A War Shrine, for a Japan Seeking a Not Guilty Verdict

[cstaylor]

A War Shrine, for a Japan Seeking a Not Guilty Verdict

"It was a war of self-defense," Yuko Tojo, the granddaughter of the wartime prime minister who was executed as a Class A war criminal and is enshrined in Yasukuni, said in a telephone interview. "China claims it is unforgivable that the head of state visits Yasukuni, where those responsible for causing trouble by conducting a war of aggression are enshrined. But if we agree with China, it would mean that we recognize it as a war of aggression. So we can't."

[kamome]

:roll:

She's a walking anachronism. Why is she even getting any publicity?

[cstaylor]

She's a good indicator of what those looney tunes are thinking.

[blackcat]

yeah right whore!

china/indonesia/australia/korea/thailand/the philipines/hong kong/singapore were all out to get you!!!

so your filthy fucking war criminal cunt grandpa had to kill/rape/steal from every non-jap.

JAPAN
DENIAL
SYNDROME

suck me off

[kakkoii]

All right, this is only a small deviation from the main topic, but what the shit. All of East Asia asks the Japanese today to apologize for something their ancestors did. They've been apologizing for 60 god damn years. It's time for east asia to quit acting like whiny bitches and get over it. Oh, no! The PM visits a graveyard that happens to have war criminals in it! Heaven forbid it, even though there are war heroes there as well! Oh, no! Japan's history books don't go into as much graphic detail about the Rape of Nanking as the Chinese want! Lets make an international incedent out of it.

I have an idea, how about when South Korea gets the fuck out of Takeshima, China backs off the Senkaku islands, and North Korea stops firing missiles in an effort to scare the Japanese, Japan will let some chinese and korean writers re-write their history books.

Ok, Japan raped Asia in more than one way. But that was over 60 years ago. Fast forward to today. Is Koizumi visiting Yasukuni more important than N. Korea building nuclear weapons? Are the history books of Japan more important than China's unilateral oppression of the lower class in China, (Lower class in a communist country? Yup) or South Korea's Kuangju (sp?) massacre just a decade ago? This is one honkey who thinks not.

But what this woman said is retarded. War of self-defense? Yeah ok. This woman must have a different definition of self-defense than the rest of the universe.

Jim out.

[altar]

I had started to answer Kakkoi's post... but the hell with it I'm not going to bother.

[devicenull]

I'm going to tokyo next month, and I am going to piss on this shrine... who wants pics?

[kakkoii]

altar, I'm interested in hearing what you have to say. Go for it, man.


devicenull, that's pretty weak.

[AssKissinger]

I'm going to tokyo next month, and I am going to piss on this shrine... who wants pics?

Post 'em up.

[kamome]

I'm going to tokyo next month, and I am going to piss on this shrine... who wants pics?

Post 'em up.

It ain't gonna' happen. I haven't been to Yasukuni, but I bet there are guards around that would catch anyone trying to shake one off in front of Tojo's shrine. But give it a shot, Device! It might get in the papers.

[devicenull]

I'm going to tokyo next month, and I am going to piss on this shrine... who wants pics?

Post 'em up.

It ain't gonna' happen. I haven't been to Yasukuni, but I bet there are guards around that would catch anyone trying to shake one off in front of Tojo's shrine. But give it a shot, Device! It might get in the papers.

How about a covert operation.. like shit in a bag, urine water balloon, etc.

[kakkoii]

hahah. go for the piss water balloon.

[blackcat]

kakkoii

WAY OFF
japan bitches endlessly about 40 or so people kidnapped from NK 30years ago.....they have forgotten(NO actually havent learnt) what granddaddy did.

UNIT 731, rape of manilla/singapore, millions murdered/homeless

IF this happened to them...!!!! fuck you would never heard the end of it....BTW Hiroshima/nagasaki may never have happened if the Kamikaze pilots hadnt killed 1000`s, and they had the BRAINS to surrender, they didnt because they thought the Yanks would act like they did when they took over a country.
In reality what they were scared of was their own cruelty thay thought everyone had.

talk to these pricks and YOU WILL SEE(as gollum puts it), most japs play the victim of WW11.

they dont care either, most dont even know where Manilla/Burma is let alone what went on there.

