'WHALEFALL' a modest proposal for Japan's needs

[Taro Toporific]

Here's a modest solution to all of Japan's whaling needs: EAT 'WHALEFALL'!
Off the coast of Hokkaido exists an entire ecological community that feeds off "whale fall"---that is, the decomposing carcasses of dead whales. However, this whalefall could additionally support a whole host of bottom feeders like the Japan's Institute of Cetacean Research as previously chronicled by Captain Japan.

"WHALEFALL!"
The Esoteric Science Resource Center, by Paul T. Riddell - Wed, Feb. 9th, 2005, 01:29 pm... a new article in Nature on whale falls: specifically, on the life forms that survive and thrive on whale carcasses that fall to the ocean bottom. The study of whale falls is still relatively new, but marine biologists not only find organisms normally only seen at deep-sea hydrothermal vents, but new organisms previously never seen before. In particular, considering when truly large whales first evolved, these communities might be composed of life forms dating back some 35 million years....more...
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To read more about whale fall refer to the February 9th issue of Nature or check out the PDF of the original research paper by Amano, K. and Little,"Miocene whale fall community from Hokkaido, northern Japan."

[Charles]

Here's a modest solution to all of Japan's whaling needs: EAT 'WHALEFALL'!
Off the coast of Hokkaido exists an entire ecological community that feeds off "whale fall"---that is, the decomposing carcasses of dead whales. However, this whalefall could additionally support a whole host of bottom feeders like the Japan's Institute of Cetacean Research as previously chronicled by Captain Japan.

"Make that whalefall pizza to go."

[goldenboy_ge]

Stop whale hunting

[FG Lurker]

"There is no such thing as an Australian whale."
news.com.au, May 19, 2005

THE Japanese Embassy has a message for the readers of The Daily Telegraph: "There is no such thing as an Australian whale."

That was the response of embassy staff in Canberra when The Daily Telegraph paid a visit - whale in tow - to seek answers on behalf of our outraged nation.

[...]

"Whaling is internationally regulated and no country claims its ownership," the embassy's Deputy Chief of Mission, Jiro Kodera, said yesterday.

"There is no such thing as an Australian whale."

And Mr Kodera claimed that Japanese people eating whales was on a par with Australians tucking into kangaroo.

[...]

"If countries like Australia don't want to eat whales, fine. But they have no right to impose their value judgments on us," he said.

(Full Story)

The whole thing is a bit of a joke.

Who the hell actually wants to eat whale meat?? Lots of people probably think they do, but really, it's pretty nasty shit -- not to mention full of toxins.

[kurohinge1]

... Australia claims those waters as our own, but Japan does not recognise our claim ...

This sounds familiar ...

A Sign of Hostility?

... Japan says Okinotori, about 1,700 km (1,056 miles) south of Tokyo in the Pacific Ocean, is its southernmost island and claims an exclusive economic zone (EEZ) around it.

But China says Okinotori is a rock, not an island, and refuses to recognise Japan's claims to the EEZ ...

I'll recognise yours if you recognise mine

[Samurai_Jerk]

Who the hell actually wants to eat whale meat?? Lots of people probably think they do, but really, it's pretty nasty shit -- not to mention full of toxins.

I like it and pretty much everything we eat is full of toxins. Especially if it comes from the sea. I still don't see any reason why it's any more wrong to hunt a non endangered species of whale than any other animal.

[FG Lurker]

Who the hell actually wants to eat whale meat?? Lots of people probably think they do, but really, it's pretty nasty shit -- not to mention full of toxins.

I like it and pretty much everything we eat is full of toxins. Especially if it comes from the sea.

I don't eat much seafood. Guess I'll end up with mad cow instead. Yakiniku.... Yum!

I still don't see any reason why it's any more wrong to hunt a non endangered species of whale than any other animal.

Most animals that humans eat in volume we have figured out how to "farm". Everything from cows to oysters. No one has yet figured out how to farm whales.

I don't have any particular attachment to whales, but I think that before we go back to using them for food we should figure out how to replace what we take.

[blackcat]

aussies dont travel the world in search of roos!!!

brainless fucking jap.

13,000,000 roos are somewhat more abundant than whales.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Who the hell actually wants to eat whale meat?? Lots of people probably think they do, but really, it's pretty nasty shit -- not to mention full of toxins.

I like it and pretty much everything we eat is full of toxins. Especially if it comes from the sea.

I don't eat much seafood. Guess I'll end up with mad cow instead. Yakiniku.... Yum!

I still don't see any reason why it's any more wrong to hunt a non endangered species of whale than any other animal.

Most animals that humans eat in volume we have figured out how to "farm". Everything from cows to oysters. No one has yet figured out how to farm whales.

I don't have any particular attachment to whales, but I think that before we go back to using them for food we should figure out how to replace what we take.

