billy Gates. It is legendary for its deviousness.

Back when IBM wanted to build its first PC, they didn't want to develop their own OS, so they put out a request for bid. Only Gary Kildall and Bill Gates responded. Gary Kildall had spent years developing CP/M and MP/M, which had evolved into PC/DOS. But Gates had nothing, but he wanted IBM's contract, so he went to Seattle Computer Company and signed a licensing deal for their new OS. Gates duped them, he wanted an unlimited license, and told them he figured he'd sell a few hundred copies. I forget the exact figure Gates paid, but it was something insanely low like $10,000.
So Gates turned it around and offered it to IBM. There was a big appointment scheduled at IBM, where Kildall and Gates would both meet with IBM executives, have a shootout between the two operating systems, and IBM would decide which to buy.
Now here's the dirty trick. Gates had one of his employees to call Kildall's office, pretending to be an IBM secretary, and informed them that the appointment was moved to the next week. When the real appointment happened, Gates showed up and Kildall didn't. IBM bought MS/DOS because they thought Kildall was not interested in their business. Gates made sure that the contract was signed before Kildall even knew he'd been duped. Gates made hundreds of millions of bucks off this dirty trick. And that is how Gates' evil empire began, by stabbing his competitor in the back. And he's been at it ever since.

[nullpointer]

Now here's the dirty trick. Gates had one of his employees to call Kildall's office, pretending to be an IBM secretary, and informed them that the appointment was moved to the next week. When the real appointment happened, Gates showed up and Kildall didn't. IBM bought MS/DOS because they thought Kildall was not interested in their business.

care to back it up with references?

[FG Lurker]

It was great business practicess by Bill Gates that POSITIONED Windows as number one. He made moves and Steve Jobs made misteps early in the PC war, otherwise it'd be a Mac world.

Oh yeah, great business practices.

You want to know why Microsoft is where it is today? Because of one single dirty trick by little Billy Gates. It is legendary for its deviousness.

Charles, you didn't even get the urban legend right. Come on, you can at least get the wrong story correct!

If anyone is interested in a more realistic version of events there is an interesting page up here:

http://www.maxframe.com/EUBANKS.HTM

Bill Gates is no Saint, that is for sure, and he has proved that many times. But that urban legend is way way exaggerated -- even people who dealt with Gates at that time and disliked him for any number of reasons agree that story is false.

[FG Lurker]

Now here's the dirty trick. Gates had one of his employees to call Kildall's office, pretending to be an IBM secretary, and informed them that the appointment was moved to the next week. When the real appointment happened, Gates showed up and Kildall didn't. IBM bought MS/DOS because they thought Kildall was not interested in their business.

care to back it up with references?

Hehe, I'd love to see him try!!

[Charles]

Now here's the dirty trick. Gates had one of his employees to call Kildall's office, pretending to be an IBM secretary, and informed them that the appointment was moved to the next week. When the real appointment happened, Gates showed up and Kildall didn't. IBM bought MS/DOS because they thought Kildall was not interested in their business.

care to back it up with references?

I can't find the specific references to the phone call trick, I recall reading about it in articles about Kildall way back in the day. But there are several "official" versions of the story, like:
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/04_43/b3905109_mz063.htm
The only omitted detail is the dirty trick with the phone call, nobody's been able to adequately explain why Kildall went flying instead of attending the IBM meeting, only Gates' trick would explain it. I believe it's documented elsewhere but I haven't found it yet. IIRC the incident is dramatized in the movie "Pirates of Silicon Valley," and I think Robert Cringely wrote about it as well, but those works aren't online.

[FG Lurker]

Now here's the dirty trick. Gates had one of his employees to call Kildall's office, pretending to be an IBM secretary, and informed them that the appointment was moved to the next week. When the real appointment happened, Gates showed up and Kildall didn't. IBM bought MS/DOS because they thought Kildall was not interested in their business.

care to back it up with references?