YOU may be able to brush ot off, but this IS NOT ANCIENT history!!

there are many alive today that remember.

Japan do not have the Honesty/Compassion/Consideration/Sympathy for anyone bit themselves.

[Charles]

YOU may be able to brush ot off, but this IS NOT ANCIENT history!!

I have sad news for you.

The world population median age is currently 26.4 years. That means half the people in the world were born after 1978, the Vietnam War is ancient history, it happened years before they were born.

Japan has the world's oldest median age of 41.3 years. That means half the population was born after 1964, only their grandparents remember WWII.

[cstaylor]

Charles, you know the old corrupt the thoughts of the young. How else can we explain generations of race hate in the Balkans?

[jingai]

Japan has the world's oldest median age of 41.3 years. That means half the population was born after 1964, only their grandparents remember WWII.

Wouldn't that mean that either their parents or grandparents would remember WWII?

[Tsuru]

Charles, you know the old corrupt the thoughts of the young. How else can we explain generations of race hate in the Balkans?

Righto.

It seems that to a large extent the beliefs of any individual are not defined by how old someone is or where he lives, but rather what the things are his peers believe in and what his government and media tell him.

If your mother, your government or FOX News tells you your Arab-looking neighbours could be terrorists, you buy it unless you are naturally inquisitive or have other interests. Now rewind to Japan/Germany 1937 and you'll see what I mean... most people still believe something because they were taught it or told to, not because they honestly chose to.

The difference of historical perspective between Germany and Japan is for the most part a result of government policy, not because the majority of people chose to look at the world that way. Interesting and a bit of a paradox, as theoratically a democratic government represents the views of the majority of the people.

But I guess most Japanese can't really help being indifferent about how the world looks at them or for that matter how they should see the world, but I'm all for the urine balloons on Yasukuni. Actually I was thinking long the lines of a balloon filled with pigblood to be hurled onto the little memorial for Unit 731 at Yasukuni.

[Blah Pete]

I have been to Yasukuni several times and have not seen any real security except in the museum. I once shot video for a documentary on Aug. 15, surrender day and they did have security and J-Police because of the sheer numbers of people.
There are usually some right wingers hanging around though and could be a few yak types who could make life unpleasant if they caught you pissing on their shrine.

I am surprised that a NK, CCP, or Japan Red Army type hasn't fire bombed the place over the years.

[Charles]

I have been to Yasukuni several times and have not seen any real security except in the museum.

You never see them unless they think you're a threat.



Yes, that's Yasukuni, Prince Mikasa is in the background.

[Blah Pete]

Yes, that's Yasukuni, Prince Mikasa is in the background.

Nice pic.
I am always worried about the security you don't see rather than the visible security.
I am sure there are cameras all over the place...

[kakkoii]

black cat I see your point. Japan comitted atrocities during the war, and no one can deny that. I know many Japanese (I don't live there, personally), and I understand what you mean about them being very insular, not thinking about what they've done to others but vice versa. But unfortunately every country is like that.

I am an American, and I don't remember reading anything in school about how our forefathers would give smallpox infested blankets to American Indians, knowing it would wipe them out. I read nothing in school about, oh God I can't think of the name of the massacre, but it was in "Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee" and was basically where these Indian men, women, children were annihilated. If I can find the name in the chapters in the book I'll post it.

My point is, no country in the world does not try to gloss over its own atrocities. But I totally see your point about what the Japanese did.

[Samurai_Jerk]

black cat I see your point. Japan comitted atrocities during the war, and no one can deny that. I know many Japanese (I don't live there, personally), and I understand what you mean about them being very insular, not thinking about what they've done to others but vice versa. But unfortunately every country is like that.

I am an American, and I don't remember reading anything in school about how our forefathers would give smallpox infested blankets to American Indians, knowing it would wipe them out. I read nothing in school about, oh God I can't think of the name of the massacre, but it was in "Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee" and was basically where these Indian men, women, children were annihilated. If I can find the name in the chapters in the book I'll post it.