There could always be quotas on how much people catch. Isn't that what we do with fish? Fish stocks are being wiped out and there is aparently a type of fly in California that is near extinction but you don't hear the moral outrage the way you do about whales. For some reason people seem to think that "whales is people" like there is something different about them from any other animal (and don't fucking tell me how smart they are. Pigs are pretty fucking smart too). So the assholes in Greenpeace seize on this issue because they know that folks will get all worked up about it.

BTW, don't forget all the toxins in the veggies you eat.

[FG Lurker]

There could always be quotas on how much people catch. Isn't that what we do with fish? Fish stocks are being wiped out

I think you just answered your own question with regards to quotas: They don't work. Especially with a shared resource like fish or whales that no one can easily count. However many types of fish can be farmed while whales can not. The quantity of fish vs quantity of whales is also exponentially different.

Finally, fish stocks are being wiped out, so that is a good reason to try to repeat it by using the same system with whales?

and there is aparently a type of fly in California that is near extinction

Uh...okay. Bit unsure of your choice of comparison though. ]but you don't hear the moral outrage the way you do about whales. For some reason people seem to think that "whales is people" like there is something different about them from any other animal[/quote]
Within the focus of this topic I think whales are similiar to, say, dolphins or eagles, but are pretty different from a pig or cow. We can (and do) farm pigs & cows. Not yet seen an eagle farm though. The point being that some animals can easily be produced, and some can not. Humans need to keep this in mind when deciding what we are going to eat.

BTW, don't forget all the toxins in the veggies you eat.

You're missing the point. What would you suggest that we eat instead of vegetables? They are a required part of a healthy diet and there is no reasonable substitute food available.

Eating whale is not important to human health. It's about as important as eating Eagles... Perhaps the Japanese should start hunting and eating Bald Eagles too? They probably taste a lot better than whale...

[kurohinge1]

Who the hell actually wants to eat whale meat?? Lots of people probably think they do, but really, it's pretty nasty shit -- not to mention full of toxins.

I like it and pretty much everything we eat is full of toxins. Especially if it comes from the sea ...

It's more an issue of quantum.

... Whales, the world's biggest mammals, are susceptible to picking up toxins like mercury or PCBs because they can live more than 20 years. The poisons get lodged in meat and fat ... more

I guess a 20 year-old carrot might end up just as dangerous but I like to think our veggies are a little more fresh than that. But, if you're not pregnant or breast-feeding, it shouldn't change your life much.

... "Our advice is that pregnant women and mothers who are breast feeding should not eat whale meat," Janneche Utne Skaare, deputy director of the National Veterinary Institute and a scientist on the panel, told Reuters.

She said the advice, following a meeting on Monday and based on samples from 125 whales, was in line with recommendations to women to avoid certain types of fish including swordfish and large trout when pregnant or nursing.

See also: Japan finds high levels of toxins in whale blubber (from 2002)

* Note to self * Tell Mrs Kurohinge to stop wrestling those swordfish into the runabout when she's pregnant.

[Samurai_Jerk]

There could always be quotas on how much people catch. Isn't that what we do with fish? Fish stocks are being wiped out

I think you just answered your own question with regards to quotas: They don't work. Especially with a shared resource like fish or whales that no one can easily count. However many types of fish can be farmed while whales can not. The quantity of fish vs quantity of whales is also exponentially different.

Finally, fish stocks are being wiped out, so that is a good reason to try to repeat it by using the same system with whales?

and there is aparently a type of fly in California that is near extinction

Uh...okay. Bit unsure of your choice of comparison though. ]but you don't hear the moral outrage the way you do about whales. For some reason people seem to think that "whales is people" like there is something different about them from any other animal

Within the focus of this topic I think whales are similiar to, say, dolphins or eagles, but are pretty different from a pig or cow. We can (and do) farm pigs & cows. Not yet seen an eagle farm though. The point being that some animals can easily be produced, and some can not. Humans need to keep this in mind when deciding what we are going to eat.

BTW, don't forget all the toxins in the veggies you eat.

You're missing the point. What would you suggest that we eat instead of vegetables? They are a required part of a healthy diet and there is no reasonable substitute food available.

Eating whale is not important to human health. It's about as important as eating Eagles... Perhaps the Japanese should start hunting and eating Bald Eagles too? They probably taste a lot better than whale...[/quote]

Personally I don't care whether I can eat whale or not. I do like it OK but it's not like I ever get a craving for it or anything. All I'm saying is I don't know why people are so gay for whales. There's nothing special about them. Even if no type of whale were endangered and there were a way we could manage hunting them effectively, most people would still probably be against whaling.

My point with the pigs was not to compare them as a sourse of food but to shit on the whole "but whales are smart" argument. I don't give a fuck how smart they are. BTW, the waste produced industrial hog farming is far worse for the environment than whaling. Even if we did kill all the whales of it wouldn't really have a big impact since they are at the top of the food chain. Actually, if you believe Japanese propoganda we have to whale to preserve our fish stocks.

[FG Lurker]

You're jumping all over the place SJ...Your replies are starting to look more like trolls than a debate.

All I'm saying is I don't know why people are so gay for whales. There's nothing special about them. Even if no type of whale were endangered and there were a way we could manage hunting them effectively, most people would still probably be against whaling.

