Could FG's use a nihongo school?

[Naniwan Kid]

An interesting prospect came up yesterday. It's something I have been
thinking about for a while, but coincidently a guy I met yesterday
asked me about teaching Japanese in Kansai to foreigners who live here,
but can't speak. We talked about it for a while and he said if it is
possible he would like to start something in April (that is the month
for new businesses, apparantly). I obviously couldn't commit to that
on the spot, and said it would require some real heavy research. He
offered to pay me to research for the next three months and then tell
him whether or not it was doable, and if I wanted to run it.

Basically this week I will research a bit to decide if it is even
worth researching.

What do you guys think?

I have been teaching Japanese in the U.S. for 5 years, but it would be different here in Japan (I recently quit work, and am here visiting here now with my J-wife.)

I value the opinions of the FG's here, and appreciate any thoughts you might have....I am at point zero right now...

[FG Lurker]

It's a very broad topic to cover.

Would the focus be on full time classes with sponsorship, or more on classes to businessmen etc? There are a fair number of full time schools in Osaka/Kansai now, but I am not so sure about the part time study market.

I'd suggest picking up some of the magazines around such as the Kansai Time Out, Kansai Flea Market, Kansai Scene, and Japanzine. Japanzine is national, but the other three (obviously from their names ) are Kansai only. There will be a good selection of ads in there you can use to start your research.

[AssKissinger]

What do you guys think?

Why the fuck would any gaijin actually pay to study Japanese with a foreign guy in Japan?

[FG Lurker]

What do you guys think?

Why the fuck would any gaijin actually pay to study Japanese with a foreign guy in Japan?

I think he'd be running the school, not teaching at it......

But yah, I don't think a foreign teacher would get too far in Japan either, unless he grew up here and was therefore essentially native or something.

[hakuman]

I tihnk many foreigners who have learned Japanesee can potentially teach basic Japanese better than ppl who know it naturally, due to having learned it already, and knowing the challenges that come with learning the language.

[FG Lurker]

I tihnk many foreigners who have learned Japanesee can potentially teach basic Japanese better than ppl who know it naturally, due to having learned it already, and knowing the challenges that come with learning the language.

I disagree 1000%. In Japanese pronunciation is everything. Your best bet by far to get correct pronunciation is to learn from a native speaker.

No matter how good the FG is, they are going to have little bits of weirdness in their Japanese... Starting with someone who already has some odd quirks in their pronunciation is just going to compound your own problems down the road.

[AssKissinger]

What do you guys think?

Why the fuck would any gaijin actually pay to study Japanese with a foreign guy in Japan?

I think he'd be running the school, not teaching at it......

But yah, I don't think a foreign teacher would get too far in Japan either, unless he grew up here and was therefore essentially native or something.

I'm gonna have to start reading the posts.

[hakuman]

I disagree 1000%. In Japanese pronunciation is everything. Your best bet by far to get correct pronunciation is to learn from a native speaker.

No matter how good the FG is, they are going to have little bits of weirdness in their Japanese... Starting with someone who already has some odd quirks in their pronunciation is just going to compound your own problems down the road.

I would agree if the setting was in any other country than Japan where the student wouldnt be exposed to real pronounciation all day long. But learning prounounciation from the teacher when you are in Japan isnt as important as getting proper understandable explanations so that you can understand how to put it all together when you go out and speak to ppl in the community.

I was talking to a girl in my city here the other day who was complaining because her (Japanese) Japanse teacher couldnt explain stuff well, so while she can read hiragana and katakana and knows a lot of words, she has no idea how things are put together, or why they are put together that way.
I spent 20 minutes answering some of the questions that her Japanese teacher couldnt answer, and she was very thankful.

[Ethos]

Well, there's already an abundance of them in the country now. I know for sure Arc has a school in Osaka. I've been to two here in Tokyo that are primarily for teaching foreigners how to speak Japanese. I mean, they seem like they make money, but it's not a new idea or anything. If you visit http://www.arc-academy.net, i'm sure you can find an email to contact them about everything you need. Plus, one thing I think that makes a lot of money is just referring people to schools. The first time I studied, I went through some people in the states. I paid them directly, and they handled everything for me here in Japan. However, they charged more than if I would have just come here and paid for the same things straight up myself, so they profited off that service. That's another idea, maybe?

[Naniwan Kid]

A lot has happened since FG went down.... and thank you all for your thoughts. My theory was that at least for basic Japanese it can be better for a FGto learn from another FG instead of a native, as he can explain things. Native Japanese speakers have never learned Japanese grammar or structure, so it is difficult for them to explain. Natives don't really know that there are different kinds of verbs (Class 1 or Class2 / RU or U verbs) and can't put them into groups. They have learned writing in school, but not sentence structure, so until a student of Japanese gets a handle on some the basics I believe there is a benefit from learning from a talented FG speaker and teacher of Japanese. I don't think pronunciation is such an issue, as Japanese has far fewer sounds than English, and only a few that don't appear in English (ra,ri,ru,re,ro, the long vowels and sm
all tsu sounds). I have been mistaken for a native when I speak on the phone, so I don't think accent gets in the way...

Anyway, my research has shown that 1) there are many schools already in existence, though most of them recruit overseas to bring students to Japan, and not enlist FG's already here and that 2) FG's already here aren't going to shell out that much cash to learn Japanese, as they generally feel the country is too expensive as it is.

