Sheep Baaaaack On Japanese Menus

[Mulboyne]

Japan Times: Lamb increasingly popular despite 'stinky' repute
With mad cow disease and the bird flu still making some people anxious about the safety of beef and poultry, an increasing number of Tokyo residents are turning to mutton and lamb. The number of restaurants serving lamb has grown since last year, said Fumiaki Shimono, 43, operator of Tokyo Jingisukan (mutton barbecue) Club, a Web site he created five years ago for lovers of lamb...Mutton and lamb have not been part of most regular diets in Japan. However, it is a popular meal in Hokkaido, home to numerous sheep farms. The key factor behind mutton's unpopularity is its odor. The smell of cooked lamb is weaker than that of mutton, experts figure...Women who are interested in their diet and looking for healthy food are drawn to lamb and mutton. A certain type of amino acid that can dissolve fat is found in greater quantity in lamb and mutton than in beef or pork, the experts say.

[Charles]

...The key factor behind mutton's unpopularity is its odor...

I would think the key factors behind mutton's unpopularity are anthrax and brucelosis.

[AssKissinger]

I cook it a pretty lot. It's my favorite kind of meet. So tender... yummy! But I was wondering is it ok to eat mutton rare like beef or does it have to be well-done like chicken and pork?

[Charles]

I cook it a pretty lot. It's my favorite kind of meet. So tender... yummy! But I was wondering is it ok to eat mutton rare like beef or does it have to be well-done like chicken and pork?

It's ok to eat rare mutton as long as you don't mind brucelosis or anthrax. I personally prefer mutton incinerated to ashes and tossed in the garbage without it ever touching my mouth. My grandfather was a USDA meat inspector and he said that lamb carries more human-transmissible diseases than any other animal (and this was a guy who liked eating scrapple and other stuff I wouldn't ever touch).
In particular I would avoid Australian lamb (which is probably the bulk of what you get in Japan). And no, I'm not just doing my usual ozzie bashing when I tell you that. It is my understanding that anthrax is particularly rampant in Australia and all attempts to eradicate it have failed, to the point where sheep ranchers are required to get anthrax vaccinations. Brucelosis is pretty widespread too. So just avoid it.
FYI, the worst that can happen from rare chicken is a little salmonella, but rare pork can give you trichinosis. I thought trichinosis was eradicated in the US pork herds, but I recently found out I was mistaken, so I stopped cooking pork to medium-rare (oops) and went back to well-done and I always use a meat thermometer (my trusty thermofork).

[Big Booger]

I didn't know much about brucellosis so I looked it up:

Brucella ovis does not infect humans, unlike Brucella abortus which is a serious public health risk that has been eradicated from the Australian cattle herd.

And another:

Until recently, bovine brucellosis has present throughout the world. However, a number of countries have now succeeded in eradicating this disease. These include Australia, Canada, Israel, Japan, Austria, Switzerland, Denmark, Finland, Norway, Sweden and New Zealand.

http://www.aahc.com.au/nahis/disease/BRA.htm

Am I missing something here? As it seems the bovine form of brucellosis has been "eradicated"

It seems that Brucellosis ovis pertaining to sheep cannot infect humans.. or can it?

Brucella ovis is responsible for the disease known as Contagious Epididymitis in rams. The disease has never been recorded in the United Kingdom, but has been reported from Australia, New Zealand, the United States of America, South Africa and parts of Europe. Prevalence is thought to be high in the Southern European states. Infected flocks may suffer considerable economic loss because of poor fertility. There are no records of human infection, and the disease is not classed as a zoonosis.

http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/diseases/notifiable/disease/epididymitis.htm

What am I missing? I am seriously curious for curiosities sake.

It seems that the way you catch Malta fever is by direct contact with the animals.. not eating the meat... at least that is what I've read in my brief googlings...

Brucellosis, also known as "undulant fever", "Malta fever" or "Mediterranean fever," is primarily a disease of those whose occupations bring them into direct contact with domestic animals. (Brucella suis infection has also been documented in feral swine hunters.)

Modes of transmission:

* Transmission via unpasteurized milk and contaminated cheese was, historically, a serious problem. However, where pasteurization is practiced, such transmission is rare today - the exception being an on-going risk of infection from consumption of soft cheese products.
* Infection today occurs most commonly by contact with placental tissues or vaginal secretions from infected animals (and to a lesser degree because of contact with blood or urine).
o Contact with secretions from both domestic and exotic animals can pose risks, e.g. 5 zookeepers in Japan developed brucellosis in 2001 after attending the delivery of a baby moose.
* There is limited evidence of person-to-person transmission of Brucella spp.-- Venereal transmission has been reported between a laboratory worker and his spouse, and B. melitensis abscesses in a woman's breast may serve as a source of infection for her infant.
* Brucellosis is also a disease of concern as a bioterrorist weapon.

http://www.vetmed.wisc.edu/pbs/zoonoses/Brucellosis/brucellosishuman.html

So can you catch it from eating mutton not cooked fully? I chowed down on a mutton chops the other night at my favorite little restaurant... and it was so damn tasty... mmm mmm mmm


Well a little more looking says this:

Can I eat the meat? [can infect dogs] [cook well]

* Meat from animals with brucellosis should be thoroughly cooked.
* Freezing, smoking, drying and pickling do not kill Brucella.
* Raw bone marrow from infected animals can contain the bacteria.
* Do not feed diseased parts to dogs.

