ADVICE on ward tax

[hakuman]

And in the process, you're complaining about his complaining without doing anything else about it. Neat!

The irony kills me :P

But, the truth is, I will do something. I will offer a suggestion. It goes something along the lines of "shut the fuck up and quit whining". Should solve the problem!

[Mulboyne]

Remember there is never enough money in circulation to pay off all debt

You repeat this comment but it makes no sense. Money in circulation is a flow concept. Debt is a stock concept.

[Maths Dude]

For all the idiots who dont get it.

Money only comes into circulation through LOANS.

You borrow $100, and have to pay $107, thus you cannot pay back the loan. Therefore more money must be 'lent'. Even a child can understand that, you bunch of dickheads.

[Reddeville]

Spewman is just another bitter gaijin ranting about other foreigners. For the info of all here I pay my income tax with NO problem. I don`t hide income, I don`t have privates so don`t earn cash, and I always take every record of every yen earned to the tax office here each year.

No problem with that. I pay my local city hall unwillingly because they would have to be one of the most incompetent of their kind in the world let alone Japan. Their staff have abused the system, they openly talk about `Gaijin` when foreigners walk into the office - just what we need, open discrimination in our city hall. I`m not a customer - I`m a Gaijin. To think those scummy, classless `employees` are employed courtesy of my money.

I pay income tax, I pay ward tax, I pay their cheating health insurance/pension system. Cheating because the pension part has to go down as one of the most cynical scams ever. `You Gaijin can pay into pur pension system and we`ll loot you for as long as you stay here. When you go we`ll pay you a token amount.` `You Gaijin can also pay citizens` tax even though we make it very difficult for you to ever become one.`

We support these people and we get this kind of garbage thrown at us all the time. Don`t pay your city hall if it`s like mine - a corrupt, inaka cesspit full of people who feel they are on the lower rungs of Japanese society and have to try and sink their slippered feet into us. Where`s a good pair of heavy workboots when you need to visit city hall next?

Bottom line - follow the rules here on income tax, pay the city hall robbers their dues when you need to be on a visa here but when you are leaving, slip out leaving their ward tax/health insurance/pension unpaid.

Even if you pay up when you leave you`ll still have to probably pay for as long as up to a year at city hall before you exit the country. Last time I looked my country wasn`t robbing Japanese `Gaijin` by demanding money for when they weren`t going to be using the health system because - dur, they were going to be living in Japan.

Most city halls are disgraces. Don`t encourage them - especially when you are in your home country. Better, keep their letters if they have the absolute arse to send them to your home address when you`ve gone home, and let them keep wasting postage.

[hakuman]

Spewman is just another bitter gaijin ranting about other foreigners

Only the bitches. Only the bitches.
For that matter, you are just another bitter gaijin ranting about Japanese ppl. The difference is, Im happy here. You sure dont appear to be. Thats why I say, go home. If its so bad, go back to your own country where you can do something about it. Or else become a citizen of this country and do something about it. Cause right now you are just a whiney bitch.

`You Gaijin can pay into pur pension system and we`ll loot you for as long as you stay here. When you go we`ll pay you a token amount.`

Or, you could actually try staying here the 25 years and collecting on it. They dont say you cant do that. In this regard, they treat us better than they treat themselves. You think a Japanese person who emigrates to another country gets a 3 year reimbursement of the pension they have been paying into? Not a fuckin chance. (at least I dont think. I guess I could be wrong).

`You Gaijin can also pay citizens` tax even though we make it very difficult for you to ever become one.`

But you CAN become one. Just because its difficult doesnt mean its impossible. Why should they have to make it easy? Cause your country does? Thats a fuckin joke.

[FG Lurker]

For all the idiots who dont get it.

Money only comes into circulation through LOANS.

You borrow $100, and have to pay $107, thus you cannot pay back the loan. Therefore more money must be 'lent'. Even a child can understand that, you bunch of dickheads.

It all depends on what you do with the money you borrow. If you spend it on a house [Edit: or car/boat/other toy] (which will only ever cost you more money) then you lose and pay that interest.

If you use someone else's money (aka borrowed money) to make more money then you won't have problems paying it back and the interest is just another business expense. It's even tax deductible in a lot of cases!

[Reddeville]

There goes spewman again only reading what he wants to read in my post. I PAY MY DUES in Japan - I have never cheated the tax office in any way, I have paid everything on time. I have never had a reminder notice for anything. I have moved 4 times and each time made sure I paid my ward tax even though my new city halls probably couldnt have tracked me down.

That doesn`t mean I have to be blind to or happy about the parasitical system here that targets law abiding foreigners continually by all this talk in the media and printed material bordering on criminal libel about the foreign community in Japan.