The intelligence or cuteness of a given animal does not carry weight with me.

In the last couple of hundred years we have figured out that if you keep hunting animals that don't reproduce quickly (whales, for example) you tend to eliminate them. Now that we know this it seems logical (to me anyway) that we shouldn't commercially hunt whales -- especially since we don't actually need to.

My point with the pigs was not to compare them as a sourse of food but to shit on the whole "but whales are smart" argument. I don't give a fuck how smart they are.

Considering I haven't brought up "whales are smart" as an argument against whaling it seems a bit odd to try deflecting it.

BTW, the waste produced industrial hog farming is far worse for the environment than whaling.

Yep. Any sort of industrial farming isn't very environmentally friendly. Does this in some way make whaling better or more acceptable though?

Even if we did kill all the whales of it wouldn't really have a big impact since they are at the top of the food chain.

I think you better study how food chains work -- and also what whales eat.

Actually, if you believe Japanese propoganda we have to whale to preserve our fish stocks.

I don't believe their propaganda any more than I believe yours.

Obviously humans need to eat, and for many people meat is a part of their diet. There is no reason humans need to eat whale though, no matter what the Japanese gov't might say. (For Japan it all comes down to LDP vote grabbing by trying to support towns that should really vanish.)

[Samurai_Jerk]

FGL, I'm not specifically arguing against you. I'm talking about shit I've heard from various people at various times.

I wish I had a scanner so I could post the English pro whaling pamphlet that was given to me at Kujira-ya in Shibuya. It's classic shit. It has a simple bar graph showing the amount of resources from the sea that cetaceans consume as compared with humans. Of course they eat a lot more than us (I wonder if that's true). The point was we have to thin out the population to preserve our sea resources. Fucking funny.

A buddy of mine was traveling in Scandanavia and met an American scientist there who was studying whale populations and had originally been anti whaling but after his own research decided that it was all a bunch of bullshit and that the Norweigans and the Japanese should be able to whale. He said that there were plenty of species out there in far more need of protection than whales but that nobody gave a fuck because they weren't cute. Personally, I believe what that guy says based on what I've read. And I still want to know why people are so gay for whales.

[Samurai_Jerk]

In the last couple of hundred years we have figured out that if you keep hunting animals that don't reproduce quickly (whales, for example) you tend to eliminate them.

BTW, I've been challening people on this for at least 6 years and you're only the second person that has ever brought that up (I was waiting for a logical point from someone). Everyone else argues on moral principals and a faith that whales are somehow different. And they get REALLY fucking mad that I don't agree. I know that what you say is true, but I still don't that it means that we can't allow any whaling at all.

[FG Lurker]

In the last couple of hundred years we have figured out that if you keep hunting animals that don't reproduce quickly (whales, for example) you tend to eliminate them.

BTW, I've been challening people on this for at least 6 years and you're only the second person that has ever brought that up (I was waiting for a logical point from someone). Everyone else argues on moral principals and a faith that whales are somehow different. And they get REALLY fucking mad that I don't agree. I know that what you say is true, but I still don't that it means that we can't allow any whaling at all.

People get emotional about odd shit... I guess it doesn't help that many are fed constant propaganda and never bother to actually think things through.

Although my posts above have been anti-whaling, in general I have no problem with the concept of killing something for food. It is just that after 10 years of living in Japan I can see already what will happen if Japan starts to whale commercially again.

Sure, there will be "quotas" (chuckle chuckle, nudge nudge)... And of course no Japanese whaling boat would ever go over their quota. I'm also sure that no officials in Japan could ever be bribed to look the other way when a boat with double it's allowed catch returns.

After this continues for awhile it will be impossible to stop. The gov't would not have the backbone to step in and things would just get worse.

Maybe I am too pessimistic.

[Taro Toporific]

STOP JAPANESE WHALING.
SAVE THE WHALE BONE-EATING LESBIAN SNOT-FLOWER!

'Zombie worms' found off Sweden
The worm lives off whale bones
BBC News, Tuesday, 18 October 2005, 23:22 GMT 00:22 UK
A new species of marine worm that lives off whale bones on the sea floor has been described by ..a UK-Swedish team ... in Proceedings of the Royal Society B...the new species has been named Osedax mucofloris, which literally means "bone-eating snot-flower".
"They look like flowers poking out of the whale bone...The part of the animal that is exposed to the seawater is covered in a ball of mucus, so they are quite snotty....
Scientists have recently begun to recognise the importance of "whale fall" to ocean-floor ecosystems. We're not sure what's happening with the reproductive biology of the Swedish worms yet. We've only got females; we haven't found any males. It's a bit weird."....
This has given rise to the theory that whale falls may act as "service stops", or hopping points, that allow some lifeforms to move around the ocean floor.....
What concerns researchers is that the commercial hunting which so devastated whaling populations would also have severely curtailed this activity by reducing the incidence of whale fall....more...

[emperor]

A Whale filmed in its natural habitat