What causes brucellosis?

* Brucellosis is a highly contagious disease caused by bacteria called Brucella suis type 4 in caribou and reindeer. It is spread in the afterbirth and fluids during calving.

Where does brucellosis occur?

* Brucella suis occurs naturally in caribou and reindeer and has also been seen in muskoxen and moose.
* Brucella is most common in the four arctic caribou herds (Western Arctic, Teshekpuk, Central Arctic and Porcupine herds). Predators such as bears and wolves are exposed when they feed on infected caribou.
* Humans can be infected by Brucella suis type 4.

What are the signs of brucellosis?

* Animals may appear healthy and not show any signs of disease.
* Brucellosis usually affects the reproductive organs and leg joints.
* Often, animals will have swollen leg joints causing limping or lameness (especially in the front legs).
* When butchering, you may find pus-filled swellings under the skin, in the meat or in the internal organs.
* The testicles or womb may be swollen.
* In people brucellosis often causes a high fever that frequently comes and goes.

In the US there are somthing like 100-200 cases per year. And it doesn't seem very lethal, but indeed it is not something I'd want to catch. Further reading states you're more likely to catch it from milk or cheese than meat, though you still can catch it from the meat.

[Charles]

Am I missing something here? As it seems the bovine form of brucellosis has been "eradicated"

bovine=cows
ovine=sheep

It seems that Brucellosis ovis pertaining to sheep cannot infect humans.. or can it?

Well, now you have me wondering. I'm just going on what my grandfather told me, and he went to veterinary school before WWII, when veterinary epidemiology was in its infancy, and he did research on epidemiology for the USDA. Perhaps I remember it wrong. I have his old Animal Bacteriology books on my shelf, but the illustrations are too disgusting to permit exhaustive research. I really don't like lamb so it isn't hard for me to avoid it entirely, and avoid having to wonder how big the risk is.
But if I were you, I'd worry more about the anthrax. And I remind people that you have to handle the bloody, raw muscle as you prep it for cooking, which is a lot riskier than eating the cooked product. One nick or cut on your hands, and..

[amdg]

[AssKissinger]

Charles, He's talking shit about your granddad!

amdg, that was harsh. Funny, but harsh.

It totally surprised me the direction you took this conversation. This was the last thread I expected to see go beyond fucked.

[katakori]

laving aside the meat inspector conversation for a second. lamb MUST be eaten pink/medium, not well done like chicken or pork, as far as taste and texture are concerned. except when minced. mutton must be slow cooked for as long a time as possible. lamb, think skewers. mutton, think curries.

[Big Booger]

I learned a lot on my little google adventure. Seems this is a STD for sheep. They get it by having sex with an infected partner. They can get it other ways, but it seems to be the most predominant...

And what is more is it causes sterilization in the herd.. poor little bo peep.. her sheep can't sperminate any more.

Seems it's a major issue in countries where slaughtering standards and meat preparation/storage are poor.. though it can hit any country really.

I think using proper precautions like Charles said about being carefull when preparing it should do the trick. I have a hard time finding the stuff at my local meat shop/grocer so when I eat it is usually out at a restaurant that serves it.

[AssKissinger]

They get it by having sex with an infected partner

amdg, I know what you're thinking. Don't even go there.

[emperor]

I think lamb is yummy, but ever since eating ostrich.. Ive been having cravings!! One of the supermarket chains here has started selling Kudu, Croc, Bison and load of other whacky meats.

Some lamb recipes along with the appropriate colour:
http://www.bordbia.ie/Consumers/Recipes

[dimwit]

I learned a lot on my little google adventure. Seems this is a STD for sheep. They get it by having sex with an infected partner. They can get it other ways, but it seems to be the most predominant...

And what is more is it causes sterilization in the herd.. poor little bo peep.. her sheep can't sperminate any more.

Seems it's a major issue in countries where slaughtering standards and meat preparation/storage are poor.. though it can hit any country really.

I think using proper precautions like Charles said about being carefull when preparing it should do the trick. I have a hard time finding the stuff at my local meat shop/grocer so when I eat it is usually out at a restaurant that serves it.