The foreigner community in Japan supports a system that makes it normal to discriminate against foreigners in every aspect of life. Including in fake `pension payments` that prop up a greedy, incompetent system where our money will go to support the Japanese population but which is not appreciated by the same population by and large if their silence on this country`s xenophobia is anything to go by.

A population which has a constant them about foreigner criminality and other choice generalisations but which is relying on us for its old age pension payments. You are outside, you are outsiders - but of course you are Japanese when it comes to paying fake `citizens` taxes` and fantasy future pension payments. Bitching about my post by calling me a bitch (I`m a guy by the way) says a lot about spewman`s inability to come up with anything concrete to respond to my posts.

We can get our pension back after living here for twenty five years? Oh yeah. Great. We all know how simple it is to live long term in Japan or plan to live long term here when you look at the various ways the laws and multiple rules of various institutions here are designed to keep us from living here for that long. Spewman might like to learn a few facts about how Japanese people get privileges after living a few years in our home countries that we don`t and won`t get for living here longer.

That`s the reason for my first reply to the poster who talked about getting notices from their city hall in their home country. Laws exist and have existed for thousands of years but the fact that a law is in existence doesn`t make us morally obliged to follow it. If it`s an unjust law (and these come in many varieties) then disobey it if you feel that way. I feel that way about the thousands of dollars in money I have lost through the phantom called the city hall health insurance/pension scheme.

Only you can decide whether to follow a law or not. If you don`t want to pay for the military protest by withholding your taxes in your home country. There will be consequences. If you slip out of Japan without paying the fake charges to city hall you can give the finger to the parasites back there who want you to pay for them and their system but who don`t feel any real obligation to you.

For your information (and god knows you need information) - in my country Japanese people only pay health insurance for their study period or work period. They do not get fake pension payments mixed up with their health insurance, designed to support my country`s population deliberately at their expense. Get your head out of the toilet bowl, grow up and start using some arguments, and exit from the arses of these bureaucrats here who you love defending.

[hakuman]

We can get our pension back after living here for twenty five years? Oh yeah. Great. We all know how simple it is to live long term in Japan or plan to live long term here when you look at the various ways the laws and multiple rules of various institutions here are designed to keep us from living here for that long.

You mean systems like permanent residents visas? The fact is, they give us the opportunity to live here as long as we want (provided we meet visa qualifications and dont get in too much truouble). If you dont like the living conditions, as I said, go the fuck home. We really dont want your kind here. If you think it is harder for foreigners who have immigrated to Japan than it is for many foreingers who immigrate to most other countries, you are kidding yourself mate. I know a J-girl who had drinks thrown at her from moving cars twice in Australia. Ive never heard of that happening to any foreigners in Japan (although it very well might have).

Spewman might like to learn a few facts about how Japanese people get privileges after living a few years in our home countries that we don`t and won`t get for living here longer.

Your point being? As I said, its their country. Too fuckin bad if you dont like it. GO HOME.

Bitching about my post by calling me a bitch (I`m a guy by the way)

You may be a guy, but you're still a bitch!

The funny thing is, you make this point all righteously, you who has referred to me as spewman the last few posts. I dont really give a fuck, but its kinda like the pot calling the kettle black isnt it?

[cstaylor]

I know a J-girl who had drinks thrown at her from moving cars twice in Australia.

:: awaiting the appropriate quote from Charles ::

[Blah Pete]

I know a J-girl who had drinks thrown at her from moving cars twice in Australia.

I had that happen in my own country once. Damn rednecks...

[Greji]

You might as well face up to it. As the old saw says, the only two things required in life are to die and to pay taxes.

All the hedge hopping between Ward Offices and City Offices in the world is not going to help after they finish tweaking the new chip powered gaiji toroku. They will just have to call the new Gaijin Intel Center and locate you no matter under which bridge, or in which cardboard dambo you are sleeping. Big Brother will prevail

gb

[Reddeville]

Yep, the city hall WILL chase you up and if you have to do your visa renewal by yourself that might stop you getting it renewed - Immigration these days has access to info they didn`t have before. As long as you live in Japan you`ll have to pay.

But again - it`s up to you regardless of the bitchy comments made by spewman, who likes throwing the word `bitch` around (yep, you`d know all about that) and who hasn`t made one single intelligent point back when I made my position clear in my previous posts. You are legally obliged but it`s your choice and if you don`t get your visa renewed or have them come after you have to accep that.

If you leave Japan without paying and decide to never come back - that`s your choice and if your city hall is as incompetent and discriminatory as mine then power to you. Let them send their letters and waste their money.