I can't find the specific references to the phone call trick, I recall reading about it in articles about Kildall way back in the day. But there are several "official" versions of the story, like:
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/04_43/b3905109_mz063.htm
The only omitted detail is the dirty trick with the phone call, nobody's been able to adequately explain why Kildall went flying instead of attending the IBM meeting, only Gates' trick would explain it. I believe it's documented elsewhere but I haven't found it yet. IIRC the incident is dramatized in the movie "Pirates of Silicon Valley," and I think Robert Cringely wrote about it as well, but those works aren't online.

The simple fact of this whole thing is that Kildall was a great programmer but a shitty businessman. Gates was a programmer of likely questionable talent but a brilliant and ruthless businessman.

Programming brilliance alone is not enough. If Kildall was not able to handle the business side of the operation better then he should have hired someone who could. History is scattered with the wreckage of hundreds of people like this -- brilliant inventors but shitty businessmen.

As for the whole Gates/DOS IBM appointment airplane flying saga, it is an often-quoted urban legend promoted by people who continue to hate Gates.

[GuyJean]

IIRC the incident is dramatized in the movie "Pirates of Silicon Valley,"

Found some great quotes from that movie.. Not bad for a TV flick..

Memorable Quotes from
Pirates of Silicon Valley (1999) (TV)

Steve Jobs: Those guys think they're revolutionaries. They're not revolutionaries, we are.
Steve Wozniak: We are?

Businessman: Steve - it is Steve, right? You say this gadget of yours is for ordinary people. What on earth would ordinary people want with computers?

Ballmer: Bill, I don't know if it's the clothes on the floor or you, but something in here definitely needs to be hosed down.

Steve Jobs: What is this? This is like doing business with a praying mantis. You get seduced, and then eaten alive afterwards?
Bill Gates: Get real, would ya? You and I are both like guys who had this rich neighbor - Xerox - who left the door open all the time. And you go sneakin' in to steal a TV set. Only when you get there, you realize that I got there first. I got the loot, Steve! And you're yellin'? "That's not fair. I wanted to try to steal it first." You're too late.

Bill Gates: There may be a few... similarities.
Steve Jobs: Similarities? Similarities? Try theft.

IBM Executive: The profits are in the computers themselves, not this software stuff.

Investor: We want Mr. Wozniak to remain employee number one, and you as employee number two...
Steve Jobs: Hold it. I'm employee number one. I am. Woz?
Steve Wozniak: Doesn't matter to me.
Steve Jobs: I am employee number one.
Investor: Okay...
Steve Jobs: Tell you what, I'll be employee number zero. Woz, you can be number one, and I'll be employee number zero.

Steve Jobs: Good artists copy, great artists steal.

Bill Gates: Honest to God, Ballmer. You have no culture.
Ballmer: Oh yeah, like you go around reading Plato! You're the only guy I know who can make furniture out of Playboys. Look, you got enough to make a chair. You don't have to worry about 'em moving around, 'cause they're all stuck together
[laughs]
Ballmer: . They're all stuck together!

Steve Jobs: We're better than you are! We have better stuff.
Bill Gates: You don't get it, Steve. That doesn't matter!

Arlene: Steve, why do you care what I call the baby?
Steve Jobs: Because I don't want the baby named Rainbow! Or Orisha, or Ravi Shankar, or any other name like that.

Bill Gates: Now, we know that IBM has set up this place to complete head-on with Apple, and that you're gearing up to come out with a personal computer that will wipe them out. So we can get you an operating system.
IBM executive: What kind of operating system?
Bill Gates: It's called DOS.

Ballmer (narrating): This is amazing. Not just amazing, it's historic. It should be taught in all the history books. Hung and framed in the National Gallery or something, because this is the instant of creation of one of the greatest fortunes in the history of the world. I mean, Bill Gates is the richest guy in the world because of what started in this room. And you wanna know what else? It wasn't exactly smoke and mirrors, but we didn't have anything! I mean, not a damn thing! Here we were, this two-bit little outfit, telling IBM we had the answer to their problems. The DOS? The Disk Operating System? To make all those zillion IBM computers compute? We didn't remotely own anything like what Bill was selling them. Nada. Zip.