This is WAY more than I want to know about sheep (lamb chops are off the menu for tomorrow) but perhaps this information could be posted to some rubgy teams who conduct certain hazing rituals....

[Charles]

I learned a lot on my little google adventure. Seems this is a STD for sheep. They get it by having sex with an infected partner. They can get it other ways, but it seems to be the most predominant...

And what is more is it causes sterilization in the herd.. poor little bo peep.. her sheep can't sperminate any more.

Seems it's a major issue in countries where slaughtering standards and meat preparation/storage are poor.. though it can hit any country really.

I recently read that canine brucella is endemic in Japan and there was an outbreak of human cases (in Saitama IIRC) amongst veterinary workers, resulting in spontaneous abortions. This problem is exacerbated by feral dogs transmitting the disease.

The big problem with sheep is not in slaughtering/storage, but living conditions. My father thought he'd become a Gentleman Farmer and bought a farm property and decided he'd raise sheep for meat. My grandfather became the live-in vet, which was a full time job since sheep just have so many damn diseases and live in such horrible conditions (let's just say sheep have no problems with coprophagy and leave it at that). When one sheep gets sick, they all get sick. And these animals were always sick despite full time vet care. It was almost a merciful thing when packs of wild dogs killed off the whole lot of them, one by one.

I think using proper precautions like Charles said about being carefull when preparing it should do the trick. I have a hard time finding the stuff at my local meat shop/grocer so when I eat it is usually out at a restaurant that serves it.

From my years of observations watching sheep herds grazing in my front yard, I think the proper precautions for lamb and mutton are to never ever let it come near your body. Whatever meat you eat that comes from healthy animals is going to be chock full o' antibiotics, there are plenty of reasons to worry about that too.

[cliffy]

Chucky boy, as a member of a rural family in Australia, I have yet to see any Anthax in ANY form on the farms. Brucelocis is another thing, yes it is a problem but through Vetinary action it is in decline. Again I suggest checking FACTS before you fart off some rant about Australian lamb and mutton. Yes I am suggesting you are talking though your ARSE, ASS or ANUS yet again

[American Oyaji]

I LOVE lamb!!

Haven't had to much mutton though.

I make a MEAN roast leg of lamb.

I think I might cook one up this weekend.

[Charles]

Chucky boy, as a member of a rural family in Australia, I have yet to see any Anthax in ANY form on the farms. Brucelocis is another thing, yes it is a problem but through Vetinary action it is in decline. Again I suggest checking FACTS before you fart off some rant about Australian lamb and mutton. Yes I am suggesting you are talking though your ARSE, ASS or ANUS yet again

Yes, and of course since YOU PERSONALLY know everything about the entirety of your god-forsaken desert island's agricultural practices, and since YOU never personally witnessed it, it doesn't exist.

Australia's National Animal Health Information System (NAHIS)

Queensland most recently had cases of anthrax in 2002. Anthrax was diagnosed in Western Australia in 1994 but is now considered free.

Note that anthrax can live dormant in the soil for decades, so it is almost impossible to declare the disease eradicated.

[Mulboyne]

ever since eating ostrich.. Ive been having cravings!!

Asahi: Ostriches rule roost in old quarry site

Last June, Kazuo Katsura, 56, was forced to close the quarry his family had run for years. The company chalked up annual sales of about 300 million yen in 2001, but the figure then dropped sharply. Still, Katsura, who had followed his father into the business after graduating from junior high school, wasn't ready to retire. Looking for a fresh start, he considered livestock farming. He went to Miyazaki Prefecture where he found an ostrich ranch in Nojiri town with about 40 of the exotic birds. He immediately liked what he saw. The flightless birds were quieter than chickens, and they didn't smell as bad.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Infection today occurs most commonly by contact with placental tissues or vaginal secretions from infected animals

Uh-oh. Scotland and New Zealand are in trouble.

[kurohinge1]

... In particular I would avoid Australian lamb ... And no, I'm not just doing my usual ozzie bashing when I tell you that ...

Er, yes, it appears that you are.

... It is my understanding that anthrax is particularly rampant in Australia and all attempts to eradicate it have failed,

The unsupported statements and the link you provide fail to establish all of the following:

1. that anthrax is rampant in Australia]particularly[/b] worse than other countries; and
3. that all attempts to eradicate it have failed

Is this bias all because an Aussie sheep rejected you?

[Charles]

The unsupported statements and the link you provide fail to establish all of the following:

1. that anthrax is rampant in Australia]particularly[/b] worse than other countries; and
3. that all attempts to eradicate it have failed

[quote="The Journal of Applied Microbiology"]J Appl Microbiol 1999 Aug]Andrew.Turner@nre.vic.gov.au[/email]

[FG Lurker]

What's your point Charles?