Bare arsed cheek of the city halls to demand payments for the following year when you WON`T be in Japan if you decide to leave openly. Yes, it might be a Japanese custom to extort its foreigner population in this way when they have left the country but that doesn`t make it morally justifiable.

Only to Shintaro Ishihara`s little bitch on this forum who doesn`t realise the same Japanese bureaucrats whose arse his head is up despise him even while he is abasing himself.

[Carlito]

Haku or the vomit man or whatever you call yourself, go and spew on somebody else. Like those sneaking city hall officials who will give you less than 300,000 back city pension refund when you leave although you paid double, triple or more to them.

The law is the law but it`s not always ethical and can be unjust. The many ways Japanese officialdom discriminate against foreigners but are always there counting us as `Japanese` when they want us to pay to support their dying system (dying cause of xenophobia) is for me an example of unjust laws.

Foreigners support their system and don`t get their benefits. So again - if you leave Japan without paying ward tax or NHK or that pension system, power to you.

your post is ill-informed, and in my opinion, misguided.

tax is a civil obligation that must be met by all those who benefit from a country's infrastructure and have sufficient financial latitude. whilst private initiative will in most cases take care of improvements to facilitate the go-about of an entire interest group, the sheer scale of some of the needs call for the official support of a government that is not in it to make money (and can therefore absorb "unlimited" risk). the discussion, in my opinion, is not if we should or should not pay tax, it is if it is too high or too low, and how tax and government should gradually diminish over time.

having paid taxes in japan and a host of other european countries during my 5 years in the workforce, i feel like i get a huge bang for my tax bucks over here. i pay roughly 25% of my income and get modern infrastructure, polite service and efficient bureaucracy (how's that for an oxymoron). in germany, someone in my tax bracket has to pay 50% income tax and believe me - it isn't worth it and it isn't just, and i set-up shop in luxembourg to avoid it. in spain, i am asked to pay 40% - and i have to beg civil servants to do their job. japan's taxes are not onerous compared to some other places in the world. there is always better, but believe me, in most instances there is much, much worse.

additionally, i happened to have cashed out on my pension after working 3 years in japan making a slightly better than average income. i got back in the region of JPY 800K which i instantly proceeded to spend in the red light district in frankfurt, drinking crystal and squeezing breasts to the health of mr. koizumi. clearly they will not pay out the whole amount that i gave them - like no self-respecting financial institution would do, either. pension and other such financial agreements that promise delivery of moneys in the future depend on the fact that you are bound by contract as to when you can retire your investment, and when you start receiving benefits. this is 'cos they use your cash to invest, so that they can make mony to deliver on their promise bro. if you fuck with'em, they fuck with you - and besides you pay tax on lump sums.

NHK is ridiculous, though. should just be included in my normal tax bill.

[Carlito]

Lincoln paid for the civil war simply by creating money at 0% interest. There is a conspiracy that he was killed because the big bankers feared that he would shut them down and have the goverment print money at 0.1% interest (to pay for admin). Kennedy was also thinking about this system too. So he was also killed off. In Australia, one of our former prime ministers simply vanished (Harold Holt) after also mentioning such a system.

hell, that is sheer genius. let's go back to barter. that way we will eliminate poverty forever.

here's the plan - why don't we print cash, pay-off all the third-world debt with it, and then get rid of money altogether afterwards. the logic surely is fool-proof - if there is no money, there is no debt.

then, let's chase the jewish council of bankers that have secretly run the world for the past 15 centuries and beat them to a pulp. those bastards killed MLK, JFK and a bunch of other good three letter men.

going to have to buy a big shopping bag though - can you imagine, today i go shopping for some tofu & red wine with one of the chickens that i raise in my balcony chicken-farm in ebisu. tomorrow, i trade my girlfriend for a cuba-libre at the roppongi hills cafe (didn't have any chicken's handy, and she ain't that hot).

[Reddeville]

Carlito - don`t agree with you although I accept a general principle you`re putting forward.

I understand where you`re coming from and I know that you`re putting forward an argument. You read my posts and what they had to say in their entirey which is a welcome change from posters spewing words like `bitch` (how`s it up Ishihara`s arse spewman?) to supposedly `make their case`.

Our experiences are different because you got a pension refund which you don`t have any reason to be unhappy about. Obviously you weren`t made to join the pension scheme by your city hall. I don`t think you`d be so blase about this if you had experienced it.

My city hall wouldn`t let me have the health insurance through them without joining the pension scheme as well. That was some years back when the practice was not usual. I know plenty of other foreigners who`ve been around for as long as me and their city halls didn`t make them join the pension when they went to join the health insurance scheme.