Ballmer: You're the only guy I know who pays strippers to put their clothes on!

Ballmer: Bill, you're gonna have to come up with a better pickup line because asking her her SAT score is NOT going to do it!
Tim Patterson: Why do you want to buy my operating system?
Paul Allen: We think we might be able to, uh, mess with it, and, uh, resell it.
Tim Patterson: Who to?
Paul Allen: We've got some people we're sorta talkin' to. Some of 'em don't really want it known what we're doin' with 'em and they made us sign a secrecy agreement.
Tim Patterson: And you're offering us...?
Paul Allen: Fifty thousand.
Tim Patterson: Dollars?
Paul Allen: Dollars.


Steve Jobs: I don't want you to think of this as just a film - some process of converting electrons and magnetic impulses into shapes and figures and sounds - no. Listen to me. We're here to make a dent in the universe. Otherwise, why even be here? We're creating a completely new consciousness, like an artist or a poet. We're rewriting the history of human thought with what we're doing. That's how you have to think of this.
Ridley Scott: Well, Steven, right now I'm a touch more worried about getting light on the actress, do you know what I mean?

Steve Jobs: What's he talking about, the Altair? I never had a problem with the Altair - 'til I tried to use it!

Chris Larson: [laughs] Eureka! I created a program that can play blackjack.
Bill Gates: Chris, you've been here two days, and you're into blackjack?
Chris Larson: Yeah, so?
Bill Gates: So we've got work to do.

Steve Jobs: Maybe in a past life I was a poet - or an artist.

Bill Gates: Think they're hookers?
Paul Allen: Either that or motel inspectors. I saw one of them go into the room next to ours about a dozen times yesterday.

Bill Gates: I don't understand - how does the hardware handle the mouse/cursor display?
Gilmore: No, it's all right here in the software -
Steve Jobs: Enough!
[angrily mashes button, closing the Macintosh display]
Gilmore: Sorry, Steve.
Steve Jobs: There's no use torturing our guests with what they can't have.

Steve Jobs: You are putting poison into your body.
Steve Wozniak: That's french fries, man. You know, all-American food?
Steve Jobs: That's what I'm talking about.
Steve Wozniak: Come on, I can't eat like you do. Eatin' fruit all the time? That's weird.
Steve Jobs: It's not weird. It's pure.

Steve Wozniak: Where's your beard?
Steve Jobs: In the bathroom sink. I shaved it off.
Steve Wozniak: Well, how come?
Steve Jobs: 'Cause banks don't like beards.

Steve Jobs: What, like I have to have a moustache?
Steve Wozniak: A suit! You actually bought a suit!

GJ

[American Oyaji]

I did NOT know about that...

I know M$ pulled dirty tricks after they got big, but I didnt know about BG pulling dirty stuff like THAT!

[vir-jin]

When I was growing up there was a product made by Sony called the Sony Walkman--a rage, everyone had to have one. Well, you don't hear about the Walkman anymore.

MY FIRST SONY! I remember it well, I had the grey one, my sisters red and blue. I used it, about 10 years. NOSTALGIA!

[FG Lurker]

I did NOT know about that...

I know M$ pulled dirty tricks after they got big, but I didnt know about BG pulling dirty stuff like THAT!

AO, it's an urban legend. Many people who had personal knowledge of what happened at the time say it isn't true -- even the ones who dislike Gates.

Actually Kildall himself said it wasn't true.

[Watcher]

You guys have all missed my point and have ignored the real reason iPod is so big. I'll say it again without any sarcasm. iPod has brand recognition. This stems from the adverts and the media which can't stop talking about it in an effort to be "hip". This recognition has pushed sales. Same with Windows. Same with Walkman.