North Dakota had 32 farms quarantined for Anthrax in 2000. A typical year in North Dakota sees 3, 4, 5 farms quarantined for it, but 10 farms is not uncommon. And this is only one US State.

[Ketou]

Looks like they're still trying to contain the 1914 outbreak.

Did you bother reading what you posted??

Anthrax had not been recorded in the outbreak area since records were initiated in 1914, although anthrax did occur in the general area in the 1880s to 1890s.

[FG Lurker]

Looks like they're still trying to contain the 1914 outbreak.

Did you bother reading what you posted??

Anthrax had not been recorded in the outbreak area since records were initiated in 1914, although anthrax did occur in the general area in the 1880s to 1890s.

Hey, why bother to confuse the issue with accurate information!?

[American Oyaji]

What exactly IS anthrax and where did it come from?

[emperor]

What exactly IS anthrax and where did it come from?

Nearly as much as Metallica or Megadeth, Anthrax was responsible for the emergence of speed and thrash metal] Original guitarists Scott Ian and Dan Spitz were a formidable pair, spitting out lightning-fast riffs and solos that never seemed masturbatory. Unlike Metallica or Megadeth, they had the good sense to temper their often serious music with a healthy dose of humor and realism. After their first album, Fistful of Metal, singer Joey Belladonna and bassist Frank Bello joined the lineup. Belladonna helped take the band farther away from conventional metal clichés, and over the next five albums (with the exception of 1988's State of Euphoria, where the band sounded like they were in a creative straitjacket), Anthrax arguably became the leaders of speed metal. As the '80s became the '90s, they also began to increase their experiments with hip-hop, culminating in a tour with Public Enemy in 1991 and a joint re-recording of PE's classic "Bring the Noise." After their peak period of the late '80s, Anthrax kicked Belladonna out of the band in 1992 and replaced him with ex-Armored Saint vocalist John Bush -- a singer that was gruffer and deeper, fitting most metal conventions perfectly. Subsequently, their sound became less unique and their audience shrank slightly as a consequence, and after signing to Elektra for 1993's Sound of White Noise, the group left the label after just one more album, 1995's Stomp 442. At that point, Anthrax -- now a four-piece consisting of Ian, Bush, Bello, and drummer Charlie Benante -- built their own studio in [b]Yonkers, NY, and after a three-year hiatus returned with their Ignition label debut The Threat Is Real, Vol. 8. 1999 saw the release of Anthrax's very first "hits" collection, titled Return of the Killer A's: The Best Of, also their first release for the Beyond label. The album included a cover of "Ball of Confusion," which featured a duet between current frontman Bush and former vocalist Belladonna. A proposed tour that was to include both vocalists was announced, but on the eve of its launch, Belladonna pulled out for supposed monetary reasons. The tour carried on, as Anthrax signed on to participate in a package tour during the summer of 2000 with Mötley Crüe and Megadeth, but left the tour after only playing a handful of dates. Anthrax appeared on the Twisted Sister tribute album Twisted Forever in 2001 (covering the track "Destroyer"), and began recording their next album the same year. In addition, guitarist Ian found time to regularly host the metal television program Rock Show on VH1, plus appearing as part of the fictional metal band Titannica in the film Run, Ronnie, Run. VH1 programming heads would eventually replace Ian with Sebastian Bach, but the band was ready to head back into the studio anyway. New guitarist Rob Caggiano joined in the spring of 2002, just in time for the recording. A year later, Anthrax made their Sanctuary debut with We've Come For You All. The band's dynamic hadn't changed and touring in support of that album was met with overwhelming success. The CD/DVD set Music of Mass Destruction: Live in Chicago, which arrived in Spring 2004, celebrated that and Anthrax's twentysome years in the business.

[cliffy]

Yes Chuck I am aware of the outbreak but my argument is that NO PROCESSED meat was affected. FYI the outbreak area was my home town region and was detected on farm not after slaughter and sale.
I still declare your comments crap and you an ass.

[devicenull]

Needs more lamb! I really don't want to have to go all the way to Toyota for some lamb for huoguo. And I am down to my last kilo of muttony goodness from China

[Big Booger]

Needs more lamb! I really don't want to have to go all the way to Toyota for some lamb for huoguo. And I am down to my last kilo of muttony goodness from China

Eaten any dog or cat in China of late?

[devicenull]

Needs more lamb! I really don't want to have to go all the way to Toyota for some lamb for huoguo. And I am down to my last kilo of muttony goodness from China

Eaten any dog or cat in China of late? ]

Had dog in Taiwan, dog is good. I have yet to eat cat, but I hear it is not worth it. Donkey is good though... mmm donkey. I need to get back to Baoding sometime and eat some