My point is, no country in the world does not try to gloss over its own atrocities. But I totally see your point about what the Japanese did.

When and where did you go to school? Now most history classes in the US have taken the opposite extreme and focus on how "evil" American has been.

[kakkoii]

I went to Riverside-Brookfield High School, about 10 miles due west of Chicago. We didn't read anything on that in High School. We touched on like the Trail of Tears and a few other small things, but nothing that went into detail of the atrocities comitted.

[jingai]

When and where did you go to school? Now most history classes in the US have taken the opposite extreme and focus on how "evil" American has been.

In public elementary or secondary schools? I really doubt that- they're state-run. The crap they had us read in public school was the standard triumphal view of American history (at least until Junior year of High school) where the US spreads liberty and freedom around the world and overcomes little roadbumps like slavery and racism along the way. I'm not that old so it was in the '80s and early '90s.

Where are the apologies for Vietnam? Where is the aid for the non-American Agent Orange victims? Why not apologize for the civilian casualties of the atomic bombs?

At least there aren't museums glorifying this for the most part in the USA (possibly excepting the gutted Smithsonian Enola Gay exhibit).

[Samurai_Jerk]

When and where did you go to school? Now most history classes in the US have taken the opposite extreme and focus on how "evil" American has been.

In public elementary or secondary schools? I really doubt that- they're state-run. The crap they had us read in public school was the standard triumphal view of American history (at least until Junior year of High school) where the US spreads liberty and freedom around the world and overcomes little roadbumps like slavery and racism along the way. I'm not that old so it was in the '80s and early '90s.

Where are the apologies for Vietnam? Where is the aid for the non-American Agent Orange victims? Why not apologize for the civilian casualties of the atomic bombs?

At least there aren't museums glorifying this for the most part in the USA (possibly excepting the gutted Smithsonian Enola Gay exhibit).

I guess it was the pinko unionized teachers I had in NYC.

[jingai]

And I had an English "teacher" who tried to convince us that Darwinism was just another theory and went on about Christianity, but I don't that that's representative of US education or textbooks. I believe the texts we used were pretty standard and in many cases quite old.

[kakkoii]

ok this is way off subject, but does anyone else in the universe consider LBJ to be a giant douche? I mean, come on. There was absolutely no evidence for the Gulf of Tonkin scheme, and we went into a war that was pointless. Many southern vietnamese wanted to go communist and stay unified. What did LBJ want, a north vietnam south vietnam like we "accomplished" in Korea? What an incredibly stupid war.

[jingai]

My Aunt blamed LBJ for all the problems in America. But she's nuts.

I think you should make a shrine to the war dead in the Vietnam war but don't include LBJ or Kennedy or McNamara (not dead, but...).

[blackcat]

kakkoii

thanks for you input I agree with in most ways and I would make the MAIN point that: you say you are an American and you CAN criticize your history (way beyond 60 years too!)

That is a credit to you and others like jingai.

The big difference is talk to japanese and these people are VERY RARE.
VERY RARE INDEED. most defend japan in every way no matter how little information they have, its just emotion with them.

this is common to an extent everywhere but in Japan DENIAL IS EXTREME
the youth just beleive it all and question nothing.

I have read Uni std. thesis`on history and WW2 its ALL because of the oil embargo, defensive, non aggressive etc. BS

most of my stds dont even know where Cities/Countries are that Japan commit some of the wost acts in the 20th century.

but they`ll tell you Hitler was crazy and watch "the Pianist" etc in tears.

they make me sick! I dont admire people that can`t see both the positive and negative sides to themselves, and as a society its all the more important because its made up of so many people...surely they respect/trust/admire EVERY japanese person.

The way people act is FAR more important than where we were born.

Japanese dont see this as they are quite dumb due to conformist rote, private(read customer) learing, a 100% bias media and a police agency/government littered with WW2 throwback racists. (ishihara. etc)

japanese see themself as unique and wonderful. they view all others with suspision. they can be very welcoming and friendly though, and of course there are good/bad everywhere.

the big problem is the education and media.