Chinese tyrants show their true colors in Hong Kong

[cstaylor]

Plan to Crack Down on Dissent Stirs Debate in Hong Kong

A fierce debate has erupted here over a government proposal to lengthen jail terms and increase fines for people who make "seditious" statements, even over the Internet, and to allow some police searches and seizures without a warrant.

China's deputy prime minister, Qian Qichen, fanned the dispute when he said in a recent television interview that opponents of the new rules must have something to hide. The opponents must have "devils in their hearts," he warned, a phrase that has angered and dismayed democracy advocates here.

And the (female) face of evil herself:

Regina Ip, Hong Kong's powerful secretary for security and a top aide to Tung Chee-hwa, the chief executive, increased the controversy when she spoke to students at a local university last Monday. Mrs. Ip questioned the value of democracy in protecting civil liberties and contended that democracy in Germany in the 1930's led to the rise of Hitler and to the Holocaust

The Chinese government loves to spout half-truths... the falacious comparison of the American and Chinese civil wars during the Clinton trip to China was probably the worst.

She said at a public debate on Wednesday that the remark was a personal opinion, not a government position, but went on to cast doubt again on the usefulness of democratic processes. "I don't think democracy is the panacea for all problems," she said. "If you look at the countries around the world, particularly in Asia, there are many democratically elected governments which fail even to protect human life, let alone human rights."

"When you point your index finger at your opponent, notice the three fingers pointing back at you".

[Jack]

I think people who live outside of China/Hong Kong make too much of China's internal affairs. I would like to see some of the wimpy governments in western Europe or the Americas manage a country the size of china where there are over 100 dialects and different peoples. It's easy for westerners to sit in their comfortable living rooms and comment about how China should run its own internal politics when in our own countries things are so fucked up even though we have a fraction of the population China's rulers have to deal with.

If for public order one cannot do or say things then so be it. In most free countries you cannot yell fire in a crowded theater without being punished. We all have our freedoms and limitations. How much freedom do people have in the U.S. these days?

[cstaylor]

If for public order one cannot do or say things then so be it. In most free countries you cannot yell fire in a crowded theater without being punished. We all have our freedoms and limitations. How much freedom do people have in the U.S. these days?

You are equating "disagreeing with a government's position on democracy" (the key to this article) with "yelling fire in a crowded building"?

You're entitled to your opinion, even if it sounds ignorant.

As for China's "internal affairs", yes, they're China's issue, not ours, but it makes you wonder about the future of this part of the world when the 800lb gorilla menaces anyone who disagrees with the party line.

[kamome]

I've gotta agree with CS on this one. "If for public order one cannot say things, so be it" sounds like a slogan you would read on an old Soviet party banner. The defining difference between an oppressive regime and a free regime is the ability for a government to tolerate dissent and yet maintain order. The US and other Western countries have done that. The Chinese claim that maintaining order is impossible if you allow dissent. Now there's a formula for all kinds of abuse.

[Jack]

I understand what you are saying but you are looking at it from only your point of reference. Chinese people have never had the freedom Americans or others in western Europe have had. Allowing dissent in a large country like China could have distabalising consequences.

In any event, I am always on the side of freedom. I understand the Chinese perspective and the limitations of the freedom people in that country will ever enjoy because of their history and diversity.

To be fair, look at how much China has opened up since 1979 and the freedom people enjoy today relative to before 1979. It may not be as much as western people would like but it is a huge improvement in the span of only two decades.

[cstaylor]

But in the case of Hong Kong, it's a large step backwards.

[Jack]

You have no monopoly on knowledge. You have no monopoly on solutions and by the way, you have no right to tell Chinese people how to run their show. Just because something is written in the Washington Post does not make it right. It is merely the American point of view that is reflected there. I read many other sources of information. Democracy will never work in China. Get over it.