The technology is still new to the majority of the marketplace... "oooooh no CD and no cassette (MD never caught on in North America for whatever reason)" So when the naive consumer goes into the "Best Buy" or "Frys" or "Future Shop" and look at all these players with strange names like iRiver, Rio, or any others and scary numbers like 128mb, 256mb, 20GB, and they don't understand... but they do recognize iPod because it's in the newspaper all the time... well they gravitate to it. Sony at least had the bragging rights of being first with a portable cassette player and the wow factor tatooed "walkman" into the lexicon. Apple has done the same. When people walk into the shops they say I want an iPod. Is it better? I don't think so, but that's not important. I've had people call my iRiver H120 an iPod. This mistaking of a different MP3 player as an iPod (like all MP3 player must be iPods) is more evidence of Apple's branding power.
I'll repeat my point again so it's clear: People buy what they know. They know iPod from all the hyping. They buy iPod. Just like they bought Sony Walkmans over Panasonic. Just like they bought Windows over Mac. Being better doesn't necessarily garner more sales.

Digital media players are not a fad... but the current iPod is.

And in addition to that SD memory is cheaper than some of you seem to think.
SD Memory prices

[Charles]

And in addition to that SD memory is cheaper than some of you seem to think.
SD Memory prices

Sure, the bottom end SD cards are almost free, because nobody wants to deal with eight 128Mb cards when they could buy one 1Gb card.

I checked that site's top seller list, a 1Gb SD card is $107. The 1Gb iPod Shuffle is $150, so that's 1Gb of memory, a $39 pair of headphones, and they give you a free music player and battery. Apple negotiated huge volume discounts from the wholesaler on Flash RAM, it's rumored to be the lowest wholesale price in the industry. Beat that.

[FG Lurker]

Watcher, why do you think that the average consumer is a moronic idiot only capable of following marketing? Hehe, maybe you've been living in Japan too long and seen too many people spending several weeks' salary to buy one name-brand handbag.

Every new MP3 player that comes into the market is compared against the iPod. Every review of an MP3 player that I have ever read asks something like "Has the iPod killer finally arrived?" Although some have a few advantages over the iPod (longer battery than the earlier iPods or support for file formats such as OGG or WMP), the answer so far has always been the same: "No, it doesn't match up to the iPod." Sometimes they say something like "If you can live with the weird interface quirks of machine X and want to save 50 bucks then you should give machine X a look." I have yet to see any review rank any player of any maker higher than the competing iPod.

As for the comments about the walkman/discman: These products did not dominate their markets once competitors arrived.

As for Windows: Windows dominates because of its huge installed base and the complete lack of any mainstream alternative running on x86 hardware. Microsoft could stop marketing Windows XP today and this would not change.

As for marketing and name recognition in general: It can help a good product but not save a bad one. See "Microsoft Bob" or Sony/Philips Laserdisc, among others.

[Watcher]

I checked that site's top seller list, a 1Gb SD card is $107.

You need to look closer. You can get 2GB for $99.99 and 1GB for $69.97. But beyond that my point was that flash memory is only going to get cheaper and wouldn't it be great to be able to upgrade as needed? You can do that with many other flash players.

[FG Lurker]

I checked that site's top seller list, a 1Gb SD card is $107.

You need to look closer. You can get 2GB for $99.99 and 1GB for $69.97. But beyond that my point was that flash memory is only going to get cheaper and wouldn't it be great to be able to upgrade as needed? You can do that with many other flash players.

It's not often that Charles and I agree on something! I'm on his ignore list so he doesn't even know we agree.

Flash memory is getting cheaper, yes. But the amount of music that someone is going to load onto a tiny music player with no screen isn't going to change. 1GB of music on a player with no interface screen is *more* than enough!

Yah yah! I've got 15,000 songs on my player....but no way to select them.