In my personal story, the guy who offered me the position's story began to change, and he wanted me to borrow 2,000 man yen from him to get it started. I told him "Forget it". But, it does make me think about applying at some of the FG Japanese schools that exist. As a teacher of Japanese in the U.S. partnered with a native speaker, the students often said they were able to understand my explanations much better than hers. Surely she can read better than I, and doesn't make as many mistakes, but I think there are benefits to both native and non-native language teachers. An interesting philosophical discussion...

[FG Lurker]

I disagree 1000%. In Japanese pronunciation is everything. Your best bet by far to get correct pronunciation is to learn from a native speaker.

No matter how good the FG is, they are going to have little bits of weirdness in their Japanese... Starting with someone who already has some odd quirks in their pronunciation is just going to compound your own problems down the road.

I would agree if the setting was in any other country than Japan where the student wouldnt be exposed to real pronounciation all day long. But learning prounounciation from the teacher when you are in Japan isnt as important as getting proper understandable explanations so that you can understand how to put it all together when you go out and speak to ppl in the community.

There are lots of books that explain all ranges of grammar and sentence structure well. Japanese has plenty of rules with not too many exceptions (compared to English).

But I really feel that the teacher should be Japanese. Who is going to actually *correct* your pronunciation? The people in the community? Nope. They'll just look at you with that deer-in-the-headlights look. If the teacher is correcting you with incorrect pronunciation you're fucked.

I was talking to a girl in my city here the other day who was complaining because her (Japanese) Japanse teacher couldnt explain stuff well, so while she can read hiragana and katakana and knows a lot of words, she has no idea how things are put together, or why they are put together that way.
I spent 20 minutes answering some of the questions that her Japanese teacher couldnt answer, and she was very thankful.

If her Japanese teacher can't answer her questions then she should seek out a better teacher who can. Not all teachers are good. Not all are bad. Fellow FG's can be a good source, but how can a novice learner really tell if they are getting good advice or bad?

Pronunciation is critical in Japanese. You can have fairly fucked up grammar and good pronunciation and you will be able to communicate. But perfect grammar and fucked pronunciation will get you nowhere in Japan.

FGL

[Mels]

I agree with you Naniwan. When I was sent to Japan, my company wanted me to teach my FG collegues basic Japanese...but it was a lot more than that. They wanted me to help them understand the business culture as well as the Japanese culture. Of course I was shocked...but they said that I had a good grasp because I had lived there for 18 years (much on the bases) and my mom was Japanese. But, I could only go so far....I taught english while in high school to Japanese kids. and that was so different from teaching Japanese and its culture...

I thought your approach---you and another native Japanese person---is a great way to do it.

Sorry to hear the story changed with this guy. It makes me laugh when someone wants to do something, approaches you and then expects you to borrow money for it? Good thing you cleared that situation up before you decided to do any research for him.

Good luck on your endavor..

[FG Lurker]

In my personal story, the guy who offered me the position's story began to change, and he wanted me to borrow 2,000 man yen from him to get it started. I told him "Forget it".

At least you found out sooner rather than later, but still...

But, it does make me think about applying at some of the FG Japanese schools that exist. As a teacher of Japanese in the U.S. partnered with a native speaker, the students often said they were able to understand my explanations much better than hers. Surely she can read better than I, and doesn't make as many mistakes, but I think there are benefits to both native and non-native language teachers. An interesting philosophical discussion...

Applied well this seems like a good system for teaching. Easy to understand explanations along with native pronunciation.

The Japanese school I went to for 1.5 years had no English speaking teachers at all! How the hell I managed to understand their explanations when I could hardly speak any Japanese I really don't know. I've done my best to block out the early days of that experience!!

[Naniwan Kid]

I thought your approach---you and another native Japanese person---is a great way to do it.

Sorry to hear the story changed with this guy. It makes me laugh when someone wants to do something, approaches you and then expects you to borrow money for it? Good thing you cleared that situation up before you decided to do any research for him.

Good luck on your endavor..

Thanks, Mels. The last three years, along with my fellow teacher, I have been teaching Japanese native interns how to teach Japanese to non-native speakers. It's funny, but the Japanese interns preferred sitting in and teaching with me rather then my more experienced native colleague. Again, I think it's that experience of learning the language as well as the experience of having frustration with the complete differentness of the language which was the advantage. I often tell students of that "day of reckoning" that I had, probably after 3 or 4 years of intense study where I stopped translating in my head and began thinking in Japanese. That is the goal I have for my students (even though I don't usually get them for that many years, and they are high school age and studying at a slower pace than I did in college). It does give them a point to strive for, and I am happy that a few of my students who I have kept contact with are pursuing majors and beyond in Japanese. Nothing makes a teacher more happy.

At least you found out sooner rather than later, but still...

True, Lurker. I am amazed at how much business is done in Japan after a few bottle of sake. Even sober the guy who introduced us told me he thought I was throwing away a real chance at success. As a father of a two-year-old I can't take risks like that, though...

The Japanese school I went to for 1.5 years had no English speaking teachers at all!

My most memorable Japanese teacher (I think I had 8 or 10 in college) was the only non-native speaker on the staff. Poor guy, EVERYONE went to him when they couldn't understand the native expanations.