The result is - you and other people who weren`t suckered into this (or forced in my case) get a good pension payout. For contributing 9 years plus (oh I forgot - if I wait just 16 years more in a country trying to make it harder for its foreign residents by labelling them `criminals` frequently in the media, and making it very hard to get citizenship) I can get it back.

But if I leave at the end of next year (10 years) I can only get 3 years` payments. At the most 240,000 yen. There`s a difference, isn`t there carlito? I aint surprised you are satisfied with the system because you got a fair sum from it. Tell me it`s fair to pay what I have and just get the joke sum of 240,000 yen.

Add the fact that my city hall is notoriously incompetent and employs people who run their mouths with the word `gaijin` all the time and treat tax paying professionals like me with contempt when I`ve done my best to fit in and pay all my dues on time etc, I don`t give a flying fuck if anybody leaves Japan without paying their city hall dues.

Note I wrote city hall - did I ever say I hadn`t paid all my national income tax or wanted to leave without paying that. Nope. My problem is very clearly focused on city hall.

[Buraku]

make excuses, move around, but don't pay up

you'll be a fool to let them do you up the ass for Ward Tax plus I imagine the invoice will be a bit too high to pay off

these assholes can bankrupt you if you let them

[Carlito]

Reddeville - our experiences with the system seem to be very different indeed. my pension deal was satisfactory, and i have never felt unjustly taxed here in japan. length of period, timing and possibly location are the key factors i suppose. for me the 3 years contribution evened out with the payout (penalties and further taxation discounted). even the naivety of the gaijin label has stopped rubbing me the wrong way - at the end of the day, it is me who gets the last laugh when i collect my paycheck, for getting the locals to get the job done (i extrapolate this to non-work related locals as well).

the one thing that i could never understand and take issue with from a social benefits perspective is that students and unemployed people have to make contributions to the system. i studied in japan and defaulted on my payments for two years worth. and while i was defaulting, i moved twice, and eventually took to simply ignoring the notices. they kept coming, i kept ignoring, in the end i never paid. i used to laugh when they told me they'd freeze my bank account and collect from there - it never happened and even if it did, it would have been of little consequence as the balance was always very close to zero.

[hakuman]

You read my posts and what they had to say in their entirey which is a welcome change from posters spewing words like `bitch` (how`s it up Ishihara`s arse spewman?) to supposedly `make their case`.

I wasnt making my case with it, I was just pointing out the obvious. You are a bitch! haha.

My case is pretty much what Carlito said, although he said it much nicer than I would have. But basically its this. Its not your country, so either become a citizen, or pay up, or shut up. Cause right now, you just come off as a bitch!

Signed, Spewman.

[Big Booger]

My tax just came on Friday. Oh how I love to pay taxes... I think you can complain, you can get angry, you can insult, you can do whatever you want, even evade them, but eventually it'll come back to haunt you and you more than likely will have to pay at some point... the longer you put it off the more it will cost... so it may just be good to pay up and shut up.

[fatslug]

hope al qaida aims for the tax department here

[Reddeville]

I`m not the only one on this thread who has a different point of view from spewman. By the way, because you have a lot of difficulty reading English (hope you`re not teaching here) carlito actually said he didn`t pay some ward taxes when he wasn`t a student.

Spewman - good to see you`ve completely bypassed the extreme stress of trying to answer posters who throw logic and reasons at you. It must be very stressful trying to come up with some vocabulary and putting together a real post. Never mind, your assertions (hope that word isn`t too difficult for you) and childish `Bitch! Bitch!` whining win you brownie (pun intended) points with those of a certain Japanese mindset in this country.

Well done, little man, well done!

[hakuman]

Thanks man, I appreciate the compliment!

bitch

hehehehehehhe

[Reddeville]

1 more Brownie point for the brownnose! Keep it comin, luv!

[hakuman]

aww, and I thought I would get 3 or 4 brownie points for that one. Maybe I would have - if you weren't a bitch.

[Reddeville]

How`s Yokohama? Still lonely and looking for friends there? Damn shame.
A hot tip - it helps to be able to use language to communicate but I know that`s a real mountain for you to climb. Keep trying!

[hakuman]

me no understand what you be say - bitch.

[Reddeville]

Yep, on this thread there are a lot of `bitches` that don`t have your point of view. Hard for you to accept, little man. Shame about that.

Don`t worry, there IS help for people who can`t communicate with others! Keep looking for those friends in Yokohama. Ganbatte ne!

[hakuman]

Ganbaru ze!

[hakuman]

...bitch

[hakuman]